TOR to sell Stated Gear In FTP cash shop here is our new content after 6 monthes of n

[Blackardin]

We are effectively being charged TWICE.

 

When LOTRO went F2P all the content you'd already had access too you kept access too, that is NOT what they are talking about with SWTOR.

 

It's frankly terrible that people that bought the full price box, paid 9-12 months of subscriptions are basically just going to get a few cartel coins for their loyalty to the game.

 

Nevermind that content dangled as a free subscription carrot is not being mooted as having to be paid for as well.

 

What content are they taking away from you and requiring you to buy back?

[Blackardin]

 

 

It will utterly destroy the crafting market (but Bioware won't really care about that as it's impossible for them to make money off anyway).

 

But it will also badly unbalance L1-49 PvP and OPvP (such as it is).

 

 

You raise an interesting idea with culling drops though, as the players wouldn't know if they did that (by a sensible amount), but it would encourage people to buy them for RL cash - you may have a future in online gaming.

 

There is no crafting market. There is only a mat selling market....mostly because they listened to the vocal few that believe they know more then they do and insisted that crafting be "challenging" and "difficult" to the level of raiding. Currently you lose money crafting and make millions selling mats.

[HarleysRule]

 

 

It will utterly destroy the crafting market (but Bioware won't really care about that as it's impossible for them to make money off anyway).

 

But it will also badly unbalance L1-49 PvP and OPvP (such as it is).

 

 

You raise an interesting idea with culling drops though, as the players wouldn't know if they did that (by a sensible amount), but it would encourage people to buy them for RL cash - you may have a future in online gaming.

 

I disagree, as long as the cash shop is limited to blues, and if cash shop blues don't have expertise. It would probably still be cheaper to buy crafted blues on the GTN than to buy a full set of blues in the cash shop. It would certainly be cheaper to craft your own than to buy blues in the cash shop.

 

You shouldn't be PvPing in greens anyway, so I would actually enjoy the tears of people PvPing in green trash complaining about getting owned in PvP...again, assuming blue cash shop leveling gear doesn't have expertise.

[Goretzu]

What content are they taking away from you and requiring you to buy back?

 

OPs completely, and most everything else in a limited sense, if you go F2P after having been a subscriber for the first 12 month of the game being Live (in LOTRO they basically grandfathered all that in).

 

 

It's also not at all clear what happens if you buy and adventure pack like Makeb (ignoring that it was supposed to be free in the first place) as a subscriber and then drop to a F2P account.

[Andryah]

We are effectively being charged TWICE.

 

When LOTRO went F2P all the content you'd already had access too you kept access too, that is NOT what they are talking about with SWTOR.

 

Actually, everything they have said so far makes it sound exactly like the LoTRO/DDO (aka Turbine) model.

 

You are trying to argue about "grandfathering of access", and that is pointless as far as I am concerned because that is not core to the Freemium model. That is just people like you wanting eveything for free forever.

 

Once again, you are creating percetion that exists in your mind, but has not been presented by Bioware, and pitching it in the forum as though it is fact.

 

We are effectively being charged TWICE.

 

When LOTRO went F2P all the content you'd already had access too you kept access too, that is NOT what they are talking about with SWTOR.

 

It's frankly terrible that people that bought the full price box, paid 9-12 months of subscriptions are basically just going to get a few cartel coins for their loyalty to the game.

 

Non factual hyperbole.

 

They have in fact said that subsribers get access to ALL the same content that they had access to as a subscriber. Free players on the other hand do not.

 

They have also said they will do content releases on a more regular basis (six weeks), and that such content will continue to be free to subscribers. They have not yet said if said content will be free to non-subscribers.

 

What is unknown, until they tell us definitively (as opposed to just sharing thing they are "thinking about") is how Makeb and a few other large content moves will be released to subscribers. And what is unknown is are they making it now part of a much large set of content that meets generally accepted standards for MMOs to qualify as a paid expansion product. We don't yet, so you constantly making sweeping statements of speculation and presenting is at fact is inaccurate and inappropriate.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Andryah

[Blackardin]

OPs completely, and most everything else in a limited sense, if you go F2P after having been a subscriber for the first 12 month of the game being Live (in LOTRO they basically grandfathered all that in).

 

 

It's also not at all clear what happens if you buy and adventure pack like Makeb (ignoring that it was supposed to be free in the first place) as a subscriber and then drop to a F2P account.

 

Are you asking to go free to play and maintain all of the content that you now have a subscriber?

[ripster]

OPs completely, and most everything else in a limited sense, if you go F2P after having been a subscriber for the first 12 month of the game being Live (in LOTRO they basically grandfathered all that in).

If you drop your sub now, you lose access to everything. I don't know how you still don't get that. F2P is a new option, and it is free. Right now, free gets you nothing. After F2P, free gets you a lot more. You really think it makes sense to add F2P and let every subscriber switch to free and keep everything? Who would keep a sub?

[Goretzu]

There is no crafting market. There is only a mat selling market....mostly because they listened to the vocal few that believe they know more then they do and insisted that crafting be "challenging" and "difficult" to the level of raiding. Currently you lose money crafting and make millions selling mats.

 

There'll be no mat selling market either if there litterally is no crafting market at all.

 

I disagree, as long as the cash shop is limited to blues, and if cash shop blues don't have expertise. It would probably still be cheaper to buy crafted blues on the GTN than to buy a full set of blues in the cash shop. It would certainly be cheaper to craft your own than to buy blues in the cash shop.

 

You shouldn't be PvPing in greens anyway, so I would actually enjoy the tears of people PvPing in green trash complaining about getting owned in PvP...again, assuming blue cash shop leveling gear doesn't have expertise.

 

I'm not convinced expertise has as much influence on the L1-49 game as just being well geared does, however if they are selling PvE blues on the cashshop then I see no reason why they wouldn't be selling PvP gear of a similar type too.

 

Whether you enjoy anyone's tears or not is neither here nor there, everyone has hobbies, but that doesn't mean someone's hobbies have anything to do with business, balance or sense.

[ReverendAnderson]

Paying for new content is BS. This is what the subscription fee IS FOR.

 

No it isn't. The sub fee is for playing the existing game for another month. Free content updates are to keep people paying the sub fee by giving them more stuff to do.

If you're at the point where paying you sub fee is just to see what comes next, and not to play what's here now, then you're at the point where you should stop paying the sub fee. Because you don't have any say in or control over what new content gets made or what's done with it once that happens ... so don't pay for it until you know what you're getting.

[Andryah]

There'll be no mat selling market either if there litterally is no crafting market at all.

 

Well, at least you used the word "if" this time, rather then presenting it as fact.

 

If he sun does not come up tomorrow, there will be no sunshine.

 

Freemium models change crafting dynamics, they don't kill crafting, and also do not kill materials markets. I made way more gold in LoTRO AFTER it went Freemium, just selling mats. Even today, mats sell well, even low level mats.

[Twor]

All f2p games with sub options give new content patches for free for the subs (expansion packs cost, but thats to be expected).

 

If TOR really wants to charge for contentpatches I guess they can really close their offices. But they didn't look at the other games when it came to implement features (groupfinder, crossserver wzs etc), so why should they look at other item shops and see how it actually works...Kinda sad.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Twor

[Goretzu]

If you drop your sub now, you lose access to everything. I don't know how you still don't get that. F2P is a new option, and it is free. Right now, free gets you nothing. After F2P, free gets you a lot more. You really think it makes sense to add F2P and let every subscriber switch to free and keep everything? Who would keep a sub?

 

Because that's not what I'm saying.

 

When LOTRO went F2P all the stuff people had access too they kept access too (they didn't suddenly have limited access to SoA or MoM or SoM content).

 

New stuff had to be bought and new accounts had to buy most everything, but those accounts that HAD bought things and subbed kept what they had access too (content-wise).

 

 

 

It's not even clear if you have a sub and buy Makeb under F2P whether you'd keep full access to Makeb if you then dropped to F2P, dispite paying for Makeb in the first place. Or whether you'd have to pay again to access Makeb content under F2P.

[Twor]

Because that's not what I'm saying.

 

When LOTRO went F2P all the stuff people had access too they kept access too (they didn't suddenly have limited access to SoA or MoM or SoM content).

 

New stuff had to be bought and new accounts had to buy most everything, but those accounts that HAD bought things and subbed kept what they had access too (content-wise).

 

 

 

It's not even clear if you have a sub and buy Makeb under F2P whether you'd keep full access to Makeb if you then dropped to F2P, dispite paying for Makeb in the first place. Or whether you'd have to pay again to access Makeb content under F2P.

 

New books were free for subs in LOTRO as well. Expansion packs not, but the content patches following f2p didn't cost us subscribers a single Turbine point. You had full access to everything. As it should be.

[Andryah]

When LOTRO went F2P all the stuff people had access too they kept access too (they didn't suddenly have limited access to SoA or MoM or SoM content).

 

That's actually not true. If it was true by the way, nobody would continue to subscribe becasue they had access to everything for free under a grandfather clause. That is simply not true.

 

SOME things were grandfathered in, and even today if you sub for one month SOME things are grandfathered to your account for life in LoTRO.

[Goretzu]

Well, at least you used the word "if" this time, rather then presenting it as fact.

 

If he sun does not come up tomorrow, there will be no sunshine.

 

Freemium models change crafting dynamics, they don't kill crafting, and also do not kill materials markets. I made way more gold in LoTRO AFTER it went Freemium, just selling mats. Even today, mats sell well, even low level mats.

 

There is no doubt that selling blue gear and weapons will utterly destroy the crafting market.

 

There is no "if" about that, just whether they are silly enough to do it or not.

 

 

Interestingly with LOTRO it again shows the selling creep, first no stat gear (for a long time) then stat gear (with "no intention to sell raid gear at this time"). Of course eventually they'll likely sucumb to that as well.

And bare in mind Turbine held out pretty well, and weren't controlled by WB from the off, where as EA already has prior form for P2W.

[TUXs]

We are effectively being charged TWICE.

 

When LOTRO went F2P all the content you'd already had access too you kept access too, that is NOT what they are talking about with SWTOR.

 

It's frankly terrible that people that bought the full price box, paid 9-12 months of subscriptions are basically just going to get a few cartel coins for their loyalty to the game.

 

Nevermind that content dangled as a free subscription carrot is not being mooted as having to be paid for as well.

Where your argument falls apart is that, as of right now, before F2P, you still MUST pay your $15 a month to access EVERYTHING/ANYTHING.

 

Asking the same once the game goes F2P, doesn't mean you're being charged twice...the deal is actually better than what you originally bought...not that I'm for F2P, I'm not...but your argument is full of holes.

[Goretzu]

That's actually not true. If it was true by the way, nobody would continue to subscribe becasue they had access to everything for free under a grandfather clause. That is simply not true.

 

SOME things were grandfathered in, and even today if you sub for one month SOME things are grandfathered to your account for life in LoTRO.

 

All content you had access to you still have access too, if that is not true then what was taken away?

[TUXs]

There is no doubt that selling blue gear and weapons will utterly destroy the crafting market.

Crafting is dead with F2P. That's what happens in every F2P game. There's no company stupid enough to allow players to craft things they can sell. If you're playing this game for crafting, find another game.

[Twor]

Where your argument falls apart is that, as of right now, before F2P, you still MUST pay your $15 a month to access EVERYTHING/ANYTHING.

 

Asking the same once the game goes F2P, doesn't mean you're being charged twice...the deal is actually better than what you originally bought...not that I'm for F2P, I'm not...but your argument is full of holes.

 

You'd pay twice if you had to buy the small content patches in the future as a sub. Again, emptahize on content patch, not a full blown expansion pack you'd usually buy in the store (like cataclysm etc.).

Or would you pay as a sub for a new WZ, or a new planet? Something that in all other games you get for the monthly subscription fee?

 

I for one wouldn't.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Twor

[TUXs]

All content you had access to you still have access too, if that is not true then what was taken away?

 

*as long as you pay your mandated monthly fee.

 

I see nothing wrong with what they're saying with this...your arguing a flawed point. Right now, if I pay nothing, I have access to NOTHING! With F2p, I'll still be able to log in and chat and do random leveling.

[Blackardin]

There'll be no mat selling market either if there litterally is no crafting market at all.

 

You will have to demonstrate this to be a truism because all indication argues to the contrary.

[Goretzu]

Where your argument falls apart is that, as of right now, before F2P, you still MUST pay your $15 a month to access EVERYTHING/ANYTHING.

 

Asking the same once the game goes F2P, doesn't mean you're being charged twice...the deal is actually better than what you originally bought...not that I'm for F2P, I'm not...but your argument is full of holes.

 

Except that's exactly what they did in LOTRO, once it went F2P you suddenly didn't lose access to most of the content you had access too before.

 

New accounts had to buy all that, of course.

 

Bioware EA is basically treating accounts that bought the game on release, paid 12 months of subs (by F2P) as exactly the same as accounts that will be created on Nov 1st (or whenever).

 

Plus if you buy the Makeb adventure pack as a paying sub under the new F2P rules, do you then keep full access to it if you go F2P? Or do you get limited access to it, just like you do the orginal content you bought with the orginal boxed game? Again having to buy it again to use it with F2P.

 

New books were free for subs in LOTRO as well. Expansion packs not, but the content patches following f2p didn't cost us subscribers a single Turbine point. You had full access to everything. As it should be.

 

Indeed.

[Master-Nala]

As has been stated by many others, I feel betrayed as a longtime (December) subscriber if I'm asked to fork over money for Makeb.

 

I suspect it will be like DCUO and City of Heroes and others. Subscribers will get all the new story for free, but it will be sold in packs for F2P players.

[Goretzu]

Crafting is dead with F2P. That's what happens in every F2P game. There's no company stupid enough to allow players to craft things they can sell. If you're playing this game for crafting, find another game.

There's dead and there dead though.

 

 

*as long as you pay your mandated monthly fee.

 

I see nothing wrong with what they're saying with this...your arguing a flawed point. Right now, if I pay nothing, I have access to NOTHING! With F2p, I'll still be able to log in and chat and do random leveling.

 

And yet with LOTRO when it went F2P you still had full access to SoA and MoM and SoM (if you had already bought them). Using the SWTOR model you'd only have had limited access to the majority of them, and no access to some parts of them.

 

 

 

And again going back to Makeb; you buy it under the new F2P rules, you have a sub and obivously full access to what you bought. Now you let your sub drop to a F2P account......... do you have full access to the Makeb adventure pack you bought? Or do you only have limited access (and possibly no access to parts) unless you buy it again in the cashshop to unlock those parts for a F2P account?

[Blackardin]

Because that's not what I'm saying.

 

When LOTRO went F2P all the stuff people had access too they kept access too (they didn't suddenly have limited access to SoA or MoM or SoM content).

 

There was no sub-option in that game, correct? Therefore there would be no reason for them not to do so. This game has two options. What it seems that you are trying to do here is to drop to the FTP model and still maintain everything that you had with your subscription.

 

You are not being charged twice if you do so. What you are attempting to do here is to double dip without regard to the consequences left to those that maintain their sub and mask your argument under the guise of "being charged twice". If that is the intent, then it is very twisted logic.