1.4 - Where is the Pyro Love?

[Baarabas]

I have played Merc Pyro since Beta. From day one we were the redheaded stepchild of the Merc AC. Within the BH tree we were at the bottom of the barrel with AP for a while. Compared to our PT cousins, we were sickly. This is back before 1.2 when Bodyguard could heal and supercharged gas was an awesome skill. Arsenals ruled the roost. By far the best BH AC in PvE and PvP (followed closely by PT Pyro). I knew then, even with Arsenal and Sorc DPS at its prime, that this game was geared toward melee.

 

Then 1.2 came out and shook all that up. The entire Merc AC took an overall nerf; with Arsenal getting hit the hardest. What surprised me the most is the bottom-feeder Merc Pyro was somehow worthy of a nerf in 1.2 in the Devs eyes? Power Shot, Hired Muscle, DFA, and muzzle fluting. I am still wondering who in the world was complaining about a Merc Pyro being OP? Pretty much all ranged classes took an awful nerf in 1.2. The only good thing (if you can call it that) that came out of 1.2 is that Merc Pyro was no longer the worst AC in the BH tree.

Of course DFA was fixed prior to 1.3.

 

1.3 came and offered the Merc AC a band-aid when we needed a tourniquet. Arsenal of course, since they were nerfed into oblivion, received the greatest attention. Bodyguards recieved none. Merc Pyro's got a 10% armor pen. Now I was appreciative of the bone, but what was taken from us was 3% crit chance, 10% damage on PS, and we lost the flexibility to invest a point by forcing us to purchase Muzzle fluting in order to get our 1.5 sec activation time back. Not exactly an even swap for 10% armor pen on two abilities but what the heck, so we are back to our original pre-1.2 status of bottom-feeding like AP. No? AP got buffed twice between 1.2 and 1.4. No, Merc Pyro and Arsenal are left side-by-side at the bottom.

 

What was left post 1.3? The respec NPC recieved a lot of credits. Mercs would respec to Arsenals to be competitive in PvE, then spec to Pyro for PvP (not that this made them competitive in PvP across all classes, it was just slightly more competitive than Arsenals would have been).

 

Now what was the developer’s solution to all this madness?

 

Prior to Game Update 1.4, it was simple to control a target from a great distance and do so instantly, often as a surprise opener or from an unseen location off-screen. The way control abilities were designed encouraged this behavior, and the resulting gameplay could be frustrating.

 

Frustrating to whom, Melee classes? In case anyone forgot, every patch since 1.2 has nerfed ranged and buffed melee in this game (overall). The "ranged" class in this game only exists for 3-6 seconds. Then you are no longer a "ranged" class, rather you are knife in a gun fight. CC abilities have never tipped the scale to the ranged classes favor in this game. True "Kiting" is a myth. CC abilities tip it toward melee's favor. The devs don’t see this? Reading from this recent post and looking at the changes, I suspect NOT! Ranged got hit again. Madness.

 

In Game Update 1.4, we’ve made adjustments to the range of control abilities under a new philosophy. We want control to be something more readable, more predictable, and less chaotic in effect. To achieve that, control needs to require a setup, an activation time, or be close range such that the controller must overextend or broadcast their intentions in some way.

 

In Game Update 1.4, you’ll notice the following changes:

•Electro Dart and Cryo Grenade now have a 10-meter range.

 

What does this mean for Merc Pyros in 1.4? Nerf. We get an interrupt to try to squeeze into our toolbar somewhere, and we get a nerf to one of our most NEEDED CC skills Electro Dart. Madness.

 

Arsenals and Bodyguard got some love (rocket punch is debatable; why not just put the 2 second root at the end of pushback?), Pyros.....nothing. What did we need? Survivability, either by increasing our DPS (glass cannon style) or giving us some TTK abilities. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=504960 At least something similar to what Arsenals received. What 1.4 did was elevate Arsenals on the totem pole but left Merc Pyro alone at the bottom. I am so tired of being neglected.

[yoomazir]

I know, bro, I know...

[Henu]

you got as much LOVE as mercs mate. The interrupt is great and we thank BW for that but there was nothing in the changes list that is helpful to mercs, 10m range on Dart is stupid seeing we are ranged,

[sithterror]

There wasn't any IMO......y'all got nerfed again.

 

1) Bodygaurd got a good increase, Great. Now they have a bit more heal-surviveability with thier heal tweak and new ability.

 

2) arsenal made out pretty good. RP doesnt give space for kiting, but a 4s root isnt all that bad...just gonna have to learn a new way to evade. The free heal for spamming TL 3 times for a 5 stack is nice for them....prolly see more spec into Bodyguard for heal bonuses than pyro now.

 

3) Pyro got the shaft. Thier interrupt while needed was a good call, but face it.....4s lock out does pretty much nothing for them except delaying an ability. could it be critical or superficial, well eh, that is more of a situational debate, too many variables!

The big bone was the range nerf to the stun. I mean you all got a lousy 2s cast for a stun at range that can be interrupted easily or los'd to shutdown. But now having to be in 10m range isnt good when all your abilities in your rotation are 30m. it isnt a total loss but it hampers your gameplay style in such a way that it can only be used one guy in your face. Gone is the way of getting the kiter with a lead, or running to a defense point and getting an early stun or getting the Marauder before he leaps to ya.

 

With so many other ideas i support in your guy's forum and none of them have been mentioned one way or another, i just sympathize and wonder if BW really gets how each class plays in PvP! Wonder if there is more to come that they obviously cannot tell us about till thier mind is made up.

 

sad

[Baarabas]

I go to the field for 2 weeks and this is how the Devs show that they are listening to their community? At this point I all Mercenaries need to be given the option to respec to Powertech. Merc DPS is all but a joke.

[Krozis]

After these patch notes, and my own controlled tests vs. friends in duels (It's in a different thread on 1.4 changes), I stopped playing arsenal for PVP.

 

I don't enjoy Pyro near as much. I don't hate it, but I don't really care for the lack luster animations... it's just me I guess. But the bottom line is tweaking our Pyro tree for the worse is truly senseless.

 

The aresnal heal will not factor unless you can 'save it' for when someone pays attention to you. Like I've said, I can do an instant one now, without stacking tracer so who cares?

 

So this and including rocket punch amendment I saw no point in perusing Arsenal any further and have switched back to Pyro full time for PVP. The issue is that we actually are better off pre 1.4 for Pyro! Ironic?

[Gyronamics]

Hey lets cripple some aspects of pyro play in PVE as well just because.

 

1) 10m stun means you're well in aggro range by the time you stun, which means no possibility of opening an attack at 30m, instantly stunning and having just over 4s plus 30m distance buffer for the mob to run at you.

 

2) 50% to 30% snare on an ability which is 16% per hit we do and 70% on our default attack weakens our ability to kite mobs if things aren't going so well.

 

It's not even a goddam guaranteed snare for a merc and our best chance of applying it is hardly a powerful attack.

 

When you throw in the guaranteed and very much longer snares that melee (mobs and players) can do, it's even more a joke than it was at 50%.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Gyronamics

[frivera]

After these patch notes, and my own controlled tests vs. friends in duels (It's in a different thread on 1.4 changes), I stopped playing arsenal for PVP.

 

I don't enjoy Pyro near as much. I don't hate it, but I don't really care for the lack luster animations... it's just me I guess. But the bottom line is tweaking our Pyro tree for the worse is truly senseless.

 

The aresnal heal will not factor unless you can 'save it' for when someone pays attention to you. Like I've said, I can do an instant one now, without stacking tracer so who cares?

 

So this and including rocket punch amendment I saw no point in perusing Arsenal any further and have switched back to Pyro full time for PVP. The issue is that we actually are better off pre 1.4 for Pyro! Ironic?

 

I have to agree with you. I leveled as Arsenal and really enjoy the play style, animations, and feeling of doing some damage with the rocket explosions, etc. I don't get the same "feel" when I play Pyro and have dots and TD. At this point I've decided I just won't pvp on my Merc. Going to put the 6 pieces of WH on the shelf, re-gear with pve

Rakata gear, and use my Merc solely for farming credits in Dailies and the occasional Flashpoint. My Sniper is now my main and I'll level him up to 50 and start the WH grind all over again. Only doing this once, so if this game takes another wrong turn, I'm out. Hopefully the changes that come with the Free to Play option will give me a reason to continue playing.

[Baarabas]

Unfortunately I simply don't have the time to play two toons. I am active duty Marine with 4 kids, and I go to school. I could shelve this guy permanently and level another, but the gear grind would be too demoralizing. My Merc Pyro is full WH and it is just a shame to have invested so much of my time into this toon just to have Bioware piss on the class at almost every patch. Now, I am at a decision point to continue playing a class I am stuck with, and continue to be frustrated that I am performing subpar to other classes with no hope for BW recognition or fixes (another 6 months of bad PvP). Or shelve my toon for another, walk that hellacious road that is the "gear grind", knowing all along that I have a toon fully geared that BW has decided to continually wreck. Or just cancel my sub. I hate to quit, but since beta this class has performed at bottom of BH class,.and I can't continue to shovel $50.00 a month for mere hopes that the next update will fix my class.

[frivera]

Unfortunately I simply don't have the time to play two toons. I am active duty Marine with 4 kids, and I go to school. I could shelve this guy permanently and level another, but the gear grind would be too demoralizing. My Merc Pyro is full WH and it is just a shame to have invested so much of my time into this toon just to have Bioware piss on the class at almost every patch. Now, I am at a decision point to continue playing a class I am stuck with, and continue to be frustrated that I am performing subpar to other classes with no hope for BW recognition or fixes (another 6 months of bad PvP). Or shelve my toon for another, walk that hellacious road that is the "gear grind", knowing all along that I have a toon fully geared that BW has decided to continually wreck. Or just cancel my sub. I hate to quit, but since beta this class has performed at bottom of BH class,.and I can't continue to shovel $50.00 a month for mere hopes that the next update will fix my class.

 

Damn, we could be related. I've got 3 kids and a busy job/home life. Merc has 6 pieces of WH but I'm leveling my 42 Sniper (sooooooo much better as a ranged pvp class). But I know that the leveling is the easy part. Once I hit 50 I'll have the same gear grind for BM, WH and soon Elite WH. It only gets worse as you go up in tier and I dread starting the process all over again. This may be the time to quit. Either try GW2, WoW expansion, or take a break and wait for the next fotm game. I'm trying to hold on until F2P kicks in to see what changes are made, but damn, it's hard.

[Mancer]

Agreed man, completely rude on how they treat the merc class. by far what used to be my favorite.

[Baarabas]

Damn, we could be related. I've got 3 kids and a busy job/home life. Merc has 6 pieces of WH but I'm leveling my 42 Sniper (sooooooo much better as a ranged pvp class). But I know that the leveling is the easy part. Once I hit 50 I'll have the same gear grind for BM, WH and soon Elite WH. It only gets worse as you go up in tier and I dread starting the process all over again. This may be the time to quit. Either try GW2, WoW expansion, or take a break and wait for the next fotm game. I'm trying to hold on until F2P kicks in to see what changes are made, but damn, it's hard.

 

If they would communicate they might not lose customers.

[frivera]

If they would communicate they might not lose customers.

 

Well, never, ever, ever thought I'd do it, but I renewed by WoW subscription. Jumped on MMO-Champion and was seduced by the sheer volume of information on the new expansion and additions to the game since I left in March. Although I cringe at the outdated graphics engine and character models I must admit both the pve and pvp are still very enjoyable. I guess I'll be fighting Kung Fu Pandas (God damn the guy who decided to add pandas to WoW). But I'll also be seeing several new areas, new levels, abilities, pets, quests, raids, etc. Cancelled my SWTOR accounts, 2 weeks left, see you guys when it goes F2P. Take care.