Resolve

[Siorac]

Why isn't your healer healing you? Why aren't your teammates peeling for you?

You can't expect to survive sustained damage from two opponents while you are completely incapacitated. That isn't realistic at all. It sucks, to be sure, but PvP is a team sport. You are not Master Chief.

 

The normal amount of Resolve Immunity is 20+ seconds. It is not possible to have less than 12 seconds of immunity (this worst case scenario of 12 seconds is achieved by using an 800 Resolve Effect and then allowing your target's resolve to decay to no less than 600, then using another 400 Resolve Effect (600 + 400 + 200 = 1200 / 100 = 12)

 

"For players with 1000 or higher resolve, resolve will drain as soon the 1000 mark is reached at a rate of 100 resolve per second"

 

So if you reach 1200 Resolve, it will drain in 12 seconds after the last CC effect is over, that is correct. If you get hit by two four second stuns in succession, you get 16 seconds of immunity - which in 80% of the time is worthless because you're dead. In the other 20% your CC breaker will be available. 16 seconds is not a lot, really. You get longer immunity after 8 second mezzes but during those you can't be damaged so they're not part of my gripe here.

 

Either make Resolve drain a LOT slower or just make all CC break on damage. I'd be in favour of the latter but the former is fine as well; anything to reduce the stunfest that level 50 PvP is at the moment. Zoeller was essentially correct in saying, back in the days of those teams of stunlocking operatives, that being stunlocked to death isn't fun. At all. So the aim should be to reduce this happening.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Siorac

[Daiyukie]

My problem is that they can take my full health down while I'm entirely incapacitated. CC breaker is on a 2-min cooldown, most stuns are on 1 min or less.

 

Resolve drains way too fast, and way too many people open up with a stun, followed by insane burst.

 

So stun them back. You act like your opponents are the only ones with this ability; stuns are the most balanced aspect of PvP in that they are universal, so use yours tactically as well. It's called having a proper reaction to your opponent's action.

[ElanSolUgad]

For all intents and purposes roots&snares are not part of the resolve system (they do not give resolve and are not mitigated by resolve) since they are considered tools in the kite/anti-kite game-play between ranged and melee.

 

All becomes clear, thank you. It is indeed the roots and snares that I am complaining about. It seems to me that it is ridiculous that as a full WH Commando, but easily killed, that I can be planted on the ground and not escape, believe me when I say a tough Imp can take me out in 3 hits. The answer is to make roots and snares part of the resolve system. I would not mind roots and snares if I could survive more than 3 seconds with a tough player on me. But I can not.

If you are wondering why the majority of complainers are commandos, it is because we have no CC that works on someone with full resolve like the roots and snares do, so it is one rule for one, and one rule for the other. Also, if a Sorc has so many CCs on quick cool down, but is also tough to kill as I have alluded to before, how can a command compete?

I will be raising a ticket on this, if you are a commando and feel as I do please also raise a ticket about roots and snares being part of Resolve.

To those muppets out there with your QQ and your L2P, I work, hard. I do not have time to run multiple characters and pick the best one. If I get upset about this CC issue, I will leave the game. If enough of us do this, the game shuts down. So engage your brain, if you have one, before you engage your keyboard.

Finally, I will start videoing my PVP, it is numerous times that I am CC'd and never get a chance to fight back, dead before I can get out of the CC. Even when I break the CC I get snared and finished off. Perhaps if I post a video, I can be told what I am doing wrong.

The more I read this post, the more I learn. I will now save my CC break for roots and snares, I will suffer the others which invariably means I die. But thanks to the serious contributors for the info, invaluable.

[Daiyukie]

Why you care about roots as a Merc is beyond me. You have a cleanse and have to sit still to do your better damage, so using your CC break on roots and snares would be idiotic.

[Darth_Philar]

"For players with 1000 or higher resolve, resolve will drain as soon the 1000 mark is reached at a rate of 100 resolve per second"

 

So if you reach 1200 Resolve, it will drain in 12 seconds after the last CC effect is over, that is correct. If you get hit by two four second stuns in succession, you get 16 seconds of immunity - which in 80% of the time is worthless because you're dead. In the other 20% your CC breaker will be available. 16 seconds is not a lot, really. You get longer immunity after 8 second mezzes but during those you can't be damaged so they're not part of my gripe here.

 

Either make Resolve drain a LOT slower or just make all CC break on damage. I'd be in favour of the latter but the former is fine as well; anything to reduce the stunfest that level 50 PvP is at the moment. Zoeller was essentially correct in saying, back in the days of those teams of stunlocking operatives, that being stunlocked to death isn't fun. At all. So the aim should be to reduce this happening.

 

Keep in mind that two consecutive 800 Resolve Effects will add up to 2000 Resolve (or 20 seconds), not 1600 as the effect that causes you to reach or exceed 1000 gets a 50% bonus. (Existing Resolve + New Resolve Amount + Bonus Resolve). Also, on use stuns (4 sec) and mezzes (8 sec) are both 800 Resolve Effects and therefore are treated exactly the same, you do not get longer immunity from one over the other.

[Siorac]

So stun them back. You act like your opponents are the only ones with this ability; stuns are the most balanced aspect of PvP in that they are universal, so use yours tactically as well. It's called having a proper reaction to your opponent's action.

 

We're speaking a different language here. You speak about winning which is certainly possible in the way Resolve and CC currently works; I speak about actually enjoying PvP which is very hard to do at the 50 bracket because of the stunfest. I can't "stun them back" when I'm incapacitated and hammered - which can be repeated all too often in the way Resolve currently works.

 

And no, they are not universal. I only have an AoE mez - useful, no doubt - and a "self-root" stun which prevents me from doing anything else during the duration of the stun. I can't just stun and unload on people. I actually have to deal with enemies who hit back.

[Daiyukie]

We're speaking a different language here. You speak about winning which is certainly possible in the way Resolve and CC currently works; I speak about actually enjoying PvP which is very hard to do at the 50 bracket because of the stunfest. I can't "stun them back" when I'm incapacitated and hammered - which can be repeated all too often in the way Resolve currently works.

 

And no, they are not universal. I only have an AoE mez - useful, no doubt - and a "self-root" stun which prevents me from doing anything else during the duration of the stun. I can't just stun and unload on people. I actually have to deal with enemies who hit back.

 

Meaning you're a Marauder, which gives you no grounds to complain about dying to two guys with a stun with the amount of defensive cooldowns you have.

[Siorac]

Elan, if you make snares and roots part of Resolve, you make Sentinels the absolute undisputed unkillable death machines. And Guardians would probably shoot up to second place. Distant second but still ahead of others.

[ElanSolUgad]

Why you care about roots as a Merc is beyond me. You have a cleanse and have to sit still to do your better damage, so using your CC break on roots and snares would be idiotic.

 

You stand still as a command and see how long you last against a well geared (not necessarily full WH) Sorc or Merc.

[Siorac]

Meaning you're a Marauder, which gives you no grounds to complain about dying to two guys with a stun with the amount of defensive cooldowns you have.

 

AAAAAAARGH THERE ARE TWO JEDI KNIGHT ADVANCED CLASSES!!!

 

Jeez, this is the most annoying thing ever. Every Sentinel is a Jedi Knight but not every Jedi Knight is a Sentinel. Every Marauder is a Sith Warrior but not every Sith Warrior is a Marauder.

[ElanSolUgad]

Elan, if you make snares and roots part of Resolve, you make Sentinels the absolute undisputed unkillable death machines. And Guardians would probably shoot up to second place. Distant second but still ahead of others.

 

Ah, I am a noob.

Only play commando (unless I decide to wear my wife's knickers instead of nothing).

[LarryRow]

We're speaking a different language here. You speak about winning which is certainly possible in the way Resolve and CC currently works; I speak about actually enjoying PvP which is very hard to do at the 50 bracket because of the stunfest. I can't "stun them back" when I'm incapacitated and hammered - which can be repeated all too often in the way Resolve currently works.

 

And no, they are not universal. I only have an AoE mez - useful, no doubt - and a "self-root" stun which prevents me from doing anything else during the duration of the stun. I can't just stun and unload on people. I actually have to deal with enemies who hit back.

 

I hate to be that guy, but this sounds like a L2P issue and a Get-a-Better-Team issue. Even in rated matches where people are doing everything they can to win, my up-time (time not being stunned) is pretty darn high. Even in games where we are significantly outmatched, teamwork keeps me alive and not stunned.

 

Between healers, tanks taunting and guarding, defensive cooldowns, and using your own utility wisely, there are many ways to survive a couple of stuns. Trust me, it is very balanced at the top levels of play (and even the levels I play at!).

 

Here is some specific advice for you. It's true that you lack crowd control, especially if you're not combat/carnage. You have a soft stun, aoe mez, and your leap roots (this is useful!). But you have the best defensive cooldowns in the game - use them! Also, roll an alt and take cybertech on him. Send him some cash and materials and have him make V-1 Seismic grenades to send to your main. Now you have two AoE mezzes.

 

EDIT: Okay, I assumed you were a Sentinel/Marauder because your list of cc was incomplete. You also have an insane knockback called force push, and a spammable AoE snare. You can spec to make your soft stun a hard stun and you can spec for another hard stun called hilt strike (uncommon). You also have access to Unremitting/imp-equivalent, which is an extremely powerful anti-cc ability. If you are focus/rage spec, you will have to deal with and expect a lot of cc because everyone knows you will be doing 4.5k AoE damage every 9 seconds. That's called balance.

Edited July 26, 2012 by LarryRow

[Siorac]

I hate to be that guy, but this sounds like a L2P issue and a Get-a-Better-Team issue. Even in rated matches where people are doing everything they can to win, my up-time (time not being stunned) is pretty darn high. Even in games where we are significantly outmatches, teamwork keeps me alive and not stunned.

 

Between healers, tanks taunting and guarding, defensive cooldowns, and using your own utility wisely, there are many ways to survive a couple of stuns. Trust me, it is very balanced at the top levels of play (and even the levels I play at!).

 

Here is some specific advice for you. It's true that you lack crowd control, especially if you're not combat/carnage. You have a soft stun, aoe mez, and your leap roots (this is useful!). But you have the best defensive cooldowns in the game - use them! Also, roll an alt and take cybertech on him. Send him some cash and materials and have him make V-1 Seismic grenades to send to your main. Now you have two AoE mezzes.

 

*cries big salty tears* I'm not a Sentinel! Please understand that I am not a bloody dual wielder. Pleaheaheahease. I have no god mode and stealth and damage reduction lasting 30 seconds and do not have access to a talent that reduces AoE damage by 30% and...

 

"Get a better team" is not a valid response; majority of the players solo queue or at best goes with a 4-man premade, having no influence on at least 4 of the other players in their team. Nullifying the effectiveness of CC takes a lot more work than using it effectively which is why in PuG warzones CC reigns. So does in rateds of course but there you can at least say that I should form a better team with more CC.

 

And I even have Unremitting. When I tried to play Focus spec it was even more ridiculous.

 

EDIT: I just saw your edit. Freezing Force isn't CC, it has nothing to do with Resolve, it doesn't incapacitate anyone, it's not what I'm talking about. Force Push is a single-target knockback (and anti-kiting tool) but again, not CC - Sorcerer's Overload isn't CC either.

 

I can't spec into Hilt Strike and Force Grip if I want to play DPS Guardian. And the issue, again, isn't about whether I have CC or not: the issue is that people can be stunned and incapacitated way too often in this game. I think that Resolve is working as intended but the intention is a bit misguided. It's not even about winning, that's not the most important thing to me. Being focused down and destroyed by three DPS is normal. Being stunned while they destroy me so that I can't even throw out a taunt or interrupt a capper is horrible.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Siorac

[Daiyukie]

AAAAAAARGH THERE ARE TWO JEDI KNIGHT ADVANCED CLASSES!!!

 

Jeez, this is the most annoying thing ever. Every Sentinel is a Jedi Knight but not every Jedi Knight is a Sentinel. Every Marauder is a Sith Warrior but not every Sith Warrior is a Marauder.

 

If you're not a Sentinel, you have access to a stun. Therefore, stop QQing.

[Siorac]

If you're not a Sentinel, you have access to a stun. Therefore, stop QQing.

 

I don't want to play a tank just to have a stun.

 

And it's still not about whether I have access to a stun or not. You're still missing the point I'm making. I can still be effective but the gameplay is rather frustrating this way. A change to at least increase the duration of immunity would make it less frustrating. What's so hard to grasp about this?

[Daiyukie]

I don't want to play a tank just to have a stun.

 

And it's still not about whether I have access to a stun or not. You're still missing the point I'm making. I can still be effective but the gameplay is rather frustrating this way. A change to at least increase the duration of immunity would make it less frustrating. What's so hard to grasp about this?

 

Does less frustrating = balanced? I don't give a damn about your frustration, the system in place is balanced and intelligent and whether you like it or not is a non-issue. There's nothing WRONG or BUGGY about it as some people claim, that's all my point is. If you're crying about stuns themselves, use your own or, I dunno, leap to them and become immune to stuns? You have the most anti-CC options as a Guardian ffs.

[LarryRow]

"Get a better team" is not a valid response; majority of the players solo queue or at best goes with a 4-man premade, having no influence on at least 4 of the other players in their team. Nullifying the effectiveness of CC takes a lot more work than using it effectively which is why in PuG warzones CC reigns. So does in rateds of course but there you can at least say that I should form a better team with more CC. You seem to have more of a deathmatch or 1v1 mentality

 

And I even have Unremitting. When I tried to play Focus spec it was even more ridiculous.

 

EDIT: I just saw your edit. Freezing Force isn't CC, it has nothing to do with Resolve, it doesn't incapacitate anyone, it's not what I'm talking about. Force Push is a single-target knockback (and anti-kiting tool) but again, not CC - Sorcerer's Overload isn't CC either. Push fills resolve so it is considered cc. Very useful for getting someone away from a node, separating a healer from a tank, etc. Freezing Force is absolutely awesome for preventing your opponents from quickly rotating to a new node or advancing in Voidstar.

 

I can't spec into Hilt Strike and Force Grip if I want to play DPS Guardian. And the issue, again, isn't about whether I have CC or not: the issue is that people can be stunned and incapacitated way too often in this game. I think that Resolve is working as intended but the intention is a bit misguided. It's not even about winning, that's not the most important thing to me. Being focused down and destroyed by three DPS is normal. Being stunned while they destroy me so that I can't even throw out a taunt or interrupt a capper is horrible.

 

Of course cc should be used to assist a cap, or no one would ever cap. Being able to trivially avoid/break cc turns defending into a mindless death zerg. No thank you.

 

You seem determined to think of your class as a dps machine while ignoring utility and teamwork. I know teamwork can be in short supply in pug matches, but your opponents face the same issue and sometimes you will get people who do understand how to cooperate. Assuming they don't know how is a self-fulfilling prophecy because you won't be contributing. I'm probably not going to change your mind about resolve with a forum post, but coordination goes a long way to making cc less frustrating.

[Siorac]

Does less frustrating = balanced? I don't give a damn about your frustration, the system in place is balanced and intelligent and whether you like it or not is a non-issue. There's nothing WRONG or BUGGY about it as some people claim, that's all my point is. If you're crying about stuns themselves, use your own or, I dunno, leap to them and become immune to stuns? You have the most anti-CC options as a Guardian ffs.

 

It's a forum, we state opinions; it's not the bug report forum so whether I like it or not has place in the discussion. I don't like the way it currently works. My suggested change - to increase the immunity that Resolve grants - would hardly upset the balance. Neither would the idea that make all CC break on damage. Some classes (Scoundrels, Sorcerers) might need some additional tools to make up for the loss that this change causes them but nothing major.

 

Of course cc should be used to assist a cap, or no one would ever cap. Being able to trivially avoid/break cc turns defending into a mindless death zerg. No thank you.

 

You seem determined to think of your class as a dps machine while ignoring utility and teamwork. I know teamwork can be in short supply in pug matches, but your opponents face the same issue and sometimes you will get people who do understand how to cooperate. Assuming they don't know how is a self-fulfilling prophecy because you won't be contributing. I'm probably not going to change your mind about resolve with a forum post, but coordination goes a long way to making cc less frustrating.

 

It's like you purposefully ignore my point. CC can and should be used to assist a cap - Awe helped us win games plenty of times in Voidstar or Civil War. But during Awe we cannot unload on the poor incapacitated sod. Still helps defending, still gives a lot of strategic options but the other guy doesn't have to get hammered while unable to do anything about it.

 

So, once again: it's not about whether I have the tools to be effective or not. It's not about how awesome Force Push or Freezing Force is. It's not about class balance. It's not about winning games or not.

 

My point is that in this game being stunlocked and hammered is a major part of the experience which, in my opinion, is an inherent design flaw. You spend way too much time incapacitated, rapidly losing HP. Not fun. At all.

[LarryRow]

Ah OK, now we are getting down to it. You want all stuns to break on damage, because you think it's more fun to go down fighting those 2 guys who ganked you than it is to go down stunned. I totally see your point and honestly it would work for quite a few critical stun situations. some exceptions though:

 

A marauder with Undying Rage on can stand in AoE and not be stunned.

Bursting down the last 30% of a scoundrel healer while he's stunned so he can't spam his free heal will no longer be possible.

Your very own Vigilance Guardian won't be able to hold a cleanser in stasis while the DoTs tick.

Stunning people in the fire/acid in huttball.

Probably a few others.

 

There are some crucial tactical uses of stuns+damage. Only some of these problems could be remedied by adding a root effect to the stun that doesn't break on damage. Personally I think the way it is now is fine, especially compared to having to do a major game rebalance, but I do get where you're coming from.

[PloGreen]

yet constantly people bring it up.

 

yet constantly there will be those who disagree with you. just like with every class imbalance thread or every bug fix thread, there will be plenty who will bring up issues with it and there will be those who feel the need to defend it. but do feel free to link me a bioware post that states that resolve has ZERO issues.

 

You need to show me a vid of being stunned 3 times when resolve is full. This thread is full of people claming things that they need to back up with evidence. Because in 6 months of playing pvp i have yet to witness any of the claims in this thread.

 

So therefore the burden of proof is on me to proove it does work? No, iam not the one complaining about a system that is very simple to understand because I know how to play pvp.

 

Ive yet to see any vids of the "broken resolve system" in action that cannot be explained by defensive cooldowns, or lack of understanding of what cc ignores resolve (e.g roots and snares/leaps). So I'm afraid the burden of proof lies with the people claming that the system is "broken". Ive yet to see any, which kind of says it all.

[PloGreen]

I have no idea if he's lying or not, but I just wanted to say that I hate this line, and think it''s a BS demand every time I see it. Maybe it's a rare bug? Maybe he doesn't record video of every single PvP match he participates in? Maybe he simply doesn't care to spend the time trying to reproduce it, to convince a guy on the internet?

 

The lack of a video has no bearing on whether he's telling the truth or not. Which isn't to say he is.

 

Of course it does, because if the system is as broken as he claims a wise person would make a video to demonstrate the "broken resolve system". because a broken system means it happens all the time. Its not broken in the way he describes, and there is no way in hell a sorc can whirlwind someone twice and then hard stun someone. That very statement is a lie and it does not take sherlock holmes to figure out that it never happened - he might think it did, you might be gullible enough to believe it even - well I dont believe what "some guy" claims to be true without backing it up with hard evidence, especially if after 6 months of playing pvp as a sage I have never once cced (hard stun, lift) someone with a full resolve bar...

[ElanSolUgad]

(Republic Commando DPS Gunnery Spec, full WH gear with Augments)

For "stun" read "unable to act whilst stunned"

 

Ok, so I have done some research. I carefully observed a Huttball match against an Imp side with some good and average players.

I had full resolve and someone tried to CC me with a stun. It did not work, I was immune.

I had almost full resolve and someone stunned me which sent my resolve bar to full. I was stunned for a split second and came out of it automatically. Can not explain that.

I had full resolve but was slowed (purple "smoke" around my legs). I applied my cleanse "field aid" three times whilst trying to get away and was not cleansed, I was still slowed. I got killed.

I had a team of two players appearing to play together. I kept getting slowed and rooted but my resolve never got to maximum. As my resolve got to maximum, I got stunned then killed and respawned with full resolve! So that must have been skilled opposition.

I was approaching the goal line and kept getting slowed, then rooted and then killed 1m away from goal line. I was so frustrated. Then I applied all I had read here and had to assume the player attacking me was very good. I suddenly felt better.

 

So in conclusion.

If you are upset about the roots and snares, re-spec to assault specialist where "reactive shield has 100% chance to remove all movement effects". This gives you a cleanse (it does work).

If you keep getting rooted, snared and killed, you are up against good players and that is part of the game. Try to avoid them or change to combat support cell and follow a Jedi about applying heals.

 

To keep playing fun.

If you are a very good player and you have completely overwhelmed another player, please remember that if you keep doing the same thing and targeting the same player, that is going to upset them. You could change your attack tactics which could give you a challenge. You may not care, but that is up to you. I would rather have an enjoyable match and lose than completely destroy the other team so they feel disheartened.

 

I am the type of player that, if we do destroy the opposition, will go over on my own to fight them so they can get some damage and kills rather than medal farm at my turret.

 

Thanks to all the contributors who have helped me grasp this complicated side of the game.

[Wainamoinen]

(Republic Commando DPS Gunnery Spec, full WH gear with Augments)

For "stun" read "unable to act whilst stunned"

 

Pleasure to read a rational post where someone has tried to examine situations. Good job. Think I can explain a couple of your examples.

 

I had almost full resolve and someone stunned me which sent my resolve bar to full. I was stunned for a split second and came out of it automatically. Can not explain that.

 

The stun that sent you to full resolve was one of those that breaks on damage (they tend to be the longer ones - smuggler 8-second flashbang for instance) rather than one that lasts through damage (a "hard stun", i.e. 4-second dirty kick). You were hit by damage after the stun (maybe a dot) and broken free with full resolve. Bad play for them, lucky for you.

 

I had full resolve but was slowed (purple "smoke" around my legs). I applied my cleanse "field aid" three times whilst trying to get away and was not cleansed, I was still slowed. I got killed.

 

It's a force effect, your commando cleanse only works on tech or physical effects so it won't clear it. Think the talented ability you mentioned might do the job.

[laiboch]

As the gent above said. QQ L2P. Noobs crying about everything is a pathetic joke. Play against a good mage in WoW then talk to me about out of control CC. lol. I bet the OP just stands in the middle of the WZ facerolling. Try LoSing the stuns. Ive played every class in WZs. Game is balanced and resolve is fine. QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ. hah!

 

Actually the biggest issue with this game are people like you with your OMG QQ OMG L2P!!! You do not help in any way.

 

The resolve system is a failure. It has been since day 1 and has been a constant topic. A DR (That's Diminishing returns for you idiots that can only respond with QQ L2P) is a much better system and would prevent people from being CC'd from first act till death.

 

As for your learn to LOS the stuns... Ya good luck with that since they are almost all instant cast... Hard to LOS something with no cast time... Its nice to see all pro players like you trying to sound like you are boss when you clearly have no clue and are just a mindless fanboi of a dieing game.

[Daiyukie]

Actually the biggest issue with this game are people like you with your OMG QQ OMG L2P!!! You do not help in any way.

 

The resolve system is a failure. It has been since day 1 and has been a constant topic. A DR (That's Diminishing returns for you idiots that can only respond with QQ L2P) is a much better system and would prevent people from being CC'd from first act till death.

 

Except the Resolve system doesn't fail in any way and you contribute even less with your "QQ change Resolve because I'm bad" posts