LadyKulvax Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Close, yes. But I agree with Jensaarai's conclusion. I think Vader's lightsaber mastery is certainly superior, however I think Malgus is superior with the Force, I do believe that if Malgus does call upon his force abilities more specifically Maelstrom, then Malgus wins, if he doesn't, then Vader would cleanly win in a duel. Edited October 9, 2013 by LadyKulvax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambunctious Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Yeah... too bad you're wrong. No, you're wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I think Vader's lightsaber mastery is certainly superior, however I think Malgus is superior with the Force, I do believe that if Malgus does call upon his force abilities more specifically Maelstrom, then Malgus wins, if he doesn't, then Vader would cleanly win with the Force. Well that's the thing. How likely is it that Malgus is going to use Maelstrom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 No, you're wrong! Rayla already covered it for me. So I suggest reading that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 For Ham's ease of reading, here is my earlier post, make of it what you will: Except the Banite line of Sith and the Rule of Two were the strongest line of Sith as the Jedi of the Golden Age during the Rise of the Empire days were the most powerful, so i am not sure where you get that idea from. Whilst the difference in eras wouldn't mean that someone like Revan would lose to Kit Fisto, the bar was significantly raised by Revenge of the Sith and the quality of Force Users as a whole simply got much better. No longer were there distinctions between those that used either the Force or focused solely on lightsaber combat, both of these things were demanded of a Jedi Master and especially of a Sith Lord, you couldn't rely on one, you had to be highly proficient in both, even the most dedicated lightsaber duellists among the Jedi Masters were very powerful Force Users and the same can be said vice versa. However the further back into the Old Republic era we go, the more and more the distinction is made that a Force User can only be one or the other, with only a few exceptions, this fades drastically by the time of the movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambunctious Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Except the Banite line of Sith and the Rule of Two were the strongest line of Sith as the Jedi of the Golden Age during the Rise of the Empire days were the most powerful, so i am not sure where you get that idea from. Whilst the difference in eras wouldn't mean that someone like Revan would lose to Kit Fisto, the bar was significantly raised by Revenge of the Sith and the quality of Force Users as a whole simply got much better. No longer were there distinctions between those that used either the Force or focused solely on lightsaber combat, both of these things were demanded of a Jedi Master and especially of a Sith Lord, you couldn't rely on one, you had to be highly proficient in both, even the most dedicated lightsaber duellists among the Jedi Masters were very powerful Force Users and the same can be said vice versa. However the further back into the Old Republic era we go, the more and more the distinction is made that a Force User can only be one or the other, with only a few exceptions, this fades drastically by the time of the movies. They can claim that, but it really doesn't make any sense unless they had trained 100's of apprentices each generation to increase the odds of finding the one with the strongest connection to the force. Just think of the ones they missed. Out of trillions of beings in the galaxy, they try to keep to one master, and one apprentice? The odds would be against them on finding that single best person in the entire galaxy to train. Training as many as possible, and letting them fight it out would have been a better strategy. It's not Highlander either. There is no beheading one, and the winner gets the power of the defeated. They spend all that time training one, and when it comes time to cull one of them, and the trainee loses, they then have to start all over. I mean, it's not like they're breeding more sith, and better genes each generation. It's just a random force sensitive person of possibly millions in the galaxy to train. If it wasn't for a fallen jedi, and another jedi plopping Anakin right in front of Palpatine to manipulate, those machinations might not have served the sith well. A lot of lucky breaks went Palpatine's way. Else Anakin might never have been trained at all. In any case, Malgus was a true visionary for a sith. Had he been supported, the sith might have truly flourished in the galaxy. Edited October 9, 2013 by Hambunctious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Well that's the thing. How likely is it that Malgus is going to use Maelstrom? Even with it...I don't think it's an "I win button" noting that it drags around loose objects/people with TK. Well...considering that Vader isn't loose and is far more powerful in the TK department than Malgus, I think he would be fine as the attack only seems to affect said loose objects/people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoskitoMando Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Before his armor Vader would easily win, with his armor I think Malgus would have the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) I would hate to think Malgus as more powerful than Vader. Edited October 9, 2013 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Reading this thread was interesting, much has changed. Anyway, some thoughts: Hambunctious, your making a bizarre assertion here. Because your forgetting that Darth Vader was trained by the greatest Sith Lord to have ever lived, who mastered every known dark side power in existence and created new ones. He was a far far superior Sith Master to anybody in existence during the Old Republic era. Especially Veradun. You are also making several misassumptions about the Rule of Two. Firstly, its not necessarily about finding and training the most powerful Sith of the day. Its about collecting power and knowledge in the dark side and slowly building to a all-powerful apex. In this sense you are mistaken to say that the Apprentice does not take the power of his Master. For all intensive purposes they do, not only do they have to be more powerful than their master to defeat them, but it is the Master's role to teach their apprentice much of what they know, and store all the lore and secrets they have collected in holocrons etc. So each Sith builds upon the next. Regardless, finding powerful Force users is an easy task, because such power never goes unnoticed. Without taking into account the fact that Vader is the Chosen One. Can't really score any better potential. And this is reflected by the fact that Vader, despite being incapable of wielding Sith Lightning. Has more knowledge in the Force and can wield a greater variety if powers than Malgus. Don't believe me? Look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 That said I do think this battle would be very very close and I do believe that if Malgus employed Force Maelstrom, Vader would have little chance.I've actually since come to disagree here, because Vader isn't capable of just blocking lightning with his lightsaber. Like I said, Vader is more knowledgeable and practiced in the Force than Malgus. And one of the powers he has mastered is a variant of Force barrier. His is capable of creating a protection bubble around himself which should feasibly defend him against the Force Maelstrom - given that Vader is the more powerful Force User. So yeah, I think because of that Vader wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I've actually since come to disagree here, because Vader isn't capable of just blocking lightning with his lightsaber. Like I said, Vader is more knowledgeable and practiced in the Force than Malgus. And one of the powers he has mastered is a variant of Force barrier. His is capable of creating a protection bubble around himself which should feasibly defend him against the Force Maelstrom - given that Vader is the more powerful Force User. So yeah, I think because of that Vader wins. he also showed skill in Tutanimis after all he could easily absorb and deflect blaster fire with his hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinodan Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Hello. I really enjoy discussions like this. I think vader would win due to his sheer physical strength against Malgus. Lets be honest Vader is just a walking tank. Malgus got his edge too however I think that Vader would just trash Malgus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Except the Banite line of Sith and the Rule of Two were the strongest line of Sith as the Jedi of the Golden Age during the Rise of the Empire days were the most powerful, so i am not sure where you get that idea from. How you figure that?Nothing significant to fight for a 1000 years then at the end fighting a bunch of droids. Jedi Masters in the Council , i repeat *in the Council* having problems with a cyborg that is not even force sensitive. And i am not even going to get into the Rule of Two failure,since its a broad subject and the offtopic would be too much. ( the color team should create a thread dedicated to the Rule of Two) It doesn't matter anyway,Vader is more powerful than Malgus in any case. Edited October 9, 2013 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) How you figure that?Nothing significant to fight for a 1000 years then at the end fighting a bunch of droids. Jedi Masters in the Council , i repeat *in the Council* having problems with a cyborg that is not even force sensitive. And i am not even going to get into the Rule of Two failure,since its a broad subject and the offtopic would be too much. ( the color team should create a thread dedicated to the Rule of Two) It doesn't matter anyway,Vader is more powerful than Malgus in any case.There is nothing to discuss, the Rule of Two was a success in every possible way and produced some of the most powerful Sith Lords ever. Edited October 9, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) produced some of the most powerful Sith Lords Just as every Sith Order out there. Rule of Two was a success in every possible way Hate to burst your bubble but no it wasn't. Edited October 9, 2013 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Just as every Sith Order out there. I think you'll find that none have been quite as successful as the Order of Sith Lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Hate to burst your bubble but no it wasn't.Erm yes it was. Goals of the Order of the Sith Lords. 1. Create the Sith'ari - check. 2. Achieve the Grand Plan - check. 3. Create the most powerful Sith Lord ever - check. Yup, complete and utter success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) I think you'll find that none have been quite as successful as the Order of Sith Lords. For example I would name Ruin's order as more successful.A Republic reduced to almost nothing for hundreds of years beats rulling the galaxy for 20 years in my book. Edited October 9, 2013 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) 1. Create the Sith'ari - check. 2. Achieve the Grand Plan - check. 3. Create the most powerful Sith Lord ever - check. 1.technically the sith'ari created it,fulfilling a prophesy 2.check 3.a very questionable check Yup, complete and utter success a very,very short lived success ended by an amusing failure.+ almost an utter disaster (Gravid) If i was a sith i would pray to the Force to spare me it's success with all my heart. Edited October 9, 2013 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) For example I would name Ruin's order as more successful.A Republic reduced to almost nothing for hundreds of years beats rulling the galaxy for 20 years in my book.You mean the Order that failed to destroy the Republic, failed to destroy the Jedi, failed to produce any notable Sith and disintegrated after a few decades? Yeah, real impressive. EDIT: And no I don't consider that mosh-pit of backstabbing Sith that usurped one another every other decade to be an 'Order' of any kind. It was a mess, the Republic were just too weak to deal with it. Edited October 9, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 a very,very short lived success ended by an amusing failure.If i was a sith i would pray to the Force to spare me it's success with all my heart.Erm, this isn't the case. The Rule of Two was abandoned after Darth Sidious' ascension and was replaced with the Rule of One, which yes was short lived and ended in failure. Once again, the Rule of Two was a complete success, but was abandoned foolishly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) disintegrated after a few decades? ... Actually the sith Darth Ruin started, existed for a thousand years and was replaced by the Brotherhood of Darkness.It reduced the Republic to almost nothing for hundreds of years and created the Republic Dark Age. The Sith walked around in the galaxy almost unopposed with almost free reign for hundreds of years.The Dark Side was dominant. I would take that over a thousand years of skulking around glorifying my single self and my single apprentice and our sith conspiracy , any day now. * * * Backstabbing critique?As opposed to the Rule of Two's and any other Sith Order's *lack* of backstabbing? P.S If you wanna go through the semantics road,the Rule of Two technically ended with Tenebrous ,because Plagueis abandoned it also,replacing it with his own doctrine .So in the end ,technically the Rule of Two basically achieved virtually nothing, because it was not the Rule of Two that toppled the galaxy. Edited October 9, 2013 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 1.technically the sith'ari created it,fulfilling a prophesy 2.check 3.a very questionable check a very,very short lived success ended by an amusing failure.+ almost an utter disaster (Gravid) If i was a sith i would pray to the Force to spare me it's success with all my heart. 1. True. 3. Not questionable Darth Gravid's failure seems to be overemphasized. Obviously the Order of the Sith Lords wasn't destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Darth Gravid's failure seems to be overemphasized. Obviously the Order of the Sith Lords wasn't destroyed. Yes. However it was an example of one of its deeply rooted weaknesses.With that said ,i am not downplaying it's strengths ,because obviously they exist. * * * But this thread is completely not about this and we are off topic.If there is going to be a discussion about this,it should be in a different thread. Edited October 9, 2013 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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