Hitting 50 makes me want to quit

[Segundus]

This is not a suggestion post, so don't place it there. It's a *** is going on with the future of this game post. I've been a fanboy of this game but just recently started aqcuiring 50s. And what I've found out is the game suddenly stops. I mostly PVP so I know I am missing a whole lot, but it's what I enjoy. The 10-49 bracket was an absolute blast and I had fun every single match. But at 50... BLAH. The second you enter your first 50 match, ROFLSTOMPED. Even with crappy Recruit gear on. So you start your painful grind for a few measley WZ commendations per match, but you encounter endless ranked war heroes and conquerors in gear a billion time better than your own.

 

I have literally sat behind a scoundrel who didn't run and just went to town dpsing him and I couldn't make his HP budge. And in the 10-49 bracket I was always top dps. There was no one else healing him either. He would just throw on a heal or two and be back at full health. It's just ridiculous when it comes to the massive gap between new 50's and geared 50's. I'm sorry, but PVPing should be fun but when you hit 50 it's just not. Not to mention all the jerks who talk crap to you and laugh/spit when you can't take them down but you keep trying.

 

It's just demeaning and demoralizing. I know people say HANG IN THERE but really why should a player suffer this much? It seems like so many other games do PVP better, so why am I even wasting my time? There is no other way to get WZ commendations either. At least give us some other means to grind out some WZ comms when the queues aren't popping late at night or we just get tired of dealing with jerks, organized teams, and players who can 2-shot you.

 

Tell me again, why can't we have PVP SPACE BATTLES? I was really hoping for something reminiscent of Battlefront II when I got this game, but instead I got StarFox space battles on rails. Once you finish the objectives you can literally walk away and not touch the controls and still win the mission. Come on Bioware, I've got two accounts with you, pre-ordered the game in July 2011, and been on your side every step of the way, but I am just worn out and not having fun anymore.

 

Tell me Bioware, why should I keep paying and playing? Give me something to really get excited for! Whatcha got?! By the way, yes I am QQing. If you don't have QQs over some aspect of this game, then you are probably spending all your time trolling the forums instead of playing it.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Segundus

[aurellian]

So you're frustrated with pvp because you can't beat all the people who've been lvl 50 longer than you. You don't like the disparity between yourself and a player who is wearing better gear than you? I would ask you, when you were pvping from lvls 1-49, and you were that lvl 40-49 guy who was just obliterating those lvl 10-20 guys because you had better gear and access to more skills than them, were you upset with the disparity then?

 

If you don't like the gear grind that's one thing. But complaining about a guy who can kill you because he has better equipment than you is pointless. That guy who is wiping the floor with your face was wearing recruit gear at one point in time and he was getting his face smashed in too.

 

Either keep plugging away, perhaps get some people to help you pound those war heroes down, or go play a different game that has pvp you like.

[Segundus]

So you're frustrated with pvp because you can't beat all the people who've been lvl 50 longer than you. You don't like the disparity between yourself and a player who is wearing better gear than you? I would ask you, when you were pvping from lvls 1-49, and you were that lvl 40-49 guy who was just obliterating those lvl 10-20 guys because you had better gear and access to more skills than them, were you upset with the disparity then?

 

If you don't like the gear grind that's one thing. But complaining about a guy who can kill you because he has better equipment than you is pointless. That guy who is wiping the floor with your face was wearing recruit gear at one point in time and he was getting his face smashed in too.

 

Either keep plugging away, perhaps get some people to help you pound those war heroes down, or go play a different game that has pvp you like.

 

But that is just it. There wasn't much if any disparity in the 10-49 PVP range. Everyone got bolstered to level 49 so it just came down to abilities then. It was much more even, much more fair, and thus more fun. But I have leveled so many characters I just don't want to do it anymore. I, myself, scored 17 medals before as a level 11 and was number one DPS and top medals that game. It happens lots of games and I took screenshots of it too. In the 10-49 range it's more about skill and less about gear.

 

I can roll up on a subpar player in the 50's bracket who just happens to be in War Hero gear and not take any damage off him so of course he beats me. That's great that he worked for that gear, but his skill still sucks. And that is where the fun is lost. Games where gearscore outweighs player skill are just not fun. I hear that game TERA or something requires skill because you actually have to aim and what not like a shooter game. Don't get me wrong, I want to 'WANT' to keep playing this game, but the desire is drastically fading away because what was fun while leveling is no longer fun at 50. I thought it was supposed to be the other way around?

[Nippon]

Expertise should not exist in SWTOR full stop. Its ruined PVP, wont be removed from the game at this stage and is half the reason why most people just dont bother with it at all.

 

If it had to be in the game it should only exist on PVP servers, and it should be everywhere, Low level, to End game...

 

On PVE it should not exist at all..

 

PVP is supposed to be about Tactics, Strategy, Fun and Battles. Not a grind for gear in 4 Warzones 10 mins at a time.

 

Hopefully it will be removed..!!

 

Anbimo 1260 Expertise, War Hero, Only ever played PVP on him. Needless to say i dont play him anymore. Its dull boring and yes i face roll players like you, which is again boring.

[Revan-the-knight]

HANG IN THERE!

[snaplemouton]

I was getting first damage with legacy punches as a level 20 trooper with no advanced class and wearing no chest piece in the low level bracket.

 

I agree with this post.

People from level 50 bracket arn't any better then the low level bracket. They just have gear that allow them to kill other people just by using their base attack.

A recruit gear that use his abilities should always win against a war hero gear that spam his base attack. But that isn't the case. Seeing how I can just shot down any recruit gear in 3 shot on my BM GS or how I can kill mostly all BM and under on my full war hero augmented HEALER scoundrel in 5 seconds (or less...)... how is that even fair?

I played with recruit gear on about 4 characters. Even tho I manage to get 3rd or 4th damage on the board, I should have been first seeing how the other people had less then half my BM characters DPS.

 

This game is going the same way Rift is going.

Adding the augments to every pieces of gear was plain stupid. They just bring more and more disparity between stats and a newly level 50 will just stop playing because there is no reason to go die in a warzones. We don't play game to have a second job. We play games to have fun. And this isn't fun.

 

Edit : Expertise is needed because... you PvE heroes wouldn't want the PvP heroes to come in their PvP gear to take your PvE gear. Just the same way we don't want PvE heroes in our PvP games with PvE gear.

Edited August 9, 2012 by snaplemouton

[Segundus]

Expertise should not exist in SWTOR full stop. Its ruined PVP, wont be removed from the game at this stage and is half the reason why most people just dont bother with it at all.

 

If it had to be in the game it should only exist on PVP servers, and it should be everywhere, Low level, to End game...

 

On PVE it should not exist at all..

 

PVP is supposed to be about Tactics, Strategy, Fun and Battles. Not a grind for gear in 4 Warzones 10 mins at a time.

 

Hopefully it will be removed..!!

 

Anbimo 1260 Expertise, War Hero, Only ever played PVP on him. Needless to say i dont play him anymore. Its dull boring and yes i face roll players like you, which is again boring.

 

I agree with this guy. Give gear better stats but remove expertise.

[aeterno]

But that is just it. There wasn't much if any disparity in the 10-49 PVP range. Everyone got bolstered to level 49 so it just came down to abilities then. It was much more even, much more fair, and thus more fun. But I have leveled so many characters I just don't want to do it anymore. I, myself, scored 17 medals before as a level 11 and was number one DPS and top medals that game. It happens lots of games and I took screenshots of it too. In the 10-49 range it's more about skill and less about gear.

 

I can roll up on a subpar player in the 50's bracket who just happens to be in War Hero gear and not take any damage off him so of course he beats me. That's great that he worked for that gear, but his skill still sucks. And that is where the fun is lost. Games where gearscore outweighs player skill are just not fun. I hear that game TERA or something requires skill because you actually have to aim and what not like a shooter game. Don't get me wrong, I want to 'WANT' to keep playing this game, but the desire is drastically fading away because what was fun while leveling is no longer fun at 50. I thought it was supposed to be the other way around?

 

That's just ridicolous. The dozen or so % handicap due to gear is nothing compared to a gutted skillset you're forced to pvp with in the 1-49 bracket.

 

Your skewed perception about ops/smuggler healers comes from that I bet, roflstomping lowbies without the proper tool set. Those at 50 all have that surgical probe thingy thats basically a spammable insta heal that's completley free once they dip below 30% HP. Add the stackable dots and they're indeed hard to kill.

 

However the class is a nightmare to play in pvp till about lvl 33-34 when you get high enough up the skill tree (that is if you pug with people don't know and can't hook up with a dedicated tank that'll babysit you).

 

I'm glad you had fun at all stages of the lowbie bracket with your warrior but believe you me, most scoundrels did not for a long time as they were just fodder.

[Miggzy]

I have felt the same way you have OP and after hitting 50 on a couple toons and suddenly not wanting to pvp anymore I have decided that what I am gonna need to do is eventually transfer some of my characters over to a pvp server for some real open world pvp action. People say there is no open world pvp but that is BS and I also hear there is lots in back hole area and other higher level areas.

 

As for the issue with gear, I think recruit gear does a good job at stopping you from getting blown out of the water and you can be competitive in recruit gear if you just play a little more cautiously.

[Nippon]

Edit : Expertise is needed because... you PvE heroes wouldn't want the PvP heroes to come in their PvP gear to take your PvE gear. Just the same way we don't want PvE heroes in our PvP games with PvE gear.

 

Errr dude, I have Healed Denova SM in full War Hero, and Even KP HM in Battlemaster......

 

Expertise should not be in the game...

 

Its common knowledge that Battle-master is better than Tionese or any Daily rewards. And it is not hard to get. So yes PVPers can get there gear and come do PVE stuff...

 

But that is not the case with PVE to PVP....Recruit gear is like being given Level 45 green gear and being told to Tank EV HM.....It aint gonna happen. Its also common knowledge that PVP relics are BIS for dps and healers in PVE, I got mine in 6 Warzones, to get the best PVE one i have to grind 200 daily comms...

 

Now tell me PVP does not interfere with PVE.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Nippon

[XTREDEN]

Well, the problem with hang in there is that a lot of us have been hanging in there for awhile. Seriously, the 1-49 is pretty cool, but its not that effin cool. BW needs to do something about people who play this game just to pvp in star wars. L50 is like a totally different game and its not built for the 1 hour a night guy who gets off work late and just wants to have fun in pvp or make a dent in the gear grind. I wouldn't have bought the level 50 game.

[Segundus]

I was getting first damage with legacy punches as a level 20 trooper with no advanced class and wearing no chest piece in the low level bracket.

 

I agree with this post.

People from level 50 bracket arn't any better then the low level bracket. They just have gear that allow them to kill other people just by using their base attack.

A recruit gear that use his abilities should always win against a war hero gear that spam his base attack. But that isn't the case. Seeing how I can just shot down any recruit gear in 3 shot on my BM GS or how I can kill mostly all BM and under on my full war hero augmented HEALER scoundrel in 5 seconds (or less...)... how is that even fair?

I played with recruit gear on about 4 characters. Even tho I manage to get 3rd or 4th damage on the board, I should have been first seeing how the other people had less then half my BM characters DPS.

 

This game is going the same way Rift is going.

Adding the augments to every pieces of gear was plain stupid. They just bring more and more disparity between stats and a newly level 50 will just stop playing because there is no reason to go die in a warzones. We don't play game to have a second job. We play games to have fun. And this isn't fun.

 

Edit : Expertise is needed because... you PvE heroes wouldn't want the PvP heroes to come in their PvP gear to take your PvE gear. Just the same way we don't want PvE heroes in our PvP games with PvE gear.

 

And here is another one who COMPLETELY GETS IT! I am glad I voiced my opinion and found out there are others who feel the same way. Usually you post something on the forums and it's a thousand pages of people telling you how much you are QQing, how bad you are, and can they have your stuff.

 

So what I am seeing/feeling is VERY REAL and an obvious problem. The people who it's not a problem to are the ones who just don't care. I don't see how anyone can say they have fun getting ROFLSTOMPED endlessly by epic augmented rated War Heros.

 

EDIT: Oh, and SHAME ON YOU Bioware mods for trying to hide my QQ post in the suggestions forums when it was not even close to a suggestion. We all know the Suggestions forum is where posts go to die. No one looks there, not you, not us, not anyone. Stop trying to hide every post you don't want people to see in there.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Segundus

[Segundus]

Well, the problem with hang in there is that a lot of us have been hanging in there for awhile. Seriously, the 1-49 is pretty cool, but its not that effin cool. BW needs to do something about people who play this game just to pvp in star wars. L50 is like a totally different game and its not built for the 1 hour a night guy who gets off work late and just wants to have fun in pvp or make a dent in the gear grind. I wouldn't have bought the level 50 game.

 

You are exactly right, Sir! I also work a lot and have a family to take care of. Sometimes I just can't get on until really late and by then the queues just aren't popping. I really wish there was an alternate way to grind out WZ comms. Why would people care anyways because a skilled player in all War Hero who PVP'd for it all will still always beat an unskilled player in all War Hero gear who grinded it out on PVE content.

 

Afterall, PVP gear can be used to do PVE content, so why not allow PVE content to get PVP gear? Maybe then we'd have more people getting involved in PVP? I'm sorry but by forcing level 50's to get ROFLSTOMPED in recruit gear for weeks/months until they can get War Hero gear is just going to keep so many people away. Like I said, it's just not fun and therefore lots of people will just not do it at all.

[kodrac]

Remove Expertise. Use the bolstering system (the same system used in the 10-49 bracket) to alleviate the disparity between players in Ops gear vs those without. Done. Now everyone can PvP for fun instead of the gear grind (just like the 10-49 bracket).

 

Or

 

Put the expertise stat on Ops gear and have that stat mean something only when in an Op. Then it (the stat) is meaningless in warzones/open world.

 

Either option would be better than the current *****. I refuse to get on the gear treadmill in order to hop into a "quick and fun" warzone.

[Petnil]

i wish wz were 100% not gear dependant. everyone would get just their basic stats + a fixed amount and that´s it.

It would be alot easier to balance pvp and it would all come down to skill when gear is taken out of the equasion.

Why pvp if there´s no reward then ? you might ask.

For fun. It would be more fun to beat a worthy enemy than someone clearly undergeared.

for titles maybe or mounts or pets or adaptive gear or some other fluff.

Bottom line is pvp should not be about gear. It should be about beating the opposite faction. And for me it feels much sweeter to beat someone on my lv than some clearly underpowered newly dinged lv 50.

[Thornsbane]

Some pretty crazy claims in this threads. Things like "Players in WH just spam their base attack, and when they do they win."

This is complete nonsence, are you seriously pretending that people that have played so many warzones to get their WH set just go in now and hit the 1 button over and over? Lol.

 

And "Bolster makes all players in the lvl 10-49 bracket equal."

Are you just ignoring that the lower lvl players have almost no skills and talents yet? My lvl 29 Scoundrel healer doesnt even have a AoE heal yet, and just gets facerolled by all the lvl 40+ players.

 

I just got an alt to 50 and put on the FREE recruit gear, which was way better than what I had for both PVP and pve, and went straight into some WZ's and did fine.

 

And by the time you have done one pvp daily you can almost afford 2 BM pieces.

 

Anyway, have a moan if you want everything made even easier and get everything immediately, but pls dont make silly outlandish claims.

[Banegio]

I think with the exception of a few people, most would agree that there is very little enjoyment in gear grinding.

 

But it is too late to change it now. Many have already got through the pain to grind to WH. So it will be unfair to suddenly remove it.

 

Just hope that BW come up with a better way for players to upgrade their gear at the next tier introduction. Some PVP players don't like to do pve content to upgrade gear and don't want to be disadvantaged (thats why expertise); therefore when pve goes to next tier, there will be new pvp gear tier as well.

 

On the other hand, if you like 10-49 and feel it there is no disparity, you can always roll a new toon and level to lv10 which only takes a couple of hours.

[Banegio]

Also it is fair to think along the line that a fresh lv 50 will do

BOI -> FE -> KUS -> HM FP -> LI -> HM LI...

But don't jump straight into HM LI with green gear.

 

Ranked wz was trying to create some sort of tier and progression in pvp to some extent but it is not running at full speed. I think when cross-server and solo rwz queue comes, there will be enough people to create tiered pvp for progression.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Banegio

[oleost]

i wish wz were 100% not gear dependant. everyone would get just their basic stats + a fixed amount and that´s it.

It would be alot easier to balance pvp and it would all come down to skill when gear is taken out of the equasion.

Why pvp if there´s no reward then ? you might ask.

For fun. It would be more fun to beat a worthy enemy than someone clearly undergeared.

for titles maybe or mounts or pets or adaptive gear or some other fluff.

Bottom line is pvp should not be about gear. It should be about beating the opposite faction. And for me it feels much sweeter to beat someone on my lv than some clearly underpowered newly dinged lv 50.

 

100% Aggre.

 

In a multiplayer game its about getting reward for actually beating the other team fair. Not face-rolling because your going against some newly lvl 50.

 

Played alot of pvp trough 10-49 and loved it.

But after I hit lvl 50 with my second lvl 50 character I dont bother to do pvp anymore, I cant stand getting stumped again, by people with much higher gear than me. The same way I dont think its fun to smash recruit geared ppl with my main.

 

And you should only get rewards for winning the game, like money, speeders, gear(apperance and for doing PVE, so what? I enjoy mainly playing pvp, I should be able to get PVE gear to do some PVE one or two times a week.)

 

And BTW, its a PAIN to switch gear from PVE to PVP just to have yourself 1 or two matches for fun.

Edited August 10, 2012 by oleost

[kevlarto]

Expertise should not exist in SWTOR full stop. Its ruined PVP, wont be removed from the game at this stage and is half the reason why most people just dont bother with it at all.

 

If it had to be in the game it should only exist on PVP servers, and it should be everywhere, Low level, to End game...

 

On PVE it should not exist at all..

 

PVP is supposed to be about Tactics, Strategy, Fun and Battles. Not a grind for gear in 4 Warzones 10 mins at a time.

 

Hopefully it will be removed..!!

 

Anbimo 1260 Expertise, War Hero, Only ever played PVP on him. Needless to say i dont play him anymore. Its dull boring and yes i face roll players like you, which is again boring.

 

I agree, 110%

[bornebol]

I created the thread below that's somewhat related to this:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=518273

 

What I really don't like is disparity in gear. It would be great if everyone wore the same tier of mods flat out, but with just varying set bonuses depending on the "gear shells" you use. This way, PvP is all about skill and not about gear stats.

 

This would eliminate gear grind and would make the barrier to entry less painful and get everyone to enjoy PvP off the bat at 50.

 

But it's all just wishful thinking. All else fails, at least I can experience it in GW2. I love the futuristic/sci-fi/lore of SW though.

[Cymate]

At that point in time, EA will not take any risk losing players again so if you remove expertise everybody should be taken into account.

 

If you remove Exp. then peeps in WH gear will complain that PVE gear now rules. So you remove expertise and:

- Convert all PVP armor stats to Ops top equivalent

- Use Valor ranks to grant new WZ only skills. Everybody likes new skills! yeah a reason to play after 50 ! And you create PVP skills trees with many options (drool).

 

When the new system becomes live, the players that have invested in PVP grind get a nice batch of new skills, so they don't feel cheated.

 

At the end you'd get a more harmonious and interesting end game.

 

Not a suggestion, just sayin'

 

Btw I support the OP and all that want a better game.

[Kashley]

Ugh cap level PvP in this game makes me want to vomit. It has so many issues.

 

1) Expertise is awful. It gives too overwhelming a boost between players who have grinded and fresh fifties. In essence gear trumps skill in a lot of cases and that makes PvP... Less then enjoyable.

 

2) The grind for War Hero gear is unreal. Especially considering you have to do the same 4 maps over and over and over with no alternative way to grind comms. (World PvP could have alleviated the monotomy of this grind, but we saw how well Gabe and 'crew' handled that debacle.)

 

3) Class imbalance. Need I say more? Compare an Operative healer to a merc... Survivability between the two classes is polar opposites. Terrible, awful, cant believe the desparity between some classes compared to others. Especially when the idea was that "Every tree will be viable," was one of the things BioWare talked about prior to launch.

 

4) If we are going to be forced into using gear with a 'PvP Stat' then warzones need a way to seperate people by gear levels. Too often do I see partial premades who dont have enough friends on for ranked roll into reg warzones and dominate less geared people for ***** and giggles. When your 14k hp buffed staring at a guy with 21k continually camping you out the spawn area the desire to /ragequit becomes almost unavoidable. (Which also punishes the unlucky fool who will take your spot in a losing warzone.)

 

Overall the games PvP is clunky, terribly thought out, and trash in my humble opinion.

[Tiaa]

Expertise should not exist in SWTOR full stop. Its ruined PVP, wont be removed from the game at this stage and is half the reason why most people just dont bother with it at all.

 

.

 

This is how I feel and why I rarely PvP on SWTOR.

 

I'm all for "getting gear the way you want" but not for "PvP talents" or "PvP stats"

[SithEater]

What are you people smoking?

 

TONS of people do pvp according BWs own metrics. LIke way more people do pvp on a daily basis that run raids or FPs. Don't believe me go back and watch the guild summit footage. So this idea that "ya 15 people replied to my post so therefore most people agree with me" is ludicrous.

 

Secondly what the **** do you think is going to happen if they do away with expertise and you roll into a WZ with Columi gear on your 18k health toon and run into a 27k Campaign geared Shadow tank? You are going to get roflstomped. Forget the body bag and grab a mop.

 

You know what the practical application of removing Expertise gear would be? Instead of doing pvp to get better gear you gotta now find a guild running high end OPs and run weeks and weeks to get your Campaign gear to now be able to compete in battlegrounds. Thats right instead of running PVP to get better in PVP you now have to run PVE to get better in PVP. This does not stand to even to broadest definitions of reason.

 

Now I know some of the I smoke my breakfast folks are going to say..."so give out blah blah tokens to get get blah blah gear and make it all fair". Ok so now grp A runs headlong into a OP over and over getting stomped to finally beat the best of the bosses to get the best of the gear so they can have the same gear as grp B who simply did pvp over and over that rewards you win or lose. Fair?

 

Expertise is there for a reason like it or not.