Starwars?...more like Stunwars

[Skolops]

There really isn't anything wrong with stuns. There are only TWO cases when you can be permastunned

 

1) You try to fight 3 or 4 people at once alone - often happens on bad teams who get wiped a lot or trickle in one by one

 

2) 3 or 4 players on the other team all decide to target you at once during a fight with other players around

 

 

When #1 happens, you either learn not to go into such fights alone (if it was your fault you were alone) or you chock it up to your awful team and move on

 

When #2 happens, it sucks but you just pick yourself up and go back to the fight and will probably not have it happen again.

[wessik]

Level 50, 52 Valor Commando Medic. Yes, I've read the article and am aware of how resolve works.

 

i am a valor 86 sniper... i have multiple cc abilities, however if i use:

 

1 stun (debilitate) - 4s - ~50% resolve +

1 mezz (flashbang) - 8s IF not broken by damage - 80% resolve

 

your resolve bar is overflowing and you can't be stunned again... if you get hit by any damage, the flashbang breaks

 

which classes are stunlocking you until you are dead?

also how much expertise do you have?

how much health do you have?

[Kawiki]

A few nights ago I was fighting a sorc in huttball - i was moving carefully so that a knockback wouldn't push me over a walkway - he notices this, stuns me, walks behind me and knockback/roots me into a fire trap. I was outplayed?

 

 

Yes you were outplayed.

 

Realizing you could be knocked off and positioning yourself = good.

 

Positioning yourself so you could be knocked into fire = bad.

 

He saw how he could use his skills to his advantage, you failed at it and died.

 

I say well played to that sorc.

[Skolops]

i am a valor 86 sniper... i have multiple cc abilities, however if i use:

 

1 stun (debilitate) - 4s - ~50% resolve +

1 mezz (flashbang) - 8s IF not broken by damage - 80% resolve

 

your resolve bar is overflowing and you can't be stunned again... if you get hit by any damage, the flashbang breaks

 

which classes are stunlocking you until you are dead?

also how much expertise do you have?

how much health do you have?

 

It's true. The reality is that if you're stunlocked until you're dead, it just means you had so much damage coming in that you would have been dead even if you weren't stunlocked - it's not the CCs that are doing it. That's another reason that on good teams with good tanks and healers you don't notice CC as much, because you are not just getting focused down so easily.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Skolops

[kweassa]

It's kinda interesting to see how people refer to something as a "permastun", which implies there are stuns so long and frequent, that it runs permanently. Except, such a thing doesn't exist in the first place.

 

They casually confuse the difference between a "permastun", and "just enough stuns to get them killed during the working duration" -- which, in reality, is mere 8 seconds from two back to back hard stuns, which after that time you're granted a period of immunity.

 

In 1vs1 terms (in other words, more or less numerically equal conditions), no enemy just kills you straightout during the duration of that stun, except perhaps Ops/Scoundrels in the early days. Heck, the absolute majority of classes in game don't even have enough stuns to use back-to-back. Only defense Juggs/Guardians can do that.

 

It may seem like a "permastun" to people who just about die every time a group of enemies chain-stun them, but to others who know how to counter it, or survive it properly, its just another common game mechanic.

 

 

Don't disguise as your lack of understanding as if it were some OP mechanic -- because it ain't.

[WaywardOne]

Ha ha ha !!! Another fresh fifty that get's creamed in the big boys league and thinking it happens because of CC . Stick in there m8y things will get better. As a second char I play a commando medic and I'm very hard to dispatch if I get proper support. Especially I love when I have full resolve and I can't be interrupted due to my specced reactive shield.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah you were outplayed . If you'd be a man you'd recognize that and say to yourself "Well played mister sorcerer". Instead you chose to complain that your path to greatness is barred by CC . And yes, in this game, proper CC usage requires some brain, maybe you don't see it yet but if you lose the entrenched mentality (CC=bad) you'll get it eventually. One last thing, if you are focused by the enemy team it's your team's job to protect you, it's an 8vs8 match not 8vs1. We are all heroes in that little WZ square you don't get to vanquish a horde of enemies by yourself.

 

As a great roman general said "Hold the line! Stay with me! If you find yourself alone, riding in the green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled. For you are in Elysium, and you're already dead!"

 

P.S. [edited] I'm sorry that some players find the CC/resolve system not fun to play with. But that's not a good reason for me to dumb the game down. Maybe for EA will be good enough (if you complain some more) but not for me. So I'll stick to my guns when we talk about CC/resolve .

 

I knew someone would say that. It was a good move on the sorcs part but how was I outplayed? What was my move? I had no chance. That's the game's fault, not my skill deficiency. Can my sent kill anyone with 2 buttons? Yes , but you have to walk on a fire trap first... That sorc killed my sent with 2 button pushes, all of which were cc - I was using far more brainpower trying to avoid the knockback while keeping a max dot on my target and interrupting channelled spells. My only real move was to stay off the walkways that have classes with knockbacks and stuns. But wait - some classes can pull me up to them...

 

And for the record, I have 0 problems winning the game as is. In a straight up duel I will hold my own against the best (but not on rafters/cliffs and there's one operative one my server that will beat me 8 out of 10x). CC is still not fun and games without it or with less are just as "tactical" if not moreso. Most of the best Pvpers I have played with consider this one a bit of a joke actually.

[kweassa]

It's true. The reality is that if you're stunlocked until you're dead, it just means you had so much damage coming in that you would have been dead even if you weren't stunlocked - it's not the CCs that are doing it. That's another reason that on good teams with good tanks and healers you don't notice CC as much, because you are not just getting focused down so easily.

 

Precisely. Being stunlocked to death simply means you were a victim of focus fire, which usually happens as a result of:

 

(1) Poor positioning -- usually happens to force leap/charge melees that jump straight into multiple enemies

(2) Focused and left for dead -- usually happens when your team sucks and has no guard, heals, taunt, peelers

(3) Standing out -- particularly noticeable team contribution,, mezzes, heals, knocks, etc, and enemy team perceives you as primary threat (similar to (2))

(4) Standing out 2 -- your level low, playing style unimpressive, enemy sees you as easy picking

 

... and etc etc.

 

 

In otherwords, its a L2P issue - not a system issue. Its not even a stun issue -- more of a focus fire issue.

[Skolops]

I knew someone would say that. It was a good move on the sorcs part but how was I outplayed? What was my move? I had no chance. That's the game's fault, not my skill deficiency. Can my sent kill anyone with 2 buttons? Yes , but you have to walk on a fire trap first... That sorc killed my sent with 2 button pushes, all of which were cc - I was using far more brainpower trying to avoid the knockback while keeping a max dot on my target and interrupting channelled spells. My only real move was to stay off the walkways that have classes with knockbacks and stuns. But wait - some classes can pull me up to them...

 

And for the record, I have 0 problems winning the game as is. In a straight up duel I will hold my own against the best (but not on rafters/cliffs and there's one operative one my server that will beat me 8 out of 10x). CC is still not fun and games without it or with less are just as "tactical" if not moreso. Most of the best Pvpers I have played with consider this one a bit of a joke actually.

 

You're complaining about CC use regarding the fires in Huttball? My friend, that is the entire point of those fires. The thing about Huttball is this: while on the one hand its the least most objective oriented of any warzone, on the other its the one where you WILL die a lot. It's part of that map, so don't worry too much if you, well, die a lot on it. You're kindof supposed to.

 

So a sorc knocked you into the fire and stunned you in there. Well, it is up to you to recognize that as a possibility and adapt accordingly. Thus, the next time you see a Sorc in that position, make sure you're not standing at an angle that can be thrown into the fire. Or, Force Stasis him first or use Awe and walk past him to wherever you're trying to get. However, don't blame losing to a smart use of the sorc's abilities on the game.

[Kawiki]

I knew someone would say that. It was a good move on the sorcs part but how was I outplayed? What was my move? I had no chance. That's the game's fault, not my skill deficiency. Can my sent kill anyone with 2 buttons? Yes , but you have to walk on a fire trap first... That sorc killed my sent with 2 button pushes, all of which were cc - I was using far more brainpower trying to avoid the knockback while keeping a max dot on my target and interrupting channelled spells. My only real move was to stay off the walkways that have classes with knockbacks and stuns. But wait - some classes can pull me up to them...

 

And for the record, I have 0 problems winning the game as is. In a straight up duel I will hold my own against the best (but not on rafters/cliffs and there's one operative one my server that will beat me 8 out of 10x). CC is still not fun and games without it or with less are just as "tactical" if not moreso. Most of the best Pvpers I have played with consider this one a bit of a joke actually.

 

Pro Tip:

 

Don't play watchman in PvP - go combat. That way you just root that nasty sorc so he can't re-position himself.

[Capt_Beers]

I don't believe that there is anything wrong with the CC in this game. Used effectively it's a game changer, have a whole team blow their 45+ CD's to stun one guy and focus him is a horrible move on their part; they just removed a ton utility from their team to kill one guy. And if you're getting focused like that you're gonna die, no two ways about it.

 

I used to think the same thing, that stuns were out of control. But I learned more about the game and how resolve works. you have to learn how to use your stuns to your advantage without using them too much and giving someone a full resolve bar in a situation when it could be avoided.

 

Pro Tips

 

- Use your CC breaker only when resolve is full and you're not going to die. If your resolve is full and you're being focused by 3+, just eat it bro. that CD will come in much more useful later.

 

- Nothing was stopping you from stunning that Sorc that killed you. Or knocking him back. Or pulling him. Or leaping and rooting. I've seen people get real creative on those walkways.

 

- If you're mezzed and for the duration it's a trade off. You take no damage but your out of the fight. You'll also be back a lot quicker than respawning (unless you get lucky and the gate comes down right as you spawn). Healers can also cleanse these so you could possibly end up with full/close to full resolve no worse for the wear for a second or two before a healer cleanses.

 

- Nerf operatives.

[kweassa]

I knew someone would say that. It was a good move on the sorcs part but how was I outplayed? What was my move? I had no chance. That's the game's fault, not my skill deficiency. Can my sent kill anyone with 2 buttons? Yes , but you have to walk on a fire trap first... That sorc killed my sent with 2 button pushes, all of which were cc - I was using far more brainpower trying to avoid the knockback while keeping a max dot on my target and interrupting channelled spells. My only real move was to stay off the walkways that have classes with knockbacks and stuns. But wait - some classes can pull me up to them...

 

1. Walking into a fire trap

2. Walking into a terrain where the enemy is advantageous

3. Walking into a potentially dangerous situation without CC breaker ready

4. Failed attempt to minimize effects of knock (minding angles)

5. Not thinking about alternatives: (1) bring back-up, (2) find another opportunity, etc..

 

You knew the risks, the enemy was obviosuly baiting you, but you still chose to engage and took that risk. You turned out to be wrong and failed in the attempt... and what, "its the game's fault" ??

 

 

And for the record, I have 0 problems winning the game as is. In a straight up duel I will hold my own against the best (but not on rafters/cliffs and there's one operative one my server that will beat me 8 out of 10x). CC is still not fun and games without it or with less are just as "tactical" if not moreso. Most of the best Pvpers I have played with consider this one a bit of a joke actually.

 

Funny, because most of the best PvPers I know, take CC/resolve whiners as n00bs with L2P issues.

[LenrocNewDawn]

"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle."

- Sun Tzu

 

Managing cool downs and knowing what an enemy can do to you is about skill and awareness. Sometimes you'll get outplayed sometimes you'll outplay the opposition it's the nature of the beast. Sometimes you just can't win due to specific circumstances at a specific point in time it doesn't mean that something is broken, it means only that your opponent got the upper hand at that specific moment. Stop looking for something or somebody to blame. As somebody above said don't get that stirred up about a virtual death of a virtual char just get back in there and virtually kill a virtual toon .

[Balinus]

If you read carefully, I never said get rid of stuns. I do believe stuns are good to have in pvp to be used tactically...but getting perma stunned is what i am talking about coupled with resolve not really kicking in a lot of the times. I have multiple toons dps and heals, but on my sorc and merc healer, once i get that target over my head, it becomes stun city. 10 times more that on my Jug/Maur or Op. Can't even heal my team mates...spend more time trying to keep myself alive....which isnt very successful with the.....yes you called it....perma stuns

...and yes i am strategic when i comes to where i position myself (i.e. around corners / columns, etc...) to avoid getting noticed too much.

If your team doesnt protect u and u r a healer, it is not the game's fault, it is ppl's fault

[PloGreen]

I knew someone would say that. It was a good move on the sorcs part but how was I outplayed? What was my move? I had no chance. That's the game's fault, not my skill deficiency. Can my sent kill anyone with 2 buttons? Yes , but you have to walk on a fire trap first... That sorc killed my sent with 2 button pushes, all of which were cc - I was using far more brainpower trying to avoid the knockback while keeping a max dot on my target and interrupting channelled spells. My only real move was to stay off the walkways that have classes with knockbacks and stuns. But wait - some classes can pull me up to them...

 

And for the record, I have 0 problems winning the game as is. In a straight up duel I will hold my own against the best (but not on rafters/cliffs and there's one operative one my server that will beat me 8 out of 10x). CC is still not fun and games without it or with less are just as "tactical" if not moreso. Most of the best Pvpers I have played with consider this one a bit of a joke actually.

 

You play a sent and you are qqing about sorc? This is amusing to say the least.

[WaywardOne]

It's true. The reality is that if you're stunlocked until you're dead, it just means you had so much damage coming in that you would have been dead even if you weren't stunlocked - it's not the CCs that are doing it. That's another reason that on good teams with good tanks and healers you don't notice CC as much, because you are not just getting focused down so easily.

 

It is much more fun to die fighting than it is to die while stunned 2x. Without cc the one that dies can try something and maybe do a little damage, finish a weak attacker, spike a ball, etc. before he winks out. It definitely takes a little more effort/thought on the attacker's part to finish a defender that's moving, fighting, activating defenses, popping heals or maybe going invis than it does to kill one that's standing there doing nothing (ie being outplayed).

[Skolops]

It is much more fun to die fighting than it is to die while stunned 2x. Without cc the one that dies can try something and maybe do a little damage, finish a weak attacker, spike a ball, etc. before he winks out. It definitely takes a little more effort/thought on the attacker's part to finish a defender that's moving, fighting, activating defenses, popping heals or maybe going invis than it does to kill one that's standing there doing nothing (ie being outplayed).

 

When you have 4 people on you, there is no dodging, sorry.

[Balinus]

i Think is just L2P, i see a lot of ppl tryeing to stun me after i leap on then with my vigilance guardian [ when i leap for 5 sec i cant be cc'ed ] or using force stasis on my gunslinger while i have hunker down. Then they dont know what it is and say ''bug i stunned him and he didnt stopped attacking me''

[Archaar]

Resolve does not work properly all of the time. Just did a huttball and the rep team had 3 guardians. I was hit with Awe 3 times in a row, the first time It hit me I was all ready at full resolve. Each one ticked for the full 6 seconds and there was nothing I could do. How is this fun for any player? There is too much CC in this game and not enough ways to break out of it, that's the problem. 1 CC breaker is not enough.

[Archaar]

i Think is just L2P, i see a lot of ppl tryeing to stun me after i leap on then with my vigilance guardian [ when i leap for 5 sec i cant be cc'ed ] or using force stasis on my gunslinger while i have hunker down. Then they dont know what it is and say ''bug i stunned him and he didnt stopped attacking me''

 

If it's the 1st time you have attacked me then I'm gonna try and knock you back, I have no other way of knowing whether you have specced unremitting or not until you leap to me. Once I know I can't knock you about, I mark you so I don't try and CC you for 4 seconds. I doubt most players even think about things like that, I often have players try and stun me / knock me back when I'm at full resolve, when resolve is working of course.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Archaar

[kweassa]

Resolve does not work properly all of the time. Just did a huttball and the rep team had 3 guardians. I was hit with Awe 3 times in a row, the first time It hit me I was all ready at full resolve. Each one ticked for the full 6 seconds and there was nothing I could do. How is this fun for any player? There is too much CC in this game and not enough ways to break out of it, that's the problem. 1 CC breaker is not enough.

 

Unless it is some rare, undocumented, and unwitnessed bug happening, systematically Resolve ALWAYS works as intended, exactly as it should.

 

You're welcome to prove this wrong by submitting actual evidence. This SWTOR version of "the James Randi Challenge" has been now running for something like 8~9 months, and still, upto date, not a single proof has been submitted that Resolve has exceptions, or fails to work at times.

 

People tend to have very self-serving/warped memory when it comes to disgruntling events -- I doubt you are an exception.

Edited August 2, 2012 by kweassa

[Balinus]

If it's the 1st time you have attacked me then I'm gonna try and knock you back, I have no other way of knowing whether you have specced unremitting or not until you leap to me. Once I know I can't knock you about, I mark you so I don't try and CC you for 4 seconds. I doubt most players even think about things like that, I often have players try and stun me / knock me back when I'm at full resolve, when resolve is working of course.

All guardians in shien form will have unresmitting

[WaywardOne]

When you have 4 people on you, there is no dodging, sorry.

 

Not true at all but that's got nothing to do with my point. My point is that it's much more fun and engaging for both sides to fight it out. I can't tell you how many times a non-cc'd def has used stealth to "outplay"/survive 4+ attackers (in this game and others). Even in this game I have seen ball carriers make short runs with 3+ bad attackers on them and live long enough to score. That can't happen with stuns and knockback-roots, though... the ball carrier would need heals, guarders and resolve (or someone to pass to) to get through that.

Edited August 2, 2012 by WaywardOne

[Larishet]

Knockbacks, Pulls, and Roots need to be separated from the stupid concept of this game: Stuns.

 

Back to back stuns should not be possible. Resolve isn't implemented well enough in this game.

[Skolops]

Knockbacks, Pulls, and Roots need to be separated from the stupid concept of this game: Stuns.

 

Back to back stuns should not be possible. Resolve isn't implemented well enough in this game.

 

I have said for a long time that they would have the whole CC/resolve/break system down very, very nicely if they would decrease the amount of resolve it takes to be full and thus immune by 20% or so.

[Darth_Philar]

Knockbacks, Pulls, and Roots need to be separated from the stupid concept of this game: Stuns.

 

Back to back stuns should not be possible. Resolve isn't implemented well enough in this game.

 

Back to Back stuns will always grant Resolve Immunity and they require 2 enemy players to be targeting you.

This is not a problem with Resolve, but a problem with you thinking you are Master Chief and everyone else is a Grunt.