Marauders.. Cmon now (tryin 2b constructive)

[MrNoRubber]

Alright i dont want this post to be your standard QQ I'm sure some trolls will say I am but i am actually trying to be alittle constructive, this is a topic about 90% of players agree with... Marauders are alittle unfair, heres why.

 

First off I want to say I play this game almost religiously, so this is coming from someone with experience in many different classes I have 3 fully geared (WH/Campaign - Blackhole) lvl 50's, a Merc, a Sniper, and a Juggernaut.

 

Marauders are a little unfair in this game, some people will say HEY NO WAY I BEAT MARAUDERS! yeah uve beat marauders, because they scale with gear insanely. Low gear/level marauders are no problem, like some people say sure they r squishy, but have u ever been against a highly geared marauder? Not so squishy anymore, actually they are pretty tanky. Let me explain a few reasons why I feel marauders need slight adjustment.

 

marauders have the top dps out of any class and this is a fact from research. this is okay! they are melee and medium armor! BUT when you factor in these facts

 

Marauders can go stealth

Marauders have 99% dmg reduction shield

Marauders give entire team a big damage increase with bloodthirst

Marauders give huge speed increase to team with predation

Marauders can heal themselves, thier DoT's heal them... wow...

Marauder can leap, huge dmg aoe smash

All this included with biggest burst OR sustained Dmg in game and no energy problems because of rage system

they become just too much. What are they thinking giving this much power to one class?

 

I myself think no other class is over powered everythings pretty even (mercs do need some love) but other than this everythings fine. Marauders need tweeking.

 

Id say if anyone disagrees with this... 95% chance your a marauder.. so please dont post on this if ur marauder cuz ofcourse ur gonna disagree cuz u want to keep the most overpowered character in game.

 

so i guess everyone go roll a marauder till they fix this. its ungodly powerful even when a noobs playing it.

 

p.s. the 99% shield lasts for how long? like 6 seconds? thats about 50% of the time a 1v1 takes... cmon now u cant damage them for half ur fight... sure they say cc them during this time! ya sure CC them if thier resolve bar isnt full... 90% chance if u havent used a stun on a good marauder by this time your dead anyway.

Edited July 23, 2012 by MrNoRubber

[NoTomorrow]

If you want to be constructive stop just listing the class abilities. 99% of nerf class X threads start with an introduction to the class abilities trying to emphasize how powerful they are. As is other classes dont have enough goodies themselves.

 

Fist of all, tell us what class do you yourself play, describe the situations in warznes from your own personal experience that made you feel like marauder wom because he had an unfair advantage.

 

And please post the combat logs too. If anything this forum is full of, than it is anecdotal evodence and personal biased opinions.

 

Are you still ready to prove your point?

[Siorac]

p.s. the 99% shield lasts for how long? like 6 seconds? thats about 50% of the time a 1v1 takes... cmon now u cant damage them for half ur fight... sure they say cc them during this time! ya sure CC them if thier resolve bar isnt full... 90% chance if u havent used a stun on a good marauder by this time your dead anyway.

 

Well I was going to say it's pointless to open another Marauder/Sentinel thread but your p.s. caught my attention. Yes, finally, someone gets it: people keep saying "just stun them through it" well that is all good but for most classes if they wait for Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage to use their stun they're just going to die. If you can get a Marauder down to about 30% without using a stun then cool. Unlikely but cool. They also happen to have resolve bar and CC breaker.

[MrNoRubber]

Fist of all, tell us what class do you yourself play, describe the situations in warznes from your own personal experience that made you feel like marauder wom because he had an unfair advantage.

 

Its the entire class and abilities. I've played against them at the highest gear level in all 3 of my characters. But to be honest they say sniper is supposed to be a hard counter, most of the time I will beat them but in a 1v1 against a Warhero marauder, I mostly never win. and this is only because of one thing. (btw im Mr'rakata on fatman server if anyone knows) I am a very good sniper, and ive used all 3 specs, but back to point, in a 1v1 vs a WH marauder with all of our cooldowns up. I lose when both of us are very low hp and the only reason is because right before he dies, he puts on a 99% shield for how long? 6 seconds? Wow... no getting around that. I think many people can agree with that situation.

[AngusFTW]

They can heal themselves with dots AND do big aoe smash dmg..

Where is this mythical 31/31/31 mara you speak of?

[Slamuel]

They can heal themselves with dots AND do big aoe smash dmg..

Where is this mythical 31/31/31 mara you speak of?[/quote

 

Yes, to have a huge aoe smash, they would have to be focus/rage spec, for the dots, watchman/annhiliation, and for burst, combat/carnage. However, to the original poster, I agree that guarded by the force does not really belong. However, just cc them when they have a big CD like that.

[MrNoRubber]

i thot i told u two marauders not to post, ofcourse its just been u marauders complaining about post so far... alright so they cant do both the splash and heal at same time? how does that negate the OP at all?

[MrNoRubber]

They can heal themselves with dots AND do big aoe smash dmg..

Where is this mythical 31/31/31 mara you speak of?[/quote

 

Yes, to have a huge aoe smash, they would have to be focus/rage spec, for the dots, watchman/annhiliation, and for burst, combat/carnage. However, to the original poster, I agree that guarded by the force does not really belong. However, just cc them when they have a big CD like that.

 

thank you, atleast a sentinel that actually understands.

[MrNoRubber]

i wish bioware would actually do soemthing about this horrible balance issue. otherwise the game is great and pvp is lovely.

[lexiekaboom]

They can heal themselves with dots AND do big aoe smash dmg..

Where is this mythical 31/31/31 mara you speak of?[/quote

 

Yes, to have a huge aoe smash, they would have to be focus/rage spec, for the dots, watchman/annhiliation, and for burst, combat/carnage. However, to the original poster, I agree that guarded by the force does not really belong. However, just cc them when they have a big CD like that.

 

Just wrong. You have to spec to have your AOE smash hit for 5k 100% of the time. It still hits for 5k 40% (base crit off WH gear and buffs) of the time in annihilation. Not having it auto cirt doesn't mean you don't have it. You can also heal out of annihilation spec by changing stances before using your 30 stack cooldown; annihilation makes your dots better and makes them heal you all the time, it is not required to have dots or have dots heal you.

 

Burst damage is well beyond any other class but sniper in any spec. Carnage might be the BEST burst damage, but saying Mardauders have no burst damage unless they go carnage is just ... well, any word I use to do it justice will just get the post removed, so use your imagination

 

Very few posts come from people who play Marauders or Sentinels who are not trying to nerf dodge. Me, I have a both and I HATE how powerful we are in PVP right now, so don't mind being honest.

Edited July 23, 2012 by lexiekaboom

[Slamuel]

also, It seems that the stealth may be OP, because we are not a stealthing class. to replace it, an aggro dump in pve without stealth would work.

[MrNoRubber]

i alrdy said that you cant do the aoe and dots at the same time... is this ur way of trying to go around the entire issue of this post? this is horible off topic.

[PowerReaper]

Sigh, all that stuff can be countered. More qqing threads . . . i remember the days when people would make fun of Marauders for being the broken class. Now look, Karma is awesome Edited July 23, 2012 by PowerReaper

[MrNoRubber]

i am glad that a few marauders/sentinels actually agree, i wish there was a way to bump this to show even the people that actually play the class agree its overpowered. hopefully bioware will fix this soon. this is my first post on the forum ever... i feel like something needs to be done and i hope my voice is heard, as im not only speaking for myself.

[Slamuel]

 

Just wrong. You have to spec to have your AOE smash hit for 5k 100% of the time. It still hits for 5k 40% (base crit off WH gear and buffs) of the time in annihilation. Not having it auto cirt doesn't mean you don't have it. You can also heal out of annihilation spec by changing stances before using your 30 stack cooldown; annihilation makes your dots better and makes them heal you all the time, it is not required to have dots or have dots heal you.

 

Burst damage is well beyond any other class but sniper in any spec. Carnage might be the BEST burst damage, but saying Mardauders have no burst damage unless they go carnage is just ... well, any word I use to do it justice will just get the post removed, so use your imagination

 

Very few posts come from people who play Marauders or Sentinels who are not trying to nerf dodge. Me, I have a both and I HATE how powerful we are in PVP right now, so don't mind being honest.

 

who actually uses the sweep much in anni or watch anyway? also, yes, you could call the other specs burst, but combat is definitely the best, and is known for being the burst spec.

[Siorac]

Just wrong. You have to spec to have your AOE smash hit for 5k 100% of the time. It still hits for 5k 40% (base crit off WH gear and buffs) of the time in annihilation. Not having it auto cirt doesn't mean you don't have it.

 

No, Smash in Annihilation will never hit for 5k. For that simply high power + surge is not enough, you need the four stacks of Singularity (what's the Marauder version? Shockwaves?) and the talent that increases the crit damage of Force attacks by 30%. These are high in the Focus/Rage tree.

 

I play a Vigilance Guardian as my main, my Force Sweep can crit for 2-2.5k at best.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Siorac

[PowerReaper]

You know how long it takes to set up a 5k Sweep/Smash, if you just sit there and don't move or anything your bad... also that 99% shield lasts 5 seconds. If you can't stun a Marauder and then kite them after they just wasted 50% of they're current Hp and you STILL can't kill them something is wrong honestly... Edited July 23, 2012 by PowerReaper

[AKfourtyseven]

... also that 99% shield lasts 5 seconds. If you can't stun a Marauder and then kite them after they just wasted 50% of they're current Hp and you STILL can't kill them something is wrong honestly...

 

In an isolated 1v1 i agree entirely. In a team situation GBTF/UDG is a huge issue because once its popped, you can be certain a heal is coming the way of the marauder/sent.

 

That cooldown needs to prevent or drastically reduce incoming healing. Its silly you can have 99% damage reduction, deal 100% damage and then get healed back to full HP. Its that small detail that pushes the class over the edge and makes it not a "oh sh*t/last stand" move but more of a 'Kill me all over again if you can [before i cammo]' move.

Edited July 23, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[PowerReaper]

In an isolated 1v1 i agree entirely. In a team situation, especially rwz GBTF/UDG is a huge issue because once its popped, you can be certain a heal is coming the way of the marauder/sent.

 

That cooldown needs to prevent or drastically reduce incoming healing. Its silly you can have 995 damage reduction, deal 1005 damage and then get healed back to full HP. Its that small detail that pushes the class over the edge and makes it not a "oh sh*t/last stand" move but more of a 'Kill me all over again if you can [before i cammo]' move.

 

True, but common sense tells your if you see a Healer and a Marauder you should be ccing, slowing, etc the Marauder and focusing the healer down. Healers are just doing they're job you can't really blame the Marauder...

[Siorac]

You know how long it takes to set up a 5k Sweep/Smash, if you just sit there and don't move or anything your bad... also that 99% shield lasts 5 seconds. If you can't stun a Marauder and then kite them after they just wasted 50% of they're current Hp and you STILL can't kill them something is wrong honestly...

 

You have a CC breaker.

You have a resolve bar which might be full.

The stun might be on cooldown.

 

Most importantly: you might have been forced to use the stun to have any chance to survive the crazy damage BEFORE Guarded by the Force. Which pretty much makes it an "I win" button.

[PowerReaper]

You have a CC breaker.

You have a resolve bar which might be full.

The stun might be on cooldown.

 

Most importantly: you might have been forced to use the stun to have any chance to survive the crazy damage we're a dps class sigh . . . and our damage is fine that's not a valid excuse BEFORE Guarded by the Force. Which pretty much makes it an "I win" button.

 

That's really not my fault, you can't blame the Marauder. You should not be using stuns on them unless GBTF is up. If its not you should be slowing and kiting them . . . and even if the stun is not up what else is there

Slows

LOS

Immobilize

Kites

Knockbacks

Take your pick, all these work perfectly.

Edited July 23, 2012 by PowerReaper

[AKfourtyseven]

True, but common sense tells your if you see a Healer and a Marauder you should be ccing, slowing, etc the Marauder and focusing the healer down. Healers are just doing they're job you can't really blame the Marauder...

 

I dont blame the marauder or the healer, they are playing the class the best way possible. I just dont think for balance purposes it should allow full incoming healing. Its the only thing i honestly think is off the with class.

[JackNader]

These kinds of posts make me sad. Have you ever thought that the issue is not with Marauders themselves but with either the class your playing or with game mechanics?

 

For a game to be balanced, be enjoyable and to express variety, it must use the "rock paper scissors" philosophy.

 

Every class is given a version of Rock, Paper and scissors.

 

What that means is if a class is given range, all melee classes must be given a gap closer. The gap closer can be slightly increased passive speed, temporary speed boost., leap, pull, temporary stealth, doesn't matter.. Just as long as the gap closer exists. If there is NO gap closer then the ranged class will always beat the melee class. In essence the ranged class is bringing a Nuke instead of a rock and the fight is not balanced. To balance a game correctly you look at every single class ability and you compare that to any opposing class and you ensure that the respective class has the means to counter.

 

Look at the Marauder

 

Camo

 

Have you ever tried playing lowbie PVP without camo? It's a freaking joke. All a sniper, Sorc has to do is knock you back and root you and your screwed. You can't leap, you can't move. Without Camo you are screwed. This is why Marauders have Camo and why it has such a short cooldown.

 

Cloak of Pain

Refreshes when attacked but drops off if not attacked after 6 seconds. Most classes can counter this so easily 1v1 it's not funny. Jug can force push and then wait 6 seconds to attack. Sniper can knockback, root or flashbang. Sorcs can knockback, root or speed run away. Assassins can stealth, Operatives flashbang or stealth. Ever tried killing a marauder without their cloak of pain? They drop like a sack of ****. The only spec worth a damn without it's cloak of pain is annihilation because its bleed heals slightly offset the damage.

 

Obfuscation

This talent exists for 2 reasons. RAVAGE and Ambush! It's countered by snipers/other melee classes with the billion knockbacks and stuns or by using any force or tech attack instead of a ranged or melee attack.

 

Undying Rage

This is the only talent I'll agree on that is not necessary. It has no purpose but to extend a fight that you're about to lose. Saying that, it is no less unfair than Snipers hunker down ability or Vengeance Jugs 10K heal or Vengeance Jugs 85% DR in Soresu on Leap and immunity to stun.

 

That's basically it... That's all the Marauder has. Annihilation is the best tree for damage and survivability. The damage is because the spec is internal. Doing ridiculous amounts of damage is not the fault of the spec but a failure on Biowares part to "scale internal / elemental damage resistance with gear. I've explain that last statement in a heap of posts already so I won't be doing it again. Needless to say all Bioware has to do is add internal / elemental DR to armoring and you'll see the damage output of Annihilation marauders, Pyro Powertechs and Dot sorcs fall back into line with Kinetic based classes.

 

I've said it 1000 times already. Marauder is the ONLY class that Bioware got right. It has been given the tools to deal with every situation. Bioware needs to take a leaf out of their Marauder book and elevate the other classes so that they match the same philosophy.

[Kontraz]

That's really not my fault, you can't blame the Marauder. You should not be using stuns on them unless GBTF is up. If its not you should be slowing and kiting them . . . and even if the stun is not up what else is there

Slows

LOS

Immobilize

Kites

Knockbacks

Take your pick, all these work perfectly.

 

knockback? are you serious? yes, hey marauder, I want to knock you back, so you can force leap and gain more ammo against me.

 

and this game isn't designed for kiting at all, not so long as snares and roots don't effect resolve. Every time I've tried to kite as a commando, I'm just slowed to the point that it does no good. And yes, I also play a vanguard (who has an auto-snare) and still think that snares should effect resolve to SOME extent, even if it is only slightly.

[PowerReaper]

knockback? are you serious? yes, hey marauder, I want to knock you back, so you can force leap and gain more ammo against me.

 

and this game isn't designed for kiting at all, not so long as snares and roots don't effect resolve. Every time I've tried to kite as a commando, I'm just slowed to the point that it does no good. And yes, I also play a vanguard (who has an auto-snare) and still think that snares should effect resolve to SOME extent, even if it is only slightly.

 

That's not the only thing you can do you know . . .