carnage vs annihilation for 50 pvp?

[Darth_Bond]

Also if i stay annihilation, should i take defensive forms? Since ill be in juyo form....and im not sure what kind of damage is elemental....

[Endunie]

defensive forms are a must, not so much for the elemental damage reduction. but for the 2 extra fury that you gain when taking damage

 

Edit: i've played annihilation since the start, one-on-one its an awesome spec

Edited July 22, 2012 by Endunie

[Asphen]

Are you aware.......

 

There are THREE specs for this class? /mindboggle

[MasterFeign]

I've liked carnage, though I do admit I haven't tried annihilation yet.

 

I like it though cause it's a bursty spec and it hits hard when I need it to. I realise annihilation probably gives out more dps, but I find that carnage hits harder and faster so to really get rid of those pesky enemies. It's good if you're soloing a node/door (which shouldn't happen but in the unlikely case).

 

What's nice is that I will start with force charge then use force choke, if they stun break this it's fine. Then I use gore then ravage. Then I'll use my critted force scream and get it in to the 4.5 second armour debuff. Then I'll build up my rage and assuming I'll have 30 stacks of rage I'll pop Beserk and assuming gore is off cooldown, I'll use that again and proceed with using Massacre (all 6) 4 of which will be effected by the armour debuff. This is all while ravage is on cooldown, and assuming it's opportunistic, as I won't be able to do this exactly, but that's why we have Frenzy too.

[Darth_Bond]

the final tier talent in annihilation tree, is an ability called annihilate, it hits harder than anything else

 

 

its awsome

[Drator]

Also if i stay annihilation, should i take defensive forms? Since ill be in juyo form....and im not sure what kind of damage is elemental....

 

Here is a link to the spec and gear I play: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/ee18cbd6-7caa-440d-b9fe-5cf966ea4c05

 

Annihilation is perfectly viable in both rateds and in 1v1 situations.

[Xerain]

the final tier talent in annihilation tree, is an ability called annihilate, it hits harder than anything else

 

 

its awsome

 

can't quite say that...

 

A Gore'd crit force scream will hit just as hard if not harder 100% of the time where as with annihilate you have to hope RNG loves you for that crit.

 

A End hit of Ravage will also hit harder

 

A buffed Smash... Def.

[Varicite]

can't quite say that...

 

A Gore'd crit force scream will hit just as hard if not harder 100% of the time where as with annihilate you have to hope RNG loves you for that crit.

 

A End hit of Ravage will also hit harder

 

A buffed Smash... Def.

 

While I agree that this is all true, you can't do any of those as often as Annihilate, especially when buffed. <.<

[UGLYMRJ]

From my experience as carnage and annihilation I prefer annihilation for PvP. WHY? Mobility and it's more difficult to counter for most players.

 

Carnage while it has great burst and hits like a truck... I feel less mobile when using it simply because ravage is a major part of this specs damage. Standing still in PvP is never a good thing... relying on a move that leaves me standing still is just less ideal IMO.

 

One of the perks of carnage other than the burst is the damage done by force scream. It's nice have that 10 meter hit that does a ton of damage where with annihilation your big hitters are 4-5 meters or whatever it is. On top of that carnage has more roots which makes it more difficult to be kited which can be very useful. I almost never used my slow until I spec'd into annihilation. There was almost no need for it.

 

The perks for annihilation is mobility AND it's far less predictable. Carnage IMO is much easier to counter for an average player. You see gore and you run like hell... do whatever you can to get out of there. Carnage is more rotation based where annihilation is more priority based. Rotations are far easier to counter over priorities. You see the same thing over and over and they are pretty much forced into doing the same animations constantly. I see gore... i choke or cloak. Marauder countered.

 

The bleeds are also nice and I like annihilation for the baby heals giving me a little more survivability. It is a slightly more difficult spec to learn to play properly but once it's figured out it's beastly in PvP.

 

Not sure about rage since I've never spec'd it and you didn't even mention it so maybe it's not even an option for you. All I do know is that it's easy mode DPS with the huge smash crits and probably the least used spec for marauders in PvP. Most likely for good reason.

Edited July 24, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

[DNGDangerous]

I play both carnage and annihilation, annihilation is my regular warzone pug spec, while carnage is my rated wz spec. My rated team takes me for predation primarily. They hate how annihilation can be cleansed, so against a good team, it's really hard to count in bleeds to get you through the day. But if your solo queuing for regular warzones, the self sustainability of annihilation is awesome- since people don't battle Rez in regular games.

 

Ps rage is awsome if your rated team is setup for it- so don't over look this spec

[Rafael_Peres]

can't quite say that...

 

A Gore'd crit force scream will hit just as hard if not harder 100% of the time where as with annihilate you have to hope RNG loves you for that crit.

 

A End hit of Ravage will also hit harder

 

A buffed Smash... Def.

Gore don't affect Force Scream dmg. The low cooldowns of Force Scream and the 100% criticals at Blood Frenzy that do reasonable dmg.

 

My experience with Carnage marauder since lvl 11 to 50 is that it's a great spec tree for PvE. But since you do direct damage and the the Gore effect is a must to boost dmg done, it's a bit hard to do nice dmg at PvP cause if someone break you rotations frequently you will end the warzone with low dmg scores, but if you play against people that can't break you rotations you will kill em pretty fast.

However with Anihilation spec the constantly stuns and interrupts at wz's can beak your rotations but not the bleeding effects of your strikes already done.

[Xerain]

While I agree that this is all true, you can't do any of those as often as Annihilate, especially when buffed. <.<

 

And how often does annihilation hit 3 stacks when focusing people down? How often do you get the full duration of your dots off on a target while focusing someone down? How often does Annihilation reach it's full potential when pvp is much more organized?

 

1. Never and if you do get full dot ticks off on a target you're either A. Not focusing down people well enough. B. You don't know how to target switch off a guarded target. or C. Your DOT's are getting cleansed off.

 

2. It doesn't because well see 1.

 

 

Gore don't affect Force Scream dmg. The low cooldowns of Force Scream and the 100% criticals at Blood Frenzy that do reasonable dmg.

 

My experience with Carnage marauder since lvl 11 to 50 is that it's a great spec tree for PvE. But since you do direct damage and the the Gore effect is a must to boost dmg done, it's a bit hard to do nice dmg at PvP cause if someone break you rotations frequently you will end the warzone with low dmg scores, but if you play against people that can't break you rotations you will kill em pretty fast.

However with Anihilation spec the constantly stuns and interrupts at wz's can beak your rotations but not the bleeding effects of your strikes already done.

 

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/cRZ1G4W/force-scream <huh kintetic damage. Pretty sure armor blocks Kinetic and Energy damage. I guess you never noticed that damage jump between force scream with and without gore.

[Y-Yorle]

Gore don't affect Force Scream dmg. The low cooldowns of Force Scream and the 100% criticals at Blood Frenzy that do reasonable dmg.

 

Gore gives you 100% armor penetration on all your abilities, and since Force Scream is kinetic damage based (with kinetic damage being reduced by armor) it actually does affect Force Scream. It sure has gotten me 3,7k critical hits on occasion in the 10-49 warzones.

[Varicite]

And how often does annihilation hit 3 stacks when focusing people down? How often do you get the full duration of your dots off on a target while focusing someone down? How often does Annihilation reach it's full potential when pvp is much more organized?

 

1. Never and if you do get full dot ticks off on a target you're either A. Not focusing down people well enough. B. You don't know how to target switch off a guarded target. or C. Your DOT's are getting cleansed off.

 

2. It doesn't because well see 1.

 

Annihilate is a 12 second cd baseline, before the stacking cd reduction buff. Gore is 15 seconds, so Annihilate already wins here.

 

Neither you or I ever said anything about dots in our posts prior to this, so I fail to see why you're mentioning them now.

 

This isn't about whether or not I think that Annihilation is a better spec as far as team play goes (I play Carnage and always have, btw), but the ability Annihilate itself is pretty awesome and I'm not too pro-Carnage to admit that. <.<

[Xerain]

Annihilate is a 12 second cd baseline, before the stacking cd reduction buff. Gore is 15 seconds, so Annihilate already wins here.

 

Neither you or I ever said anything about dots in our posts prior to this, so I fail to see why you're mentioning them now.

 

This isn't about whether or not I think that Annihilation is a better spec as far as team play goes (I play Carnage and always have, btw), but the ability Annihilate itself is pretty awesome and I'm not too pro-Carnage to admit that. <.<

 

I was comparing specs overall. They're both good but for different reasons. I was just pointing out the ups and downs.

[Varicite]

I was comparing specs overall. They're both good but for different reasons. I was just pointing out the ups and downs.

 

I know, and I was agreeing w/ you in general.

 

I was only arguing the finer point of Annihilation vs. the other abilities that you had mentioned. : )

[zxckakel]

It's a matter of preference really.

[UGLYMRJ]

Even though I personally prefer annihilation carnage is probably a better spec for PvP on a more competitive level, like ranked WZ's.

 

In ranked WZ's you will actually end up getting ur dots cleansed.

Carnage is capable of higher burst instead of the sustained damage dealt by annihilation so healers will drop easier and faster.

Improved predation.

 

I'm still fighting the urge to make the switch to carnage because I enjoy annihilation much more, but as we're getting into ranked more I'm see the need for carnage more and more.

[Wolfpax]

I have use both annihilation and carnage on my toon. Annihilation is great for those dots (and for me that where crit and sug comes into play) but for just a beat down type, Carnage is the way to go. Annihilation adds that little bump to the dots when you really just need that last 1%, healing off it helps alot as will, and you never really miss when it comes to dots. Carnage, on the other hand, is holding your own as you beat the person quickly and painfully. I found it to be very usefull when going vs troopers, juggs, bh and jedi gaurds (you know, the heavy armor classes). Over all, it does come down to your playing and what you feel that best fits you.

[DarthOvertone]

From my experience as carnage and annihilation I prefer annihilation for PvP. WHY? Mobility and it's more difficult to counter for most players.

 

^ This for me. I love the mobility and freedom of Annihilation. It's so fun.

[Drator]

In ranked WZ's you will actually end up getting ur dots cleansed.

Carnage is capable of higher burst instead of the sustained damage dealt by annihilation so healers will drop easier and faster.

 

Keep in mind that you're not the only one dropping debuffs on people in RWZs. So, unless you're off on your own trying solo someone who can cleanse, you don't have to worry about it nearly as much as people seem to portray it on the forums.

 

Yes, carnage has high burst during gore (as long as you don't get punted/pulled/stunned/mezzed during it). But annih has more overall damage (even considering cleanses) and still has solid burst.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Drator

[lpsmash]

Carnage is a really awesome spec. I know Annihilation (the move) hits like a truck, but Gore is probably the best Marauder ability, since its change in 1.3. It makes your ravage, berserk and force scream tear through almost anything. The Berserk from Ataru Form is better damage-wise than Juyo.

 

You lose some sustained damage, but you gain a lot of burst. The biggest lost imo are the group-wide heals.

 

Rage works too, but the spec is a lot better for Juggernauts.

Edited July 27, 2012 by lpsmash

[Xerain]

Even though I personally prefer annihilation carnage is probably a better spec for PvP on a more competitive level, like ranked WZ's.

 

In ranked WZ's you will actually end up getting ur dots cleansed.

Carnage is capable of higher burst instead of the sustained damage dealt by annihilation so healers will drop easier and faster.

Improved predation.

 

I'm still fighting the urge to make the switch to carnage because I enjoy annihilation much more, but as we're getting into ranked more I'm see the need for carnage more and more.

 

I was the same exact way TBH. Love the Annihilation play style and the durability it can bring with it but the burst on carnage is just so good... doing the damage I do with massacre is amazing... 3k massacre crits with 1100 ataru procs.

[Phobi]

Whats your carnage rotation for pvp?

[Omophorus]

Whats your carnage rotation for pvp?

 

Rotation? For Carnage? For PVP?

 

Build Rage > use Gore > burst through Gore window (Ravage or Berserk+Massacre spam usually, with or without a Force Scream at the end, depending on the situation) > go back to building Rage, and dump any excess with Massacre spam.

 

Overall, awesome spec with an organized team, but frustrating as all get-out if you're just solo queueing to get a daily done or something. Annihilation is far more self-sufficient, so if you can't count on your team, it's definitely a more forgiving spec to play. As the level of play goes up, value of Anni goes down and Carnage comes into its own.