People Need Some Perspective

[Jabadehutt]

I'm tired of everybody complaining about this game. This is bad, this is buggy, this is unfair, this isn't to my liking. People . . . get real this game is 7 months old, already with a million (roughly) subs. I know for a fact that World of Warcraft (the greatest mmo out there) did not start out completely polished and with 10 million subs. There were tons of bugs, issues, server down times, quests leading to nowhere. People need to realize games aren't perfect at launch . . . especially mmo's. Things take time to become what they are, then when they seem like they are on top, they fall (world of warcraft now). This game has so much room for improvement the devs are constantly fixing issues at a rapid pace, if your complaining about too much maintenance, ur stupid how else are they going to fix issues? This game has already broken all other mmo records at launch and sub holder for first 6th months (even beat wow). Games don't usually take off until their first expansion or sequel anyway (cod1? psh nobody played that it wasn't untill cod4 they became a real franchise). All I'm asking is for people to take this game into perspective before you bash on it. I think this game is headed in the right way and hopefully i wont be let down.

 

Keep up the good work bioware the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Keep it going

 

p.s. for the grammar police, sorry if I made some mistakes and missed some commas.

[Keta]

There have been a lot of threads started by people saying the exact same thing you have. The short version of the various answers boils down to SWTOR isn't competing with WoW 10 years ago, it's competing against WoW (and others) as they exist today. Game designers and developers need to ponder that because their paying customers certainly do.

[Jabadehutt]

Yes I completely agree with you, but as I see it (as a long time wow player) they are beginning to run themselves into the ground. I can already tell that SWTOR has a much better tech support team than Blizzard and I remember that was a big deal when I played. I guess only time will tell tho.

[TUXs]

Keep up the good work bioware the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Keep it going

 

Who do you classify as "the many"? The majority of people who bought and quit? Or the few who still play? We've lost over half the people...so "the many" is sure as hell not you if you're still playing.

[Kanshan]

Who do you classify as "the many"? The majority of people who bought and quit? Or the few who still play? We've lost over half the people...so "the many" is sure as hell not you if you're still playing.

 

Got numbers to back that up or just rambling on?

[Jabadehutt]

There are still roughly a million subscribers that's quite a lot, and the few are the people who are posting threads telling Bioware dumb things like I don't like populated servers . . pvp is not fair it takes to long to get gear, stuff like that.

 

and yes . . . I do still play, and I will continue to play for a long time

[Hajizan]

There have been a lot of threads started by people saying the exact same thing you have. The short version of the various answers boils down to SWTOR isn't competing with WoW 10 years ago, it's competing against WoW (and others) as they exist today. Game designers and developers need to ponder that because their paying customers certainly do.

^^^^^ X 10 I have not played for over a month, lurk the forums from time to time to find out if anything has improved. I guess when the six month sub (yep I am an idiot) I bought runs out I will stop even coming to the forums.

Because the game is DEAD.

[Zhauric]

Keep up the good work Bioware?

 

As another poster stated, what WoW did back in the day is irrelevant but since you wish to go there...did WoW lose more than 50% of it's box sales in retention? Umm...no. ToR has. That isn't good work Bioware. You aim for no more than 20%. You have to be seeing things through rose colored glasses if you really think they are doing a good job.

 

Seven months in you still see some of the same bugs you saw in beta and that is a good job? Bugs that some of the consumer base reported time and time again? Seven months in some basic features of a mmo that some have requested aren't on. Instead they are fed the line 'Will be available relatively soon'. Of course Bioware said this about certain features like five months ago relatively soon in their book is way different than the next persons.

 

And when you have to close so many servers you are not doing a good job. Did they make too many? Initially they had enough then added more servers in January. But they didn't add THAT many new servers to requires the obvious mergers they just went through. In other words they lost a heck of a lot of players. They sold 2.4 boxes initially so obviously have less than 50% of that.

 

Granted if you think they have a million subs you are kidding yourself. The 1.3 reported was inflated as is with trials and those they granted free time to as it was stated that number was reported as of the time of the report for the quarterly reports and not the subs at the end of the quarter. Some folks are really reaching and need to be more objective. The facts are what they are.

[Jabadehutt]

Keep up the good work Bioware?

 

As another poster stated, what WoW did back in the day is irrelevant but since you wish to go there...did WoW lose more than 50% of it's box sales in retention? Umm...no. ToR has. That isn't good work Bioware. You aim for no more than 20%. You have to be seeing things through rose colored glasses if you really think they are doing a good job.

 

Seven months in you still see some of the same bugs you saw in beta and that is a good job? Bugs that some of the consumer base reported time and time again? Seven months in some basic features of a mmo that some have requested aren't on. Instead they are fed the line 'Will be available relatively soon'. Of course Bioware said this about certain features like five months ago relatively soon in their book is way different than the next persons.

 

And when you have to close so many servers you are not doing a good job. Did they make too many? Initially they had enough then added more servers in January. But they didn't add THAT many new servers to requires the obvious mergers they just went through. In other words they lost a heck of a lot of players. They sold 2.4 boxes initially so obviously have less than 50% of that.

 

Granted if you think they have a million subs you are kidding yourself. The 1.3 reported was inflated as is with trials and those they granted free time to as it was stated that number was reported as of the time of the report for the quarterly reports and not the subs at the end of the quarter. Some folks are really reaching and need to be more objective. The facts are what they are.

 

Ok what "bugs" are you talking about that are still around since beta? Care to elaborate? also I never said roughly over a million what I meant was under . . . Also . . . how many subs did wow have 7 months after launch how many boxes did they sell? How many bugs did they fix since launch? Like I said before . . . things take time to perfect . . wow is over 10 years old and SWTOR is only 7 months . . what your arguing is (i might make some people mad) trying to explain evolution by looking at the human race . . . evolution takes billions of years to work (wow) SWTOR is only thousands of years (human race).

[Raiffiel]

Keep up the good work Bioware?

ya, good work, it's a human expression most trolls don't understand.

 

As another poster stated, what WoW did back in the day is irrelevant but since you wish to go there...did WoW lose more than 50% of it's box sales in retention? Umm...no. ToR has. That isn't good work Bioware. You aim for no more than 20%. You have to be seeing things through rose colored glasses if you really think they are doing a good job.

 

Most games go into development YEARS before release. No one knows while in development, what features players will want. WoW released the LFG tool when this game was in development, and that's not something you just slap together during that time. WoW didn't lose the box sales for a simple reason, it was the AoL of MMOs. Previous game required alot more thought than WoW, just to log in. WoW was the first MMO that you could log in and be awesome in a hour.

Seven months in you still see some of the same bugs you saw in beta and that is a good job? Bugs that some of the consumer base reported time and time again? Seven months in some basic features of a mmo that some have requested aren't on. Instead they are fed the line 'Will be available relatively soon'. Of course Bioware said this about certain features like five months ago relatively soon in their book is way different than the next persons.

Most the Beta bugs are gone, those still around are fairly few and easily worked around. As I said in the previous paragraph, they are catching up with player needs as fast as they reasonably can.

 

And when you have to close so many servers you are not doing a good job. Did they make too many? Initially they had enough then added more servers in January. But they didn't add THAT many new servers to requires the obvious mergers they just went through. In other words they lost a heck of a lot of players. They sold 2.4 boxes initially so obviously have less than 50% of that.

Server closures were due to a overexpectation on their part. They made server capacities too big and far too many servers. As player drop off occured (which is normal a few months from release) they needed to close a few. Granted, they lost more people than expected, but what with the transfers, I think we will see many return in the months to come.

 

Granted if you think they have a million subs you are kidding yourself. The 1.3 reported was inflated as is with trials and those they granted free time to as it was stated that number was reported as of the time of the report for the quarterly reports and not the subs at the end of the quarter. Some folks are really reaching and need to be more objective. The facts are what they are.

I don't know how many subs they have. I do know that facts are subject to interpretation. YOU want to say how aweful they are doing, others look at the same data and suggest the game is doing well. Stop trying to tear things down, and be as objective as you think others should be.

[Hajizan]

Ok what "bugs" are you talking about that are still around since beta? Care to elaborate? also I never said roughly over a million what I meant was under . . . Also . . . how many subs did wow have 7 months after launch how many boxes did they sell? How many bugs did they fix since launch? Like I said before . . . things take time to perfect . . wow is over 10 years old and SWTOR is only 7 months . . what your arguing is (i might make some people mad) trying to explain evolution by looking at the human race . . . evolution takes billions of years to work (wow) SWTOR is only thousands of years (human race).

 

Then you are saying that this game should still be in beta? Because as a paying customer I will compare this game to products all ready out now, not products years ago.

[TUXs]

Got numbers to back that up or just rambling on?

 

I've got the same numbers you probably have, and I'm not foolish enough to believe they went from 124 servers to 20 and have even half the players they once did. I'm using common sense, you seem to be relying on wishful thinking.

[ripster]

I do agree with a lot of the OP but the other side of the coin is that if people are going to spend $15 a month they will sometimes want to know they are getting something for the money. In that regard I think people should keep pressing them for more. Just because WoW may have gotten away with a year or whatever of vanilla doesn't mean we should settle for that. If SWTOR cannot push out frequent content updates (and not just end game flashpoints) then that is something EA/BW needs to address, not something the paying customer needs to settle for.

[Styxx]

Ok what "bugs" are you talking about that are still around since beta? Care to elaborate? also I never said roughly over a million what I meant was under . . . Also . . . how many subs did wow have 7 months after launch how many boxes did they sell? How many bugs did they fix since launch? Like I said before . . . things take time to perfect . . wow is over 10 years old and SWTOR is only 7 months . . what your arguing is (i might make some people mad) trying to explain evolution by looking at the human race . . . evolution takes billions of years to work (wow) SWTOR is only thousands of years (human race).

 

I am sorry, but I will compare it against GW2, Tera, The Secret World, WOW and any PRESENT and FUTURE game. NOT past.

 

I am playing NOW.. and to be quite frank... the onus is on Bioware to present me a product that stands out from the other products I am looking to use, not on me to compare different timelines. TODAY, or tomorrow.. not yesterday.

[InnerPieces]

Got numbers to back that up or just rambling on?

 

Likewise back to you (well, not you but the OP. I just quoted you because your question made me think of the same thing, but in reverse).

Edited July 26, 2012 by InnerPieces

[GalaxyStrong]

I love this game and will be playing for a long while but, I think there could be a few changes for the better such as the following.

 

1. Reduce Sub-Fee to $12.00 - It's pretty hard to complain about that price considering a delivery pizza with tip cost more

 

2. Add Game-Guide to the web-site and create a 2nd edition Strategy-Guide - SWTOR can be confusing for beginning player when trying to understand and use CrewSkill, CraftingSkills, Groupfinder, Legacy, ect, ect, ect.

 

3. Add VOIP - I just feel that VOIP could really help with communication and would be very beneficial to new players and on a personal note I feel disconnected from my team and I feel like I'm not playing with actual people.

 

4. A NEW MARKETING AND ADVERTISING CAMPAIGN - They need to get back in the public eye. When ever someone thinks MMO they think of WOW and they need the public to think of WOW & SWTOR. I remember WOW did a advertising campaign with MOUNTAIN DEW once. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

 

GOOD LUCK BIOWARE:D:D:D

Edited July 26, 2012 by GalaxyStrong

[Jabadehutt]

I am sorry, but I will compare it against GW2, Tera, The Secret World, WOW and any PRESENT and FUTURE game. NOT past.

 

I am playing NOW.. and to be quite frank... the onus is on Bioware to present me a product that stands out from the other products I am looking to use, not on me to compare different timelines. TODAY, or tomorrow.. not yesterday.

 

I'm not asking you to live in the past. I'm simply saying to have some perspective. You cant give the consumer everything they want right off the start then the company wouldn't make money, and you cant comprehend everything that people want right away. Now before you get mad saying its selfish of them to hold stuff off so they can make money . . . you probably own an apple device (iPod or something) and odds are you have bought multiple versions of them . . . you are a prime example of playing the system. Apple is probably the most selfish company there is (or the smartest) creating new versions with only a couple upgrades every year. And you still buy them feeding the system.

 

Its what Capitalism is its what this world is now.

[Urael]

I'm tired of everybody complaining about this game.....

 

I am tired of people giving EA/BW a pass.

 

The MMORPG field has changed. A MMORPG needs to be able to compete with the top MMORPGs on the market TODAY.

 

I am tired of all the excuses and I am tired of all the Fanboiz.

 

This thread gets the Trade Mark Pending:

 

Quick Fanboiz Assemble!!! ™

 

[DarthCDiv]

Wow player since vanilla and it is not the greatest mmo. Would you rather no one complained and just left without telling bioware what they could do to keep them playing?

 

Also your understanding of business and capitalism is lacking to say the least.

Edited July 26, 2012 by DarthCDiv

[Jabadehutt]

Wow player since vanilla and it is not the greatest mmo. Would you rather no one complained and just left without telling bioware what they could do to keep them playing?

 

No its ok for people to give their opinions on the game what to add and what not, and the good thing about Bioware is they actually listen. All I am saying is people need to be understandable and realize things take time . . . thats all.

 

and how is my understanding of business and capitalism clouded exactly?

 

I am tired of people giving EA/BW a pass.

 

The MMORPG field has changed. A MMORPG needs to be able to compete with the top MMORPGs on the market TODAY.

 

I am tired of all the excuses and I am tired of all the Fanboiz.

 

This thread gets the Trade Mark Pending:

 

Quick Fanboiz Assemble!!! ™

 

 

and what exactly do you mean whats not competing and what is this fanboiz thing and trade mark pending?

Edited July 26, 2012 by Jabadehutt

[Celebrus]

I am tired of people complaining about the people complaining about the people complaining about the people complaining about this game.

[DarthCDiv]

As far as we know BW doesn't listen because they never respond and when they do it's to completely irrelevant questions. BW adding what should be a standard mmo feature, lfg, doesn't mean they are listening it just means they did something that obviously needed to be done.

[Urael]

I am tired of people complaining about the people complaining about the people complaining about the people complaining about this game.

 

So your in the middle. You had two successive transforms on each side coming back to the middle.

[Urael]

and what exactly do you mean whats not competing and what is this fanboiz thing and trade mark pending?

 

. . . get real this game is 7 months old, already with a million (roughly) subs. I know for a fact that World of Warcraft (the greatest mmo out there) did not start out completely polished and with 10 million subs. There were tons of bugs, issues, server down times, quests leading to nowhere. People need to realize games aren't perfect at launch . . . especially mmo's. Things take time to become what they are, then when they seem like they are on top, they fall (world of warcraft now). This game has so much room for improvement the devs are constantly fixing issues at a rapid pace, if your complaining about too much maintenance, ur stupid how else are they going to fix issues? This game has already broken all other mmo records at launch and sub holder for first 6th months (even beat wow). Games don't usually take off until their first expansion or sequel anyway (cod1? psh nobody played that it wasn't untill cod4 they became a real franchise). All I'm asking is for people to take this game into perspective before you bash on it. I think this game is headed in the right way and hopefully i wont be let down.....

 

SWTOR didn't launch at the same point in time as WoW. It should not be compared to WoW's launch technoligically to which you are trying to equivivate. SWTOR needs to be compared technologically ( hence FEATURES) with WoW today as the Top Dog in the hunt. SWTOR should have had all the convenience features that WoW had AT LAUNCH. You and SWTOR cheerleaders (aka Fanboiz) give EA/BW a pass. EA/BW hyped the game for years and they underwhelmed with what they delivered.

 

Is the game fun to play? Sure if all you want to do is play it as a SINGLE player RPG and level Alts. SWTOR delivers on that. But as far as being a full blown MMORPG, it undewhelms.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Urael

[Jabadehutt]

As far as we know BW doesn't listen because they never respond and when they do it's to completely irrelevant questions. BW adding what should be a standard mmo feature, lfg, doesn't mean they are listening it just means they did something that obviously needed to be done.

 

 

Yes I agree that the LFG feature should have been in in the beginning but to their defense, they needed to figure out their population their fan base (PVP or PVE) some games have endgame pve but mostly people want pvp stuff. But if you look at the dev tracker they are listening in on ideas (Guild Fleet Ship, boosted experience for alts, etc.) they are doing way better of a job than blizzards devs that's for sure.