Remove gear stats from PvP please.

[Roiz]

After looking at London Olympics games, there fair play dominate, I started to think why we cannot have fair play in SWTOR PvP.

 

SWTOR PvP is currently discrimination based on gear, gear give some players ridiculous handicap whilst others players has serious disadvantage. All players need the same stats in PvP, it should be no unfair advantage even for 1% more dmg or healing.

 

We need gear stats does not affect player vs player performance. No matter what gear you have damage and healing in player vs player combat should be calculated on static coefficients without taking gear stats. Gear stats can affect pve only, but as soon player involves into pvp combat in open world or warzones damage need to be calculated without taking gear into an account.

 

Another major improvement we need is improvement of bolster system. Any player entered warzone at level below 50 should automatically increase its level to 50 with all class abilities available. We need the same queue poll for all levels from level 10 to level 50 where all player of the same class no matter of level has ABSOLUTELY the same HP, damage and healing with no discrimination based on level and gear.

 

Actually BW has a choice move this game forward and make it as a standart for e-sports or loose all its PvP population to Guild Wars 2 and other games where people compete on fair basis.

[Brool]

a) I would stop pvp'ing if everything was the same. I dont want my sorc to have the same healing/dmg/health as a tank. It doesnt make sense to me.

 

b) Stop making broad generalizations including people that dont feel the same way as you. You may leave for gw2, but I wont and a lot of people I know and pvp with wont.

 

c) Not every game is made for every gamer. Sounds like this game isnt made for you. I am sure you know where the gw2 forums are Im sure it would be more beneficial to all of us if you headed that way and started getting to know that community.

 

d) I dont want to pvp in sub 50 bracket where everyone is automatically scaled to level 50. Then it wouldn't be sub 50 pvp.

 

Face it. Everyone is welcome to an opinion, and I encourage that. I do frown apon people like yourself stating things as fact like everyone feels that way when it is far far far far far from the truth. I do not agree with/nor support a single idea in you're post.

 

Thank you and have a good day.

 

edit - If you think everything is "fair" in the olympics then you obviously are not watching the whole thing. You think Team USA basketball men or womens is "fair" and "balanced" when playing against other teams from other countries?

 

edit 2 - e-sports. That would be fps games, not mmo games with pvp in them. Go play CoD or Halo for that.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Brool

[Jagil]

Another lazy player couldn't be bothered gear grinding and would rather complain than do the work. Power progression is the number 1 feature that keeps people playing MMO's.

 

Without it, people would simply play until they reach 50 .... have no other incentive other than winning matches "yay...big deal!" then leave.

 

Do your time, grind for your fully optimized WH gear and enjoy the little release of endorphins each time you get a new piece. Once everyone is fully geared, you'll have your dream of being equally geared with everyone else and gear being irrelevant.

[BambulaGTS]

One does not simply goes to Olympics without best national trainers, best national sport doctors (and drugs), best training process.

 

The same goes in swtor, one does not simply go to rwz without best gear, team and consumables.

 

Normal wzs are like normal sports:

 

In RL all people have different organisms and natural "gifts" that gives advantage for one person for another. But it does not guarantee victory, cause there are skill and force of will involved.

 

In swtor all people have different gear and buffs that gives advantage, but, again, it does not guarantee victory cause there are skill, latency, lag, reaction time etc. involved.

Edited August 8, 2012 by BambulaGTS

[HaxxorMcleet]

It's the endless debate of vertical vs horizontal progression.

 

SWTOR ahs vertical progression where you need to get the new gear to compete at the higest level and then when you have the gear you need to be better than the other people with the same gear to beat them. Gear is seen as a reward for time and effort put in to WZ.

 

GW2 has horizontal progresion where you need to be better than the other guy to beat him. Winning is seen as the reward in it self.

 

Some people argue that vertical progression discourages new players since trying to grind the gear when you are a few seasons behind is like running head first in to a wall over and over again. Others will argue that horizontal progression gives no incentive for people to keep playin since thhey get no reward.

 

You can't say one point of view is more correct than the other. It all boils down to what your personal preference is, which is why I am leaving for GW2 as I don't care about the gear but simply care about winning a WZ. Others play because they like getting new things for their character after putting a lot of time in to the game. SWTOR is aimed at the latter group, so if you aren't one of them you should just not play it.

 

Bioware have chosen to make a game based on vertical progression and that is not going to change, so i think people should stop crying out for that to change and instead focus on what needs to be canged within the chosen system to make it work optimally.

 

WOW gets around being based on vertical progression by releasing expansions every so often and effectivly wiping the slate clean giving new players a chance to gear up alongside the old players. Thus to some extent combining the two styles, and I'm guessing SWTOR will be doing the same at some point.

 

Long story shor: If you want a different type of progression system you should play a different game since it will not change.

[Roiz]

a) I would stop pvp'ing if everything was the same. I dont want my sorc to have the same healing/dmg/health as a tank. It doesnt make sense to me.

 

I think we have some slight misunderstanding. I am talking about the same stats for all players of the same class. I mean all sorc and sages can have the same stats in PvP but guards have its own stat set.

[Krystaf]

I do frown apon people like yourself stating things as fact like everyone feels that way when it is far far far far far from the truth.

 

edit 2 - e-sports. That would be fps games, not mmo games with pvp in them. Go play CoD or Halo for that.

 

Way to contradict yourself. I don't have time to browse Digital Culture and Game Studies literature right now so wikipedia will have to do:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_sports

[Roiz]

One does not simply goes to Olympics without best national trainers, best national sport doctors (and drugs), best training process.

You can have trainers, friends doctors or anything you like but when athletes goes into competition they have equal equipment. In football they have same boots, in box they have the same gloves. There are standards on sport equipment if you don't meet them you will never be qualified, if you deliberately violate standard on sport equipment you 'll be disqualified.

 

Let's say one boxer put a piece of metal inside his gloves to give advantage over other boxers, it's a typical example of cheating. So you support cheating, right?

[dronepilot]

Not another "can we have PVP with even gear please" thread. Obviously people who make threads like this, don't like the idea of any grind for gear, in any game, and really shouldn't play PVP WZ's OR play raids, if they don't like the idea of gear progression. Perhaps you don't even care for the people who spent thousands of hours of their lives by now, doing such things, and we should be happy to let everything we worked to gain from the game, be waisted and go to nothing.

 

you CANT have War zones with out gear progression and Experience in your gear, why ??! - because if expertise and PVP gear did not exist, you would have people in raid gear dominating PVP, and now, you will then be asking for raid gear to be disallowed too in PVP WZ because its some thing else some one has that you haven't and you don't want to work for.

 

I am sorry you don't have enough hours in your day because of your job, and your family, to play this at the level other people do, but it really is mud pie, its just going to take you a while to progress, if you want to stick to it, its some thing only you can decide.

 

People play at different levels and there are always better geared and skilled players than others, removing gear, actually doesn't solve anything, and will only just buff other players anyway who already have 'better' PVE gear than others. So sorry no, it never will be an even or 'fair' playing field.

 

My two cents !

[Brool]

Way to contradict yourself. I don't have time to browse Digital Culture and Game Studies literature right now so wikipedia will have to do:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_sports

 

From my time playing in e-sports there were no mmo's listed or played at any of the tourneys which is why I stated that. That being said.

 

http://thecpl.com/the-cpl-heritage/ That started e-sports

 

http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/home Thats the current standard for e-sports

 

Notice not a single mmo is listed in those games. wiki might state mmo's but the people that pay you to play dont pay people to play the mmos.

[Roiz]

Another lazy player couldn't be bothered gear grinding and would rather complain than do the work. Power progression is the number 1 feature that keeps people playing MMO's.

 

Without it, people would simply play until they reach 50 .... have no other incentive other than winning matches "yay...big deal!" then leave.

 

Do your time, grind for your fully optimized WH gear and enjoy the little release of endorphins each time you get a new piece. Once everyone is fully geared, you'll have your dream of being equally geared with everyone else and gear being irrelevant.

 

Yes I bother gear grind and leveling. I want to play all classes in rated on competitive level without need to level them and grind WH gear to be competitive. Yes I want to play class in rated depending on my mood.

 

Currently we have a discrimination based on gear and I am seriously upset what many people support this discrimination. What is the point at PvP at all if one player of the same class and build can kill another in 4 shot whilst second player need to do 8 shots for the same result. It is RACISM, stop it.

[Sharee]

One of the major features of an MMO is the ability to continually improve your character.

 

Take that away, and you end up with counterstrike, where every player has access to exactly the same equipment and the only thing determining the outcome is player skill.

 

There is nothing wrong with counterstrike. But i want to play an MMO.

[Brool]

Yes I bother gear grind and leveling. I want to play all classes in rated on competitive level without need to level them and grind WH gear to be competitive. Yes I want to play class in rated depending on my mood.

 

Currently we have a discrimination based on gear and I am seriously upset what many people support this discrimination. What is the point at PvP at all if one player of the same class and build can kill another in 4 shot whilst second player need to do 8 shots for the same result. It is RACISM, stop it.

 

rac·ism audio (rszm) KEY

 

NOUN:

 

The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

 

You sir, are way off base. If you want to bring "all" the classes dependin on you're mood into rates then spend "all" the time required to level and gear up "all" the classes. Otherwise go play gw2.

[Roiz]

you CANT have War zones with out gear progression and Experience in your gear, why ??! - because if expertise and PVP gear did not exist, you would have people in raid gear dominating PVP, and now, you will then be asking for raid gear to be disallowed too in PVP WZ because its some thing else some one has that you haven't and you don't want to work for.

 

I

 

Forcing people to play pve to have better gear in pvp is the worst thing to do. My proposal is to change damage calculation for PvP the way that gear stats won't affect it. You can wear any gear, pve gear, raid gear, green gear it doesn't matted but your damage on another player would be the same.

[Roiz]

Take that away, and you end up with counterstrike, where every player has access to exactly the same equipment and the only thing determining the outcome is player skill..

 

Yes, this is how this game should be.

[Roiz]

rac·ism audio (rszm)

If you want to bring "all" the classes dependin on you're mood into rates then spend "all" the time required to level and gear up "all" the classes. Otherwise go play gw2.

 

Leveling and gear grinding is boring. PvP is player versus player not player versus gear or player versus level. There is no competitive PvP in this game now. Bioware has the chance to fix it or people leave, they currently lost hundred thousands of subscribers and will loose more.

 

Guil Wars 2 is great game it has typical MMO mechanics which I enjoy but it offers PvP on competitive basis, Of course people move from SWTOR to GW2, You see SWTOR is going F2P right after GW2 will go release.

 

In this topic I give to Bioware some customer feedback concerning to PvP, we need fair and competitive PvP, people do not want to play PvP in discriminated format were gear matters and gives unfair advantages.

[Krystaf]

From my time playing in e-sports there were no mmo's listed or played at any of the tourneys which is why I stated that. That being said.

 

http://thecpl.com/the-cpl-heritage/ That started e-sports

 

http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/home Thats the current standard for e-sports

 

Notice not a single mmo is listed in those games. wiki might state mmo's but the people that pay you to play dont pay people to play the mmos.

 

Yes, but by definition e-sports is any kind of competitive digital (video) gaming. And I didn't mention mmo's either (although there are mmo tournaments held all the time, for example televised EVE Alliance tournament every year, ten years in a row now, with audience of tens of thousands, and Guild Wars monthly tournament ladder with matches that other players can observe and e-peen prices for winners, GW also used to have tournaments where best teams around the world would go to, in Korea f.ex). I called on your statement mainly because you only mentioned fps gaming as e-sport. Also, having league and cash prices don't change the fact that e-sports exist in lot's of games and game types.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Krystaf

[BambulaGTS]

You can have trainers, friends doctors or anything you like but when athletes goes into competition they have equal equipment. In football they have same boots, in box they have the same gloves. There are standards on sport equipment if you don't meet them you will never be qualified, if you deliberately violate standard on sport equipment you 'll be disqualified.

 

Let's say one boxer put a piece of metal inside his gloves to give advantage over other boxers, it's a typical example of cheating. So you support cheating, right?

 

You are deadly wrong. Athlets have custom equipment, very often worked out for this particular athlet.

 

Football boots, suits for swimming - these are very common examples.

[mcrmorgan]

You can have trainers, friends doctors or anything you like but when athletes goes into competition they have equal equipment. In football they have same boots, in box they have the same gloves. There are standards on sport equipment if you don't meet them you will never be qualified, if you deliberately violate standard on sport equipment you 'll be disqualified.

 

Let's say one boxer put a piece of metal inside his gloves to give advantage over other boxers, it's a typical example of cheating. So you support cheating, right?

 

Not every sport has an equal footing when you enter the competition, preparation is an important part of doing well in the majority of sports, in games such as this the preparation is getting better gear. Take formula 1 for example, different racing teams have massive racing advantages against other teams. Even the Olympics, the epitome of sports involves some discrepancies in equipment, in cycling you see that not every team uses the same equipment, GBR is the only one to use aerodynamic helmets.

 

Generally speaking it's cheating if either it's unsafe (the metal in the gloves, doping), if it gives an advantage to an individual/teams that other individuals/teams are unable to have, or if its taking the sport in a direction the organising body do not want it to go.

[Roiz]

You are deadly wrong. Athlets have custom equipment, very often worked out for this particular athlet.

 

Football boots, suits for swimming - these are very common examples.

Again there are standards on sport equipment. Boots doesn't matter a lot, the same for swimming suits.

You know wearing different swimming suits won't give you 2x speed boost. But WH gear comparing to recruit gives 2x more damage.

 

You really think what some teams are better in swimming because they have better swimming suits?

Edited August 8, 2012 by Roiz

[Roiz]

Not every sport has an equal footing when you enter the competition, preparation is an important part of doing well in the majority of sports, in games such as this the preparation is getting better gear. Take formula 1 for example, different racing teams have massive racing advantages against other teams. Even the Olympics, the epitome of sports involves some discrepancies in equipment, in cycling you see that not every team uses the same equipment, GBR is the only one to use aerodynamic helmets.

 

Generally speaking it's cheating if either it's unsafe (the metal in the gloves, doping), if it gives an advantage to an individual/teams that other individuals/teams are unable to have, or if its taking the sport in a direction the organising body do not want it to go.

 

F1 is not an Olympic sport. It is actually a competition for car companies.

 

In this game only one company provides gear. Just imagine a situation if in F1 will be only one company making cars and it gives new better models to some racers and slow models to another racers based on how long racer work for a team. Old racers would have new fast cars but new racers have an old crap.

[CRNphg]

Go watch Cool runnings.

[BambulaGTS]

Again there are standards on sport equipment. Boots doesn't matter a lot, the same for swimming suits.

You know wearing different swimming suits won't give you 2x speed boost. But WH gear comparing to recruit gives 2x more damage.

 

It gives you a boost (and you do not need 2x boost, just milliseconds), that's why some time ago there were claims about some brand suits and even rules change.

 

And of course you can't measure how boots will change perfomance of football player, but you can't be sure there is a difference.

[CRNphg]

F1 is not an Olympic sport. It is actually a competition for car companies.

 

In this game only one company provides gear. Just imagine a situation if in F1 will be only one company making cars and it gives new better models to some racers and slow models to another racers based on how long racer work for a team. Old racers would have new fast cars but new racers have an old crap.

 

Dont new racers start in Karts and not in Formula 1?

[Naplm]

I´ve full augmented, modified war hero gear. Now Op, you wanna take that from me? From others too? I didn't find gearing up pain at all, I enjoyed it and now I enjoy even more because I have power! And I think I deserve it as so many others too. P.S. When you learn how to survive and succeed at lower gear, you will pretty much dominate when you got the gear.