Invictos Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 No, the news was 1.5M "pre-purchases" and 1M "pre-orders" as reported by ArenaNet. They also have temporarily stopped selling the digital version because of how many copies have sold (though you can still get them from retailers). They also mentioned recently (on Aug. 30) how they have banned 4,000 accounts already and that it represented 0.01% of the customer base. That equates to 4 million players if that is the case. If they're rounding down from 0.014%, then it could also equate to about 2.8 million players. I'm not taking a position one way or the other on GW2's success; I neither know nor care about that game -- but I wouldn't put much stock in offhanded statements about this-or-that percentage of their playerbase. Chances are, those numbers will always be fudged to put the best possible light on the game's success (and that goes for any product). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revan-the-knight Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 open your eyes to more than just your server, only a matter of time before the effect trickles down to your server. sad but true dont get mad cause people with half a brain realize this game is losing ppl little by little. f2p is just a band aid on a sinking ship Band aid? yeah, say that to DDO and LOTRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insomnio Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Intelligent business managers (and EA suits know how to run businesses) understand that sunk costs are irrelevant and they need to decide point-forward. The amount of money invested into the game is irrelevant at this point. The only question is if they can profitably run it moving forward. Obviously they thought they could not do that with the subscription model else they would not have invested in the F2P infrastructure. We'll see if that gets them the profitability they need. I'm sure they can get there if they eliminate 100% of the development team and just go into maintenance mode for however long the rabid fanboys will pay the $15/month to honor their memory of BioWare's lost excellence and love of Star Wars. This is an accurate assessment of the situation. Im certain that even the devs were shocked at the secondary and tertiary lay offs that took place to the team. It left them scrambling internally, so much so that they do not have much to say regarding content, or do they have much interaction with the community at all anymore. Im sure they will be outsourcing a lot of the F2P material, to keep costs down and the overhead low. Expect content to not look very Star Wars oriented, rather futuristic asian stylings. It has already started, with the Terror from Beyond OP. A giant daemon space worm floating through an abyss in a Star Wars game? Not the most Star Wars thing I have seen or could think of for game content. Free to play is going to bring in a few more players, but they are going to be content playing the single player aspect of the game (which is all free), so do not expect much revenue from those players. Am I bitter that I payed more money than I have ever spend on a video game purchase to experience content that is free in 5ish months after I paid? Yes, a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 If they're rounding down from 0.014%, then it could also equate to about 2.8 million players. I'm not taking a position one way or the other on GW2's success; I neither know nor care about that game -- but I wouldn't put much stock in offhanded statements about this-or-that percentage of their playerbase. Chances are, those numbers will always be fudged to put the best possible light on the game's success (and that goes for any product). Wouldn't 2.8 million players at this point make it the largest MMO launch ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Call me out on my opinion? Is it not ok for me to have my own opinion and share what I think? Or is it only ok if it agrees with yours? Can I call you out on your opinion as well? Yup. Calling you out on your opinion. Aside from the generalization, and please correct me if I'm wrong, your sub expired and you shouldn't be allowed to post in these forums any longer by rule. Therefore it is not ok for you to share your own opinion here. I, on the other hand, pay monthly to post my opinions and play the game. So... no, you don't have to agree with me, but again I ask the question, as one who has left the game long ago and how has had his sub expired, why are you here? Why do you feel you are still a part of this community? I really didn't really want to bring this up again. But I want everyone to know that your motivations and intent are not quite what they seem. Seemingly, you have not found greener pastures and your obsession with the inadequacies of this game are beyond helpful criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invictos Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Wouldn't 2.8 million players at this point make it the largest MMO launch ever? I honestly don't know and don't care. Since GW2 isn't (AFAIK) a subscription-based game, I'm not even sure if it's directly comparable to more traditional MMOs. My only point was that even a relatively straightforward numerical statement -- like, "4,000 players represent 0.1% of our population" -- can be fudged a lot. Depending on how that number was rounded, we could be talking about anything from 2.8 million players to 6.7 million players. That's a bleeping enormous amount of potential fudging, just from rounding to the nearest tenth of a percentage point. There was a typo in the post I originally quoted, by the way. If 4,000 players were 0.01% (one hundredth of one percent) of the playerbase, then the playerbase would be 40 million strong. He obviously meant that 4,000 players is 0.1%. Didn't catch that the first time, apologies for my own subsequent typo using his number. Edited August 31, 2012 by Invictos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicain Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Diablo 3 has more servers going then this game does just about. Lol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Diablo 3 has more servers going then this game does just about. Lol? Are you trying to say SWTOR should bring in a cash AH to bring in more players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Are you trying to say SWTOR should bring in a cash AH to bring in more players? Isn't that sort of what they're doing with free2pay2win, except EA will get all the cash instead of the players getting some of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Isn't that sort of what they're doing with free2pay2win, except EA will get all the cash instead of the players getting some of it? Purples aren't being sold, level 50 gear isn't being sold, warzone and raid boosts aren't being sold. Personally I think leveling blues are junk and not at all like the Diablo AH where you can and need to buy high end gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Purples aren't being sold yet, level 50 gear isn't being sold yet, warzone and raid boosts aren't being sold yet. Personally I think leveling blues are junk and not at all like the Diablo AH where you can and need to buy high end gear. Fixed your post. If the only thing they sell is leveling blues and experience boosts, there is no way the cash shop will generate the revenue necessary to support the service. They're going to have to sell more compelling boosts than that. And, no, people won't pay to access the endgame content. At least enough to support the service won't. They've already proven that by unsubscribing. Edited August 31, 2012 by DarthTHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Fixed your post. If the only thing they sell is leveling blues and experience boosts, there is no way the cash shop will generate the revenue necessary to support the service. They're going to have to sell more compelling boosts than that. And, no, people won't pay to access the endgame content. At least enough to support the service won't. They've already proven that by unsubscribing. Baseless speculation. I can go around claiming Bioware is going to give us all 1000 dollars, doesn't make it true. I could also go around claiming that Bioware's next patch will feature bunny suits, doesn't make it true. There are a number of games that make plenty of revenue with their cash shops without going p2win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Blizzard is not selling gear. PLAYERS are selling gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Baseless speculation. I can go around claiming Bioware is going to give us all 1000 dollars, doesn't make it true. I could also go around claiming that Bioware's next patch will feature bunny suits, doesn't make it true. There are a number of games that make plenty of revenue with their cash shops without going p2win. If by "plenty" you mean "two", sure, I'm with you. Three now that GW2 is out, I guess. Do you really think EA has the sort of integrity to pull it off? Even after their devs have said boosts will be in the shop -- months before the shop is out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxx Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Purples aren't being sold, level 50 gear isn't being sold, warzone and raid boosts aren't being sold. Personally I think leveling blues are junk and not at all like the Diablo AH where you can and need to buy high end gear. They probably will make the new levels up to max level a grind, so players will buy boosts. Which boosts they already stated they`d sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 If by "plenty" you mean "two", sure, I'm with you. Three now that GW2 is out, I guess. Do you really think EA has the sort of integrity to pull it off? Even after their devs have said boosts will be in the shop -- months before the shop is out? The devs have said XP boosts will be in the shop. I'm almost certain f2p will not launch with p2win, given their statements on f2p so far. I also believe it would take at least 6 months for them to implement p2win, as they need to collect data(2 month period), analyze and debate the data internally (another 2 months), and then prepare to implement serious p2win(last 2 months). If the game goes p2win I'll probably unsub. I just think at this point any predictions that the game will become p2win are very premature. p2win does not necessarily make the most money, otherwise GW2 would've taken that route, as would've DDO. This is the fallacy in arguing p2win as guarenteed. If the analysis does return saying p2win would make more money in SWTOR, then p2win might very well come to pass. But they have not even had the opportunity to test the market yet. I do not know which way the devs will go if their analysts tell them p2win is more profitable, but I also do not know whether p2win would be more profitable than the GW2 or DDO model in this game. In the long run P2Win has the potential to destroy Bioware's brand name worth, which is something they will also factor into cost/benefit analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 All of this is pretty funny consider that God-sent Guild Wars 2 features already a cash shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnight Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Blizzard is not selling gear. PLAYERS are selling gear. That is a valid distinction IMO especially considering that this game has bound items where as in D3 nothing is bound. Edited August 31, 2012 by Jnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocNessMonster Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Though in fairness, 3 months is about as long as a majority players play an MMO these days before announcing it boring, a failure, etc. etc. Three months is the expected lifespan of the average user in most MMOs. Anything more then box price and three months is just bonus income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 The devs have said XP boosts will be in the shop. I'm almost certain f2p will not launch with p2win, given their statements on f2p so far. I also believe it would take at least 6 months for them to implement p2win, as they need to collect data(2 month period), analyze and debate the data internally (another 2 months), and then prepare to implement serious p2win(last 2 months). If the game goes p2win I'll probably unsub. I just think at this point any predictions that the game will become p2win are very premature. p2win does not necessarily make the most money, otherwise GW2 would've taken that route, as would've DDO. This is the fallacy in arguing p2win as guarenteed. If the analysis does return saying p2win would make more money in SWTOR, then p2win might very well come to pass. But they have not even had the opportunity to test the market yet. I do not know which way the devs will go if their analysts tell them p2win is more profitable, but I also do not know whether p2win would be more profitable than the GW2 or DDO model in this game. In the long run P2Win has the potential to destroy Bioware's brand name worth, which is something they will also factor into cost/benefit analysis. One dev said xp boosts. Well, he said LIKE xp boosts. The other just said boosts. XP isn't the only thing they can boost, you know? BioWare's brand name worth is pretty much in the crapper now, isn't it? After the ME3 ending debacle, DAO2, and now SWTOR, what reputation do you think they have left? When you read the words, "Electronic Arts", do you think "Games made by gamers who love games"? Do you think "integrity"? Your speculation about P2W is interesting, but you're giving them far more credit than they've earned. The cash shop will release with boosts that at best walk the line - some people will call them P2W, others won't. That will be day 1. The next release of stuff into that shop will have more insidious P2W stuff. It's not going to take 6 months. EA won't let it. They want money. They probably NEED the cash shop money to keep this service going. They'll do whatever they can easily do to get it. They've already proved they won't (or can't) do the hard stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Three months is the expected lifespan of the average user in most MMOs. Anything more then box price and three months is just bonus income. You have a official source stating this of course cause before WOW hit the expected life span of a plater was closer to 12 months then 3. Not saying your wrong with how badly games been dumbed down since WOW release and on. Most gamers max out in 4 weeks and are bored because game was to easy Just wondering if you have a actual source for this 3 month rotation or just personal opinion based on less then 10 years of MMORPG experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalaxyStrong Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Blizzard is not selling gear. PLAYERS are selling gear. Please let's not talk about that abomination known as Diablo 3. Every time I hear the title my ears bleed and every time I see that see that game I go temporarily blind due to the fact that IT'S HORRIBLE. Blizzard should shut down the servers, refund us our money and apologies for that steaming pile of $%*@ they call a game.:eek: BTW, D3 CM's are the worst. Beishok and his fun boy crew should be fired for being some of the worst CM's I've ever seen. WOW, I think I just spontaneously combusted due to flaming.....sorry guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) As much as I liked the DLC Leviathan, I must say that it's not a very good omen for TOR on one point. Leviathan is very generous in the field of P2W, with insanely good weapon mods (40% bonus damage on headshots...what ?) and Dominate MC any organic ennemy. Period. Work on brute and nemesis. I mean here, Dominate is not OP. It's gamebreaker. The hardest fights in the game are JOKE when you throw in a maxed out dominate. Edited August 31, 2012 by Angedechu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnight Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) GalaxyStrong I understand where you are coming from, but you can't deny that D3 has implemented some controversial designs that make for good discussion. Simply saying it's horrible is not very constructive. Looking past all your dislikes of the game, the point was valid because if the developer is selling items it is basically an unlimited quantity controlled only by how many people are willing to buy, however when the players are selling, especially in an MMO where items get bound if you use them, the dynamic of limitations based on RNG and lockouts still exist. Edited August 31, 2012 by Jnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I sold a single D3 item, for 4-5 bucks. I got the money. Not Blizzard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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