Can any MMO really succeed today?

[Kalfear]

I can't comment to omuch on the Secret World, but the reason why I had no interest in it was because the game didn't look very appealing, animation were clunky and so was combat.

 

For an MMO to succeed it has to have fluid game play that is first and foremost and it's one of the things WoW has done so well. While other games including this one fell short.

 

Same, I saw Secret world early las year and signed up for the monthly newsletter and at first the game sounded very innovative and interesting but as it grew the first thing I noticed (not most important thing but the first thing anyone will see) is the graphics looked TERRIBLE.

 

If you cant at least match RIFT graphics going forward, your already behind the 8 ball

But then the content also started to sound...bland

 

One newsletter that really turned me off is the game really started to sound like "us vrs Zombies". What happened to the high intrige 3 factions, secret organizations that were the building blocks of the early Secret World newsletters.

 

Me, I have zero interest in fighting zombies everywhere

 

In the end the game lost all its original appeal to me that I wasnt interested in the title at all for the final 6 months or so.

 

Good early concept that seems to got watered down and minimalized.

 

If the game had stayed SMART, DETAILED, WELL DESIGNED, and made us think and EARN our advancement, I would have given it a chance.

 

But thats not the final product they advertised so I passed on that game.

[Moatcarp]

The problem is that MMO gamers don't know what they want. One second, they want something similar to WoW. Then when that product comes out, they don't buy it or dont subscribe and complain they want something different from WoW. Then when that product comes out, they don't buy it or dont subscribe and complain they want something familiar and that they are used to... like WoW.

 

I think developers need to go back to the attitude of the early days of MMOs, like SOE with EverQuest and instead of listening to what gamers want, they need to tell them what they want and that they will like it.

 

Because quite frankly, MMO gamers have no idea what they want.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Moatcarp

[Vellem]

Stopped reading there, talk as slow as you normally do (dont worry, practice will help the words form faster for you)

 

I tried to speak facts to you

Tried to explain how this genre works

Tried to show you WOW didnt create, found, evolve this genre

 

You are one of the new brand

 

"I played WOW, it must be the best and first and greatest"

Let me guess, you dont think the American Civil war happened either because you were not alive to see it

 

Hate kids with no respect for what came before them and you clearly fit the bill so im done.

 

You have no clue what your speaking about.

 

I gave you the FACTS, rest is up to you.

 

Long and short is MMORPGs can work and the subscription MMORPG can work when Developers stop targetting YOUR GENERATION of instant gratification meme's and start putting quality before quantity.

 

When they start understanding that one paying long term customer is better then 10 whiny short term customers, they will succeed.

 

Or as others have said, stop coping WOW and stop pandering to its spoiled customer base of instant gratification meme's.

 

Let me guess, you disagree (rolls eyes, of course you do, your not that special little flower in the answer who is more important then everyone else....tough).

 

FACT, I cant explain it all any more clear for you and yours.

FACT, You should not be the target audience outside of WOW because you have no respect for anything but WOW (no matter if it came before or after the Golden Archs of MMORPGs)

FACT, you can argue a fact all you want, its still a FACT. YOU dont get to redefine its meaning

FACT, Have a nice day and enjoy your weekend, in time and with experience you will come to understand the MMORPG genre and how ALL THE GAME AND TITLES (and not just WOW) influenced and developed the genre. Till then, best to let the adults speak.

 

Of course you stopped reading otherwise you would've saw the part where I mentioned that I played EQ for five years before WoW. In the post before the one you didn't read.

 

So yeah, I'm done with you as you have no reading comprehension and don't know fact from fiction or your head from your behind either apparently.

 

Keep selectively reading so you can ignore when you are proven wrong. Typing FACT in capitol letters doesn't make you opinion a fact no matter how much you want it to be. But keep living in your own little world and talking out of the hole you sit on. It obviously is working out great for you.

 

Good day to you sir.

[BeenThere]

MMO's need better graphics , good storylines , ramdom generated Dungeons , flash points, quests...what have you , the need real time action combat that is immersive with dodge, rolls , jumping. Awesome skills, weapons , armor.....mounts, ships what have you. They need big open worlds to explore , seas, space what ever.... Have crafting like EQ2 , and SWG , fishing ,hunting ,gathering, mining, collecting with ramdom epic rewards, treasure hunting...ramdom crafting , mix 2 , or more things together ,and see what you get. It needs to be a mix of great single player rpgs like Dungeon Siege with being able to hire npc to form a group to get the quest done , and go through dungeons .....make it a sand box open world rpg in a mmo world , have player housing, and cities like SWG...have farming like Harvest Moon let your characters interact more with the npc.... Have special events have open worlds like Skyrim , Fallout 3, SWG ,you see it you can go there ,jump, climb it , swim, and dive in it , or fly up to it. Otherwise you will end up with a run to the end game ego race for epic equipment with boring combat, and skills that don't matter, and are weak ....with Boss mobs that are just a grind fest to see if you can out last them to get to the goodie basket for the little epic loot drop you can't use ....in dungeons that all look the same with repetitive game play ...the grindfest that most mmo's become .

 

What will keep a mmo fresh is options in character creation, game play , support for solo , group, and guilds....more contection to npc in the mmo world....GW2 does have some of these features ...will be interesting if it can hold the mmo players for more then a year.

[deucexmachina]

tl;dr, sorry

 

Yes, there just won't be a Mega type take off that Blizz experienced back at that right moment at that right time.

Even they are suffering, just they have larger numbers than most still so it seems less noticeable.

 

Players are judging these games, old and new alike, on what they perceive should be in a game that they believe they want. It just won't happen. They will never be satisfied as no new game comes out polished with all the bells and whistles they think they want and do not give the game a chance.

 

Short attention spans and entitlement attitudes from the player base does not help any MMO in terms of "they suck."

 

A game can not make content faster than the players can go through and play it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PgYuJczGv8o

5:53 and on is a little bit more of interest for most, I figure. enjoy

[jarjarloves]

It just seems like any MMO that comes out today eventually loses so many of their subscriptions and popularity from when it first comes out. I get the impression that this is the worst genre to make a game for. It seems impossible to satisfy today's MMO players. I blame WoW for this. WoW came out during a time when MMO competition wasn't as fierce, and a lot of MMO concepts hadn't been established yet. Eventually it took off to massive popularity. As time went on, they continually dumbed the game down more and more, and continually added features. Somehow it still remains the most popular MMO.

 

Every MMO that has launched since WoW has not seemed to fare that well, with the best doing "ok" in the market. It is a cycle that I have seen constantly for years. People get all excited about a new MMO coming out. They set their expectations impossibly high. They expect the MMOs to have everything that WoW has. Thing is WoW has had so much time to add these features, and people have stuck with that game all this time. It seems MMO players today are not willing to do that. They want a ridiculous amount of features in their MMO and they want it NOW. So people always say the next MMO will kill WoW, and when it doesn't have this ridiculous amount of features that they expected, they quit the game. Then the cycle continues and people say the next MMO will be the one to "kill WoW" and then they are disappointed once more.

 

I guess my main question is... Is there even any point to making an MMO in today's market? Is there any profit in it? Do you really think GW2 will do any better than SWToR, or Rift, or the other MMOs that have come out since WoW? IMO this game seems to be dying, but can any MMO besides WoW really thrive in today's market? I assure you, GW2 will not be the WoW killer or the end all be all to MMOs. I feel that the problem lies with the market and not the games. The MMO crowd is now impossible to satisfy, impossible to satiate. It's not only this game that is dying, it is the genre itself.

 

you seem to be under the delusion that other MMOs out there aren't making a profit.

 

Now if you are thinking a game needs 11 million subscribers you are wrong.

 

DDO, LotrO, DCUO, EQ, EQ2, Rift, Aion, and many others are still around making a profit so yes many mmos can succeed.

[belizar]

you seem to be under the delusion that other MMOs out there aren't making a profit.

 

Now if you are thinking a game needs 11 million subscribers you are wrong.

 

DDO, LotrO, DCUO, EQ, EQ2, Rift, Aion, and many others are still around making a profit so yes many mmos can succeed.

 

they dont have mr lucas asking for cash for using the sw name tho or the VO "actors"

[Caeliux]

Also dont forget the MMO players of today ad thier crying about wanting something other than WoW....then crying when a product isnt more like WoW.

 

Ironic fact of that is that is exactly the population anymore when it comes to the crowd playing mmo's. Things that make a mmo in the past successful don't work anymore for the plain fact that this generation of mmo gamers want instant gratification or nothing.

 

Little after TBC Warcraft a infection of greed and ego began to drive these gamers into a state of epeen glory, and games started to cater to crybaby crys for nerfs and imperfection gripes.

 

A man that has been playing since EQ can sit here and tell you all of the BS we see on the forums and all the attention the complaining does one thing, and that is ruin games.

 

I have seen so many mmo's and attempts to make a great game fall between the cracks due to high in demand of perfection, and the bottom line is no game will be perfect ever.

 

Especially SWTOR its first year.

[discosoc]

WOW was a marketing showcase

WOW was also a watered down MMO on training wheels (I didnt create that tagline btw, if you have been around as long as you claim, then you saw multiple sources using that tag line during the beta and at release for WOW. If you didnt, then you didnt pay half as much attention as you claim to the genre. WOW was not well received at beta and at launch. It was well received after a brilliant advertising campaign started, after Mila Kunis name dropped the game on Letterman (along with other celebrities that clearly never played the game and were being paid to advertise via social media) and yes after South Park made it famous.

 

I'm getting tired of this meme going around about WoW being a failure until Blizzard started paying celebs to talk about it. The fact is, WoW had 2 million subs 6 months after release, and kept growing at that pace until finally hitting 10+ million. The South Park episode didn't air until 3 years later, and the first TV commercial didn't air until about the same time. The first one with a celebrity wasn't until something like 2011, with Chuck Norris, to the best of my memory.

 

Anyway, you can complain about the game all you want, but your arguments of it being nothing more than a failed MMO until Blizzard somehow purchased their way to the top are pretty off base.

[Aricus]

you seem to be under the delusion that other MMOs out there aren't making a profit.

 

Now if you are thinking a game needs 11 million subscribers you are wrong.

 

DDO, LotrO, DCUO, EQ, EQ2, Rift, Aion, and many others are still around making a profit so yes many mmos can succeed.

 

The questions is though, how much profits are they making.

[Darth-Rammstein]

I think that world of warcraft makes it very difficult for new mmo's to get their feet off the ground. The majority of gamers look at the new mmo's that come out and decide that they are just a less polished less established version of wow and just stick to the game they've already dedicated so much time into. Of course the only thing killing wow now is time, it's starting to really show its age.

[TKMaster]

I'm getting tired of this meme going around about WoW being a failure until Blizzard started paying celebs to talk about it. The fact is, WoW had 2 million subs 6 months after release, and kept growing at that pace until finally hitting 10+ million. The South Park episode didn't air until 3 years later, and the first TV commercial didn't air until about the same time. The first one with a celebrity wasn't until something like 2011, with Chuck Norris, to the best of my memory.

 

Anyway, you can complain about the game all you want, but your arguments of it being nothing more than a failed MMO until Blizzard somehow purchased their way to the top are pretty off base.

 

Your "facts" are made up tripe tbh.

 

WoW subs were not 2 million 6 months after launch, "Make love, not Warcraft" aired just 1 year after launch, And the 1st celeb WoW advertisment was in 2008.......

[Tatami]

Yes, a subscription based MMO can and will succeed today, but it needs certain things to succeed. It needs a decent team working on it. It needs to have updates, scheduled updates, regular updates once a month, never more than 3 months apart. It needs a dev team that will talk to, and listen to it's playerbase they need to be vigilant about bugs and game balance.

 

But, and people will argue with me about this... I think most new MMO's that have been released lately are scams. They're hyped to hell, commercials, ads everything to get as MANY box sales as they can possibly get, a large sub base... but then... Support falls through. Updates slow then cease. Bugs are left in the game for months at a time, playerbase crying for game balance updates go unheard, they let the game slowly die so they can clean up by converting it to free to play and make even more money than they would stand to make if it was a pure subscription model.

I really hope that this isn't going to be a common thing from now on in all future MMO's but I have watched several MMOs do the exact same thing lately. It's horrible.

[Aricus]

Your "facts" are made up tripe tbh.

 

WoW subs were not 2 million 6 months after launch, "Make love, not Warcraft" aired just 1 year after launch, And the 1st celeb WoW advertisment was in 2008.......

 

Actually WoW did have 2 mill subs at 6 months.

 

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

[BeenThere]

MMO's will succeed , but not everyone will be playing the same mmo , you find the one that fits your game play style, and what game theme you like. Then you support it until they pull the plug on it , that is how it goes you can put your input in as much as you want , complain....share your thoughts ...but when they pull the plug game over. MMO's are changing so are those who play them ......so is the ability of players to support them ....these times they are a changing. For me I will play the F2P SWTOR because this is my only KOTOR 3 that Bioware will give me for now. Other then GW2 .....I'm through with mmo's unless they are F2P....not worth the subscription to play...or the time invested.....with out more options in game play , and role playing in the game. Most mmo's have become like FPS games racing to have the best, the most , the highest level ego gaming. The adventure , exploring , crafting that has any effect in the game is gone in most mmo's ..the options have been cut out.

MMO's players have become like a bunch of mice running in a maze to get through the maze in the fastest time to get that rare chunk of cheese at the exit of the maze....so they flash it in front of everyone else ...until the others get a chunk of cheese. Then they complain that there is no new cheese to race for....WOW is a prime example of this type of mmo game play

[TKMaster]

Actually WoW did have 2 mill subs at 6 months.

 

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

 

Never even heard of that WoW fan site before.

[Emeda]

Actually WoW did have 2 mill subs at 6 months.

 

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

 

I was going to say that he would come back calling that site made up but I guess it was too late.

 

That site had that stuff made up years ago just to stick it to SWTOR.

 

Remember it had SWG at about 300k for the first two years also and its a proven fact that doesnt need any real evidence from the fanboys that SWG was losing 10k subs a month and after 2 years should have only had 50 or 80k.

 

Again its a WoW, SWG fansite that again wanted to stick it to SWTOR way before SWTOR was started.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Emeda

[Andryah]

MMO's players have become like a bunch of mice running in a maze to get through the maze in the fastest time to get that rare chunk of cheese at the exit of the maze....so they flash it in front of everyone else ...until the others get a chunk of cheese. Then they complain that there is no new cheese to race for....WOW is a prime example of this type of mmo game play

 

Indeed. In fact, the MMO player base is now it's own self-fulfilling prophecy in the context of MMOs. Even when an MMO actually breaks new ground and moves in new directions (meeting many demands expressed by the player base), the player base crys and demands it be more like WoW. Evidence: TSW right now. Though that game has enough loyal following to do well after the rats move on to the next piece of MMO cheeze. It won't be a large MMO, but it will very likely be a successful medium size niche MMO.

[Fermian]

Imo it's all about the expectations and how a game will adapt to a change of the playerbase.

 

You can't release a MMO and expect more then 300k subs after one year, even if you sell a lot more at release. So far all MMO I played failed at adapting to the decease of subs which resulted in empty servers and a even bigger decrease. Look at ToR, adding some servers before release was np but the merges were a bit too late.

[boxfetish]

Your "facts" are made up tripe tbh.

 

WoW subs were not 2 million 6 months after launch, "Make love, not Warcraft" aired just 1 year after launch, And the 1st celeb WoW advertisment was in 2008.......

 

WoW was at 2 million that quickly.

 

Make love, not warcraft was almost 2 years after launch. WoW already had 7 million subs by then.

 

The celebrity ads were 4 years after launch and WoW already had well over 10 million subs.

 

In short, you're clueless. Southpark and the celebrity ads came after the game was already a huge success.

[BeenThere]

I would like to see the roleplaying be put back in to mmorpg's , where players aren't stepping all over each other to get that chunk of cheese. I have had great fun in grouping , and in guilds , also soloing in COH, SWG, Earth and Beyond, and WOW. Just hard to find that same mmo magic anymore .......somehow mmo's start to break down after a yaer , sooner now days. WOW had it's big expansions that would draw players back for another round of crack....but even that is fading fast. SWG just got gutted ....Earth and Beyond just had the plug pulled. EVE is evolving into bigger game ...but hard to jump into that game now. That is the problem with mmo's they are like pyramiding schemes, you have in the begining of the game launch your small amount of high leveled players ...getting all the benifits not wanting anything to do with the large amount of lower leveled players. Now once the lower areas have been leveled they become ghost towns . Now you have your High leveled players complaining about no end game content to all the low , and mid leveled players ...who think why am I playing this game...then begins the begining of the end. If every player was at the same level cap , had the same equipment then the game would be supported. But when someone looks at your equipment and it is not all epic you are not going to be apart of that group , or raid....even in the guilds ...the higher level players do stuff together the lower level players are on their own ...until they can catch up. MMO's end up being hurry up ,and catch up chasing this idea that you will be doing this end game content with this guild ...not happening unless you are at the same level with epic equipment .....by that time the higher level players are on to new content racing to level again....so where is the role playing it is gone ...it is PVP ...FPS ...race to level...to have the biggest , best weapon to kill anything that moves....the only one having fun is the one with the big weapon, and they become bored like level 50's going back down to level one area. That;s why mmo's are failing no roleplaying.

[Tiaa]

I think MMOs can succeed.

 

And there is nothing wrong with F2P...But in SWTORs case, it's only going F2P to turn a profit.

 

I believe MMOS can succeed and don't believe Smedley (or whatever his name is) when he keeps ranting about how the market is heading to "Free 2 Play". Smedley's support of SWTOR going free 2 play means very little but trying to boost is own ego. Yes, the market is heading F2P. Especially when you are developing terrible, unimaginative games that can't even hold the die hard fans of the IP.

 

I feel it's just that developers can't produce the amount of content needed to justify a box fee+$15 a month with a cash shop in some cases (Champions Online, STO...SWTOR...almost all MMOs now actually).

 

Doing things the way Bioware did should not even be taken serious.

 

Bioware flopped hard on this game from the very start.

 

This game has been seriously lacking in every department that makes a MMO an MMO. You had this team promising, lying, back-tracking statements and acting like there is some big secret.But worst of all: They just didn't listen. And it was to things WE shouldn't have even had to tell them (See Ilum patch)...

 

Couple quodlibets... Obsessions with subscriber numbers and lack of real social aspects.

 

SWTOR should be an example for future developers of MMOs of what NOT to do.

 

Most of the community that had been through many other MMOS, observe and just know BS when we see and hear it... knew this was coming for SWTOR eventually.

 

All the signs were there.

 

And there is a differece between a game launching B2P and one that is turning F2P.

 

F2P is failure. It's failure of expectations that were not met.

 

And this game will continue to fail as long as Bioware keeps doing what it's been doing.

 

Nothing.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Tiaa

[BeenThere]

I played the beta ...had a funny feeling I shouldn't get this game , but there was no KOTOR 3 in the future...and I thought from the sounds of what they had plan for the future for this game that my concerns would be silenced....should have listen to my gut feeling...instead I drank the Kool Aid...this is the last mmo I will ever pay a subscription to those days are over. F2P from now on , and unless they are open world sandbox rpg's forget about......I will play SWTOR F2P just to get my nickels worth of entertainment .

[AllanGand]

the problem is everyone tries to make an experience like WoW because it was successful. My question to the developers of these games is "why would i leave all my WoW characters to jump to your game that offers the same type of gameplay?"

 

I'm not sure on whether GW2 will succeed, but it's something different. To me GW2 and TSW play different from WoW, and that is what I am looking for as a gamer. I spent enough time playing WoW and its copies, it's time for something slightly new and that's what GW and TSW bring.

[BeenThere]

I think with all the different games out now days ....great RPGs like Skyrim, Fallout 3, and others so many mmo's ...all the console games like GTA4 ...action games , RTS games , FPS games have a lot to choose from when it comes to gaming anymore all of it is changing gameplay , and game types ..crossover game play styles....the whole game industry is changing , and so are gamers , and what they want to play.