[Guide] The Watchmen and Combat PvE basics

[Aurojiin]

In terms of fitting the suggestion of this guide (hovering around 30% crit chance from Strength and Rating) and given the current gear budget, the more Strength you have, the less crit rating you need. What you're saying is arbitrarily true, but what I said is conditionally true.

Well, yes, but my point is that the suggestion itself is erroneous. Final crit chance, as arktip has expressed, is really an incidental result of correct gearing. If someone has the correct amount of Critical Rating to maximise their DPS (subject to their current surge rating), they should not reduce it because they added Strength.

 

Edit: but yes, your amount of crit rating (within a reasonable range) makes very little difference ultimately.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Aurojiin

[BogyOne]

That discussion gets quite interesting.

So to know which best direction to go after caps we would need to have tool for Strengh Equivalent Points in order to know relative values of stats? I believe LagunaD put together something like that here.

 

With current gear I favor more gathering of STR and Power over other ratings because we can observe 1:1 exchange rate between Power, Crit Rtg, Surge Rtg, Accuracy Rtg e.g. on enhancements. That is simply not corresponding to their relative value coming from the formulas (i.e. linear vs. expotential).

I would like to have an option to increment all of these stats equally along DR curves but I see here little choice: 1 Power or 1 Crit/Surge/Accuracy Rtg? I am open for corrections if this conclusion is incorrect.

Edited October 8, 2012 by BogyOne

[BlznSmri]

Bumping because I've updated the first post with information regarding the relationship between the secondary stats. (The discussion that got this thread to 6 pages in the first place). I have also amended my Watchmen spec suggestions. Edited October 26, 2012 by BlznSmri

[HemiHilliard]

So what build is best for the Watchman for PVE? Can u survive with the pure DPS build for the watchman?

[BlznSmri]

So long as you're not taking avoidable damage and your healers are passable, yes, you can survive with the "pure" DPS Watchmen spec. That said I'm personally of the belief that the DPSers first priority is making sure that they aren't an unnecessary burden on the healers and that a dead dps is no dps, which is why I always recommend new Sents to pick up defensive roll, but once you're comfortable with the fight and your group, the decision is left up to the player. Edited October 29, 2012 by BlznSmri

[HemiHilliard]

So long as you're not taking avoidable damage and your healers are passable, yes, you can survive with the "pure" DPS Watchmen spec. That said I'm personally of the belief that the DPSers first priority is making sure that they aren't an unnecessary burden on the healers and that a dead dps is no dps, which is why I always recommend new Sents to pick up defensive roll, but once you're comfortable with the fight and your group, the decision is left up to the player.

 

 

What defensive role?

[BlznSmri]

What defensive role?

 

Roll, not Role

[HemiHilliard]

Roll, not Role

 

 

I meant roll sorry.

[BlznSmri]

2 point talent in the second tier of the combat tree that reduces AoE damage taken by 30%, really nice passive survivability gain.

[HemiHilliard]

2 point talent in the second tier of the combat tree that reduces AoE damage taken by 30%, really nice passive survivability gain.

 

 

Thank you!

[HemiHilliard]

2 point talent in the second tier of the combat tree that reduces AoE damage taken by 30%, really nice passive survivability gain.

 

 

Sorry but so u would say go with the 31/7/00 +3 build?

[BlznSmri]

If you're looking to get Defensive Roll, yes.

[HemiHilliard]

And for watchmen PVE how many should u put into the watchman tree before u start going into the others? Or should u put 7 into combat firs to get dual weild and defensive roll?

[BlznSmri]

If you're not max level yet I'd suggest just sticking points in Watchmen until you hit 40 and get Merciless Slash, then trow the seven points into Combat for Defensive Roll and the remaining three where you feel they'll be best used.

[HemiHilliard]

If you're not max level yet I'd suggest just sticking points in Watchmen until you hit 40 and get Merciless Slash, then trow the seven points into Combat for Defensive Roll and the remaining three where you feel they'll be best used.

 

Would I be hurting if I put the first 3 into dual wield instead?

[BlznSmri]

Not really no.

[BogyOne]

I read the ratings section and it is quite interesting result to see that Power to Crit rating has 1:1 weight in your parses. I was convinced that its 1:1 ratio on gear is not corresponding to the formulas. Hard numbers are hard numbers though.

 

If I may add a tip to use of Force Camouflage: I always use Rebuke or Saber Ward and wait til tank taunts mob of me before using Camo. Reason: I had more than 130% tank's threat when I aggroed, when tank taunts back, he/she will have 130% of my threat, i.e. >169% of tank's threat from few seconds earlier. Most often this eliminates the risk that anyone will outaggro tank again.

 

More info on Camo use and threat control in Threat Drops section here.

 

My thoughts on future itemization:

 

Starting from 27's items BW should introduce mods with relative Surge > Crit > Power to permit better (or more balanced) growth along the DR above +25%. In addition current values of Primary Stat on gear pushes us so far in Crit DR's that we would benefit more from adding combat ratings to armorings starting from 28's items instead linear growth on stats there. Plus new augments. And crystals, hehe. But that might very well make us even more overpowered.

 

Edited November 2, 2012 by BogyOne

[BlznSmri]

I read the ratings section and it is quite interesting result to see that Power to Crit rating has 1:1 weight in your parses. I was convinced that its 1:1 ratio on gear is not corresponding to the formulas. Hard numbers are hard numbers though.

.

 

If you want all the dirty details about it you're probably better off asking LagunaD or Aurojin about it. I'm a History Major, not Math... lol.

 

If I may add a tip to use of Force Camouflage: I always use Rebuke or Saber Ward and wait til tank taunts mob of me before using Camo. Reason: I had more than 130% tank's threat when I aggroed, when tank taunts back, he/she will have 130% of my threat, i.e. >169% of tank's threat from few seconds earlier. Most often this eliminates the risk that anyone will outaggro tank again.

 

More info on Camo use and threat control in Threat Drops section here.

 

While that actually is a very good tip it's been my experience that I or the other 4 Sentinels in the Guild typically pull threat at all the wrong times... An example being on Firebrand and Stormcaller using the Strat where the Tanks simply do a Taunt Swap (as opposed to a boss swap) for Incinerate, just after Double Destruction the Sentinel would sometimes accidentally pull on the first one and get cleaved with a DD stack up. That usually only happens on the first DD, but it's an example nonetheless.

Edited November 2, 2012 by BlznSmri

[arkitip]

I read the ratings section and it is quite interesting result to see that Power to Crit rating has 1:1 weight in your parses. I was convinced that its 1:1 ratio on gear is not corresponding to the formulas. Hard numbers are hard numbers though.

 

If I may add a tip to use of Force Camouflage: I always use Rebuke or Saber Ward and wait til tank taunts mob of me before using Camo. Reason: I had more than 130% tank's threat when I aggroed, when tank taunts back, he/she will have 130% of my threat, i.e. >169% of tank's threat from few seconds earlier. Most often this eliminates the risk that anyone will outaggro tank again.

 

More info on Camo use and threat control in Threat Drops section here.

 

My thoughts on future itemization:

 

Starting from 27's items BW should introduce mods with relative Surge > Crit > Power to permit better (or more balanced) growth along the DR above +25%. In addition current values of Primary Stat on gear pushes us so far in Crit DR's that we would benefit more from adding combat ratings to armorings starting from 28's items instead linear growth on stats there. Plus new augments. And crystals, hehe. But that might very well make us even more overpowered.

 

 

It was my parsing data that Blzn used for the 1:1 power vs. crit numbers. It's not the largest sample size but I did 20 parses with 164 crit rating and 1065 power (stimmed) and 20 parses with 328 crit rating and 901 power. 20 parses in Combat, 20 in Watchman (10 per gear set-up).

 

In Combat my average DPS was nearly identical, literally 2 DPS difference. In Watchman I had a 1.3% DPS increase using 328 crit rating.

 

Since Sentinel and Marauder gear is stacked with crit, it makes sense to just keep yourself from going above 328 crit rather than extensively modifying your gear on the idea of Crit chance %.

[BogyOne]

Thanks to BlznSmri's guide and arktip's input with logs and discussion here I managed to find some hidden reserve of DPS while testing on dummy, plus I have better clarity how to progress with gear upgrades.

 

Many thanks!!!

 

I know that there are few more % to squeeze there, e.g. better timing of Zen - it is good to have something to work towards.

 

PS. how this thread can get Sticky?

Edited November 7, 2012 by BogyOne

[BlznSmri]

I would say spam the community service droids, but I doubt that would end well lol. Edited November 7, 2012 by BlznSmri

[Atlanis]

To your Wachman Stats in the guide:

 

The Spec ist totally ok, but:

 

You shall not lie to the pupils you see^^

 

My approach:

 

I am a Crit Stacked Sentinel!

(Now freeze in shock and do what ever you do when in schock:rak_01)

 

Aka I got 2229 Strength and 556 Crit stacked which make roundabout 50 (Crit Force) [-6% for Melee Cri]

Accuracy is 100%

Multiplier is 76%

 

To the Point DPS is without Adrenals in T4 full around 1750-1800 with 50% T4.5 (no weapons yet!) I am always over 1800 DPS without Adrenals;-) Stacking Power you do the same or even 5-10 DPS more if you have lucky proccs, but now comes the thing, that makes the Crit Wachman powerfull.

 

He can heal easily 400-500 HPS in a fight aka 1.000.000 HP healed in Kephess Asation HC Boss fight, a Wachman that prioritises Power lands at around max. 200k HP healed aka ignorable. If I look at bossfight were ther is a lot of spread DMG (example Second Boss Asation HC) the Crit Wachman is great, because he is a DD that doesn´t need Heals in most cases.

The Problem with a Crit Stacking is, that you HAVE TO KNOW YOUR CLASS aka you fail your DPS dump to the ground:D

[Atlanis]

Because, for Watchmen Spec with 35% crit fully buffed and 5 stacks of Juyo form your Burns will have a 50% chance to crit (56% if you take Insight) and for Combat more than 35% crit is unnecessary in terms of DPS gains. .

 

Wrong, you have a 50% Chance of your DoTs to Crit;-)

And wrong, see my firrst post above^^

[BogyOne]

He can heal easily 400-500 HPS in a fight aka 1.000.000 HP healed in Kephess Asation HC Boss fight, a Wachman that prioritises Power lands at around max. 200k HP healed aka ignorable. If I look at bossfight were ther is a lot of spread DMG (example Second Boss Asation HC) the Crit Wachman is great, because he is a DD that doesn´t need Heals in most cases.

There has been discussion of Combat/Carnage against Watchman/Annihiliation and one good argument was: Watchman healing is not an advantage to bank upon. There are dedicated healers on this task and our HoTs contribute to their overhealing and to our threat. Healers will do their job whether Sentinel heals or not.

 

Bottomline, it is really nice bonus but noone sane will bank on Sentinels to do the healing during Ops.

 

Besides, not boring you with calculations, if you convert Crit Rtg to Power to have 35% buffed crit (~280 rating at 2230 STR) you would probably gain 5% more end damage from every Crit Rtg point converted to Power.

At least my quick calculation says so and I do not even throw in all that wasted crit over 100% during Zen which you have now (~133%).

Edited November 8, 2012 by BogyOne

[BlznSmri]

Wrong, you have a 50% Chance of your DoTs to Crit;-)

And wrong, see my firrst post above^^

 

That is literally exactly what I said.

 

The healing from the Burns is nice, but Crit for watchmen is rather unimportant because of the 20-30% up-time of Zen, making your abilities auto crit.