Ravashakk Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 This has really gone on long enough. Why bioware thinks giving a tank class the ability to aoe slow at NO COST with NO COOLDOWN is a good idea is beyond me. I hate seeing nerf threads but come on, at the very least give it a short cooldown or rage cost. No reason why it exists in its current form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 It's for two talent points... it's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Individual Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) It's for two talent points... it's fine. Becuase they can put two talent points into it makes it fine?. A jugg and healer can literally lock down a team for a while with the jugg spamming that ability nonstop. Edited July 28, 2012 by Individual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpsmash Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Becuase they can put two talent points into it makes it fine?. A jugg and healer can literally lock down a team for a while with the jugg spamming that ability nonstop. What difference does it make if he spams it or not? It doesn't stack and lasts for what, 8 seconds? If it wasn't free, he'd just do it after every saber swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I always assume AE slows are free so that you don't have to worry about people get behind you due to MMORPG makers are still too stupid to incorporate things like collision detection or that turning speed is supposed to be inversely proportion to your moving speed (i.e. faster you're moving the harder it is to turn, try it in real life). In EQ1, a game where you can pretty much kite anyone forever, in PvP tournament they just toss out unresistable AE slows so that you don't have two guys running around for an hour and it's kind of the same effect in SWTOR. Now of course realistically free AE slows are dumb, and that includes Wither, but until MMORPG makers figured out what TIE Fighter versus X-Wing did 10 years ago (you turn slower at top speed so you can almost never get behind someone at max speed. To get behind someone you must slow down but of course that has its own disadvantages) I'll accept that as a necessary evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 more classes need free spammable aoe snares ... i want my pool hatred permanent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravashakk Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 It's for two talent points... it's fine. Granted the ability in question is really only game breaking OP in void star where ppl are forced to go down narrow corridors. In a recent void star that caused me to create this thread, my team (6 pugs) demolished the opposing team in round 1, capping everything with a minute or so left. They couldn't hang with us while fighting, and barely could stop us from capping anything. But in round 2 they got the first door (don't get me started on the fail of some pugs in my group) and because no one on our team was dying, they were able to cc/slow the entire way to the second door, which was already capped. They did the same thing to the final door, but the bridge is the only place that you can suicide to get ahead without abusing /stuck. You can say we got "outplayed" based solely on this 1 ability, but anyone with a brain knows that a monkey hitting 1 button while autorunning is not outplaying ****. I mean, props to the guy who did it, just using what bioware is giving him. However, my team was clearly the better team overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielHex Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) You can say we got "outplayed". You did. There's the truth of it. my team was clearly the better team overall. You weren't. You lost. Edited July 29, 2012 by RazielHex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yurie Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 What difference does it make if he spams it or not? It doesn't stack and lasts for what, 8 seconds? If it wasn't free, he'd just do it after every saber swing. 1 person runs to you - aoe slow , 2 others run past you - aoe slow , 2 more - AOE slow, 3 left - AOE slow, oops whole team slowed. If it was on cd he could only slow 1-2 people. Saying it's ok becouse it dosnt stack would be like saying AOE stuns were ok if they woudnt have a CD, they dont stack either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyderQuanTy Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 this is also very effective in civil war. The jug is guarding the mid in Civil War and the opposing team is holdn the 2 sides. Jump off the mid bridge slow the guys trying to run to the other side if u have unremitant u can holde off 4 or 5 long enough to cap doesnot show in the medals columb but it gives your team a win. I have sone this more than once. PS i dont even have the free focus talented as vigilance the 1 focus it costs me is no big deal. Also look at the total damage of the Jug /guardians one slow is hardly game breaking nerf opperatives and maraders sorcers assains powertech snipers and mercs while u r at it do wont any one feeling left out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScrubinMuhTub Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Really the problem is in Voidstar, in the countless games where one Juggernaut and his healer friend spam aoe slow an entire team. There isn't any number of 5second cd cleanses you can use to keep up with no cooldown AOE snare. Even a 6 second cooldown would do nothing but remove the 'overpoweredness' of the ability. It's really gamebreaking in Voidstar, and pretty much Voidstar alone, and should be addressed. I'm just tired of one single keybound ability winning an entire warzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besbin Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Yeah I have to agree with this. Happened to me a few times in VS. Is a total pain in all warzones as melee dps though to be honest for something that is so easy to apply. I am amazed that I don't encounter it more often. Dps guardians/jugs hardly ever seem to cast it in my experience. Just as well! If I was playing one I sure would use a couple of focus to lay this down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielHex Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Yeah I have to agree with this. Happened to me a few times in VS. Is a total pain in all warzones as melee dps though to be honest for something that is so easy to apply. I am amazed that I don't encounter it more often. Dps guardians/jugs hardly ever seem to cast it in my experience. Just as well! If I was playing one I sure would use a couple of focus to lay this down. It's an Immortal-spec talent. So only Tanks would use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besbin Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 It's an Immortal-spec talent. So only Tanks would use it. No, the ability is open to all jug/guards. The talent simply removes the focus cost. So, as stated, I think it would be worth a dps jug sacrificing a couple of focus points to cast this at an opportune moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielHex Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 No, the ability is open to all jug/guards. The talent simply removes the focus cost. So, as stated, I think it would be worth a dps jug sacrificing a couple of focus points to cast this at an opportune moment. It's a tier 2 talent. It would cost 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besbin Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 It's a tier 2 talent. It would cost 7. Mate, it is a base ability for all guardians/jugs. You dont have to SPEC for it in any way. Speccing into the ability in the defense tree simply removes the FOCUS cost. Don't know how I could explain it more clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykomyke Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 It's a tier 2 talent. It would cost 7. Correct. The only I see with the talent is that no matter your spec it's easily accessible to all 3 trees. If your Immortal, it's an easy talent to pick up on the way to the top. If your Vengeance, it's not that hard to put 7 points into immortal, and then 3 extra into rage. If your Rage spec, it's not that hard for you to put 3 points into single saber mastery in vengeance and then the other 7 into Immortal. In reality it's too easily accessible. All that needs to be done is move it up a tier in the tank tree and problem solved. Now the only class that has it (not counting any hybrids) are pure tanks in PvP. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besbin Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Correct. The only I see with the talent is that no matter your spec it's easily accessible to all 3 trees. If your Immortal, it's an easy talent to pick up on the way to the top. If your Vengeance, it's not that hard to put 7 points into immortal, and then 3 extra into rage. If your Rage spec, it's not that hard for you to put 3 points into single saber mastery in vengeance and then the other 7 into Immortal. In reality it's too easily accessible. All that needs to be done is move it up a tier in the tank tree and problem solved. Now the only class that has it (not counting any hybrids) are pure tanks in PvP. Problem solved. Arrrrgh it is a base class ability for guardians. All guardians/jugs get an area of effect snare at level 12. The guardian version is called 'freezing force' I believe. This means ALL jugs/guardians can use it at will. You do not even need to spend ONE talent point into the defence tree. Speccing it simply removes the 2 action points required to cast it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielHex Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Mate, it is a base ability for all guardians/jugs. You dont have to SPEC for it in any way. Speccing into the ability in the defense tree simply removes the FOCUS cost. Don't know how I could explain it more clearly. You're not even in the same conversation man. We're talking about the talent to make it completely free, and thus spammable. It's not really spammable if it costs two rage now, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryRow Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Did it not occur to any of you people that if 1 tank and 1 healer are cooperating to AoE slow 6 people, then it means you are fighting 6 v 2!!! Maybe, just maybe, you should focus fire one of them and go about your business? Or go to the door without the bomb so you'll have a clear run to the bridges/force fields? Or just /stuck like the less competent teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besbin Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 You're not even in the same conversation man. We're talking about the talent to make it completely free, and thus spammable. It's not really spammable if it costs two rage now, is it? Damn my perfectly innocent comment in my original reply simply stated that I was surprised that dps jugs dont seem to use it at all when it is a very useful ability that is still available to them. Subsequent reples to rhis were stating that dps wouldnt use it as it is a tank only ability. It isnt. /facepalm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beattlebilly Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) Granted the ability in question is really only game breaking OP in void star where ppl are forced to go down narrow corridors. In a recent void star that caused me to create this thread, my team (6 pugs) demolished the opposing team in round 1, capping everything with a minute or so left. They couldn't hang with us while fighting, and barely could stop us from capping anything. But in round 2 they got the first door(don't get me started on the fail of some pugs in my group) and because no one on our team was dying, they were able to cc/slow the entire way to the second door, which was already capped. They did the same thing to the final door, but the bridge is the only place that you can suicide to get ahead without abusing /stuck. You can say we got "outplayed" based solely on this 1 ability, but anyone with a brain knows that a monkey hitting 1 button while autorunning is not outplaying ****. I mean, props to the guy who did it, just using what bioware is giving him. However, my team was clearly the better team overall. No, you got outplayed because of some of the fail pugs on your team, slows, and an opposing team that knows the importance of when to kill and when to CC. Edited July 29, 2012 by beattlebilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairyzac Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Did it not occur to any of you people that if 1 tank and 1 healer are cooperating to AoE slow 6 people, then it means you are fighting 6 v 2!!! Maybe, just maybe, you should focus fire one of them and go about your business? Or go to the door without the bomb so you'll have a clear run to the bridges/force fields? Or just /stuck like the less competent teams. You can't just focus them down. A tank spec'd jugg and a healer with guard and you want to just focus them down and go about your business? When moving down the tunnel just beyond the first door in Voidstar, if you stop to attempt to kill the jugg+heals you are playing right into their hands anyway. You are now costing your team a victory since instead of moving down the tunnel to stop the jugg+healer's team from planting, you are now sitting there trying to kill a jugg with cds popped and a guarded healer healing him. And in regards to going through the door without the bomb on it. It will take time just to shift over there, and then the bridge won't be down once you get through the tunnel, the other one will be. So they will be forced to shift RIGHT back to the other side since that is the only bridge that will be down. A giant waste of time that accomplishes nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_Kimmo Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I personally haven't seen a single team that has been "locked down" due to me spamming Freezing Force. I think the classic three words are appropriate here: L2P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryRow Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 You can't just focus them down. A tank spec'd jugg and a healer with guard and you want to just focus them down and go about your business? When moving down the tunnel just beyond the first door in Voidstar, if you stop to attempt to kill the jugg+heals you are playing right into their hands anyway. You are now costing your team a victory since instead of moving down the tunnel to stop the jugg+healer's team from planting, you are now sitting there trying to kill a jugg with cds popped and a guarded healer healing him. And in regards to going through the door without the bomb on it. It will take time just to shift over there, and then the bridge won't be down once you get through the tunnel, the other one will be. So they will be forced to shift RIGHT back to the other side since that is the only bridge that will be down. A giant waste of time that accomplishes nothing. If you can't kill 1 guy with 6 guys, and you can't see that slowly running is worse than stopping to burst an opponent and then quickly running, there is really no hope for you. You have 20 seconds before the bomb explodes to decide where you need to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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