Concerns: Talent-based long-term roots (off knock-back)

[L-RANDLE]

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what everyone is saying, but I'm under the impression that roots CAN be cleansed st anytime. You just have to have the right cleanse. I think it takes a sorc/sage to remove the sorc/sage knockback root.

 

Only our cc breaker. Our cleanse does not break any root.

[DCVAN]

Only our cc breaker. Our cleanse does not break any root.

 

I'm pretty sure I cleanse force roots all of the time. I guess it could be breaking at the same time I'm cleansing (I'm not the fastest cleanser in the world). I know I can't cleanse sniper roots though. I'm a sage btw.

[SinnedWill]

Sorry if I derail this thread a bit, but my sage was get owned by a Mara yesterday and i have a question. I usually don't have too many problems with maras but this one seemed to catch me without a knockback or stun and his ravage would own me. I know my healer sage can cleanse Mara snares but can i cleanse carnage maras root ravage? If not, then it was just a smart Mara to wait until i had blown my knockback and stun.

 

Not sure if the ravage root can be "cleansed", but I know the charge root and the deadly throw roots can be. Yes, he was a smart carnage marauder. Smart carnage marauders will watch for targets to use every possible counter before doing a gore-procced ravage or wait to use it until they've been resolve-capped.

[Astarica]

The root/knockback is supposed to be a form of ghetto mez, i.e. gets rid of the enemy (if they're melee) but only if no one else touch them. I see nothing wrong with their implementation. If there's something that causes the root to last longer than intended that should be fixed though I've no reason to believe this is currently the case.

[SinnedWill]

Only our cc breaker. Our cleanse does not break any root.

 

Sorc/Sage purge/cleanse remove many root effects - only ones it won't remove (if heal-specced with the talent) are tech-based roots (i.e. sniper's cover pulse, DPS operative's root) and then... sorc/sage knockback + root (bugged, I think, since I cannot dispel it on any of my toons).

[SinnedWill]

The root/knockback is supposed to be a form of ghetto mez, i.e. gets rid of the enemy (if they're melee) but only if no one else touch them. I see nothing wrong with their implementation. If there's something that causes the root to last longer than intended that should be fixed though I've no reason to believe this is currently the case.

 

Pretty sure it's the only root effect in the game that cannot be dispelled (it can be broken with your stun-break or when damaged after 2s) via ops/scound/sorc/sage/merc/commando dispelling abilities - all other roots can - only exception might be the root attached to ravage for a carnage marauder.

 

Also, bubble-mez is the "ghetto-mez" for countering melees. AoE knockback + root is something... extra; not only is it effective defensively (combine this with force speed and you have a great exit strategy), but it's also good for strategic application (i.e. tank guarding healer - use this to split them apart, potentially beyond guard range and many tanks can't do much to "peel" attackers off his healer while rooted).

Edited July 30, 2012 by SinnedWill

[Astarica]

Pretty sure it's the only root effect in the game that cannot be dispelled (it can be broken with your stun-break or when damaged after 2s) via ops/scound/sorc/sage/merc/commando dispelling abilities - all other roots can - only exception might be the root attached to ravage for a carnage marauder.

 

Well some root seems to be the 'nothing' type which means they can't be dispelled the same way raid mechanisms cannot be always be removed because that'd make it too easy so nothing wrong with that.

 

I'm talking about the case say a root is suposed to break after 2 seconds if damaged and otherwise lasts 5 seconds is lasting the full 5 seconds without breaking. I've no idea if this is happening because there's way too many things happening when I get rooted in combat, but that's the only issue I can see with roots being overpowered if it was somehow possible to continue doing damage to someone without breaking the root after the 2 second period. There's no reason for me to believe this is true, but I wouldn't be surprised if you tell me some bug is making this possible too.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Astarica

[DCVAN]

Sorc/Sage purge/cleanse remove many root effects - only ones it won't remove (if heal-specced with the talent) are tech-based roots (i.e. sniper's cover pulse, DPS operative's root) and then... sorc/sage knockback + root (bugged, I think, since I cannot dispel it on any of my toons).

Interesting. I'll have to test the sorc knockback root when i get off of work. If all of the other roots can be cleansed, i don't see why the sorc knockback shouldn't be able to unless it is bugged.

 

And thank you for answering my other question about the carnage marauder. I think i may have been dps when i was fighting him anyways so it wouldn't have mattered. I should have just started casting deliverance to negate some of that damage or make him quit channeling to interrupt.

[Smashbrother]

JK leap's root cannot be cleansed by anyone. It's one of those things that aren't classified as a physical, tech, force, or mental ability.

[SinnedWill]

Well some root seems to be the 'nothing' type which means they can't be dispelled the same way raid mechanisms cannot be always be removed because that'd make it too easy so nothing wrong with that.

 

I'm talking about the case say a root is suposed to break after 2 seconds if damaged and otherwise lasts 5 seconds is lasting the full 5 seconds without breaking. I've no idea if this is happening because there's way too many things happening when I get rooted in combat, but that's the only issue I can see with roots being overpowered if it was somehow possible to continue doing damage to someone without breaking the root after the 2 second period. There's no reason for me to believe this is true, but I wouldn't be surprised if you tell me some bug is making this possible too.

 

Could be a combination of many things: if only one person has used a root that breaks on damage after 2s (maximum duration is 5s) and you're not able to move when you have taken damage after 2s, it could be a result of server-side lag - i.e. your flytext damage visuals appeared later than the attacks actually occured (you can take damage in the first 2s of these roots and the root will still last full duration-5s- if you aren't attacked after that 2s window). ... or, it's always possible that you are getting chain-rooted - sniper/gunslinger aoe KB + root is the only method that doesn't actually deal damage, all others DO. For instance, say you're got cover-pulsed by a sniper, then the sniper auto-attacked you (still within 2s, so root will still last until 5s, mind you) - sniper then throws explosive probe (doesn't deal damage on you, so you're still rooted), then uses snipe (1.5s activated) immediately followed by legshot (activated ability -> instant ability causes both abilities' damage/effects to register at the same time) - now, the damage you would take from that snipe + explosive probe would've broken the root effect, unfortunately, leg shot (which does damage as well) would cause you to be rooted... again (hense the term "chain-rooted")

[Mistrunnerx]

i do not think rootsshould generatr resolve - but theyy should respect a full resolvebar. that bar is completly neglected at the moment with to many cc effects simply ignoring it - like roots.

 

This exactly. It's just plain stupid in huttball when you are trying to score and running across the firepit WITH A FULL RESOLVE BAR while two gunslingers/snipers just sit there and root you until the fire returns. Even if they only make roots respect the resolve bar in huttball would be fine but right now a root is just as good as a stun in the fire.

[Udo_Jokyar]

This exactly. It's just plain stupid in huttball when you are trying to score and running across the firepit WITH A FULL RESOLVE BAR while two gunslingers/snipers just sit there and root you until the fire returns. Even if they only make roots respect the resolve bar in huttball would be fine but right now a root is just as good as a stun in the fire.

if they were cleansable, then this would not even be discussed, as your healer (assuming they're smart) will just cleanse you and get you over the line. which is why i suggest that the long-duration roots are cleansable after 2 seconds (to keep them still more valuable to be used, vs short term-roots whilst not leaving them in this current state) - if u make them completely cleansable then you need to do it to every leap in the game and the sabre throw root as well, which i dont think is justified, because they all serve a purpose that is justifiable. if they were all cleansable it would be like warriors in WoW and we don't want that. leaps work fine atm, what i want to see fixed is the these (potentially) 5 second roots becoming cleansable - at least for the last 3 seconds (when its a mezz) as opposed to the 2 second root, which in many cases is used as an effective stun when applied tactically.

making sure its not cleansed in the first 2 seconds keeps it tactically sound, but cleansable after the 2 seconds means that its not as "broken" as it is now, where its totally abusable.

[GizmoBill]

Roots are fine.

 

bloody roots

[Evil_Santa]

OP plays a melee class and is mad that he was stopped from ganking a sorc by a root. Doesn't realize that this is the only form of defense that ranged classes have from melee classes and is on a longer CD then his gap closer.

 

Nothing to see here.

 

if they were cleansable, then this would not even be discussed, as your healer (assuming they're smart) will just cleanse you and get you over the line. which is why i suggest that the long-duration roots are cleansable after 2 seconds (to keep them still more valuable to be used, vs short term-roots whilst not leaving them in this current state) - if u make them completely cleansable then you need to do it to every leap in the game and the sabre throw root as well, which i dont think is justified, because they all serve a purpose that is justifiable. if they were all cleansable it would be like warriors in WoW and we don't want that. leaps work fine atm, what i want to see fixed is the these (potentially) 5 second roots becoming cleansable - at least for the last 3 seconds (when its a mezz) as opposed to the 2 second root, which in many cases is used as an effective stun when applied tactically.

making sure its not cleansed in the first 2 seconds keeps it tactically sound, but cleansable after the 2 seconds means that its not as "broken" as it is now, where its totally abusable.

 

Bring a sorc, have them extricate you across the line/out of the root. Problem solved.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Evil_Santa

[Darpvaida]

dear Bioware,

I cannot believe as a melee destroyer it should take more than 4 globals to kill any caster, should he be fortunate enough to knock me away, I then have to press an extra button before i get to stomp him.

PLEASE FIX THIS.. IT'S JUST SO UNFAIR.

[warultima]

dear Bioware,

I cannot believe as a melee destroyer it should take more than 4 globals to kill any caster, should he be fortunate enough to knock me away, I then have to press an extra button before i get to stomp him.

PLEASE FIX THIS.. IT'S JUST SO UNFAIR.

 

Yea operative should still get to 2GCD kill any ranged! God forbids a burst class doing burst...

 

and oh and make railshot spammable again... the 6sec ICD is just stupid

People need to L2P.

Edited July 31, 2012 by warultima

[kjkdollarbanny]

hmm I am afraid that we do have knock back with root. Not only it knock backs and roots its also AoE.

 

(lol he said L2P)

 

i have full wh sliner and full BM sniper. and pulse detonator not root, its only knockback. to root+ knockback you need use pulse detonator and lef shot.

(lol he tryed to catched me, but catched his mom in shower instead)

[dcgregorya]

i have full wh sliner and full BM sniper. and pulse detonator not root, its only knockback. to root+ knockback you need use pulse detonator and lef shot.

(lol he tryed to catched me, but catched his mom in shower instead)

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/20laLPc/pulse-detonator

http://www.torhead.com/ability/buhxjod/cover-pulse

Edited July 31, 2012 by dcgregorya

[kjkdollarbanny]

http://www.torhead.com/ability/20laLPc/pulse-detonator

http://www.torhead.com/ability/buhxjod/cover-pulse

 

ye, was wrong, just logged on gs and seen.

[warultima]

ye, was wrong, just logged on gs and seen.

 

School is good for you. Stay in school.

[ArchangelLBC]

OP seems to believe there should be no CCing at all in PVP. GIve us all boss immunity so it's just DPS spamming abilities.

 

Melee have so many gap closers in this game.

 

If anything the Commandos need to be able to talent their knockback to root as well. Only ranged class with no base snare or root. Just an RNG snare in Assault and a talented self rooting snare in Gunnery.

Edited July 31, 2012 by ArchangelLBC

[PloGreen]

its not the root that generates the resolve, its the knock-back that leads into the root -and the root is uncleansable, regardless of whether u are a force user or tech user - this needs fixing, because this is the broken bit - the fact that the root is longer than 2 seconds anyway should mean there would be extra resolve attached, but its not because the resolve is based off the root spell not the actual combined effects - do u understand?

 

my argument is more the fact that these talents are force or tech effects and are not cleansable under either - this is the problem as i see it.

 

There is no problem, sage aoe knockback is a mezz that breaks on damage. Its purpose is stop melee trains from gang banging your sage to death, and to give us a gap to force speed through, (or useful for keeping people in fire pits in huttball).

 

Melee dont need any more band-aids than they were given in 1.2 tyvm. Try playing a sage at top level and you will see why an aoe knockback or bubble mezz stun can be crucial for survival of the squishiest class in the game. Both are mezz not true hard stun.

[PloGreen]

This exactly. It's just plain stupid in huttball when you are trying to score and running across the firepit WITH A FULL RESOLVE BAR while two gunslingers/snipers just sit there and root you until the fire returns. Even if they only make roots respect the resolve bar in huttball would be fine but right now a root is just as good as a stun in the fire.

 

Thats why you can pass the ball. Since you know the ball cannot be rooted.

[Udo_Jokyar]

the principle problem here is that the game currently allows for several players to be rooted for 5 seconds at a time, four times in a row, before they hit full resolve, which is beyond ridiculous. In practice it wont happen, due to other reasons, but it is broken in this sense.

 

i hate repeating myself. being rooted by aoe for up to 20 seconds by just four spells is something i think should be fixed.

 

its not just applicable when your the team receiving this on offense - mind you, one extricate per sorc/sage is NOT going to get you that far - assuming your sorc/sage can even get into a useful position without having 2 dps on them at all times blocking their positioning, it does not kill the root, and given the knockback does not result in a lot of resolve, you will likely be both caught, and hit by more CC before you can get on your way again.

 

im not saying remove it, im saying, make it less ridiculous, more manageable. atm a current scenario when you are the defending team, is that you have 5-6 on their ball carrier, and one of these spells results in your entire team that is in range to assist being locked out of the chase for long enough for the enemy team to get a free capture. even if you have grapples/pulls, you still lose so much time in getting back onto the ball carrier - which would be fine if it would only be applicable twice (like the big aoe capacitates, like awe for eg).

the same is applicable of novare coast, where you can single handedly knock up to 8 people out of LoS of capture points for long enough for merely 2 people to cap the node.

 

understand this, this utility is what makes many sages viable atm, due to other factors - but this is not the 2 second roots of jedi/sith leaps, it is a potential 5 second root, which is why i aim to have THIS kind of mezz addressed, but the resolve cant afford to be increased because that unbalances other things. what im saying is, make it cleansable after the first 2 seconds, so it allows people to play smart and profit from it, reducing the huge potential for this kind of spell combination, and keeping it in line with other spells, without removing its intentional utility,

[PloGreen]

i hate repeating myself. being rooted by aoe for up to 20 seconds by just four spells is something i think should be fixed.

 

its not just applicable when your the team receiving this on offense - mind you, one extricate per sorc/sage is NOT going to get you that far - assuming your sorc/sage can even get into a useful position without having 2 dps on them at all times blocking their positioning, it does not kill the root, and given the knockback does not result in a lot of resolve, you will likely be both caught, and hit by more CC before you can get on your way again.

 

im not saying remove it, im saying, make it less ridiculous, more manageable. atm a current scenario when you are the defending team, is that you have 5-6 on their ball carrier, and one of these spells results in your entire team that is in range to assist being locked out of the chase for long enough for the enemy team to get a free capture. even if you have grapples/pulls, you still lose so much time in getting back onto the ball carrier - which would be fine if it would only be applicable twice (like the big aoe capacitates, like awe for eg).

the same is applicable of novare coast, where you can single handedly knock up to 8 people out of LoS of capture points for long enough for merely 2 people to cap the node.

 

understand this, this utility is what makes many sages viable atm, due to other factors - but this is not the 2 second roots of jedi/sith leaps, it is a potential 5 second root, which is why i aim to have THIS kind of mezz addressed, but the resolve cant afford to be increased because that unbalances other things. what im saying is, make it cleansable after the first 2 seconds, so it allows people to play smart and profit from it, reducing the huge potential for this kind of spell combination, and keeping it in line with other spells, without removing its intentional utility,

 

No offense but this a learn to play and teamwork issue - nothing more.