And some people try to claim Powertechs are fine

[Keypek]

MY Ion Pulse on my Vanguard regularily crits (31%) at over 2k (2.5k being a good estimate) and I'm still largely in BM gear. (with my damage capability still well below what it could be once my gear is full WH and custom modded to my liking, my current primary damage being over 150 less than my Scoundrel at the moment. Those crits will just keep getting better) With High Energy Cell loaded I can happily spam that attack forever and a day with just a few other attacks weaved in.

 

10m range is fine, in fact that's a boon as I can still kite melee classes and push out that attack (with added slow it just gets better)

 

The point was not that it was an elemental attack, the point was that it was an instant cast, spammable elemental attack. Easy money.

 

Heavy armour is an advantage over other armour types, against quite a few attacks .

 

But you are tactics spec'ed, or at least assuming since you are using high energy cell. Ion Pulse hits a heck of a lot harder in tactics then it does in assault so not sure how this is relevent to this thread. Unless you are talking about some kind of hybrid spec with assault but if you are using high energy cell you are not snaring anyone with ion pulse so there is no added slow.

[KBSIP]

To the OP.

 

Be sure to check your combat log after events like this.

There are Damage hacks out there that MAY explain what happened, especially as you had popped all your defensive cd's.

 

I was in a novare coast a while ago and a guy got hit for 18k in one hit.. Twice in the same match.

Each time it showed up in the personal combat log, but not in the scoreboard log at the end of the game.

Just a heads up on that possible issue.

 

On topic I certainly think PT's/Vanguards are OP they out burst what you would think would be the burst classes ie Scoundrels and Shadows.

 

Just not sure that this is an example of that or something else.

Combat log ftw.

 

Finally, people who have trolled you mercilessly in this thread need to grow up and certainly be more respectful.

 

OP's entire first post is trolling and flame bait. also, nice objectivity, i'm sure you have a very unbiased opinion about classes while you QQ about it outbursting the two AC's in your signature. try not to be so on-the-nose, it makes you look like an ***.

[PlagaNerezza]

Summary:

 

• Light AC Classes are not getting the highest DPS in exchange for the loss of AR they expected.
  
• Ranged Classes are continuing to have the same or higher DPS than melee classes with perfect setup that require a close in range to execute.
  
• Defensive abilities do not mitigate enough damage.
  
• Defensive abilities mitigate to much damage.
  
• CC and Resolve result in stunlock way to frequently.
  
• Pyrotechs setup is too easy and fast to execute.
  

 

I think dmg mitigation skills are sufficient in the Inquisitor and Warrior classes as I've played those and fought them enough to know you can mitigate an incoming dps spike in those AC's. I don't think sniper/gs mitigation skills worked well enough and that might be the cause of the OPS issues in this case.

 

My Thoughts for Address By Developers:

• I do think pyro doesn't have enough counters or negatives towards its current dps output. IE hard setup to do it, thoughtful energy management, easy for a player to cleanse before the crit kicks.
  
• I do think the Sniper/GS AC's defensive skills don't work properly.
  
• Cover and the defensive skills are not consistent at mitigation.
  
• Light Armor wearing DPS specc'd classes need a DPS boost.
  
• Melee DPS Setups should hit harder than a ranged DPS Setup.
  
• My geared tanksin does consistently do good dmg with defense, but my pure dps build will never burst like a pyro and I have light armor, reduced mitigation and need range and stealth to even crit for 7k with it.
  
• Fix Resolve. I don't like its current method that results in consent reduced movement speed with consistent times I am frozen inplace for extended time. Star Wars > Stun Wars
  

 

thanks for reading.

[Sildanar]

OP's entire first post is trolling and flame bait. also, nice objectivity, i'm sure you have a very unbiased opinion about classes while you QQ about it outbursting the two AC's in your signature. try not to be so on-the-nose, it makes you look like an ***.

 

Nice work :

 

My Scoundrel is a Healer.

My Shadow is a Hybrid built for more sustained rather than burst.

 

You totally fail to address the main issue in my Post in that it may not have been Pyrotechs being OP but a damage hack, well done ignoring my main point.

 

Yes I do think that Pyro's are OP so what, plenty here on the forums think the same

but one line in a post really focussing on dmg hacks is QQing about it?

Hardly.

[KBSIP]

Nice work :

 

My Scoundrel is a Healer.

My Shadow is a Hybrid built for more sustained rather than burst.

 

You totally fail to address the main issue in my Post in that it may not have been Pyrotechs being OP but a damage hack, well done ignoring my main point.

 

Yes I do think that Pyro's are OP so what, plenty here on the forums think the same

but one line in a post really focussing on dmg hacks is QQing about it?

Hardly.

 

the OP has already admitted the fight was at least 7 seconds long, I don't think 2 of any burster need longer than 7-10 seconds to 2v1 a target, even if they pop a 20% DR cooldown. I'm more inclined to believe either the OP suffered a major lag burst, or they weren't paying attention to their own health bar that entire time, than I am to call hacks, especially considering the OP was apparently both severely outgeared, and intentionally entering melee range on a pyro PT with a gunslinger.

[Theagg]

if the discussion is about pyrotech powertechs, and thus assault vanguards, you shouldn't include your tactics vanguard, which has 10-15% extra fire damage, and 30% EXTRA surge for ion pulse, along with GUARANTEED heat venting every 6 seconds as supposed to the MUST RAILSHOT TO VENT mechanic of pyros and assault. fact is; ion pulse and flame burst spam DOES overheat pyros/assault because they don't have the passive venting of tactics/advanced prototype.

 

unless, of course, you're accessing a 27/27 spec, in which case I'd like to know how you're also simultaneously using CGC/plasma cell and HEGC

 

Fair points for Pyro Powertechs. but the OP's initial post and the title of this thread just reads "Powertechs" with no mention of the specific skill tree. (Since many players might not know exactly how the guy that is rapidly burning them down is specced anyway) And besides, numerous posts on these forums would have readers believe that the Assault/Pyro tree is the most powerful of the three by far. So even if you want to make the distinction re my Tactics specced Vanguard and a Pyro specced Powertech, the latter should be pushing out even more damage overall than me

 

So be even more troublesome.

[Sildanar]

the OP has already admitted the fight was at least 7 seconds long, I don't think 2 of any burster need longer than 7-10 seconds to 2v1 a target, even if they pop a 20% DR cooldown. I'm more inclined to believe either the OP suffered a major lag burst, or they weren't paying attention to their own health bar that entire time, than I am to call hacks, especially considering the OP was apparently both severely outgeared, and intentionally entering melee range on a pyro PT with a gunslinger.

 

I encouraged the OP to check their Combat log next time so that details on actually what hapened are known.

 

I dont assume what happened, I just gave a heads up about an issue the I clearly stated "MAY" have happened.

Let me be really clear here, I did not say it was hacks..I said that there are dmg hacks out there that MAY explain what happened, then just to reinforce the point I mentioned checking combat logs a second time.

 

I make no comment about the OP's pvp skill, wisdom of enterng combat or anything else.

Rather than dismissing the OP's experience and replacing it with what I think happened, I have paid him/her the courtesy of listening to what they experienced and offering another viewpoint that might help explain the issue.

 

In other words I was offering a constructive alternative viewpoint.

[anwg]

Gunslingers have 35 meter range on rifle shots, he could just kite and not get touched even once by the PTs.

[LightForse]

Gunslingers have 35 meter range on rifle shots, he could just kite and not get touched even once by the PTs.

 

LoL..and when he stops to cast..cause you know he has to stop and cast his big hitting spells..the enemy is just gonna stand there and not get in range to dps ...LoL

[DCVAN]

The time to kill is just way too low. Classes like pyrotechs and marauders have become op only because their class mechanics are better suited for this gibfest. Pyrotechs deal burst damage with little to no setup, and marauders shine because they can survive long enough to kill people with their defensive cd's. I honestly think if the TTK was longer, we wouldn't see as many complaints about maras and PTs.

[anwg]

LoL..and when he stops to cast..cause you know he has to stop and cast his big hitting spells..the enemy is just gonna stand there and not get in range to dps ...LoL

 

Except GS has multiple no/low cooldown instants that have 35 meter range.

Edited July 20, 2012 by anwg

[shegoy]

BW gave us Combat logs for more than just admiring our own DPS output.

 

I would like to see more people actually making these type of threads based off facts and gathered data.

 

All we can take from the original post was you encountered 2 PT's one must have been Pyro as you recall receiving a Thermal Detonator to the head and that's about it as far as fact goes you are assuming and expecting others to assume your plight was unjustifiable off the back of the general feeling Pro/Assault are OP.

 

The community needs to dissect your combat log to even get a glimpse of truly what went on in those few seconds you claim to have lived for. Can i make a note to everyone who wants to make a similar claim on what is wrong and what isn't by enabling combat logging and backing up your claims with more than speculation.

 

If you fail to do that you have as much weight in your argument as someone apposing a change on PTS notes and kicking up a stink on the forums without even taking the time in testing the content yourself and gathering the facts.

[LightForse]

Again..a Tank AC doing more damage than a dps ac is wrong..dont care what you think. PT's should not be doing more damage than Merc's..vanguards should not be doing more dps than commandos...Assasins should not be doing more damage than dps sages...understand ! And to have their tanky survivability is just insane!.. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=507103 are putting out too mush dps for a Tank Ac period.

[KBSIP]

Again..a Tank AC doing more damage than a dps ac is wrong..dont care what you think. PT's should not be doing more damage than Merc's..vanguards should not be doing more dps than commandos...Assasins should not be doing more damage than dps sages...understand ! And to have their tanky survivability is just insane!.. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=507103 are putting out too mush dps for a Tank Ac period.

 

mercenary is a healing AC, not a DPS AC.

 

the only two DPS only ac's are snipers and marauders.

 

also; melee should always outclass ranged DPS because melee naturally has more uptime in both PVP and PVE fights thanks to boss mechanics/kiting abilities.

 

also; mercenaries and powertechs have the exact same armor and defensive cooldown, mercenaries have more survival overall because of being able to operate at 30 meter range.

 

please, be more wrong

Edited July 20, 2012 by KBSIP

[Skolops]

Except GS has multiple no/low cooldown instants that have 35 meter range.

 

No, not really.

 

Sharpshooters have instant charged burst (every 6 seconds) and instant trickshot, which can only be used after charged burst or aimed shot (1.4 second cast time). Add to this that its necessary to enter cover to do the charged burst, which I and most GSes worth their salt can do pretty fast and move again, but its still somewhat of a delay.

 

Dirty Fighters have instant Vital Shot, Shrap bomb, and Hemmorahging blast, which are just dots and aren't gonna kill anything by themselves before they kill you. Their big DPSers are wounding shots and speedshot, which are 2.8 second casts.

 

Add to this that, as has been pointed out BY POWERTECHS the whole concept of kiting powertechs is a complete myth anyways, as everything they have is instant, they have a pull to close the gap, their CGC puts an almost infinite slow on you, etc.

[DimeStax]

I just entered a warzone near the end with my Gunslinger. I found my team losing so I decided to go try to solo a point as it was really all there was left to do. As I approached the point I saw they had 2 powertechs guarding it, so I knew it was not a likely opportunity for success but hey, what else is there to do but give it a go?

 

As soon as I got anywhere near it, one of the powertechs got his thermal detonator on me and the other was running over, so I popped every single defensive cooldown I had - which are off the GCD, btw - and proceded to fire a single instant cast shot before literally dying.

 

That's right, 2 powertechs were able to nuke my 16k HP - not all the way there, by any means, but not terrible by any stretch of the imagination, either - in a basically a single GCD.

 

So yes, pay no attention to powertechs. They're completely fine and in no need whatsoever of a nerf.

 

Not sure if you're trolling... PT Pyros most damaging attack is Railshot which is a white damage attack... if you popped all your cooldowns like you said you did this would include Evasion which makes you immune from Railshot for 3 seconds... and without Railshot they wouldn't have been able to kill you in 1 GCD... so yeah.... L2P?

[Skolops]

Not sure if you're trolling... PT Pyros most damaging attack is Railshot which is a white damage attack... if you popped all your cooldowns like you said you did this would include Evasion which makes you immune from Railshot for 3 seconds... and without Railshot they wouldn't have been able to kill you in 1 GCD... so yeah.... L2P?

 

Very clearly have read none of the posts other than the first. Please feel free to respond when you have gotten up to date on the discussion.

[Slurmez]

Its a long time coming but pyros will get a kick in the nads soon enough like ops did then you can savour their tears as they clamour on the boards about how their spec was fine and actually weak.....

[KBSIP]

Its a long time coming but pyros will get a kick in the nads soon enough like ops did then you can savour their tears as they clamour on the boards about how their spec was fine and actually weak.....

 

then I'll just respec to AP and still stomp people like the OP who try to leap into a 2v1 against dps spec/classes, except now I'll be unkiteable because of H overrides, an in combat speed boost, and the snare on RB or PFT. all of this on a spec that is considered fairly weak. good times, bads will be bads.

[Slurmez]

then I'll just respec to AP and still stomp people like the OP who try to leap into a 2v1 against dps spec/classes, except now I'll be unkiteable because of H overrides, an in combat speed boost, and the snare on RB or PFT. all of this on a spec that is considered fairly weak. good times, bads will be bads.

 

so that spec is awesome and yet you are still running around as a pyro fotm, another ringing endorsement

[KBSIP]

so that spec is awesome and yet you are still running around as a pyro fotm, another ringing endorsement

 

the spec is limited by a reliance on a 10 meter cone every 12 seconds to be its primary burster, it will never compare to a spec that is fully mobile. in PVP pyro will always be better than AP because of this. in PVE, pyro's burst is more important in end game, specifically for opening burst windows on baradium bombers and walker phases on kephess. AP is strong, but needs some buffing before it can be considered competition with a pyro in either a PVE or PVP sense. to be fair, resource management on an AP is a joke, easiest damage dealer to manage heat on from what I've seen, whereas in long fights pyros will regularly need to apply judicious amounts of rapid shots.

 

as for being FOTM, I was an early access powertech, so I'll thank you to go get your sniper/gunslinger ready. they're the current FOTM, and they'll be called OP within the next two months, have fun.

[SneiK]

As soon as I got anywhere near it, one of the powertechs got his thermal detonator on me and the other was running over, so I popped every single defensive cooldown I had - which are off the GCD, btw - and proceded to fire a single instant cast shot before literally dying.

 

That's right, 2 powertechs were able to nuke my 16k HP - not all the way there, by any means, but not terrible by any stretch of the imagination, either - in a basically a single GCD.

 

So yes, pay no attention to powertechs. They're completely fine and in no need whatsoever of a nerf.

 

The ignorance and complete lack of knowledge is strong on this one.

 

First: TD has 4 sec timer before explosion. So even if you would've been killed by TD, which you don't in any freaking circumstances. It would be closer to 3 GDC, not 1.

 

Second, you lack the understanding that there are more classes than your own, and the particular enemy you are facing.

 

Let me give you an example:

 

TD->IM->Rail->FB->Rail->RP. <- This is the absolute most burst a PT Pyro can do in the shortest amount of time possible in a plausible starting position (starting 10-30m, usually tho, you wouldn't RP so early as you'd want to wait for the next proc to rail, cuz this ain't enough to kill a full hp enemy 1v1 as I'm about to show you, but this is the most burst, which means most dmg in the shortest time (7.5 secs, RP dmg finishes before the 6th GCD finishes)).

 

It requires 45% proc, + 10m radius on FB, following a 4m radius on RP (this can be started at <30 radius)

 

Now for the sake of potential dmg, let's just specify a dmg spectrum of none crits-all crits.

 

Noncirt/crit dmg (not exact, just to give you an idea, some armor applies to rail, which is ranged)

 

TD: 2000/3500 (kinetic, armor applies)

IM: Not really doing much dmg in the >4GDC it's running on this timeframe (5GCD, 7.5 seconds)

......500 for hit + 200 for the dot = 700

Rail: 1600/3800 (some armor applies)

FB: 1100/1900

RP 1500/2500 (kinetic, armor applies)

 

So, let's add up:

 

Min DMG: 8500 DMG

Max DMG: 16 200 DMG

 

So, around 16 200 DMG in 7.5 seconds is the maximum output of a pyro (all crits/procs)...Propability: 0.45x0.5^2x0.4^3=0.0072,

or with Explosive Fuel: 0.45x0.70^2x0.65^3=0.06

 

Which is <1%, or 6% with explosive fuel cd.

 

So, less than 17k dmg in 9 seconds, that happens less than every one hundredth rotation, and it's still not even enough to kill an equally geared target (19k+ hp).

 

Oh, but this is not even counting defensive cds (shields, tehc/ranged immunities, consumables).

 

Let's say a Shadon/Assassin uses tech immunity after IM...That means no TD, no IM dot dmg, no rail, no proc...That's right, the shadow/assassin just 'tanked' close to 17k of potetial dmg with one defensive cd, or if the PT is wise enough to change to ranged dmg (unload/rapid shots the only choices), some 14k (PT would get some ranged dmg in, and one tech attack till 7.5 sec timeframe is up).

 

And he still has his shield + combat stealth + consumables...Now, should I come on the forums to cry, because a particular class can play good against me in some situations? No.

 

Now for those saying that 'noway PT's hit twice that hard', well, not really. But if you let 'em roam free for a long time, that dmg adds up as they can keep it up very well, and that's your/your teams fault then.

 

So YES, I claim Powertechs are fine.

 

EDIT: FB applies a dot as well, which is another 800 or so dmg to both min + max.

Edited July 20, 2012 by SneiK

[Letallis]

A 2 vs 1 is usually a death unless one of the two screw up royally.

 

I've 2 v 1 before successfully.... on my Powertech..

[KBSIP]

I've 2 v 1 before successfully.... on my Powertech..

 

I've 2v1'ed on my guardian and my sniper as well as powertech. its always been against undergeared or partially AFK individuals, and practically never against 2 dps specs, NEVER against 2 burst DPS.

[SwordofSodan]

The ignorance and complete lack of knowledge is strong on this one.

 

First: TD has 4 sec timer before explosion. So even if you would've been killed by TD, which you don't in any freaking circumstances. It would be closer to 3 GDC, not 1.

 

Second, you lack the understanding that there are more classes than your own, and the particular enemy you are facing.

 

Let me give you an example:

 

TD->IM->Rail->FB->Rail->RP. <- This is the absolute most burst a PT Pyro can do in the shortest amount of time possible in a plausible starting position (starting 10-30m, usually tho, you wouldn't RP so early as you'd want to wait for the next proc to rail, cuz this ain't enough to kill a full hp enemy 1v1 as I'm about to show you, but this is the most burst, which means most dmg in the shortest time (7.5 secs, RP dmg finishes before the 6th GCD finishes)).

 

It requires 45% proc, + 10m radius on FB, following a 4m radius on RP (this can be started at <30 radius)

 

Now for the sake of potential dmg, let's just specify a dmg spectrum of none crits-all crits.

 

Noncirt/crit dmg (not exact, just to give you an idea, some armor applies to rail, which is ranged)

 

TD: 2000/3500 (kinetic, armor applies)

IM: Not really doing much dmg in the >4GDC it's running on this timeframe (5GCD, 7.5 seconds)

......500 for hit + 200 for the dot = 700

Rail: 1600/3800 (some armor applies)

FB: 1100/1900

RP 1500/2500 (kinetic, armor applies)

 

So, let's add up:

 

Min DMG: 8500 DMG

Max DMG: 16 200 DMG

 

So, around 16 200 DMG in 7.5 seconds is the maximum output of a pyro (all crits/procs)...Propability: 0.45x0.5^2x0.4^3=0.0072,

or with Explosive Fuel: 0.45x0.70^2x0.65^3=0.06

 

Which is <1%, or 6% with explosive fuel cd.

 

So, less than 17k dmg in 9 seconds, that happens less than every one hundredth rotation, and it's still not even enough to kill an equally geared target (19k+ hp).

 

Oh, but this is not even counting defensive cds (shields, tehc/ranged immunities, consumables).

 

Let's say a Shadon/Assassin uses tech immunity after IM...That means no TD, no IM dot dmg, no rail, no proc...That's right, the shadow/assassin just 'tanked' close to 17k of potetial dmg with one defensive cd, or if the PT is wise enough to change to ranged dmg (unload/rapid shots the only choices), some 14k (PT would get some ranged dmg in, and one tech attack till 7.5 sec timeframe is up).

 

And he still has his shield + combat stealth + consumables...Now, should I come on the forums to cry, because a particular class can play good against me in some situations? No.

 

Now for those saying that 'noway PT's hit twice that hard', well, not really. But if you let 'em roam free for a long time, that dmg adds up as they can keep it up very well, and that's your/your teams fault then.

 

So YES, I claim Powertechs are fine.

/thread