Vigilance DPS Unite!

[Aienir]

So I seem to be one of the few who say DPS Vigilance guardians are not just fine, but amazing. I wanna make a thread where anyone who is Vigilance Spec can find a good compendium for specs/build/stats that they can pull from. I've cleared all current content in this build (Nightmare Eternity Vault, Nightmare Karaggas Palace, Hard Mode Denova) including Nightmare Piglrim.

 

I am full campaign/BIS for how I see it as stat necessity. Only thing I'm missing is the orange bracers with an augment with the non-type bound (i.e feet/hands/chest) armorings for a bit more strength.

 

If i can ever find a combat log and upload it, I'll do it, but i've hit 1900 DPS on the MOX DPS meter, I've hit 2k as well, but that is utterly and completely rare burst. And by burst i mean I crit on every ability for a whole rotation.

 

This is my spec, gear and stats right here (accuracy and surge is wrong for some reason):

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/79df384a-e3b1-462e-b216-c2735fe2d7c3

 

The spec is useful for both PVP and PVE, while it misses some of the talents I would LOVE for PVP like gather strength, I feel like I still have the utility I need for PVP.

 

Proof: http://i.imgur.com/QPZeo.jpg

520k damage in a WZ. Not shabby in a PVE/PVP hybrid so to speak.

 

This is all buffed but unstimmed. For those who do not want to open the link (dunno why) here is the stats:

Strength: 1913

Damage: 900 - 1062

Bonus Damage (Melee): - 576

Accuracy - 100.89%

Crit - 35.8

Surge - 75.63

Health 20403

 

Buffed and Stimmed:

Strength: 2041

Damage: 945- 1107

Bonus Damage (Melee): - 612

Accuracy - 100.89%

Crit - 36.4

Surge - 75.63

Health 20403

 

So as far as my stat priorities are, is that i tried to hit the soft caps for crit and surge (ratings, which thankfully translate to the percentages above) and from there went straight power. From talking to a few members who are more experienced than I am at this, we have come to the conclusion that around 1960 is the max strength that I should be aiming for before i start stacking power. The reason we came to that conclusion is that at these levels of strength you should be at the soft/hard cap for crit rating (not percentage, as rating is the important one) and power gives more straight up bonus damage than strength.

 

The rate of return for bonus damage is as follows:

Power = .23 bonus damage per 1 point of power

Strength = .2 bonus damage per 1 point of Strength + .02 crit

 

Once i hit the 1960 mark (stimmed) i started stacking power, and once i got all the 61 mods i altogether ditched most of my strength augments and went for straight power. I even abandoned the high main stat mods for the high secondary

stat mods so i could get more power since i realized i had more than enough strength.

 

As far as rotation I use this following rotation explained in this video:

*** I do not take credit for this video, I did not make it***

 

This video breaks down the rotation into 4 very simple very easy parts and I use it cause it really does generate very high DPS, only change I make is that I move the Blade Storm from the filler rotation to the bleed rotation as it adds a 3rd dot.

 

Post your stats and build below! Lets get some theory crafting going!

Edited July 17, 2012 by Aienir

[BigRedRocket]

vid is for jugg and im to lazy to cross it over to guardian:(

[Aienir]

vid is for jugg and im to lazy to cross it over to guardian:(

 

These are the overall important abilities:

Ravage = Master Strike

Impale = Overhead Slash

Shatter = Plasma Brand

Force Scream = Blade Storm

Vicious Throw = Dispatch

Sundering Assault = Sundering Strike

Smash = Force Sweep

Assault = Strike

 

 

So here is the rotation translated:

 

Rotation 1 (Burn Rotation)

Sundering Strike

Plasma Brand

Overhead Slash

 

Rotation 2 (Master Strike Rotation)

Sundering Strike

Master Strike

 

Rotation 3 (Filler Rotation)

Sundering Strike

Strike

Blade Storm

 

Rotation 4 (Focus Generation)

Sundering Strike

Saber Throw

Force Sweep

 

 

 

The way its supposed to be used is you start with 2 -> 1 -> 2 (if MS procced) -> 1 (if MS procced) -> 3 -> 4 and start all over again.

 

As i said before, I moved BS to the burn rotation, but thats just my preference.

[Richoshist]

Nice thread/vid.

[Xtrema]

Nice thread, too bad most the Veng haters/doubters will just ignore a post like this. Oh well, their loss . 1900+ DPS is pretty crazy, I'm in a mix of rakata/BH and usually peak at 1800s if I go on a streak of crits, but it's pretty rare. Normally I level out anywhere from 1300-1400 - actually just yesterday I hit 1840DPS at Infernal Council, I must've crit 90% of my moves lol.

 

If you don't mind, I'm still trying to better optimize my gear, would you mind explaining the recent craze for everyone to hit 30% crit unbuffed? I've been optimizing based off of builds posted by ppl like Jubei (who also hit 1900+DPS) but their crit is at 30% buffed with surge at 77/78%. Now I see most people aiming for 35-36% crit buffed and only 74/75 surge, just wondering what changed that I apparently missed? Here's my current numbers:

 

Buffed, no stim:

Strength: 1998

Endurance: 1845

 

Damage: 916 - 1067

Bonus: 614

Power: 805

Accuracy: 216 (101.01%)

Crit: 146 (29.47%)

Surge: 342 (77.36%)

 

With stim my crit hits exactly 30%. If I should raise that crit I think I can do it fairly easily, after messing with askmrrobot a bit and moving some mods/enh around, I can raise my crit to 297 (34.31%) buffed and unstimmed with what I have on hand, but I would lose 100 power and roughly 15 strength+endurance. Would this be a change you recommend?

 

EDIT:

Forgot to include this, with Dreadnaught doesn't the gap between Strength and Power close to a very very tiny amount? In that case, with crit being so important now wouldn't you want to go with Strength?

Edited July 17, 2012 by Xtrema

[Aienir]

Nice thread, too bad most the Veng haters/doubters will just ignore a post like this. Oh well, their loss . 1900+ DPS is pretty crazy, I'm in a mix of rakata/BH and usually peak at 1800s if I go on a streak of crits, but it's pretty rare. Normally I level out anywhere from 1300-1400 - actually just yesterday I hit 1840DPS at Infernal Council, I must've crit 90% of my moves lol.

 

If you don't mind, I'm still trying to better optimize my gear, would you mind explaining the recent craze for everyone to hit 30% crit unbuffed? I've been optimizing based off of builds posted by ppl like Jubei (who also hit 1900+DPS) but their crit is at 30% buffed with surge at 77/78%. Now I see most people aiming for 35-36% crit buffed and only 74/75 surge, just wondering what changed that I apparently missed? Here's my current numbers:

 

Buffed, no stim:

Strength: 1998

Endurance: 1845

 

Damage: 916 - 1067

Bonus: 614

Power: 805

Accuracy: 216 (101.01%)

Crit: 146 (29.47%)

Surge: 342 (77.36%)

 

With stim my crit hits exactly 30%. If I should raise that crit I think I can do it fairly easily, after messing with askmrrobot a bit and moving some mods/enh around, I can raise my crit to 297 (34.31%) buffed and unstimmed with what I have on hand, but I would lose 100 power and roughly 15 strength+endurance. Would this be a change you recommend?

 

EDIT:

Forgot to include this, with Dreadnaught doesn't the gap between Strength and Power close to a very very tiny amount? In that case, with crit being so important now wouldn't you want to go with Strength?

 

The most important thing isnt really the percentage its the rating. Your class (jugg/guardian, gunslinger, sage) have different caps as far as crit rating goes. I believe that the crit rating for guardian is around the amount that gives you 30% crit rating. it seems universally held that surge has a DR at 30% (not including the 50% base - so 80% would be your max as a cap)

 

 

Personally, im already AT a point where i need no more crit and can focus on power only, so strength would be useless for me. For you, you are already at a point where you have high enough strength, but a lot of power, and less crit than me, but look at our stats, your min/max damage is only 16/5 more than mine, while your bonus damage is also about 38 more than mine. Not a huge difference, but it could be because i have more crit stacked than you. My power is around 704 and im only losing a little bit in damage, but gaining 5% crit.

 

the loss of 100 power sounds huge though, so i wouldnt say thats a good idea too much, we thrive on power. you could maybe lose a bit of accuracy to get some more crit though.

 

**Edit - I also noticed you have higher strength than me, are you using the high strength/low secondary stats mods? cause you can switch them out for mods with high secondary stat to get more power/crit that way

Edited July 17, 2012 by Aienir

[Xtrema]

The most important thing isnt really the percentage its the rating. Your class (jugg/guardian, gunslinger, sage) have different caps as far as crit rating goes. I believe that the crit rating for guardian is around the amount that gives you 30% crit rating. it seems universally held that surge has a DR at 30% (not including the 50% base - so 80% would be your max as a cap)

 

 

Personally, im already AT a point where i need no more crit and can focus on power only, so strength would be useless for me. For you, you are already at a point where you have high enough strength, but a lot of power, and less crit than me, but look at our stats, your min/max damage is only 16/5 more than mine, while your bonus damage is also about 38 more than mine. Not a huge difference, but it could be because i have more crit stacked than you. My power is around 704 and im only losing a little bit in damage, but gaining 5% crit.

 

the loss of 100 power sounds huge though, so i wouldnt say thats a good idea too much, we thrive on power. you could maybe lose a bit of accuracy to get some more crit though.

 

**Edit - I also noticed you have higher strength than me, are you using the high strength/low secondary stats mods? cause you can switch them out for mods with high secondary stat to get more power/crit that way

 

If I lose 100 power I will be roughly at 700 like you are now, I just wouldn't have nearly as much crit. I could always hold back on a few changes and stick with 33% crit and only lose 70ish power. I'm just really not sure what the optimal setup is, I remember Dracosz has like 960 power but only 28% crit, or more people lately with builds similar to you with 700ish power and 36/37 crit. Do you feel you're seeing crits more often at 36.4%?

 

I may have a few mods/enh with lower secondary stats, I'll be replacing those as I farm up BH comms or as they drop from raids. But those are just waiting for upgrades, I just want to make sure I'm at least using the right kinds of mods/enh, if there is such a thing

 

EDIT:

Rly appreciate the advice/tips. If it helps here's my current setup - definitely a work in progress so don't expect much. I know a lot needs to be upgraded

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/5c4ae02f-f8bb-44ec-be3a-07ce327d050d

 

In terms of reaching numbers similar to yours, I was thinking of replacing the Deft 25a with a Potent, then replacing an Adept with Battle, Proficient for Acute, and since I don't have any of the BH MK2/3's that give tons of crit, replace 1-2 power augs with crit - essentially all of that is power for crit, accuracy/surge stays constant. Let me know what you think.

Edit again - this would be how it'd look if I made the changes mentioned:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/88a58b2a-5477-468f-92f8-be0225ae4f8b

Edited July 17, 2012 by Xtrema

[Aienir]

If I lose 100 power I will be roughly at 700 like you are now, I just wouldn't have nearly as much crit. I could always hold back on a few changes and stick with 33% crit and only lose 70ish power. I'm just really not sure what the optimal setup is, I remember Dracosz has like 960 power but only 28% crit, or more people lately with builds similar to you with 700ish power and 36/37 crit. Do you feel you're seeing crits more often at 36.4%?

 

I may have a few mods/enh with lower secondary stats, I'll be replacing those as I farm up BH comms or as they drop from raids. But those are just waiting for upgrades, I just want to make sure I'm at least using the right kinds of mods/enh, if there is such a thing

 

EDIT:

Rly appreciate the advice/tips. If it helps here's my current setup - definitely a work in progress so don't expect much. I know a lot needs to be upgraded

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/5c4ae02f-f8bb-44ec-be3a-07ce327d050d

 

In terms of reaching numbers similar to yours, I was thinking of replacing the Deft 25a with a Potent, then replacing an Adept with Battle, Proficient for Acute, and since I don't have any of the BH MK2/3's that give tons of crit, replace 1-2 power augs with crit - essentially all of that is power for crit, accuracy/surge stays constant. Let me know what you think.

Edit again - this would be how it'd look if I made the changes mentioned:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/88a58b2a-5477-468f-92f8-be0225ae4f8b

 

 

yea Im not sure at all how theyre getting so much power, but sitting at the same level of damage/bonus damage as i am. I mean Ive seen Jubei's page on askmrrobot, and hes sitting at the same damage/bonus i am, with 5% less crit and 2-3ish% more surge. I dont notice a huge difference if i add a bit more surge. I still crit aroudn the same area.

 

As far as how often im critting, its a lot. I crit so much that it just makes me smile. And yes, ive noticed the difference between 30% and 35%, and to me it seems large.

[VoidJustice]

500k in a match.. Im so doing something wrong... /facepalm Edited July 18, 2012 by VoidJustice

[rekoil]

500k in a match.. Im so doing something wrong... /facepalm

 

You need to also get 900k+ worth of healing on your team aswell. Even an average geared Vig like myself could probably hit 400k with that kind of support.

 

Taking nothing away from your set up and rotation OP, but pvp is very situational. Good read though thanks.

 

 

Also looking at the other teams healing stats, it looks like a total stalemate with lots of damage being done but no "real" damage being done. That match must have been hard work!

Edited July 18, 2012 by rekoil
additional comment

[LukeSaberRattler]

500k in a match.. Im so doing something wrong... /facepalm

 

Your not likely to get this unless you are in a full length match with a ton of healers keeping you up in a mad brawl. These are numbers I only see in a voidstar match if the teams stale mat each other at the first door. Funny story I hit 200k damage on voidstar the other day with my level 12 guardian. That is with only 5 abilities and I had better DPS that anyone else on my team. I had a healer that focused on me and I didn't die once. So basically healers are your friends!!

Edited July 18, 2012 by LukeSaberRattler

[Aienir]

yea, its not easy hitting those kind of numbers, and i had a healer on me as well. That specific warzone was a bit of a stalemate but yea in general hitting 400-500k is hard. I can do it in other matches as well but its no where near easy. PVP damage for Vigilance is very very situational.

[VoidJustice]

Im in mostly BM (WH: saber, ear, implant, relics)

 

best I manage is like 300k (I get real excited about it too) but ... I unfortunately... only can PUG... don't have a rated team... nor do I think I have the time to commit to get into one... if they even take Vigilance Guardians... which... Im not sure they do.

Edited July 18, 2012 by VoidJustice

[Andrew_Past]

Im in mostly BM (WH: saber, ear, implant, relics)

 

best I manage is like 300k (I get real excited about it too) but ... I unfortunately... only can PUG... don't have a rated team... nor do I think I have the time to commit to get into one... if they even take Vigilance Guardians... which... Im not sure they do.

 

A good Vigilance Guardian can play a great target caller in rateds due to un-CCable MS into OHS->BS. This is in addition to great mobility, good survivability, taunts, and great control tools. In fact, my rated group will usually wait to run until I get on.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Andrew_Past

[Aienir]

A good Vigilance Guardian can play a great target caller in rateds due to un-CCable MS into OHS->BS. This is in addition to great mobility, good survivability, taunts, and great control tools. In fact, my rated group will usually wait to run until I get on.

 

Wish I had a rated group that wanted DPS Guardians, all my rated group wants is sentinals and Assault Vanguards -_-

 

 

So, I'm doing a bit more research into what relic would be BiS for us, and I think that the WH relic with the 131 power on it would be better than a click relic like the Campaign Relic of Boundless Ages. With a power augment that would give us a straight 149 extra power at all times, where as the click relic will only give you power every 2 minutes. Reason why I would think it would be better is because when on lets say Kephess, I can only use that relic maybe 2 times the entire fight. The encounter lasts about 5-6 minutes and I wouldnt use that relic on anyone save the Baradium Bombers you have to down quickly and out of 3 of them, you'd be able to use it on one of them due to cooldown. I think that overall, for the length of the fight, you might benefit more from another 149 power more.

 

 

Thoughts?

[Andrew_Past]

Wish I had a rated group that wanted DPS Guardians, all my rated group wants is sentinals and Assault Vanguards -_-

 

 

So, I'm doing a bit more research into what relic would be BiS for us, and I think that the WH relic with the 131 power on it would be better than a click relic like the Campaign Relic of Boundless Ages. With a power augment that would give us a straight 149 extra power at all times, where as the click relic will only give you power every 2 minutes. Reason why I would think it would be better is because when on lets say Kephess, I can only use that relic maybe 2 times the entire fight. The encounter lasts about 5-6 minutes and I wouldnt use that relic on anyone save the Baradium Bombers you have to down quickly and out of 3 of them, you'd be able to use it on one of them due to cooldown. I think that overall, for the length of the fight, you might benefit more from another 149 power more.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

For PVE and PVP, that extra on all the time is very nice to have. Use the WH relic.

[Criton_Volun]

http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/jedi_knight/guardian/#::fdf5ecf7ef15ef3efe2fefece4ce8:

 

Thats my spec I have full crafted war hero gear with all epic power and str mods in the augment slots .

 

If I could find a way to post a screen shot of one of the better matches I have had as vigilance spec I would .

 

But the stats were these with a might stim and buffed by fellow pug members .

 

overall damage 432206

dps 517

bigest hit 6351

kills 43

healing 21782

 

highest healing done by a team member was 358791 .

 

my rotation normally is generaly

 

saber throw force leap sunder strike OH slash blade storm plasma brand.

 

I caint rember my stats off hand but with force might being the only buff and no stims i think i run around 28 % crit 500 power and around 1500 str I belive.

 

Just for some fellow vigilance speced players any one telling you that vigilance is not any good at pvp or pve really just does not know what they are talking about . We can be a foce to be reckoned with .

[RyderQuanTy]

http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/jedi_knight/guardian/#::fdf5ecf7ef15ef3efe2fefece4ce8:

 

Thats my spec I have full crafted war hero gear with all epic power and str mods in the augment slots .

 

If I could find a way to post a screen shot of one of the better matches I have had as vigilance spec I would .

 

But the stats were these with a might stim and buffed by fellow pug members .

 

overall damage 432206

dps 517

bigest hit 6351

kills 43

healing 21782

 

highest healing done by a team member was 358791 .

 

my rotation normally is generaly

 

saber throw force leap sunder strike OH slash blade storm plasma brand.

 

I caint rember my stats off hand but with force might being the only buff and no stims i think i run around 28 % crit 500 power and around 1500 str I belive.

 

Just for some fellow vigilance speced players any one telling you that vigilance is not any good at pvp or pve really just does not know what they are talking about . We can be a foce to be reckoned with .

 

 

I was once with u i can alway top the medals charr in normal wz but raited is a difftent story. Heeis why. In groups of desighned teams other classes have a compounding rate of return on their abilities.

 

ex 1 Snipers in packs can alternate aoe, knock back roots 2 guardians can only alternat running into the aoe and knock backs one rooted for 5 sec the othe burs down and move to the other

 

ex 2 2 pt can alternate aoe stun and aoe attacks an ion puls (i may hve the names wrong buy u get the idea) set up combo HIB which has hit me for over 4K and available every 6 sec btw one guardian down now 2 one one

 

2 shadows stun one assinate the other 2 one 1

 

in premade orginized groups vigilance has nothing to offer if you wont pub nonranked pvp vig is just fine but it can not compete at high levels. To be on the level of the PT our MS would need to be and aoe and we would need an auto crit and 90% armor penetration on OHS then we would be on par with the PT

[Zuckazz]

You need to also get 900k+ worth of healing on your team aswell. Even an average geared Vig like myself could probably hit 400k with that kind of support.

 

Taking nothing away from your set up and rotation OP, but pvp is very situational. Good read though thanks.

 

 

Also looking at the other teams healing stats, it looks like a total stalemate with lots of damage being done but no "real" damage being done. That match must have been hard work!

 

This ^^

Problem is Bioware does not even understand this themselfs...so they make changes based on skewed and situational numbers like this.

[Dalfurend]

I just started min/maxing, and I hit 1450 on the target dummy fully buffed and stimmed.

 

I would love to see how other people are fairing.

 

I can post my stats later if anyone was interested.

[Xtrema]

I just started min/maxing, and I hit 1450 on the target dummy fully buffed and stimmed.

 

I would love to see how other people are fairing.

 

I can post my stats later if anyone was interested.

 

I had a crazy streak of crits the other day where my DPS spiked to 2000-2200 on the dummy, it went something like MS (3.1, 2.9, 6.1), Sundering Strike (1.9), Plasma Brand (2.9), Overhead Slash (4.1), another MS that ended in 5.8k. On average I think I'm usually like you, anywhere from 1400-1600, but pretty awesome to know that we can spike that high

 

EDIT: Just realized I'm on guardian forums, updated respective move names

Edited July 31, 2012 by Xtrema

[krystianswtor]

Hi. I have a question , do I have enough Str already and should start stacking power? Or maybe critical? Most of my augments are for Strenght/Endurance

 

 

>Without buffs< >With Stimpack,<

 

Strength: 2065

Power: 743

Damage: 915 - 1066

Bonus Damage (Melee): - 613,1

Accuracy - 104.05%

Crit - 23.5% ( reaches about 30 with buffs )

Surge - 70,2% ( reaches 75 with buffs )

Health 19200

 

I do minimum 1.4k dps on ops training dummy

[Dalfurend]

Hi. I have a question , do I have enough Str already and should start stacking power? Or maybe critical? Most of my augments are for Strenght/Endurance

 

 

>Without buffs< >With Stimpack,<

 

Strength: 2065

Power: 743

Damage: 915 - 1066

Bonus Damage (Melee): - 613,1

Accuracy - 104.05%

Crit - 23.5% ( reaches about 30 with buffs )

Surge - 70,2% ( reaches 75 with buffs )

Health 19200

 

I do minimum 1.4k dps on ops training dummy

 

From my understanding, the dr on crit from strength starts at 1650, so you will get more out of power now.

 

What I would take a look at is your surge. I dunno any stims/buffs that would increase it by 5%. Definitely want to hit at least 75%.

 

Also, (I am still trying to understand a bit myself) I think you could definitely lose that 4% in accuracy, and add a bit to any of the other secondary stats. Your crit and surge right now could be a little higher imo.

[Dalfurend]

Here are my stats (unbuffed), if anyone has any suggestions:

 

Strength - 1925

Power - 790

Bonus Dmg - 566.7

Dmg - 891 - 1053

Accuracy - 100.35%

Melee Crit - 28%

Force Crit - 34.91%

Surge - 77.36%

[Alec_Fortescue]

Heyo, i'll post all i have here, too

 

Lemme get some time and I'll get my parse from the dummy and wz damage table and my stats.

 

they're better than the OPs but my rotation must be bad...

 

edit:

 

My buffed stats:

Primary: 993-1155

Bonus: 669.1

Acc: 100.35%

Crit: 35.14%

Surge: 77.36%

 

I decided to go for Stregth > power because of the 11% str bonus from the buff and talents. I thought that the more strength I have - the better.

 

Will do pvp later.

 

my dps on a dummy (rage problems due to lack of set bonus and no received damage. Also there is no way to use the Dispatch there):

http://www.torparse.com/a/7184 <new gear>

http://www.torparse.com/a/740

 

Screenies from PvP

http://postimage.org/image/ojserx1ov/ (no pocket healer, heals not so epic anyway)

http://postimage.org/image/tlxc406c9/ (300k in Denova, nice... No personal healer again)

 

http://postimage.org/image/yy8y75tcx/ (600k+ in no pre-made parties with randomers. that sorcerer was damn impressive. Had healing in the party but not dedicated pocket healer)

 

I could use some help with rotation, I think.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Alec_Fortescue