1.4 And Survivability in PVP

[Krozis]

I waited to react on this because I wanted to some warzone experimenting at the 50 level. Both on my own and in Guild Pre-mades.

 

I posted a thread (Frusrtations with Mercenary) where I show why I've always believed our issue was survivability (PVP) and too much reliance on interruptable tracer missile in the Arsenal tree.

 

Now that I've re-specced full Arsenal and experimented with what an extra little heal would give me in a warzone, it's really quite worthless. I even specc'd to receive bonus healing from it, and really tried to see how different my encounters would have been if it would have been an instant heal. (conditional on 5 stacks of TM)

 

So in reality, with this 'BUFF' we have a way to get 2 instant heals with a bit of work. But I already can instantly concussion someone/heal myself so this to me is a really a step sideways, not up in survivability.

 

That is to say: This adds NO survivability to me in real life Warzone experiences. It simply gives me a different option to explore while getting dotted, smashed, or ravaged to death.

 

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Aresnal: My problem with it: The build is too easy to break apart with a simple interrupt. Sure there are other abilities BUT Arsenal as a tree is FAR too dependent on Tracer missile to function as a valid dps build.

 

Bioware's answer? Make Arsenal more dependent on Tracer Missile. What? Srsly? I do not even....

 

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Rocket Punch: Previously I joked that the talented rocket punch is a knock back that isn't a knock back. (The result will still leave you in range of most melee. The only use for this is clever positioning with a vertical advantage (IE Huttball ramps, etc). That's it.

 

Bioware's answer? Remove the knockback and add a root.

 

So let me get this right. I spend most of my time with warriors being rooted, and cleansing, and being re-rooted (while dying). And your answer is you want me to root them back. So we can stand 3-4 meters apart from each other, rooted, while I get clocked?

 

On most warzone maps, the talented rocket punch was a (temporary) respite of approximately one second before getting re-engaged. Now it won't even do that. How about a 2 second root after the kb?

 

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My Conclusion:

 

For some reason your selling a nerf as a buff (same with overload). I'm not sure why, either your confused as to what's really wrong, or you want to keep melee at the top of the food chain as long as possible. IE: you've given the stealth classes an easier time to re-stealth. (thanks for that by the way..... My extremely potent Shadow will be even better.)

 

The Arsenal spec REALLY needed an interrupt protect (new built in Polarity Shift?), and/or survivability, but instead you handcuffed us even more to the fundamentally flawed ideal of spamming more tracer missile, and punishing us for not following this ideal. WHY?

 

The heal is inconsequential. It will make ZERO difference to me. I already have that mechanic in place and Time TO Death is far too short for these sideways fixes to have any validity in competitive PVP.

 

Why couldn't you have taken a page out of the Sniper book? Un-leapable, uninterruptable, defensive buffs... I would have taken any of these.

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Meanwhile: Pyrotech got nothing?

 

Do you (Bioware) feel that Mercenary's Pyrotech is on par with Powertech's?

 

The difference between using two channeled abilities to attempt to proc a rail shot, is miles away from the powertech's two insta-cast abilties. And Powershot (ugh) fix this please. This is a cool looking animation that is just too lethargic for a channeled ability. I only use it when absolutely forced to.

 

Too be honest I have to give you kudos for the interrupt. It's long overdo and much appreciated.

 

That being said I waited (as many have) with great anticipation that 1.4 would be the savior of this class in PVP, but it's not looking that way.

 

I'm very disappointed and probably going to have to drop my Merc again for PVP for my own sanity. But my operative and shadow thank you very much (both 50 as well).

[Macroecon]

They just don't get it. The only solution is to offer all Mercs a free, one-time ability to reclassify as a PT. Those that want to stay as a healer can remain Mercs.

 

BW offered an ability to customers to transfer servers so they wouldn't be locked out of certain endgame content (ranked wz in particular). BW should do the same for Merc dps. Because right now for all intents and purposes, Merc dps is not viable for ranked wz.

[Aerro]

Lastnight in Campaign gear and PvE spec: http://i.imgur.com/rXwZF.jpg

 

We're not completely broken if everyone ignores us!

[yoomazir]

Lastnight in Campaign gear and PvE spec: http://i.imgur.com/rXwZF.jpg

 

We're not completely broken if everyone ignores us!

 

Ignore being the keyword here

Edited September 7, 2012 by yoomazir

[Sinsavz]

Lastnight in Campaign gear and PvE spec: http://i.imgur.com/rXwZF.jpg

 

We're not completely broken if everyone ignores us!

 

Hold the phone guys.

 

Some guy just did 360k damage.

 

All is well in the world.

[Krozis]

I have wz's in the last week with Arsenal with a lot more damage than that. I too was the fortunate recipient of an incompetent opposing team that completely ignored me in Novare.

 

What does this prove? Unaware players are allergic to missiles? I'm not sure what your point is by posting that. It's an aberration at best.

 

Left completely ignored in a warzone, every DPS class in the game is fine. Maybe that's your point? So you're asking for a buff in 1.4 that makes the entire opposing team unable to target you? Not sure if we'll get that but I guess it doesn't hurt to ask.

[Aerro]

Hold the phone guys.

 

Some guy just did 360k damage.

 

All is well in the world.

 

You missed the part where I put PvE gear and spec.

[digimass]

I did 360k in a wz last nite. I was wearing my pve campaign gear and weapons with a couple bm peices mixed in ( 2 bm relics, chest, gloves, and helmet) for about 400 expertise points.

[Macroecon]

Big deal. In my third wz ever as a Marauder I did 520k damage and 80k heals in basically full recruit gear. And that in a Voidstar match I entered midway through round 1. And I assure you - I was being attacking in that match.

[Omophorus]

Actually, I'm happy that they changed the knockback to a root on Rocket Punch.

 

I'd like the both, but it'd be nice having some method of battlefield control that doesn't fill resolve.

 

A snare would be nicer, but I'll take what I can get.

 

Rocket Punch never knocked back far enough to justify filling resolve except as an emergency interrupt, and now we'll have an interrupt to actually do that the right way.

 

So on top of having a real interrupt, we'll have the option to root & run, though it would definitely be more useful were it not tied to a melee-range attack.

[Molltor]

As a PvP only Pyro Merc I find the 1.4 notes to be baffling. How can a spec get completely ignored? Is it figured to be perfectly balanced? If so why isn't Pyro PT being "rebalanced", or other specs for that matter.

 

Sure we do very good damage, but as already mentioned and has been known forever, our survivability is where our problem lies. Personally, I was hoping for our slow to be a guaranteed one, matching PT's, instead of having to rely on RNG to allow us to kite more effectively. Or maybe even a root effect to unload or Jet Boost. Snipers can root, slow and knockback root, at least 1 of those would've made a Merc's life more bearable.

 

The interupt is nice, but we're still the b4stard child of Bounty Hunter AC choice.

[Henu]

Lastnight in Campaign gear and PvE spec: http://i.imgur.com/rXwZF.jpg

 

We're not completely broken if everyone ignores us!

 

Meh first your set up looks painful even to look at, and 360k isnt bad for that map with no deaths.

Now can i say get rid of Fusion missle, flame unit, onbaord AOE, these are useless in PVP.

 

i might start a thread up posting biggest PVP scores since 1.3

[Krozis]

First off I just have to get this out of the way so people actually don't follow the above advice:

 

Henu, I've been watching you tell people to learn to play and then you say something like that?

 

Fusion missile useless in PVP? You couldn't be more flat out wrong about that one. Period.

 

And if by 'onboard AOE' you mean sweeping blasters also being useless... I think you should really consider stopping yourself from calling people out on the forum for not understanding their class. Just consider it.

 

Moving on....

 

Actually, I'm happy that they changed the knockback to a root on Rocket Punch.

 

I'd like the both, but it'd be nice having some method of battlefield control that doesn't fill resolve.

 

A snare would be nicer, but I'll take what I can get.

 

So on top of having a real interrupt, we'll have the option to root & run, though it would definitely be more useful were it not tied to a melee-range attack.

 

But many classes have attacks that are actually interrupts. Why can't we keep Rocket Punch the way it is and add a snare?

 

The Rocket Punch being sold to us as a 'buff' is a sideways step at best. I'll have to say in Huttball where the vertical axis can be a real advantage I REALLY need that little kickback. But yea, in most prairie flat warzones, the knockback leaves you in melee range.

 

What I don't like is I spend a lot of time being rooted, cleansing a root, or just being CC'd in place. The idea of rooting a Warrior/JK or melee as a response to being in melee range in the first place is asinine to me. I hate this change, it's just too little, and still too easy for a rooted melee type to smoke us in melee range.

 

I would tell you how I'd handle it with a Jugg, Marauder, Operative, or Assassin. But I'm sure you can think of where I'm going with this. (Again I can't help but think of how the Snipers have the greatest blend of roots and KB's here.)

 

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The survivability here still stinks. No one is denying that if someone leaves a merc in a corner doing his thing, he's going to wreck face. This is true of every class in the game: Ignore it, and you will pay the price.

 

I'm still looking for answers on why we lost survivability back when BW was trying to figure out why Heatseeker was hitting so hard.

 

Right now on the PVP forum is a Marauder guide by a guy on my server. I face him a lot, and a lot of guys like him. I would think most of us are getting really frustrated with the absolute futility we have against almost every class in 1v1 situation.

 

Don't get me wrong if Marauder/Assassin/Operative/etc comes at me half geared, and not completely competent, I will rip his head off. I've got a lot of 'emergency rotations'. BUT if the guy is as geared as me (or better) and -knows- his class, I have zero chance without outside help in 100% of these situations. It gets REALLY hard to queue up knowing this fact.

 

I don't think a semi-free, small heal is going to change the fact I am already DOING this (The mechanic exists and the new mechanic is too piddly and a waste of time!) in these situations and it's not enough. When a good jugg is on you, you won't get squat off. When a good marauder is on you can handle this in one of two ways: Face tank/dps race (good luck with that) , or defensive mode (cleanse, insta-concussion, heal, cleanse, kick back, insta attack, die.) These just don't work as intended in my book.

 

Before the reduction in time to death it was somewhat possible. (imo these changes to Expertise formula are partially responsible - also forcing the removal of WZ burst adrenals). You lived longer, and you hit harder.

 

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Pyrotech wise I stopped playing my Merc entirely. My powertech just does it so much better it actually disgusts me. Insta-casts, more tech damage, un-interuptable! Plus the utility of a Pull, and an AoE mez. Why would you even bother doing it as a merc if you have the powertech option?

 

The funny thing is I don't feel that much more survivable as Powertech (the Mez aside) but the ability to burst and remain mobile actually give you a chance in melee.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Krozis

[Aerro]

Meh first your set up looks painful even to look at, and 360k isnt bad for that map with no deaths.

Now can i say get rid of Fusion missle, flame unit, onbaord AOE, these are useless in PVP.

 

i might start a thread up posting biggest PVP scores since 1.3

 

This was my PvE spec. I didn't change my bar either. I just queued up and went in for a few rounds.

[Aerro]

Rflmao. 360k and his excuse is he was wearing campaign gear? What a noob. I have seen better in Pre-50 pvp.

 

No you haven't. Stop trolling me. Its quite sad that this is ALL you do. Are you really that jealous of me that you have to find every single post of mine and ridicule it?

 

I was in straight PvE spec... with straight PvE gear... not changing ANYTHING for PvP and I did fine. My point was that I did fine. Most games I'm getting 400-500k no problem with anywhere between 14-17 medals. I just took a screenshot of an average round.

 

Again, stop following me around and posting over me like you're somebody important.

[Demonsong]

If I went to work and performed my job in the same clueless manner that BW works out class balance I would be bounced out the door so fast it would make your head spin.

 

BW if you truly want to know why subscriptions have been dropping so fast, all you have to do is look at class balance. All you need to know is right there.

[Macroecon]

If I went to work and performed my job in the same clueless manner that BW works out class balance I would be bounced out the door so fast it would make your head spin.

 

BW if you truly want to know why subscriptions have been dropping so fast, all you have to do is look at class balance. All you need to know is right there.

 

I dunno. I think their subscriber numbers would be dropping anyway due to a lack of post-50 content. In fact that overall environment of rapidly dropping subscriber numbers has provided (IMO) camouflage for the poorly thought out class balancing efforts. If ToR subscriber numbers were rising each month and then dropped when they rolled out a badly planned class re-balance, the implications would be obvious. But instead you just have subscriber numbers relentlessly dropping every month which makes the intermittent class rebalancing efforts seem to be a non-factor.

[koffinushko]

No you haven't. Stop trolling me. Its quite sad that this is ALL you do. Are you really that jealous of me that you have to find every single post of mine and ridicule it?

 

I was in straight PvE spec... with straight PvE gear... not changing ANYTHING for PvP and I did fine. My point was that I did fine. Most games I'm getting 400-500k no problem with anywhere between 14-17 medals. I just took a screenshot of an average round.

 

Again, stop following me around and posting over me like you're somebody important.

 

Don't worry dude... These guys are completely missing the point... For u guys .. who don't see and don't want to see... Yes... that dude did 360k dmg in WZ.. in PvE gear... And I am asking you have you seen the others in that screen ? The second best guy did only half dmgYou want survavibility... Have you ever play for a sniper ???? I recommend to you play one... in 10-49 they shine but in 50 you'll say.. Yes.. sniper is just fine but I'll return to my marauder or PT...

Edited September 12, 2012 by koffinushko

[Veovis]

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The survivability here still stinks. No one is denying that if someone leaves a merc in a corner doing his thing, he's going to wreck face. This is true of every class in the game: Ignore it, and you will pay the price.

 

I'm still looking for answers on why we lost survivability back when BW was trying to figure out why Heatseeker was hitting so hard.

I think survivability could be improved if they "mirrored" the tanks' aggro generation PvP benefits. At least with vanguard, the threat generation skills (one of them at least, don't play the class often enough to remember it all) has a benefit in PvP by reducing the target's damage output when they're not attacking the vanguard.

 

There doesn't appear, however, to be any equivalent reduction in damage caused to us if we use Chaff Flare. Perhaps if that were modified for PvP such that it reduced the damage output of say the 3 closest opponents in PvP for 5-10 seconds (when targetting the merc that used CF), people would stop picking on us long enough for us to be more useful.

[yoomazir]

DPS means nothing when you are alone against an equally well equipped & skilled mara/scoundrel/assassin/any other class.

And from what I've seen, 1.4 brings nothing to the table to help us in pvp (at least as dps specced):

 

-First of all they remove us of a 2nd knockback that more than anything gave us a small respite, for what, a effin 2/4 seconds ROOT? FOR ME? A 30 METER RANGED CLASS? You got to be kidding me.

"Hello dear Sentinel, I should be shooting you from far away, but I just got this urge to come close to you, so I can snare you for 2 seconds with my awesome rocket punch, in the meantime feel free to gank me with your 4 meters burst attacks, I'll be QQing in a moment"

 

-New use the 5 TM stacks: instant heal, but if you wanted the TM bonus damage, well, keep spamming those TM, hon, cuz using the instant heal removes it

 

-Pyrotech nerf, Sweltering Heat snare is 30% instead of 50%, thank you Bioware, guess trying to slow that Vanguard was too much for Bioware, to be honest, why don't you just remove it? would make things easier for the other classes you know. Me? Naaaa, don't bother...

 

 

Oh wait, my mistake, we have something now, A PROPER INTERRUPT!!!! I guess it was worth waiting all those months for Bioware to finally give it to us, see you next year when Bioware decides to remove it from us cuz we'll be so OP then...

Edited September 16, 2012 by yoomazir

[davilorius]

From a merc healer point of view, we got a buff with the snare added to kolto missile, that should help us escape powertechs at least for a few seconds. I can see it being really handy in a lot of situations including slowing down the huttball carrier. The self heal kolto shell thing might be nice but I'm not sure I'd spend the skill points for it because there's not a lot I'd want to give up. I will probably not use the interrupt in pvp since I'm mostly targeting friendlies.

 

I agree however the arsenal and pyro mercs were the ones that really needed the fix and it will be interesting to see if the root makes a difference. Probably not.

[Millem]

Why the BW guys hate the Mercenaries so much at the point of leaving the weakiest AC spec even weakier?

Their hole idea of "buff" consists in get the honor of being sliced by a Ravage move at the price of not being able to to throw a melee from a catwalk anymore?

Seriously... did Boba Fett gave them some nightmares when they were kids?

[crunchbarry]

you guys should try specing for heals

[Switterz]

spec for heals? I've got full War Hero gear...if I'm going to regear I'd reather be able to change my AC and then start the grind for proper gear for a decent class.

[Millem]

If in a game debate we have some quotes like "why someone would play Advanced Class X instead of Advanced Class Y?", because X is too clearly inferior and/or useless for a team; you can tell that this game lacks of a good development. In a PvP match, the hole fun consists exactly in a large variant of different play styles and classes to deal. But it seems that BW only wants to see Marauders/Sentinels, Tank Assassins/Shadows and Powertechs/Vanguards in a Warzone.

Untill 1.4, I thought that it was only because they are lazy enuff to fix it. But, after 1.4, I have no doubt that it was intentional. Maybe with only 4 or 5 different classes playing, the cost of a game server becomes cheaper...