Stop the Merc/Commando Insanity!

[foxmob]

Actually, except for healers (and I guess sorcs) I think we'll still have to use it that way. Snipers are immune to interrupts when in cover, Ravage is uninterruptable, and Force Lightning from Assassins is only being used by the tank spec ones to make it uninterruptable.

 

Though hey I guess we can now interrupt each other! Oh goodie!

 

very true. the number of immunities to ints in this game is kinda ridiculous. why on earth would MS/ravage need to be uninterrupbable. it's the only actual attack they do that isn't an instant (choke is a stun/int that does a l'il dmg; don't be a *bleep*). meanwhile, the only classes that NEED some sort of immunity cuz all they do is casts don't have it (sorcs/sages, mercs/commandos). oye. back asswards.

Edited September 14, 2012 by foxmob

[ArchangelLBC]

Well look on the bright side. if you roll a pyro merc, you no longer will feel like you picked the wrong AC to do so. or at least not by as much,

 

Not really. Not as long as PT can reset Railshot with instant abilities (one of which autoprocs the DoT from CGC) and Merc/Commando rely on channeled casted abilities.

 

Both got the nerf to the snare, and they always had more utility than we did.

[Technohic]

Not really. Not as long as PT can reset Railshot with instant abilities (one of which autoprocs the DoT from CGC) and Merc/Commando rely on channeled casted abilities.

 

Both got the nerf to the snare, and they always had more utility than we did.

 

But don't PTs have to do it within 10m now?

[RazielHex]

Do you mean the root...the one the melee also just placed on you, and now they are Ravaging you while you enjoy your interupt that cant stop it....Hmmm Bet you'll miss that little KB then.

 

Root is not a stun...I keep see'ing this...SW AC's both have Snares and roots built into their intro cycle....they will have you rooted automatically and be one global ahead wrecking your face by the time you root them...On my Jugg lets say your full WH...I will have 10k off your health before you ever even get the KB off...your already rooted and snared...and you cant DMG me because after the intial 2 secs you will break the remaining 2 secs of the root.

 

Enjoy your chronic death in PvP.

 

Pfft. I got jet blast. I got electro-dart, I got dragon punch, I got interrupt, I got cooldown-insta-mez. Mercs got the tools, a lot of 'em are just inflexible and lazy.

 

The fact of the matter is that I try not to be seen. If I'm not seen, I'm not focused on; if I am focused on, I try to get away. I'm not gonna stand there and take whiffle bats to my head. I'm not the front-line fighter. I leave that to the 'techs and the Sith to jump in first.

[ArchangelLBC]

But don't PTs have to do it within 10m now?

 

They always had to be within 10m to do it. Ion Pulse/Flame Burst (is that the name?) is a 10m skill and Stock Strike is a 4m skill. That has never stopped them from being better. (But DOES explain why they grapple you after the opener if they can).

 

Pfft. I got jet blast. I got electro-dart, I got dragon punch, I got interrupt, I got cooldown-insta-mez. Mercs got the tools, a lot of 'em are just inflexible and lazy.

 

The fact of the matter is that I try not to be seen. If I'm not seen, I'm not focused on; if I am focused on, I try to get away. I'm not gonna stand there and take whiffle bats to my head. I'm not the front-line fighter. I leave that to the 'techs and the Sith to jump in first.

 

I'm assuming Jet Blast is your version of Concussion Charge? 20-25s cooldown, and if you're saving it to interrupt Ravage you can't use it to push them away. Probably a better option though to make them waste pretty much all of gore too since I'm pretty sure the Arsenal/Gunnery buffed version pushes them further than 10m. Dragon Punch I'm going to assume is stockstrike, which will now root people right next to you who you would prefer not be right next to you, so you've effectively lost a tool which is very sad and why people are complaining. You don't have an interrupt yet, but once you get one you should know that Ravage/Master Strike is uninterruptable, as is everything a sniper does from cover, so that's not going to help you. Cooldown insta-mez requires one of our cooldowns and removes flexibility elsewhere ( I like using it for Plasma-nade personally, but can see it's use to get off an instant grav round too). It's a 2min cooldown so this isn't nearly the great tactical flexibility that Stockstrike knockback had, and of course it's also effected by resolve (and I think it adds even more than stockstrike). Electro Dart (Cryo Grenade for me) I'm going to use to anticipate or at least mitigate UR/GbtF, and if it's down I'd save the instant mez for this as well (since they can Ravage every 27 seconds but I can only stun them every minute or so).

 

I know you think you have the tools. You really don't. Other people have the tools. Snipers have tools coming out of their butts which is the real reason they're always squatting behind cover.

 

As for trying to remain unseen, and trying to run away when you ARE seen. Yes that is a great strategy. But not being seen relies quite a lot on the other people being dumb, and my rule in PVP is never trust your pugs, and always assume theirs are competent. You standing also presents a larger profile so you're definitely more noticeable than those squatting snipers. If you ARE seen, you sadly don't have the tools to effectively create distance. A base line root. A root attached to concussion charge, some sort of escape mechanic; any one of those would help actually get away. Rest assured that if someone competent is on you and they want to stay on you, they absolutely will

[RazielHex]

I know you think you have the tools. You really don't. Other people have the tools. Snipers have tools coming out of their butts which is the real reason they're always squatting behind cover.

 

Mercs have every type of CC that everyone else has besides a gap closer. I mean, a lot of them are just badly played, or people complain about getting themselves into bad situations like it's someone else's fault. I've literally never had a problem playing my mercenary or hanging with the big boys in the warzones.

[ArchangelLBC]

Mercs have every type of CC that everyone else has besides a gap closer. I mean, a lot of them are just badly played, or people complain about getting themselves into bad situations like it's someone else's fault. I've literally never had a problem playing my mercenary or hanging with the big boys in the warzones.

 

That depends on what you define as "type of CC". We have two ranged snares, both of which must be specced for, and you can't effectively take both. One is a self rooting snare, the other is RNG dependent. Our only baseline snare is tied to an ability that generates resolve, and requires them to be close to us to apply severely limiting its usefulness, not to mention its long cooldown vs. its duration (4s of snare on a 20-30s cooldown depending on spec and set bonuses vs 6 seconds on a 15 second cooldown for shadows as an example). We also have absolutely no root to speak of. Roots and snares are some of the most effective forms of CC, especially for countering melee, and our access to either type is absolutely dreadful. In addition our mez has a very long cast time and is single target which is just fine for PVE but is almost useless in PVP without TO, which makes it have an effective cooldown of 2 minutes which is horrible.

 

If you've literally never had a problem hanging with the big boys then you either play in a very very small pond (not a lot of skilled opponents who know how easy you are to shut down), always run with an amazing team of players who always makes sure to protect you, or are yourself an amazing player whose skill would be much better utilized on a class with all the tools to actually do your job effectively. I suggest sniper if you like the ranged casting job. They seriously do it so much better than we do that it's embarrassing.

 

You can spout all you want about how other mercs/commandos are just bad and how really we're perfectly fine, but this is mostly delusion talking I think. Anything we can do someone else does much much better.

Edited September 14, 2012 by ArchangelLBC

[Soljin]

Pfft. I got jet blast. I got electro-dart, I got dragon punch, I got interrupt, I got cooldown-insta-mez. Mercs got the tools, a lot of 'em are just inflexible and lazy.

 

The fact of the matter is that I try not to be seen. If I'm not seen, I'm not focused on; if I am focused on, I try to get away. I'm not gonna stand there and take whiffle bats to my head. I'm not the front-line fighter. I leave that to the 'techs and the Sith to jump in first.

 

What the...I dont...uhhh wow!

 

Man please tell me your on "the Bastion" Server....Please! and Whats your Mercs name?

 

Im pretty sure your not...The Bastion has some pretty hard hitting players.

 

Im a decent Merc, and more importantly I understand the classes design and that it was intended to be a Ranged style combat by design.

 

Now that said...Merc is now being forced into melee which traditionally for a ranged class means death, and Merc/COmmando is no different....The AC does not have the defensive abilities (By design) to withstand it. Now you only have ONE CC that can be cast from Range.....Count it...ONE.

 

We do have enough CC..its the nature of our CC that is the problem. We need the root to be Range 30m, We need our snare to be on demand...just like every other AC....I could care less about Elec. Dart...I can live with that being Nerfed...Although it doesnt make sense.

 

BTW...you come off with very little actual info...Im pretty sure all Mercs know which abilities we have...and that getting focused is bad...Grats on figuring out the basics.

[Soljin]

That depends on what you define as "type of CC". We have two ranged snares, both of which must be specced for, and you can't effectively take both. One is a self rooting snare, the other is RNG dependent. Our only baseline snare is tied to an ability that generates resolve, and requires them to be close to us to apply severely limiting its usefulness, not to mention its long cooldown vs. its duration (4s of snare on a 20-30s cooldown depending on spec and set bonuses vs 6 seconds on a 15 second cooldown for shadows as an example). We also have absolutely no root to speak of. Roots and snares are some of the most effective forms of CC, especially for countering melee, and our access to either type is absolutely dreadful. In addition our mez has a very long cast time and is single target which is just fine for PVE but is almost useless in PVP without TO, which makes it have an effective cooldown of 2 minutes which is horrible.

 

If you've literally never had a problem hanging with the big boys then you either play in a very very small pond (not a lot of skilled opponents who know how easy you are to shut down), always run with an amazing team of players who always makes sure to protect you, or are yourself an amazing player whose skill would be much better utilized on a class with all the tools to actually do your job effectively. I suggest sniper if you like the ranged casting job. They seriously do it so much better than we do that it's embarrassing.

 

You can spout all you want about how other mercs/commandos are just bad and how really we're perfectly fine, but this is mostly delusion talking I think. Anything we can do someone else does much much better.

 

Keep up the fight man...We are on different sides of the fence but very much on the same page.

[foxmob]

Mercs have every type of CC that everyone else has besides a gap closer. I mean, a lot of them are just badly played, or people complain about getting themselves into bad situations like it's someone else's fault. I've literally never had a problem playing my mercenary or hanging with the big boys in the warzones.

 

lolwut? they have a soft stun that goes on cd if it's interrupted and a long hard stun.

 

they have a punt that doesn't root (the other ranged classes have punts that root).

 

they have no escapes. but hey, they can spec into a glorified (bad) interrupt (knockback) if they want to play the least effective dps tree in their AC.

 

they do not have an out of combat mezz.

 

they do not have a second stun.

 

they do not have an aoe stun (soft or hard) of an duration.

 

in what world do they have "every type of cc that everyone else has"?

 

and why on earth would any ranged dps have a gap closer? ranged class have punts not closers. and yes, they do have that.

[RazielHex]

lolwut? they have a soft stun that goes on cd if it's interrupted and a long hard stun.

 

What the hell is a "soft stun"?

[Soljin]

What the hell is a "soft stun"?

 

This term is used for a stun ability that breaks on damage.

 

Retort: What the heck is a "Dragon Punch"?

Edited September 15, 2012 by Soljin

[TheNegotiator]

I still find well-geared arsenal mercs to be a great threat in war zones. Tracer spamming is just devastating to opposing players if they can't stop it. When a team with 2 mercs has a tactical advantage (like winning the south computer in Novare) and are good at focusing on single players...the match is all but won. Having long-ranged high dps attacks that cannot be mitigated is a powerful advantage.

[RazielHex]

This term is used for a stun ability that breaks on damage.

 

That's a mezz

 

Retort: What the heck is a "Dragon Punch"?

 

Forward, Down, Down-forward + Punch, then shouting Shoryuken.

[LeonHawkeye]

That depends on what you define as "type of CC". We have two ranged snares, both of which must be specced for, and you can't effectively take both. One is a self rooting snare, the other is RNG dependent. Our only baseline snare is tied to an ability that generates resolve, and requires them to be close to us to apply severely limiting its usefulness, not to mention its long cooldown vs. its duration (4s of snare on a 20-30s cooldown depending on spec and set bonuses vs 6 seconds on a 15 second cooldown for shadows as an example). We also have absolutely no root to speak of. Roots and snares are some of the most effective forms of CC, especially for countering melee, and our access to either type is absolutely dreadful. In addition our mez has a very long cast time and is single target which is just fine for PVE but is almost useless in PVP without TO, which makes it have an effective cooldown of 2 minutes which is horrible.

 

If you've literally never had a problem hanging with the big boys then you either play in a very very small pond (not a lot of skilled opponents who know how easy you are to shut down), always run with an amazing team of players who always makes sure to protect you, or are yourself an amazing player whose skill would be much better utilized on a class with all the tools to actually do your job effectively. I suggest sniper if you like the ranged casting job. They seriously do it so much better than we do that it's embarrassing.

 

You can spout all you want about how other mercs/commandos are just bad and how really we're perfectly fine, but this is mostly delusion talking I think. Anything we can do someone else does much much better.

 

Well said, finely put, perfectly and absolutely spot on. With the Sweltering Heat nerf to 30%, Assault will be even more incredibly awkward and impossible to kite with. Gunnery remains dysfunctional and the changed proposed won't make it much better.

[Baarabas]

That depends on what you define as "type of CC". We have two ranged snares, both of which must be specced for, and you can't effectively take both. One is a self rooting snare, the other is RNG dependent. Our only baseline snare is tied to an ability that generates resolve, and requires them to be close to us to apply severely limiting its usefulness, not to mention its long cooldown vs. its duration (4s of snare on a 20-30s cooldown depending on spec and set bonuses vs 6 seconds on a 15 second cooldown for shadows as an example). We also have absolutely no root to speak of. Roots and snares are some of the most effective forms of CC, especially for countering melee, and our access to either type is absolutely dreadful. In addition our mez has a very long cast time and is single target which is just fine for PVE but is almost useless in PVP without TO, which makes it have an effective cooldown of 2 minutes which is horrible.

 

If you've literally never had a problem hanging with the big boys then you either play in a very very small pond (not a lot of skilled opponents who know how easy you are to shut down), always run with an amazing team of players who always makes sure to protect you, or are yourself an amazing player whose skill would be much better utilized on a class with all the tools to actually do your job effectively. I suggest sniper if you like the ranged casting job. They seriously do it so much better than we do that it's embarrassing.

 

You can spout all you want about how other mercs/commandos are just bad and how really we're perfectly fine, but this is mostly delusion talking I think. Anything we can do someone else does much much better.

 

All true. I am so blown away that we all can see this and BW does not. Dont they play their own game?

[cashogy]

All true. I am so blown away that we all can see this and BW does not. Dont they play their own game?

 

short answer: no

[ArchangelLBC]

I still find well-geared arsenal mercs to be a great threat in war zones. Tracer spamming is just devastating to opposing players if they can't stop it. When a team with 2 mercs has a tactical advantage (like winning the south computer in Novare) and are good at focusing on single players...the match is all but won. Having long-ranged high dps attacks that cannot be mitigated is a powerful advantage.

 

Why wouldn't they be able to stop it though? I mean is your team dedicating itself to letting them free cast? Seems like it would be easier to protect snipers. And the times when you have a tactical disadvantage the mercs/commandos become more of a liability in my opinion. They move slow, absolutely can never lead a charge ever, can't be left behind to guard really since they're one of the absolute worst 1v1 classes (if not THE worst), and can't be sent as a distraction.

[ArchangelLBC]

Keep up the fight man...We are on different sides of the fence but very much on the same page.

 

Right back at ya man.

[Omicrie]

When you think about 1.1 when the merc actually worked and the game now (where alot of other clases work properly-ish), there worlds apart. The merc has been out-of-commission and left virtually unchanged in utility / survivability since its nerf; and now that they have "seemingly" just finally fixed issues with the other classes; they don't want to reintroduce it since its role has never really been balanced out in the game in the first place.

 

my guess is you need to make more forums directed towards getting them "clarifying" your Class role better, so that you guys can at least complain that the current play-style doesn't match or fulfil the group needs that the dev originally said the class would fill.

 

But that's just my opinion.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Omicrie

[foxmob]

That's a mezz.

 

indeed. however, everyday use of the term tends to associate it with out of combat CC (so basically the stealthy stuff) whereas soft stun is a kind of mezz that one can do in combat (ala awe).

[Baarabas]

Why wouldn't they be able to stop it though? I mean is your team dedicating itself to letting them free cast? Seems like it would be easier to protect snipers. And the times when you have a tactical disadvantage the mercs/commandos become more of a liability in my opinion. They move slow, absolutely can never lead a charge ever, can't be left behind to guard really since they're one of the absolute worst 1v1 classes (if not THE worst), and can't be sent as a distraction.

 

To caveat on that, even as a Merc I Target other Mercs first to get them out of the fight. Mercs bring the least to the table. In PvE Pyro Mercs bring almost nothing.

[ArchangelLBC]

When you think about 1.1 when the merc actually worked and the game now (where alot of other clases work properly-ish), there worlds apart. The merc has been out-of-commission and left virtually unchanged in utility / survivability since its nerf; and now that they have "seemingly" just finally fixed issues with the other classes; they don't want to reintroduce it since its role has never really been balanced out in the game in the first place.

 

my guess is you need to make more forums directed towards getting them "clarifying" your Class role better, so that you guys can at least complain that the current play-style doesn't match or fulfil the group needs that the dev originally said the class would fill.

 

But that's just my opinion.

 

 

The thing is, those threads have been made. On this forum, on the commando forums and on the merc forums. The devs never respond to them, so they die out because otherwise it's everyone saying what everyone else already knows. The only time I've seen the devs respond was right after 1.2 when people were upset about the change to grav round (which seemed to be much more than a 10% nerf) and when deadly cannon (well the merc mirror) was bugged and people wanted it fixed. The burst that the buffed Demo Round had was really nice right after 1.2 but then they fixed it and it took them till 1.3 to fix our damage in other ways (since they refused to just leave DR alone).

 

Otherwise absolutely nothing which is what leads so many of us to assume they just don't care and aren't listening. You could argue that they're reading and listening but just not responding but then you get the changes they propose in 1.4 and realize that that just isn't true so we can't even give them the benefit of the doubt anymore.

[foxmob]

tbh, idc at this point. I like troopers. I always wanted an army of them since back in the day when they were lined up along the hallway as vader boarded leia's ship. I have two now: vg and commando. I've accepted the fact that if I want to dps, I can use the vg. if i want to heal, I can use the commando. the only problem is I don't have a trooper for both dps roles (close range, ranged). oh well. ranged dps is pretty boring in pvp for all classes imo.

 

commandos aren't serious pvp deeps. accepted. bw isn't going to fix it. I've moved on. it seems pretty clear that that's the way it's gotta be. or just keep feeling angry every time you queue trying to will a prius to move like a ferarri.

Edited September 15, 2012 by foxmob

[TheNegotiator]

Why wouldn't they be able to stop it though? I mean is your team dedicating itself to letting them free cast? Seems like it would be easier to protect snipers. And the times when you have a tactical disadvantage the mercs/commandos become more of a liability in my opinion. They move slow, absolutely can never lead a charge ever, can't be left behind to guard really since they're one of the absolute worst 1v1 classes (if not THE worst), and can't be sent as a distraction.

 

Most will say it's easy to deal with Mercs, but my Vanguard has found the opposite to be true. It's harder to interrupt tracers than what everybody claims. You have to deal with a 1.5 second or so channel time, battle lag, decoy channeling, and I have to be within 4 meters of my target to do it...all this adds up to a dangerous job of eating 3k tracers in the face, I won't even mention the knock back which if he has available usually seals my fate. Lately I've just been spec'ing assault to deal with them better, but either way if I try to 1 vs 1 them it's usually a losing proposition.