I spend every warzone CCed and focused

[Skolops]

I see plenty of gunslingers who somehow manage to sit back and get ignored the entire game while they're beating up on everyone freely. I know that this is probably more the exception than the rule, and I certainly manage to be plenty successful. I do best in DF, largely because I can run around and continue to drop dots on everyone more freely while I have 3 people chasing me. I'd really like to spend some time acquiring more experience in SS, or in a SS/DF hybrid which I want to experiment with, but unfortunately I literally can't sit in cover for more than 5 seconds before 2 people are on me.

 

I'd like advice and thoughts on how you skilled GS manage to avoid drawing too much attention so that you can spend at least *some* of the time actually attacking instead of running! Any thoughts?

[Bartes]

OK. your first problem is that in DF spec you have the best mobility of all 3 trees and what's why you are subject to more CC. First of all try to stay a bit behind firstline attackers aka "nomal" melee classes and then pick your target while your opponents are busy with someone else. GS will never do well if they attack first.. you know... Dirty Fighting.

 

AS GS/SS spec you must realise and feel the range you have. No point in shooting someone next to you unless it is needed. Target people who do not move towards you or are occupied with someone else. Make use of you awesome AoE (XS Flyby) to interrupt ppl or help teammates in dense fights.

 

Last but not least, sitting for more than 5 secs in one place as SS spec GS is wrong. Despite what many people still think SS spec is not about being a turret. We actually can move a lot and do a lot of damage. You just need to get the feeling of proper rotations (depending on a target and available energy) and energy management. Again it is up to you to not draw much attention. You must pick proper targets. First you should pick targets who you can destroy in 1 rotation or they are occupied with someone else, last someone who may charge at you coz he is not doing anything else atm.

 

Hope it helped a bit.

[Nyaara]

I see plenty of gunslingers who somehow manage to sit back and get ignored the entire game while they're beating up on everyone freely.

 

When that happens it means the enemy team is bad. You can spot a Sniper/GS in cover since kilometers away and it means YOU must kill him cos hits hard if not attacked and is very squizy under a focus attack. A good GS (SS or Sab) against a good enemy team will change position often to avoid the focus. If moving is not needed means the enemy has absolutely no idea how a GS works.

[Skolops]

Thanks for the thoughts. When I do play SS, I am not a turret that's for sure - I am pretty good at moving about, taking cover, getting up, cover again, etc. - and in DF< I certainly don't sit in cover for very long.

 

Another item that I'm curious about is that I find my numbers to come out farr better in DF than SS. Only level 47, but that's darn near close enough to appreciate the full specs. I get between 250k - 350k in DF, which is pretty darn good for <50 wzs, and top the chart the vast majority of the time. I know what I should be doing in SS, but I just don't produce nearly the same results, even in games where I am free to shoot at will the entire game. I average around 150k in SS, with 200k if I'm lucky. I do, however, see SS gunslingers do very well and I wonder what might be holding me back.

 

Any key SS points that others have found to be particularly important or easily missed which might make the difference?

[Bartes]

Numbers mean nothing in lvl 50 WZs and 50s =/= below 50s.

 

SS spec is about insane burst and killing not about endless DoTs. If I do 20k dmg on a healed target in few secs it means it dies, if DoTs make 50k damage it may still survive if healed, right?

 

Again, you will notice massive difference in lvl 50 WZs. I can safely assume you will start to suck for quite a while till you get proper grar and change your playstyle dramatically. Still it happens a lot for me to do way over 450k damage in WZ but I stopped looking at this and pay more attention to kill/death ratio.

[Skolops]

Numbers mean nothing in lvl 50 WZs and 50s =/= below 50s.

 

SS spec is about insane burst and killing not about endless DoTs. If I do 20k dmg on a healed target in few secs it means it dies, if DoTs make 50k damage it may still survive if healed, right?

 

Again, you will notice massive difference in lvl 50 WZs. I can safely assume you will start to suck for quite a while till you get proper grar and change your playstyle dramatically. Still it happens a lot for me to do way over 450k damage in WZ but I stopped looking at this and pay more attention to kill/death ratio.

 

I have more than enough experience in level 50 warzones to know what its like, and I'm probably the most objective focused player there is, so I can live with poor numbers, good numbers, or whatever the case may be. Still, I rolled this as my first pure DPS class out of 5 or 6 for the sake of doing DPS, and so I have to rely on the numbers somewhat as I attempt to evaluate things, which is what I'm really trying to do.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Skolops

[KiranK]

Welcome to PvP. Try playing an infiltration spec shadow. You'll spend every warzone either CCed or in the spawn point. Stun, squish, respawn. That is the Bioware way.

[Skolops]

Welcome to PvP. Try playing an infiltration spec shadow. You'll spend every warzone either CCed or in the spawn point. Stun, squish, respawn. That is the Bioware way.

 

I've played one for a long time and knew how to avoid this. It's certainly a HECK of a lot more doable with a Shadow than a gunslinger. Resilience is the best cooldown in the game.

[KiranK]

I've played one for a long time and knew how to avoid this. It's certainly a HECK of a lot more doable with a Shadow than a gunslinger. Resilience is the best cooldown in the game.

 

Uh, no. Resilience doesn't even compare to Guarded by the Force.

[Skolops]

Uh, no. Resilience doesn't even compare to Guarded by the Force.

 

Only one more post on this subject so as to not derail things:

 

- Guarded by the force is hard countered by every CC there is. Resilience makes you immune to CC.

 

- Guarded by the force is basically hard countered by every single DOT in the game, because by the time your low enough to use it, a player can drop a single DOT on you, go do something else, and you'll die the instant GbtF wears off. Resilience protects you from DOTs and removes several of them.

 

- GbtF allows you to stay alive for a few seconds when you're at the end of your life and then inevitably die immediately after, whereas resilience allows you to miss your opponent's hardest hitting item and stay at full or nearly full health after their rotation is blown and they're left with fillers.

 

- With CC immunity, Resilience lets you score in huttball, stop caps when the entire enemy team has a wall set up to AoE stun your entire team.

 

I have to run I'm about to be late for something important, but I could list off a bunch more. Suffice it to say, GbtF is a somewhat tricky to use, last ditch defensive tool which helps you survive for a few seconds longer. Resilience is an amazing all-around useful tool which can be used defensively, offensively, in and out of CC, in an almost limitless array of ways.

[Ulltramagns]

Numbers mean nothing in lvl 50 WZs and 50s =/= below 50s.

 

SS spec is about insane burst and killing not about endless DoTs. If I do 20k dmg on a healed target in few secs it means it dies, if DoTs make 50k damage it may still survive if healed, right?

 

Again, you will notice massive difference in lvl 50 WZs. I can safely assume you will start to suck for quite a while till you get proper grar and change your playstyle dramatically. Still it happens a lot for me to do way over 450k damage in WZ but I stopped looking at this and pay more attention to kill/death ratio.

 

This made me lol hard. Someone give this man a team death match.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Ulltramagns

[MimicUnleashed]

I get issues in PvP where I die. Pre-50, but when I hit cover, go to hit pulse detonator... I come out of stealth. Ok, it's a bug, right? Cover again. Hit it. Out of cover. Not stuns, not snares, just cannot do anything. I've been mauled to death by this and I never figured out what the heck causes it.

[kamikrazy]

Arguably, the most important aspect after a SS/MM's rotation is their positioning. Unfortunately, gunslingers don't get stealth like their scoundrel/operative counterparts so we have to rely more on the environment to cover our tracks (columns, pillars, etc.)

 

As a ranged class, I know how frustrating it is when someone is eating a face full of my blaster shots only to run behind a pillar to heal themselves as I'm forced to pluck myself up out of cover and hunt them down. However, we can employ similar tactics to ensure we always have the upper hand. For example, being up on the rafters in huttball is advantageous because it requires people to navigate to you (unless they're jugg/guardians, the only class that can leap to a smug/agent in cover).

Other good spots to position yourself are right next to walls or pillars where you will be in the peripheries of the enemies you're attacking. If melee starts getting too close, you can always drop the XS flyby on yourself which should temporarily keep them at bay.

The only downside to this strategy is that it makes it easier for the enemy you're targeting to LoS away from you.

 

My biggest gripe now is that natural cover is broken, specifically when it comes to hunker down (cc immunity). It simply NEVER works. Also the fact that it can take multiple tries to finally roll into cover.

[Ulltramagns]

Arguably, the most important aspect after a SS/MM's rotation is their positioning. Unfortunately, gunslingers don't get stealth like their scoundrel/operative counterparts so we have to rely more on the environment to cover our tracks (columns, pillars, etc.)

 

As a ranged class, I know how frustrating it is when someone is eating a face full of my blaster shots only to run behind a pillar to heal themselves as I'm forced to pluck myself up out of cover and hunt them down. However, we can employ similar tactics to ensure we always have the upper hand. For example, being up on the rafters in huttball is advantageous because it requires people to navigate to you (unless they're jugg/guardians, the only class that can leap to a smug/agent in cover).

Other good spots to position yourself are right next to walls or pillars where you will be in the peripheries of the enemies you're attacking. If melee starts getting too close, you can always drop the XS flyby on yourself which should temporarily keep them at bay.

The only downside to this strategy is that it makes it easier for the enemy you're targeting to LoS away from you.

 

My biggest gripe now is that natural cover is broken, specifically when it comes to hunker down (cc immunity). It simply NEVER works. Also the fact that it can take multiple tries to finally roll into cover.

 

Keybind crouch and just position yourself for cover, also last time I checked juggs/gaurds CANNOT leap to you while you are in cover.

[kamikrazy]

Keybind crouch and just position yourself for cover, also last time I checked juggs/gaurds CANNOT leap to you while you are in cover.

 

That's what I have done with the keybind, but you don't get the benefits of natural cover when you put your portable cover down, although I think being using portable cover behind a piece of natural cover will still give you the benefits.

Either way, it ignores the issue of BW needing to fix this problem in the first place.

 

Well check again, because Obliterate (that's the jugg version) is the ONLY ability that can leap to someone in cover. Not sure if that's intentional or not, but it's inconsistent that only one ability works. Trust me, I've learned the hard way that it is possible to be leapt to in cover.

Edited July 17, 2012 by kamikrazy
clarity

[Swampchicken]

Well check again, because Obliterate (that's the jugg version) is the ONLY ability that can leap to someone in cover. Not sure if that's intentional or not, but it's inconsistent that only one ability works. Trust me, I've learned the hard way that it is possible to be leapt to in cover.

 

Obliterate is a 10 yard "leap" that costs rage/focus and doesn't build it. The "jump" saves a jugg possibly half a second of running before he's in actual melee range.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Swampchicken

[Skolops]

Yeah obliterate is a 10m leap which isn't a gap closer, really, but is only intended to give rage/focus specced players a melee ranged proc of their smash/force sweep crit, which is the whole point of their tree. The one edge it gives them is that they can use it to leap up to you from lower ground, like in huttball. Be aware that if they have this, they canNOT have the unremitting talent which prevents ccs after a leap, so you can just knock them back immediately.

[kamikrazy]

Obliterate is a 10 yard "leap" that costs rage/focus and doesn't build it. The "jump" saves a jugg possibly half a second of running before he's in actual melee range.

 

That's only true if you're on the same level as the jugg. But of course, if it's Huttball...

[Bartes]

This made me lol hard. Someone give this man a team death match.

 

would be nice if we had those but what I meant is that damage means tad in WZ when you play objectives and try to win WZ and not just mindlessly kill people. I look at K/D ratio just to check how miserable I was or how annoying to opposing team. Still I win most of my matches so it doesnt matter anyway, right?

[kamikrazy]

would be nice if we had those but what I meant is that damage means tad in WZ when you play objectives and try to win WZ and not just mindlessly kill people. I look at K/D ratio just to check how miserable I was or how annoying to opposing team. Still I win most of my matches so it doesnt matter anyway, right?

 

I believe in the power of numbers telling a story. Unfortunately, there are many "numbers/data" that aren't factored into that final scorecard. As the thread title says, the amount of time my enemies spend stunned/CC'ed isn't reported, nor are the number of times I stopped someone from capping or how many times I've gotten the huttball from mid amid a sea of enemies.

 

A truly successful, objective-minded player won't be open to scrutiny via that final scorecard. The person that sits on a turret defending a whole game without firing a shot is as important as the player that spends the entire game fighting over the contested node and eventually racks up 350k damage. The numbers don't mean anything without context.

[NoTomorrow]

If you get too much damage focused -> switch to sab with ballistic dampers.

If you get too much CC and AoE focused -> go SS with siege bunker (or whatever its called for republic)

[Skolops]

Truthfully, since finally hitting level 50 its far better, and in a most interesting kind of way.

 

As Dirty Fighting in level 50 warzones, I get attacked a lot, but as a Sharpshooter, I'm largely ignored much of the time.

 

It's really quite intriguing. The level 50 players seem to be drawn to the guy running around but almost don't notice the guy sitting in the corner free casting, while the lowbies tend to all jump right on the guy over on the side but ignore the one running around shooting everyone.

[Renita]

Truthfully, since finally hitting level 50 its far better, and in a most interesting kind of way.

 

As Dirty Fighting in level 50 warzones, I get attacked a lot, but as a Sharpshooter, I'm largely ignored much of the time.

 

It's really quite intriguing. The level 50 players seem to be drawn to the guy running around but almost don't notice the guy sitting in the corner free casting, while the lowbies tend to all jump right on the guy over on the side but ignore the one running around shooting everyone.

 

You don't have to run around as dirty fighting just because you can. The reason you may get more attention is that Leapers will jump at any chance to catch you out of cover.

[Skolops]

You don't have to run around as dirty fighting just because you can. The reason you may get more attention is that Leapers will jump at any chance to catch you out of cover.

 

I find I have to run around at least somewhat to get in range of people. Many of the maps are designed with key cover points just about exactly 30-35 meters away from key target areas, and whereas in SS I can hit enemies from these points, in DF I need to get just close enough that I draw the attention of at least one person and need to then run just to kite him while still DPSing.

[Selvec]

Its because those gunslingers don't do much damage. After the first encounter every PVP my GS becomes the No. 1 target for every bastard on the opposing team. Because after I wipe out 90% of their team in the first wave, they quickly learn to not ignore me. Ever.

 

GS is also one of the single most annoying classes you can encounter in voidstar. Thermal Detonator spammage ftw.