Has a game ever failed after going F2P?

[Niryon]

Likely get flamed for this, but CoX seems to be doing incredibly well since it went F2P model. I know I was subbed to it for years, and stayed subbed even after the cash shop opened. If something popped up on the shop I wanted, I snagged it. Big deal. So many of you are making a huge deal out of this. It's not the end of the world.

[VulcanLogic]

The Matrix Online failed. As in, the servers are no longer running and the game is gone. As far as I know, it's didnt go F2P, they instead just shut down.

 

"Not like this..."

 

Hilarious.

[Bossa_Nova]

Likely get flamed for this, but CoX seems to be doing incredibly well since it went F2P model. I know I was subbed to it for years, and stayed subbed even after the cash shop opened. If something popped up on the shop I wanted, I snagged it. Big deal. So many of you are making a huge deal out of this. It's not the end of the world.

 

QFT CoX is a great example of F2P done well. Regular content updates are not only still being produced, but they are coming out faster than when the game was solely subscription based. Granted, you can purchase what would be the equivalent of gear, but it is by no means necessary, nor will it give you a noticeable edge.

[DevSolo]

I tried LOTRO when it went F2P, to try MMO's. And subscribed about 2 months later. Here is my take. The F2Players ultimately do two things:

 

The ones that won't pay a cent talk up the lowbie areas, not good.

The ones that succumb to buying 'tokens' w/o considering subbing end up spending more for the game, giving those that subscribe more content, good.

 

This is, of course, IMHO.

[Felioats]

There will always be a few players who will never pay for anything in a F2P game. The question is, "Are there enough paying customers to make up the difference and then some?"

 

I really think a lot of the free content is going to be free because it's being grandfathered in, both to tempt more players and to minimize fallout from the decision. I don't expect most quests and features will be free going forward.

[Tuscad]

Hahaha, you've got it backwards OP. Games fail, THEN go F2P. Ya know, like that stupid Lord of the Rings MMO that people keep touting about as if it were a step behind WoW or something. That game FAILED, and I don't care if they 'multiplied' their subs, when you have 10 subs and multiply it by three, that's 30. That's a big stretch, guys. Get your collective heads out of your collective behinds. SW:TOR has failed, and is going F2P. The sooner you come to grips with that, the more fun you will have when we're all buying 'Darth Maul's Special Saber' for 1200 Cartel Coins.

 

Replace Darth Maul with Darth Malak.

[Felioats]

The Matrix Online failed. As in, the servers are no longer running and the game is gone. As far as I know, it's didnt go F2P, they instead just shut down.

 

"Not like this..."

 

Hilarious.

 

Same story with Tabula Rasa. No last-ditch F2P, it just quit.

 

The Matrix Online, at least, was so horrible I doubt even F2P could have saved it.

[Samy_Merchi]

IIRC, those two were quite some time ago. Had DDO and LOTRO popularized the F2P idea as viable by the time they shut down?

[CorellianWannabe]

QFT CoX is a great example of F2P done well. Regular content updates are not only still being produced, but they are coming out faster than when the game was solely subscription based. Granted, you can purchase what would be the equivalent of gear, but it is by no means necessary, nor will it give you a noticeable edge.

 

Really? Purple Invention Enhancements do not give you a noticable edge? Powers that can recharge before their effect ends (something that was curbed years ago) don't affect the game?

[ZakMan]

The pay to play model created the illusion that every MMO made since WoW was something of a relative failure; and this illusion, in turn, created an atmosphere of cynicism and negativity about MMOs in general among the playbase.

 

But the real failure was the pay2play model itself. Once that model is removed -- which I think will be complete in a few years (i.e., all MMOs will be f2p) -- it will seem that the MMO world is filled with one success after another.

 

MMOs haven't been failing because they suck, they have been "failing" because a subscription model for gaming is an oxymoron.

 

I just want to say, I usually fear forums, especially Bioware forums because of how ragequitting and crusading people can get, and there's really only about a 1 in 10 chance of finding a thread with well spoken and valid points to both sides of an argument.

 

I'm happy to say this is the first one I have seen regarding the F2P model since it was announced yesterday.

 

Also, for some reason it seems like most of the people who use that avatar tend to converse better then most of the other people on the forum.

[Bossa_Nova]

Really? Purple Invention Enhancements do not give you a noticable edge? Powers that can recharge before their effect ends (something that was curbed years ago) don't affect the game?

 

Never said they didn't affect the game. But, no, since PvP is virtually non-existent, Purple IOs don't give you a noticeable edge. The main reason being that there is no edge to be had. At the point at which you are able to use those enhancement you're already at the level cap, and you are never really in competition with other players.

 

In SWTOR; however, selling gear could give an edge unless they only sold orange gear that hasn't been slotted yet. As long as SWTOR sticks to selling vanity items the cash store won't affect balance.

[alifaraaz]

It's quite simple. If you're a wow clone, you can't charge the same price and expect to succeed without being truly better in all regards. Because not only are you competing against their content currently, you're competing against its past based on the long investment and attachment players have for their characters over the years.

 

I prefer subs, but f2p (which as we know isn't really free ever) is clearly the future, as it brings in more players, more exposure, more money.

 

People fear monthly subs. By people I mean casuals ofcourse. That's why people complain so much about dlc on CoD for example, and why things like Cod elite premium and battlefield premium is so popular. One big payment for what they know they're getting.

 

A monthly expense is a fear, they fear they won't get what they pay for it whether they can afford it. Whereas f2p gives them control of what they buy. They know what they're paying for, they feel the impact of their money spent. They neverfeel like they're paying for the games development, and instead feel like they're paying for a product like any.other game. That and little vanity items are addictive and a great cash cows.

 

Overall its the best business model to a broader audience of gamers.

 

People will complain regardless. I don't expect this game to be the second child.of god, nor do I expect gw2 to be either. Because I'm realistic. I try to be a bit.optimistic but I take everything with a grain of salt.

 

Furthermore I feel more content of sorts, be it Wz, Ops, Fps, New companion, New tools, planets, items, vanity items, armour, etc. Will become more frequent. It may end up being hthe same overall, but will be released in smaller patches at a more frequent rate. If nothing more to give the appearance of a stream of content. However they likely will or should come quicker, as buyable dlc or patches will be a major money maker for them once f2p launches.

 

And finally, ill laugh at all the f2p haters if Titan launches as f2p, and will be shocked if ES:O doesn't choose to launch f2p. They may have thought they'd go for a normal sub model, but like I said at the start, unless they truly believe they can blow WoW away, they best be careful and should learn from Swtors most evident failures.

[Blackavaar]

By "fail" I mean to cease operating; close; terminate.

 

Not yet as the F2P model is still relatively new to most companies but there are some games that aren't making a ton of profit doing it and have lost a huge portion of their player base and are really struggling to survive. Some continue to do updates but they have become irregular and lackluster and are always full of stuff TO BUY.

 

Really, the only ones that have been really successful with a F2P model are LoTRO, DDO and GW and even they aren't as successful as EA seems to want this game to be (WoW money, WoW money, WoW money on the brain). So, if you really think about it, SWTOR is really taking a big chance going this route. Good luck, BioWare.

 

[Sparkymark]

They've all failed imho after going F2P, but then I guess it depends on how you categorise a failure, if you mean from the perspective of a corporate crook sat counting the monies, maybe they've done ok, but from the perspective of a game player these games have become horrible. Between the use of P2W items, changing gameplay mechanics to 'encourage' pot/boost sales, selling lock boxes (which is basically a form of online gambling), the people pimping out these kinds of games are only one step above drug dealers imho.

 

And make no mistake, every single one of these games whether it is lotro, EQ2, DDO, Champions online, Aion, whatever, they all follow the same pattern. Bascially the corporate suits have a meeting and decide 'We want to screw every single customer for as much money as possible, we do not care about the integrity of the game, or game production as an artform or for fun, we want the monies and we want it now!'.

 

Basically if they could get away with it they would open up a cashstore tomorrow selling everything from top end gear, stat boosters, gambling boxes, mega items such as player / guild ships costing thousands of dollars, max level toons, raid gear specced toons, PVP gear specced toons, the list would be endless. However they know that if they just did that overnight there would be a worse outcry than we are seeing now, so they phase it in.

 

It starts with promises of 'we will only do cosmetic', a number of the subs leave anyway as they will have nothing to do with F2P games, they are more than made up for by the influx of new players. Then they annouce 'convenience' items such as XP pots and boosts, again this is a line that gets crossed for some and they leave, but there are more new players every day who don't mind. Before you know it armour and weapons, stat boosts and full on P2W items are getting considered, sure some more people will kick up a stink and leave, but there are so few left of them now that they are a vocal minority, besides, they will just get replaced by kids hopped up on ritalin and who think nothing of using Mam & Dads credit card to purchase the best gear in the game, they don't care about earning it ingame, they don't want to complete some epic questline for the latest must have mount or earn that PvP set, no, why bother with all that when they can just swipe a credit card and be done with it.

 

This whole F2P think is a big disgusting scam and these MMO developers and companies invloved should be ashamed to have anything to do with encouraging any game going down this route. I for one would be in full support of Government sanctioned monitoring and restrictions being imposed on any game that went F2P to ensure that children could not play them for a start and be exposed to online gambling, plus to ensure that these companies were accountable with regards to what they actually sell when it comes to virtual goods, I would have a strict code that all games should follow because without it these companies will just keep pushing and pushing the boundaries, and the iphone app purchasing kids of today will just keep lapping it up like the sheep they are.

 

I firmly believe the corporate scum at EA HQ would have you purchasing individual ammo packs for your weapons if they could get away with it. Infact John Riccitiello said he'd like to do as much with BF3. This is the kind of people making these decisions, they are nothing but greedy corporate suits who care nothing at all for how the game plays, they have not a shred of decency or morality about them, they just want to shake you down for the money.

 

All just my opinion which I know is most likely not popular, but there you go.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Sparkymark

[Andryah]

I firmly believe the corporate scum at EA HQ......

 

Rebel Scum? just regular old run of the mill Scum?? Or perhaps you were going for Epic Scum???

[Gruug]

I know Turbine's games made a mint, and industry analysts (read: news website bloggers) started saying the subscription model was dying out and companies would make more money by not even bothering with it anymore.

 

No, what Turbine always claims is that the number of players has increased. They have never posted (to my knowledge) any comparision of their "profits" from pre- to post-f2p.

 

I my opinion, every so-called f2p game is a fail. Either as a free player you get next to nothing and as a paying subscriber you are forced to pay for those freeloaders.

[Ashu-ri]

Keep in mind that SWTOR is going a hybrid model. It will be sub and F2P. Those people who sub will notice virtually no difference apart from a monthly allocation of Cartel Points.

 

What TOR has basically done is widened its potential player base by a lot.

 

DDO and LOTRO are a hybrid model, too. Turbine is making money hand over fist with the cash shop and with the new players it's brought to the game.

[Ashu-ri]

F2P is a fail.

 

F2P = Failed 2 Profit

 

And those "industry analyst" (read: the tools at mmorpg.com) promoted the business model that 90% of their advertisers have. Surprise, surprise.

 

Not quite right - the hybrid model being utilized here, and in other games, usually means more profits.

[Andryah]

Either as a free player you get next to nothing and as a paying subscriber you are forced to pay for those freeloaders.

 

Hard to buy in to the hyperbole when Freemium players only get access to old content for free. And in some MMOs, they don't even get access to all the old content. The content they get access to was long ago paid for, an largely not used by the subscribers anymore.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Andryah

[Ashu-ri]

honestly these "Expansions " are grindy content designed to push you to the "convenience" of the cash shop items to cut down the grind...its nothing more than a smokescreen for the shopping mall they have set up , no thank u , think its time to go back to console gaming and maybe rift

 

When LOTRO's ROI came out, didn't purchase anything from the cash shop to stop the grind, and didn't have a problem. Within three months had two of my three raiding toons geared out, and was halfway through a third.

[DarthTHC]

EA could have made this game successful by innovating great new features that no other game had. They proved too technically and creatively too incompetent to do that.

 

EA could have made this game successful by creating compelling end-game and PvP content. They proved too technically and managerially incompetent to do that.

 

Now EA will take this game into a microtransaction model. The purpose of this model is to give players the barest of minimums for free, then charge them a small fee each time they want to do something beyond that bare minimum.

 

Some games, when they've done this, have wound up flipping to a "pay to win" model - where the cash shop gives legitimate ingame bonuses unavailable even to subscribers.

 

I can see EA being technically, creatively, and managerially competent enough to do that.

[DarthTHC]

When LOTRO's ROI came out, didn't purchase anything from the cash shop to stop the grind, and didn't have a problem. Within three months had two of my three raiding toons geared out, and was halfway through a third.

 

EA is not Turbine. And this sure as hell isn't BioWare any more.

[xorv]

Not yet as the F2P model is still relatively new to most companies but there are some games that aren't making a ton of profit doing it and have lost a huge portion of their player base and are really struggling to survive. Some continue to do updates but they have become irregular and lackluster and are always full of stuff TO BUY.

 

Really, the only ones that have been really successful with a F2P model are LoTRO, DDO and GW and even they aren't as successful as EA seems to want this game to be (WoW money, WoW money, WoW money on the brain). So, if you really think about it, SWTOR is really taking a big chance going this route. Good luck, BioWare.

 

 

FTP isn't new by any strech only in america other wise you're you've got these guys or these guys just to name a few.

[Twisteddm]

Likely get flamed for this, but CoX seems to be doing incredibly well since it went F2P model. I know I was subbed to it for years, and stayed subbed even after the cash shop opened. If something popped up on the shop I wanted, I snagged it. Big deal. So many of you are making a huge deal out of this. It's not the end of the world.

 

I still am subbed to it, and since it's gone F2P the game has gone from strength to strength. Regular, quality updates that have substantial content while the cash shop is constantly being updated with fluff and shinies and QoL features. On top of that, since going F2P they've also introduced a fairly comprehensive raid-based endgame that is still expanding and adds significantly to the in-game storyline and lore. And the most interesting thing to my mind, after going F2P, Paragon studios had to hire more developers to replace the ones that were let go before the transition, just to keep up with the demand for new content.

 

One thing that I will mention, and I hope Bioware/EA take notice of (but probably won't) is the Paragon Rewards program. Would take too long to detail the system here, suffice to say it actually does reward players for spending money/staying subbed by allowing you to permanently unlock certain aspects of the game or gain unique rewards for your account.

[Bossa_Nova]

I still am subbed to it, and since it's gone F2P the game has gone from strength to strength. Regular, quality updates that have substantial content while the cash shop is constantly being updated with fluff and shinies and QoL features. On top of that, since going F2P they've also introduced a fairly comprehensive raid-based endgame that is still expanding and adds significantly to the in-game storyline and lore. And the most interesting thing to my mind, after going F2P, Paragon studios had to hire more developers to replace the ones that were let go before the transition, just to keep up with the demand for new content.

 

One thing that I will mention, and I hope Bioware/EA take notice of (but probably won't) is the Paragon Rewards program. Would take too long to detail the system here, suffice to say it actually does reward players for spending money/staying subbed by allowing you to permanently unlock certain aspects of the game or gain unique rewards for your account.

 

 

I was a bit disappointed to see that BW went with a sub/free model instead of the sub/premium/free model CoX has. The Paragon Rewards system would be nice to, especially if the restrictions are as severe as some have suggested here (i.e. one character, restricted to human), but like you said they probably won't look at it. There were quite a few things I wish BW would have looked to CoX for when designing the game.