What could/should be done for infiltration

[dronepilot]

An unmitigated/unblockable attack

Reduced CD on Force Cloak

Passive avoidance

Shadowstep

Chance to reset breach's cd

An actual fearful opener

Less ramp up

 

Agreed. The other stuff about CS I don't agree with, the Back stab, is best from stealth (actually makes sense) you would stab some thing in the back, its what rogues do, right ?! - CS wouldn't make sense for this kind of attack. I am having difficulty more lately, wondering why bother with CS at all at times. I mostly use DS and saber strike anyway.

 

Force cloak needs work, Cloak in PVP I swear the Mara's combat stealth works better at times. The main problem I find, is having to build up towards getting some kind of damage out put, it seems like its a matter of remembering step 1,2,3 its very predictable, and anyone who has studied the class, and Infiltrators and Assassins specced in Deception, know it is. Were easily shut down almost right away.

 

A predictable class, like we used to be known as "typical run of the mill burst Shadows" or what ever.. shows that to be true.

 

We don't have enough chance of escape either, for a class with light armour that's supposed to be melee, we certainly don't have enough defensive abilities.

 

Anyway what ever you agree with, or disagree with, its unlikely Infiltration will ever be fixed, because its 'us' who are not playing this spec correctly. You can take the Developers word on that, please don't point fingers at me !

[reinforever]

An unmitigated/unblockable attack

Reduced CD on Force Cloak

Passive avoidance

Shadowstep

Chance to reset breach's cd

An actual fearful opener

Less ramp up

 

I think a reduced cd on Cloak is what I would kill someone for irl.

But what's passive avoidance and shadowstep?

[Kitru]

But what's passive avoidance and shadowstep?

 

Passive avoidance probably refers to an increased defense/resistance chance. Shadowstep refers to an ability from WoW that rogues could get that teleported them immediately behind their target.

 

Without really heavily modifying any existing abilities or adding new skills, I think a good solution to the burst damage problem would be to add an addendum to Shadow Technique: while you are stealthed, you gain a stack of "insert-name-here" every second up to a maximum of 5 (or 10). Whenever you make an attack, you consume all stacks of "insert-name-here" and either (depending on implementation) deal 5-10% more damage with the attack or deal an additional amount of flat damage (probably something similar to Shadow Technique's proc damage).

 

Conversely, an option that achieves a similar end reward would be a tweak to Exit Strategy such that you gain Exit Strategy stacks every second while you are stealthed.

[reinforever]

So far I've liked either the shorter CD on cloak or a move that finishes all battle-move CD's,

The Idea of a move that is stronger when coming out of stealth,

And the ability to heal yourself in stealth.

[Eggsalicious]

1. Reduced Force cloak CD

2. Greatly increased dmg and armor pen for flanking/being behind

3. Slightly reduced time to get out of combat (after fixing the existing bugginess)

4. Replace animation for CStrike with Double strike animation

5. passive chance to proc .5 sec stealth; proc chance but not duration can be improved through talents.

 

~Sig

Edited July 31, 2012 by Eggsalicious

[ProKsnNwk]

BEFORE NERFING SHADOW KC!!!

NERF THE Sentinels, Vangurds, and Scounrel healers!!!

 

Then you can nerf the Shadow KC and power up Shadow Inf.

[Xinika]

BEFORE NERFING SHADOW KC!!!

NERF THE Sentinels, Vangurds, and Scounrel healers!!!

 

Then you can nerf the Shadow KC and power up Shadow Inf.

 

That whole idea is nonsense. Nerfing other classes and ACs won't make infiltration or any other gimp spec better... where on earth is this conclusion coming from?!?!

[Dissentus]

I'm not sure I agree with the whole strong out of stealth move, as that's scoundrel/operatives forte. They front load, shadows/assassins back load, though both classes need tweaks so who's to say. Although, if I were to do this, I would just make one of the high level talents grant Find Weakness, same as tier one talent, but usable on shadow strike/maul coming out of stealth. Shadow strike/maul hits plenty hard enough with the proc up.

[Boarg]

I'm not sure I agree with the whole strong out of stealth move, as that's scoundrel/operatives forte. They front load, shadows/assassins back load, though both classes need tweaks so who's to say. Although, if I were to do this, I would just make one of the high level talents grant Find Weakness, same as tier one talent, but usable on shadow strike/maul coming out of stealth. Shadow strike/maul hits plenty hard enough with the proc up.

 

Well, giving Infiltration some front loading doesn't make them as good at front loading as Scrappers. It's just a problem to pretty much literally have zero front loading as a stealth class with paper thin defense.

 

Their opener is huge... It does:

 

Big damage

Stun

Generate Upper Hand

Grant armor pen

 

We get the Stun, and that's it. We could get half of what they do and still be miles better off than we are now, and they would still be the clear front load specialists.

[reinforever]

I agree, at least one out of stealth strong move that isn't NEEDED for the entire rotation would be nice.

[parbs]

I still think a 1min cooldown on force cloak and perhaps allowing inf the ability to wipe dots before cloaking would really provide a more 'infiltration' feel to this class. Even making clairvoyant strike slightly more powerful would go a long way to giving incentive to roll one vs the power of double strike hybrid tanks. The burst is also too dependant on force potency, to mitigate these gaps some sort of debuff to negate healers or provide an armor debuff might be an option. As it stands though, infil is really quite underpowered compared to our other options! Edited August 2, 2012 by parbs

[parbs]

And like mentioned earlier, infil is just so damned predictable. As balance or kinetic i can simply wait for those two clairvoyants and resilience = gg. I dont know what bioware was thinking with this class honestly it just reeks of something that was given up on a while ago and thrown on the backburner, yet they justify it in some recent Q&A as being not a team class? give me a break.. Edited August 2, 2012 by parbs

[Typeslice]

Sorry, I skipped straight to the end, but is this strictly about PvP?

[reinforever]

Sorry, I skipped straight to the end, but is this strictly about PvP?

 

Yeah I'm making the post primarily on pvp, I seem to do just fine in PVE so I'm not too sure it's broken in that aspect, correct me if I'm wrong though.

[reinforever]

And like mentioned earlier, infil is just so damned predictable. As balance or kinetic i can simply wait for those two clairvoyants and resilience = gg. I dont know what bioware was thinking with this class honestly it just reeks of something that was given up on a while ago and thrown on the backburner, yet they justify it in some recent Q&A as being not a team class? give me a break..

 

To be honest the way I do the rotation makes it a lot less predictable. Sometimes i'll only do 2 of the clarivoyant strikes, but other times I try to stack exit strategy up before dumping project and breach. I've found that a lot of people naturally do their defensive buffs after my second CS then I just keep using saber strikes or CS's to stack exit strategy and wait for their buff to wear off then proceed to dump the even more powerful move. It's only predictable if you have a set rotation and don't ever switch it up.

[DragooGC]

http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes/jedi-consular/shadow

 

Mouse over Shadow Respite for description.

[parbs]

Interesting.. also sadly out of date as a bunch of the skills have been changed since this was created.. the particle acceleration is from pre 1.2 days and it was a bit more powerful then too you could proc it regardless of if the opponent had melee / ranged defense cooldowns active. I wish they'd do something about the spec already

[DragooGC]

Harnessed Shadows enables Telekinetic Throw to be uninterruptable and immune to knock back?

I seem to get interrupted and knocked back every time

[Ritsugamesh]

Harnessed Shadows enables Telekinetic Throw to be uninterruptable and immune to knock back?

I seem to get interrupted and knocked back every time

 

Uninterrupted and immune to PUSHBACK - means you can't use an interrupt to cancel the move, nor can you slow the channel time by attacking them. You can, however, use knockbacks like force wave to cancel the move.

[Kitru]

the particle acceleration is from pre 1.2 days and it was a bit more powerful then too

 

Not to go too far off topic, but, are you serious? The 1.2 change to PA was a buff. Sure, you couldn't just spam whirling blow before combat and generate your PA procs, but the change increased the proc rate with double strike by a slim margin (from .5 with each DS use to .3 with each DS hit, which equates to a .51 chance per use) and allowed PA to proc off of Spinning Strike. The loss of "empty" attacks giving you PA was a *minor* nerf to PA, but the overall change made it way better.

[parbs]

For full KC yeah, but it just served as another way to nerf hybrids. You could proc it with each USE, much like how circling shadows still works - even if someone used a cooldown such as deflection or an accuracy debuff you could still get the proc off. Not a huge deal but still..

[Kitru]

For full KC yeah, but it just served as another way to nerf hybrids.

 

The hybrid nerf was to require the relevant skill tree's Technique for the 3 passive DS proc talents (PA, Circling Shadows, and Force Strike), and it wasn't just PA that was hit with that but all 3 simultaneously. The overall effect to PA itself was a rather substantial buff. Whether it was a nerf to specific hybrid specs is a completely different issue.

[parbs]

Yes i know, it was part of their forcing us up the one tree as much as possible nerf - and it came before 1.2 - my point was it was an update for the people invested entirely in one tree but not as much for a hybrid shadow who plays a role requiring alot of solo play in ranked wzs. Anyway it's not really a big deal

[Kitru]

Anyway it's not really a big deal

 

Well, it does segue well into the discussion concerning Infiltration Shadows and their relatively poor performance compared to the more popular hybrid specs in PvP. If the developers want players to use pure specs over hybrids, you have to wonder what they think about the general agreement that hybrid specs are preferable to pure specs for Shadow PvP. The "you're not playing Inf right" statement only goes so far when the general case is that even an optimally played Inf Shadow is less useful/functional/powerful than a hybrid.

[parbs]

Yeah, really it's the sad fact of the matter - i wish infil could do the job it was designed for. They also should encourage hybrids as it adds a lot to the longevity of the game, being able to play a bunch of different (and viable) builds. Rift has been able to do this quite well for instance Edited August 4, 2012 by parbs