Sorcs in PvP....

[pureeffinmetal]

The reason your "melting faces" is bc lightning is elemental & resistance is lowest of all dmg types, unlike sage/shadows "mirror" attack that's kinetic and mitigated by armor. I really don't understand why BW would have "mirror" classes and choose to give one a huge advantage. I wonder if it has anything to do w/BW's Legacy gimmick aka re-roll to keep subs?

 

and btw I have 50 sorc & sage-anyone who says you cant be viable in pvp doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

This is incorrect.

 

Lightning Strike, Force Lightning and Shock are all energy damage, which is mitigated by armor.

 

As for the topic:

 

Sorcerers in their current state (DPS) are a sustained DPS class. The problem is that they are extremely squishy (ESPECIALLY under focus fire), not to mention most of their DPS can be shut down via interrupt.

 

As it stands Sorcerers either needs an increase to burst to offset their low uptime, or an increase their survivability so they can keep sustaining DPS. A defense CD would be really nice for this, as 2-3 people focus firing you is going to assure your death, unless you have just as many healers spam healing you. (Even then, I'd still say proper DPS would wreck the Sorc.)

 

I think overall the class would definitely benefit from a 2m Defensive CD. Adding interupt immunity to say, Polarity Shift in the Lightning Tree (which can Burst, but is easily shut down by interrupt) would go a long way to help DPS Sorcerers.

 

My 2 cents, feel free to bring up how I can magically absorb 10k damage via my Bubble and Heal as well as a pure-heal specc Sorcerer and CC 30 people at once that justify DPS Sorcerers in their current state.

Edited August 7, 2012 by pureeffinmetal

[UGLYMRJ]

Typos aside, I was only interested in what you considered a defensive ability, which you clarified. I would understand it as coordinating CC as we only have bubble for defense and it doesn't really require timing. I agree that multiple sorcs can use stun, whirlwind, and KB (with root eventually) to form a good synergy and perform better than when they're alone. I would guess, however, since you are in PUG lowbie PVP that you are not seeing the same coordination from the other side and it is elevating your perception of how the class performs in groups. Honestly, if there is a 4v2 and they didn't kill one of you within 8 seconds then they weren't focusing, they were level 10-11ish and had no abilities, and/or they have absolutely no skill whatsoever. I know you understand this is lowbie, you've said multiple times that it's still early, but I'll be interested to read what you have to say when you do eventually hit 50.

 

As much fun as we're having and as well as it's going it may be sooner than later. I'm actually really curious too. We've had some runs with premades that went well and some that didn't. Of course WE aren't running premades as well most of the time so it makes it even harder to really see how this works in 2 full on premades. As much of a force (pun intended) we are in these matches, where I honestly feel like we are in control of the entire match and a game winning force. I look forward to testing this out in premades and in rated at some point. The way I see it... it doesn't even have to be sorcs... it's just funnier with lightning. But I feel like any 2 ranged DPS working closely together is equal to 3 ranged DPS doing their own thing. It def helps that me and this guy have been working together for months... with my marauder and his assassin we have been designated as the healer hunters so our team work is pretty well coordinated.

 

Side note too...

 

I feel like static barrier is def under rated. How many DCD's can you apply to your ENTIRE team? Me and my guildie pretty much make a habit of having the team covered with barriers all game if possible. Exaggerating of course but seems to make quite the difference. I wish this number would show in protection just so I could see the numbers of how much damage we actually negate in each WZ.

Edited August 7, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Paulman]

As much fun as we're having and as well as it's going it may be sooner than later. I'm actually really curious too. We've had some runs with premades that went well and some that didn't. Of course WE aren't running premades as well most of the time so it makes it even harder to really see how this works in 2 full on premades. As much of a force (pun intended) we are in these matches, where I honestly feel like we are in control of the entire match and a game winning force. I look forward to testing this out in premades and in rated at some point. The way I see it... it doesn't even have to be sorcs... it's just funnier with lightning. But I feel like any 2 ranged DPS working closely together is equal to 3 ranged DPS doing their own thing. It def helps that me and this guy have been working together for months... with my marauder and his assassin we have been designated as the healer hunters so our team work is pretty well coordinated.

 

Side note too...

 

I feel like static barrier is def under rated. How many DCD's can you apply to your ENTIRE team? Me and my guildie pretty much make a habit of having the team covered with barriers all game if possible. Exaggerating of course but seems to make quite the difference. I wish this number would show in protection just so I could see the numbers of how much damage we actually negate in each WZ.

 

It shows under healing. I think you'll see something of a difference at 50 because a number of classes get a lot of extra abilities and become much harder to kite. You can still do well though. Let us know how it goes.

[UGLYMRJ]

It shows under healing. I think you'll see something of a difference at 50 because a number of classes get a lot of extra abilities and become much harder to kite. You can still do well though. Let us know how it goes.

 

Ahhhhh, that makes sense as to why I have such high healing numbers when I feel like I've done about half of what I've actually "healed". I'll def be giving updates. Once a little higher on the totem pole that we call leveling I was actually thinking of making a vid. I normally don't get that geek about things but I think it could be an eye opener to many who feel this class is too weak to compete. That is if all goes as is and as planned.

[Jadescythe]

I feel like static barrier is def under rated. How many DCD's can you apply to your ENTIRE team? Me and my guildie pretty much make a habit of having the team covered with barriers all game if possible. Exaggerating of course but seems to make quite the difference. I wish this number would show in protection just so I could see the numbers of how much damage we actually negate in each WZ.

 

I would say it probably accounts for about 1/3rd of the healing I do on my sorc. Typical warzone is about 350k healing, which means that would be 116k from bubbles/3500 damage stopped (healed according to BW) and you get about 33 bubbles thrown per match. Not really a hard number to hit and I would think the damage prevented is probably between 3k-3.5k and I probably do more bubbles, but who knows. It's the reasons that DPS sorcs get 100k healing in WZ's without actually healing anyone other than themselves from time to time.

 

While I'm thinking about it, if this is the reason that BW feels sorc lack of burst is ok, then make the ability to bubble other players a talent in the healing tree and let sorcs kill someone on their own for a change.

[Monterone]

MJR, you're gonna have a BLAST in the lowbie bracket on your sorc, especially if you are so well trained with your buddy from rateds and you two work well together to focus.

 

The Static Barrier is VERY strong in the lowbie bracket, and especially so if you take the extra 20% healing for SB in the Lightning tree. It is very hard for people in the lowbie bracket (unless they are geared twinks) to burn through your bubble quickly -- this changes drastically at 50.

 

In fact, everything changes drastically when you get to 50. It will be more painful to go through a week of being recruit geared than doing it on a PT, for example. Even when you are full augmented BM for example, the damage you put out will not feel the same as the damage you are putting out currently in the lowbies -- it just doesn't scale that well in the end game.

 

I really hope you stick with it and get well geared in your 50s! It's a blast of a class and my favorite -- but I log onto my PT to take a breath and enjoy the game a bit after I finish my PvP on my sage for the day. It's just more frustrating at end game and requires much more work/skill.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Monterone

[Dasaev]

I have a valor 83 sorc I have shelved. Bioware nurfed this class into a starter class with the hopes of the player rolling an alt. I feel my 500k wz damage is a fluff for sure. With the wraith proc chain lightning I felt like I could turn the tide of the game if people ignored me.

 

....

dude, are you kidding? you are dealing that dmg because you have good tank and healers in team.

my char is a valor 85 sage dps full wh geared. with all this, i'm being killed by all other classes in less then 15 sec face-to-face, and if i try hit&run , maybe 25-30.

the damage ~300k when i'm not focused. but! when attacking a higher rank armor the damage is less then the ability shows, and crits are very rare. on a fights against sorcs, (maybe because a lag) i was surprized to be beaten by undergeared ones. (one particulary used only lightning and crushing darkes - i still dont understand why he dealed 1300k per lightning tic and me less then 1100, beside force in balance (death field) done under shown damage).

 

so, as many said on this topic, this class becomes useless as dps in ranked. maybe healers will roll on a higher armor class in the future so BW understand that low armor, low health, low instant damage, no

uninterruptible ability, builds the weakest class in this game

[Commissar_Omega]

You're basing your evaluations of the pvp effectiveness of sorcs based upon...

 

Low level pvp?

 

I'm not not agreeing or disagreeing, but you seem to make the statement that "I'm doing pretty well now on my sorc, so therefore as I progress and get more skills, I will be even more effective".

 

But other people get more skills. Very, very nice ones. The players themselves get much better at using their class. The discussion of sorc, or any other class, should be based around end-game competitive pvp. We should discuss where the classes end up, not where they start, because we spend a great deal of time at the former.

 

Stop wasting space on the forums. Your post adds nothing constructive to discussion of class balance than to say, "in my limited anecdotal experience sorcs are very effective at low levels".

 

So what?

Edited August 7, 2012 by Commissar_Omega

[UGLYMRJ]

To characterize the OP,

 

 

 

 

Seriously, who hacked his account because this is the first thing you've written that is completly stupid and utterly lacks perspective. I hope you didn't overpay sir, I hope you didn't overpay.

 

LOL, I missed this one. I knew I'd catch some fire for this one but honestly. My main point that I've put out is that team work is far more important than the 1v1 base that everyone holds high as the rule of balance on forums. I'm not saying that me and my buddy melting faces means that sorcs are now the FOTM for rated. I'm just saying that with proper teamwork, I feel as if the class isn't done enough justice so far. I have also said many times in the post that these are claims made from low level. My opinion may change but thee difference between pugging alone and working beyond effectively with only ONE person with me is huge. Again, my main point is team work and that some of these classes were NOT designed as a 1v1 class and judging them on that level is not how to determine balance.

 

You're basing your evaluations of the pvp effectiveness of sorcs based upon...

 

Low level pvp?

 

I'm not not agreeing or disagreeing, but you seem to make the statement that "I'm doing pretty well now on my sorc, so therefore as I progress and get more skills, I will be even more effective".

 

But other people get more skills. Very, very nice ones. The players themselves get much better at using their class. The discussion of sorc, or any other class, should be based around end-game competitive pvp. We should discuss where the classes end up, not where they start, because we spend a great deal of time at the former.

 

Stop wasting space on the forums. Your post adds nothing constructive to discussion of class balance than to say, "in my limited anecdotal experience sorcs are very effective at low levels".

 

So what?

 

You may be right... however I see a lot of sorcs in my server excel. Again, I'm promoting team work and smart game play. I'm attempting to negate all the 1v1 balance views that do not properly reflect balance in my opinion. For all of the utility that this class has... I'm just saying. All everyone cries about is squishy... but aren't ranged DPS classes always squishy... in every game?

 

Besides that... you sir, have got to be kidding me. You're telling ME not to "waste space" on these forums? Perhaps I could have started another super constructive nerf PT thread where we can all get together and spread a ton of misinformation on assumptions about classes that we haven't played.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I'm sorry... at least I'm not putting up some negative crap about a game that I pay monthly for and enjoy. Seriously dude... constructive? Do you even read the rest of these posts are are you as bad as everyone else on these forums trying to boost their internet ego and just flame every post on page 1?

Edited August 7, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[UGLYMRJ]

 

I really hope you stick with it and get well geared in your 50s! It's a blast of a class and my favorite -- but I log onto my PT to take a breath and enjoy the game a bit after I finish my PvP on my sage for the day. It's just more frustrating at end game and requires much more work/skill.

 

THIS is what I like about it... I know it's going to be tougher to excel than my marauder of course but if I can take an under rated class and perform well. More power to me. I enjoy the challenge, and honestly this class is ridiculously fun to play.

[Sharee]

You may be right... however I see a lot of sorcs in my server excel.

 

Of course you do. At low level pvp, sorcs are great. This comes from them getting all the abilities that make them powerful early on. A sage level ~25 is only missing two abilities from his trainer - forcequake and friendly pull. Those have great utility but missing them doesn't reduce the raw killing power much.

 

Compare that to a guardian who does not get his execute-like ability until level 46. Huge damage on a 6 sec timer that is almost guaranteed to crit(for my vig) increases his power tremendously. And he is missing that for 45 levels.

 

You really should experience level 50 pvp first before forming an opinion about the relative power of sages/sorcs.

[UGLYMRJ]

Of course you do. At low level pvp, sorcs are great. This comes from them getting all the abilities that make them powerful early on. A sage level ~25 is only missing two abilities from his trainer - forcequake and friendly pull. Those have great utility but missing them doesn't reduce the raw killing power much.

 

Compare that to a guardian who does not get his execute-like ability until level 46. Huge damage on a 6 sec timer that is almost guaranteed to crit(for my vig) increases his power tremendously. And he is missing that for 45 levels.

 

You really should experience level 50 pvp first before forming an opinion about the relative power of sages/sorcs.

 

I'm not talking about low level PvP.... I play more 50 PvP on my main than anything and that's where I'm pulling these opinions from. There aren't as many as other classes like Pt's of course but there is a fair number of sorcs and sages I see doing quite well in post 50 PvP.

 

Also the reason I'm rolling one myself... so I can speak from experience and play a class that can excel but may be more challenging.

Edited August 7, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Commissar_Omega]

 

Besides that... you sir, have got to be kidding me. You're telling ME not to "waste space" on these forums? Perhaps I could have started another super constructive nerf PT thread where we can all get together and spread a ton of misinformation on assumptions about classes that we haven't played.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I'm sorry... at least I'm not putting up some negative crap about a game that I pay monthly for and enjoy. Seriously dude... constructive? Do you even read the rest of these posts are are you as bad as everyone else on these forums trying to boost their internet ego and just flame every post on page 1?

 

While a murderer is worse than a thief, they're both criminals. I also pay monthly for the game, and would like people not to inject a big dose of ignorance into debates that could impact my enjoyment of the game. Whether it be your thread or nerf powertech thread #32143425. Though the ideas may or may not have merit, they are often given little or baseless justification built upon inexperience or ignorance.

 

I've played sorc since early access, and nothing else. I play on an extremely good ranked team with a 2000+ rating. I know the (dps) sorc inside and out. I think sorc is in a good place right now, but it's very hard for people to be good at it as evidenced by the fact there are very few good ones who put up numbers similar to other dps classes. I agree with you that sorc is pretty effective at pvp, but if I wanted to give my opinion, because of my experience, a forum thread by me or someone like me would carry some weight.

 

You've played the sorc for under a week. You might pay a monthly subscription, but so do I, and so people who actually play the sorc regularly, and saying, "sorc is great because I play one good at level (not 50 and geared and playing competitively)" woefully misrepresents the class and how it should be balanced or not.

 

That's all.

[Monterone]

THIS is what I like about it... I know it's going to be tougher to excel than my marauder of course but if I can take an under rated class and perform well. More power to me. I enjoy the challenge, and honestly this class is ridiculously fun to play.

 

That's exactly why I play it... I love nothing more than the feeling when a PT grapples me in and then ends up losing the fight somehow, and I know the player must be sitting there going -- ***, that was a sage?!

 

But other times it sucks -- my new sage is my first 50 on pub side (long time sorc) and is relatively new so I don't get marked much yet, but when you do -- **** me in the goat ***, there's nothing you can do all game! The only thing that helps is going madness/lightning hybrid for extra roots, better mezz and better force regen so you can bubble more often and sprint more often.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Monterone

[Sharee]

 

Also the reason I'm rolling one myself... so I can speak from experience and play a class that can excel but may be more challenging.

 

Well, good luck then. The challenge comes from knocking back a marauder as soon as he jumps at you, GCD permitting, and then not giving up in frustration when you realize he removed half your hp before the knockback animation finished, bubble and all

[UGLYMRJ]

While a murderer is worse than a thief, they're both criminals. I also pay monthly for the game, and would like people not to inject a big dose of ignorance into debates that could impact my enjoyment of the game. Whether it be your thread or nerf powertech thread #32143425. Though the ideas may or may not have merit, they are often given little or baseless justification built upon inexperience or ignorance.

 

I've played sorc since early access, and nothing else. I play on an extremely good ranked team with a 2000+ rating. I know the (dps) sorc inside and out. I think sorc is in a good place right now, but it's very hard for people to be good at it as evidenced by the fact there are very few good ones who put up numbers similar to other dps classes. I agree with you that sorc is pretty effective at pvp, but if I wanted to give my opinion, because of my experience, a forum thread by me or someone like me would carry some weight.

 

You've played the sorc for under a week. You might pay a monthly subscription, but so do I, and so people who actually play the sorc regularly, and saying, "sorc is great because I play one good at level (not 50 and geared and playing competitively)" woefully misrepresents the class and how it should be balanced or not.

 

That's all.

 

This is where I think you failed to see my original point...

 

Team work and working as intended. Maybe you saw something else but I thought I was being clear. I also made a point of saying it was coming from a low level bracket and thought I had also made it clear that they weren't words to live by, on that same note I would be surprised if this didn't go exactly as planned.

[UGLYMRJ]

That's exactly why I play it... I love nothing more than the feeling when a PT grapples me in and then ends up losing the fight somehow, and I know the player must be sitting there going -- ***, that was a sage?!

 

But other times it sucks -- my new sage is my first 50 on pub side (long time sorc) and is relatively new so I don't get marked much yet, but when you do -- **** me in the goat ***, there's nothing you can do all game! The only thing that helps is going madness/lightning hybrid for extra roots, better mezz and better force regen so you can bubble more often and sprint more often.

 

That's exactly what I like about it! And also why I like working with another sorc that I have good chemistry with.... with timing everything we have taken on mobs of melee DPS and I'm sure made them scratch their head. Personally I always enjoy the under dog and this class doesn't seem nearly as weak as I expected so far. We'll see how it translates down the road but things are looking good.

 

Vids we def be getting posted once we grind to 50 as well. This is by far the most entertainment I've had so far and I'm sure watching 2 sorcs working as a unit would be fun to watch for some. I normally don't get that geek about things but seriously... most fun I've had since this games been installed and most know how much I enjoy the game.

Edited August 7, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[Paulman]

I experimented recently a few weeks ago on a sorc at 49; twinked it up a little bit, with purple armoring and enhancements. I was not only doubling the next highest players damage but also had the highest healing. I wouldn't base class balance off of this though.

[Commissar_Omega]

This is where I think you failed to see my original point...

 

Team work and working as intended. Maybe you saw something else but I thought I was being clear. I also made a point of saying it was coming from a low level bracket and thought I had also made it clear that they weren't words to live by, on that same note I would be surprised if this didn't go exactly as planned.

 

So, not sure what all the complaints are about. Working as intended I feel and I'm sure it's only gonna get better with the more tools we have at hand.

 

 

alone, it's definitely a bit tougher. But I still manage to do well. With some team work... damn near unstoppable.

 

It sounds like you were telling people to learn to play, and saying that coordinating with people makes the sorc much better. The problem with that is that EVERY class is much better with team synergy. A DPS operative can almost instantly kill people...if coordinating with another DPS operative. Does that mean that the class is balanced? NO!

 

Even besides your "learn to teamwork" assertion, you even said, "alone, it's definitely alot tougher. But I still manage to do well". You were even suggesting that people need to learn to play on a individual basis. All because you did ok in some low-level pvp.

 

You also suggested that your 'findings' would remain consistent, "working as intended I feel and I'm sure it's only gonna get better with the more tools we have at hand".

Edited August 7, 2012 by Commissar_Omega

[Evil_Santa]

You'll find that the sorc rules lowbie pvp, but it's damage and bubble do not mature as well as some of the other AC's burst damage/defensive abilities.

 

As you said - the sorc is a great utility class, and has the best mobility of the AC's - which makes it a primary AC for 2v2's at different objectives on a map. If it get into a zerg vs 2 carnage mara's, you're ****ed if they're focus firing on you.

 

Let me know when you get to 50.

[Boyana]

ZzZz

As far as I know, sorcs, most of them, complained about their survivability in RATED warzones...

 

Who NOW really cares about normal, let alone sub50 WZs.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Boyana

[Jaiyne]

I still prefer playing my DPS sage to anything else, but one thing - even when equally geared - you will have to try harder to kill your opponent and survive. You'll have to try way harder, while they can more than likely faceroll around or pop their defensive CDs to finish you. It makes your victories and/or escapes a lot sweeter that's for sure.

 

The one class you really can't make a mistake on and live - in the 50 bracket and facing a good team - is a DPS sage/sorc. You just can't.

 

I lol'd at the "two sages throwing rocks is just brutal" statement. Playing Empire side recently, I totally get that

[Ssfbistimg]

Let me know when you hit 50 and tell me what that experience is like. It doesn't matter what AC you are (or if you even have one at all) to be good in lowbie tbh. Also, pray you never have a PT/VG find you with their dots that you can't cleanse and let me know how rail shot feels from the other end.

 

Ive been 50 for months with my Sage. And I am no way underpowered. Only thing id like to see changed is weaken minds time duration lowered to 12 seconds and sever force lowered to 15 seconds. Our dots are just to long. No one is rarely ever alive that long to get full damage on them. But other then that I think I do just fine as is.

[Kegparty]

dude, are you kidding? you are dealing that dmg because you have good tank and healers in team.

my char is a valor 85 sage dps full wh geared. with all this, i'm being killed by all other classes in less then 15 sec face-to-face, and if i try hit&run , maybe 25-30.

the damage ~300k when i'm not focused. but! when attacking a higher rank armor the damage is less then the ability shows, and crits are very rare. on a fights against sorcs, (maybe because a lag) i was surprized to be beaten by undergeared ones. (one particulary used only lightning and crushing darkes - i still dont understand why he dealed 1300k per lightning tic and me less then 1100, beside force in balance (death field) done under shown damage).

 

so, as many said on this topic, this class becomes useless as dps in ranked. maybe healers will roll on a higher armor class in the future so BW understand that low armor, low health, low instant damage, no

uninterruptible ability, builds the weakest class in this game

 

Jesus I was agreeing with you. Fluff damage + severe lack of incoming damage reduction

[Kegparty]

Ive been 50 for months with my Sage. And I am no way underpowered. Only thing id like to see changed is weaken minds time duration lowered to 12 seconds and sever force lowered to 15 seconds. Our dots are just to long. No one is rarely ever alive that long to get full damage on them. But other then that I think I do just fine as is.

 

I agree with the dot speed completely but some survivability needs to be increased. This class is way gear dependent and even then you have 10sec if someone gets on you.

 

I have multiple 50s and my sorc is the only one i get nervous defending a node alone. Name another class like that..