What do Healers look for in tanks?

[Dajman]

Since I started playing MMOs I have always played quick healing classes. Since I started TOR I have wanted to tank. Not leveling a max level healer yet I figured I would ask those who have.

 

What is something that you as a healer look for in a good tank.

 

I for one am a big fan of tanks that take constant low damage over tanks that depend on RNG to keep them alive. Nothing worse than your tank taking no damage for 10 seconds and then getting smashed over and over again for really high damage because they build around avoidance. (in wow it was the deathknights drove me insane vs paladins who I loved healing)

 

Like I said I want to tank and I believe the best tanks are the ones that the healers love healing. Any one class you prefer to heal more or any little things that drive you insane about tanks when in groups (other than aggro)?

 

Please help me out by describing the perfect tank!

[doodbro]

Call targets. Tell DPS what to do. Bust DPS balls when he breaks CC or doesn't follow your targeting order. The reason I like tanks who do this is so I don't have to be the whiny healer guy. Good tanks know how to size up a battle and take charge. Not an apt comparison, but you can kind of like the point guard running the floor. Edited July 20, 2012 by doodbro

[Dajman]

I like that. Marking is something I loved about good tanks. When does marking start to make a difference? Are there instances that just dont need it or should I be in control from the start of every group for how a pull is going to happen? I see alot of DPS who like jumping in and go go go. They dont like waiting for the marks thinking they can burn the world and not get hurt. I feel bad for healers in that situation because I have been there where you try to rest and get ready for the next fight and BAM dead dps "*** WHY NO TANK AND HEALS!"

[Cleet_Xia]

# 1 - I like tanks that are actually, honestly, and truely, 100% specced/geared as tanks.... There is nothing more infuriating than a tank saying, "well I'm not relly spec'ed/geared for this anyway cya" after we wipe trying to clear something 4 times. yeah thx..... /block [player name]

 

# 2 - I like tanks that wait for their healer and dps to use their out of combat heals before pulling fresh aggro

 

# 3 - I like tanks that actually use their tanking stance & guard on anybody - because some don't.... Why other's don't... don't know.

 

# 4 - I like tanks that turn the mob - so that some of the AoE's don't land on everyone.

 

In short .... I like a tank plays like there are other people in the group. And recognizes the fact that they're only getting to tank, because they have healers and damage dealers with them.

[Easpeak]

My usual PvP scenario:

We start fighting - I have one or two enemies on me the entire fight. So if it was 6 vs 6 in Civil War middle node. I tie up 2 of their players by running around, kiting, trying to heal myself and occasionally throwing out a heal or two for the team while the rest of my team kills their remaining 4. Game comes down to whether those 2 kill me first or my team kills their remaining team first. I end up healing for 300-500k while taking ~250-400k damage.

 

In short I'd like a tank that actually doesn't just mindlessly keep his guard on me, but would take an active role - taunt, CC, peel, use his defensives on me. I don't know how many times I've died because instead of using a CC and giving me 4-8 seconds of breathing time for some quick heals the tank/helper tries to DPS the attacker down. Play it smart.

[Vugluskr]

Honestly, I do not expect much from PuG tanks, especially in LFG runs. If at least tank uses Guard on right teammate I consider him as super competent player. If two tanks are able to count to 10 in a Fabricator's fight I feel blessed.

 

Do you want to look good in a healer's eyes? It is very simple.

• Do not rush. Healers have to regenerate resource between pulls.
  
• Do not pull if your health pool is below 75%.
  
• Do not guard your healer. There are at least two better targets for your Guard in a group.
  
• Do not overestimate your teams power. It is better to advance slower but safer.
  
• Trust your healer. Do not scream in a chat every time your health pool drops below 50%.
  

[JFerret]

I disagree with those that say tanks should guard DPS instead of healers except for some ec hm bosses. I can hold aggro and if any more ads join a fight I pick them up, if the DPS are doing there job correctly they are taking care of the weak/strongs whilst I am tanking the elites/bosses so why would I need to lower their threat with those crappy ads? I would much rather avoid my healer taking damage at all so they can focus on healing the team rather than themself and by the time the DPS join me on the elite/boss I have enough aggro to keep them.

 

If you are a DPS that runs into the fight before the tank and you take all the aggro and you think you deserve a guard you are badly mistaken, you deserve a vote kick and nothing else.

 

By the way I have a healer alt aswell and have cleared all hm content with him also and apart from those same ec hm bosses I expect a guard every time.

[vojinsa]

love and understanding.

[Vugluskr]

I disagree with those that say tanks should guard DPS instead of healers except for some ec hm bosses. I can hold aggro and if any more ads join a fight I pick them up, if the DPS are doing there job correctly they are taking care of the weak/strongs whilst I am tanking the elites/bosses so why would I need to lower their threat with those crappy ads? I would much rather avoid my healer taking damage at all so they can focus on healing the team rather than themself and by the time the DPS join me on the elite/boss I have enough aggro to keep them.

Good DD generates tons of threat. On a boss fight with enrage timer he should not lower damage output because of tank guards a healer. If tank does not care about DPS generating threat, he is bad tank. The more healer have to heal the less he loves his tank. Of course, it is always better to be guarded and to take less damage from enemies, but a healer can withstand few hits from adds or random trash.

 

Tanks should guard healers only in PVP.

[JFerret]

I dont have an issue with losing aggro to DPS except on firebrand and stormcaller which is when i guard dps and I have never asked a dps to slow down with damage so your argument doesnt stack up. If I have aggro dps aint taking damage, healer can focus on tank. I believe people who think dps need a guard are obviously tanks who cant hold aggro or dps who pull aggro from a tank who cant hold aggro, problem there is the tank.

 

but a healer can withstand few hits from adds or random trash.

 

And whilst taking those hits from adds or random trash they are unable to heal. Good tactic :/

Edited July 20, 2012 by JFerret

[z-monty]

My biggest peeve with running groups that you dont know is that everyone runs off after each mob, or even boss, with their health still down. Now I can live with having 90% or even 80ish% health, but when its lower than that you need to stop and use your out of combat heal. Maybe its me, but there's not a worse feeling when a gung-ho dps jumps into a group, even if it is a trash mob, when he still has lower health.

 

A dps can do that and wait for the healer to catch up, but he'd be an idiot to do that and go without the tank. If tanks are going to be the generals that mark everything and spit out strategy, let the healers be your second in command and set the pace of the run. Trust me, no matter what all the NPCs yell at you, the boss isnt going anywhere. Obviously I want a tank to be compitent, put the guard on me, etc. but not letting the dps set the pace of the fight by running around without full health is one thing that I would instantly love my tank for.

[Vugluskr]

And whilst taking those hits from adds or random trash they are unable to heal. Good tactic :/

I can heal while taking hits from adds, I can deal with trash myself, and your 5% DR is useless (no offense, but I really do not know how Guard can help a healer). Anyway, you can do nothing with scripted turrets or adds that attack healers during boss fights. If a healer can not stand still and wait for tank to taunt or for DD to kill someone, he is not a competent healer.

 

I like tanks who are smart enough to see if their healers do not require baby-sitting.

[JFerret]

Anyway, you can do nothing with scripted turrets or adds that attack healers during boss fights.

 

If a healer can not stand still and wait for tank to taunt or for DD to kill someone, he is not a competent healer.

 

Two sentences which contradict each other, you say you can do nothing with scripted turrets or adds that go for healers yet then you say you stand still and wait for tank to taunt?

 

Thats what a tank can/should do taunt...

[wetslampigduex]

I dont have an issue with losing aggro to DPS except on firebrand and stormcaller which is when i guard dps and I have never asked a dps to slow down with damage so your argument doesnt stack up. If I have aggro dps aint taking damage, healer can focus on tank. I believe people who think dps need a guard are obviously tanks who cant hold aggro or dps who pull aggro from a tank who cant hold aggro, problem there is the tank.

 

 

idk about this i have 3 50's all tanks and i'll tell you right now i never ever guard a healer in pve(its pretty simple to notice a mob running past you to a healer/ranged dps... and honestly if you DPS cant rip aggro off you they are doing something wrong(a PT pyro can pull aggro w/o blinking an eye as can maras/snipers) it is 100 times easier to hold it since the buff. I'm not saying it happens often to me but it does happen and your either kidding yourself or have terribad dps that doesn't know how to burst... not trying to pick a fight but if your not guarding a PT/mara/sniper your not doing it right imo

[JFerret]

Maybe its you thats not doing it right or the dps are taking aggro first. I do only play rep but cant see it being much different for imps. My tank is a guardian and I know as long as I get the first hit I can hold aggro (you do realise you can taunt?) and the dps in the raid team are fine, we dont hit enrage timers.

[Vugluskr]

Two sentences which contradict each other, you say you can do nothing with scripted turrets or adds that go for healers yet then you say you stand still and wait for tank to taunt?

 

Thats what a tank can/should do taunt...

Do you really believe that your 5% Guard transforms healer into immortal god in PvE fight?

[JFerret]

Do you really believe that your 5% Guard transforms healer into immortal god in PvE fight?

 

No and I havent said that at all, any other comments of mine you want to twist to make your argument sound better?

[Vugluskr]

No and I havent said that at all, any other comments of mine you want to twist to make your argument sound better?

Why then not to guard melee DD who stands near tank and may take occasional hits from boss's wide swings? Why not to guard DD who hits like a truck and may (potentially) pull aggro from you? Why to guard healer who stand 30m away from you, who never pulls aggro from enemies you are holding, who generate only healing threat, who can survive random damage and heal himself?

 

For a healer it is better when DD is guarded, takes less damage and never pulls aggro from a tank.

Edited July 20, 2012 by Vugluskr

[JFerret]

DPS dont take damage if they are positioned correctly unless its from AOE, for example if I do Toth & Zorn with a melee on Toth then I guard the melee but in most cases I will guard the healer. Good healers dps when they can and when they dont have any healing to do and so it isnt always healing threat.

 

I think you need to understand not everyone plays the game the same way and all I have stated is an opinion of mine and it works, having cleared hm ec with both healer and tank numerous times, why would I change to guarding DPS when I dont need to?

[Vugluskr]

DPS dont take damage if they are positioned correctly unless its from AOE, for example if I do Toth & Zorn with a melee on Toth then I guard the melee but in most cases I will guard the healer. Good healers dps when they can and when they dont have any healing to do and so it isnt always healing threat.

 

I think you need to understand not everyone plays the game the same way and all I have stated is an opinion of mine and it works, having cleared hm ec with both healer and tank numerous times, why would I change to guarding DPS when I dont need to?

You are definitely not a tank I enjoy healing. I do not say you are bad tank and can not do your job, but playing with tanks like you is not fun for me because they do not want to help their teammates.

 

If you are tank and think that guarding a healer makes your job easier, do so. Anyway, this thread is not about being effective tank, but about being a good tank in a healers eyes. I write from a healers point of view. I heal every Operation in every mode and I know only one encounter where guarding a healer may provide a little bit of help (guarding a healer who solve Fabricator's puzzle on NM mode).

 

if you want to help your healer - guard DD, if you do not mind to waste the greatest ability you have - guard a healer.

[Dajman]

You are definitely not a tank I enjoy healing. I do not say you are bad tank and can not do your job, but playing with tanks like you is not fun for me because they do not want to help their teammates.

 

If you are tank and think that guarding a healer makes your job easier, do so. Anyway, this thread is not about being effective tank, but about being a good tank in a healers eyes. I write from a healers point of view. I heal every Operation in every mode and I know only one encounter where guarding a healer may provide a little bit of help (guarding a healer who solve Fabricator's puzzle on NM mode).

 

if you want to help your healer - guard DD, if you do not mind to waste the greatest ability you have - guard a healer.

 

 

The guard aspect is new and different from other MMO's I have played from what I have seen and I appreciate the comments about that. This is very insightful and I will be sure to check where guard will be best in my eyes from fight to fight.

 

I do appreciate those who are not derailing the thread and I like all comments so far. Anything else to make your healers happy?

 

I understand that a happy healer is the best healer. So far I have this and if I miss any thing keep adding!

 

-Mark the targets for CC and aim order.

 

-Give time in between pulls for resource regen (this one I have always been on the edge of and all resources work differently from mana based games.)

 

-Don't let your healer be the bad guy by taking lead of the group and putting DPS in their places rather than letting them control the pace of the run.

 

-WATCH WHO YOU GUARD. Every fight is different and every group is different. Different situations call for a different setup.

 

-If tanking in PVP peeling should take priority to dealing damage. A dead healer is a healer who just couldn't kite forever on their own.

 

-And for the love of all that is holy and good... If you want to tank TANK you have skill trees and gear that makes that easier for your and your team! Dont play a tank who specs for damage and gears to that goal.

TL:DR

 

A demotivated healer is a less effective healer.

 

To keep your healers in tip top shape you need to know their peeves and work to not push those buttons!

 

The tank is the part of the group that I feel is really just there to make everyone else's life easier. (aside from true raid or ops bosses) most things can be killed through good CC and great healing. I want to make YOUR job as a healer more enjoyable.

Edited July 20, 2012 by Dajman
For got the gear and spec as a tank!

[Cleet_Xia]

That is a GREAT list !!

 

The only thing I would add is.

 

"Always remember it isn't your job as a tank to kill anything, just to make everything hate you, and somehow live through it."

[Chaqen]

It seems like a lot of people are expecting the tank to carry the group, to do all of the coordination, tell everyone what to do... no wonder there is a shortage of tanks in the game.

 

I prefer a tank that knows how to keep agro on what he needs to, and that is rather quick with pulling. Avoiding as much avoidable damage is always a plus as well but t be honest really doesnt matter with how easy FPs are now days.

 

I also like tanks that know how to gear themselves efficiently...since the majority of black hole gear is crap for tanks, and require alot of remodding and moving things about to be effective... more times then not i run across tanks in nothing but 61 armourings and mods that are nothing but heal sponges. Also i appericate a tank that focuses on their secondary stats more so then endurance... yea i am calling out those 26 to 28k tanks that take hits worst then a marauder.

 

But on a final note, it doesnt really mean ****, until we actually get some challenging content in the game, in the mean time iwill continue healing stupidity until the cows come home.

[Codle]

My biggest problem with tanks in this game (obviously not all, but plenty that I've played with) is keeping aggro. I don't know how healing factors in with threat levels compared to normal attacks, but the amount of times I've had to sit there and heal myself in a flashpoint is ridiculous. Even when I only have 1 or 2 on me, I keep getting pushbacks on my main heals, which is obviously a negative. Then, if I complain, they always say 'Well I was making sure the gold didn't kill you all!' I'm not the most experienced player, but it doesn't sit right to me that a tank's job is apparently done as long as he has hold of the toughest enemy, even if the adds are on the healer.

 

Also, going on a slight tangent, DPS that focus the main boss, and leave adds on the healer is another thing that annoys me.

 

Sorry for the venting, felt it necessary.

 

If I'm wrong, feel free to tell me, like I say, I'm not the most experienced player at all.

[Vugluskr]

My biggest problem with tanks in this game (obviously not all, but plenty that I've played with) is keeping aggro. I don't know how healing factors in with threat levels compared to normal attacks, but the amount of times I've had to sit there and heal myself in a flashpoint is ridiculous. Even when I only have 1 or 2 on me, I keep getting pushbacks on my main heals, which is obviously a negative. Then, if I complain, they always say 'Well I was making sure the gold didn't kill you all!' I'm not the most experienced player, but it doesn't sit right to me that a tank's job is apparently done as long as he has hold of the toughest enemy, even if the adds are on the healer.

 

Also, going on a slight tangent, DPS that focus the main boss, and leave adds on the healer is another thing that annoys me.

 

Sorry for the venting, felt it necessary.

 

If I'm wrong, feel free to tell me, like I say, I'm not the most experienced player at all.

Some enemies are scripted to attack the strongest healer. Turrets, for example, that appear during HK-47 fight always start firing at a healer because of huge healing threat generated at the beginning of the combat. It is normal for a healer to take few hits - sometimes DD and healers should deal with adds by themselves because tank is really busy or very far away. Take a look, for example, at Bonetrasher: if enrage add or Manka cat appear near you - what would you expect from a tank there?