UGLYMRJ Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I agree with the developer. Learn how to play the spec the way it's meant to be played. THIS! Each class is designed to play a role... do not expect to roll tank and do top DPS. THIS is why tanksins got nerfed but marauders and PT's did not. This is NOT about 1v1, do not roll a healer and expect to roll into a node with 2 defenders and take em out. Exaggeration... yes. But I feel like everyone complains because their class does not do it all. Seriously... play your role and help your team. This is not about kills alone... It's like rolling a sniper or gunslinger and being mad because you're not good at scoring on huttball. You should never touch the ball for more than 3 seconds if at all. This game is based on team play with a breakdown of 4v4 or 8v8 within PvE AND PvP. When broken down into 4v4 to make things simple... roll a team of 1 tank, 1 ranged DPS, 1 melee DPS and one healer. Put that up against 4 of any class, stacked. If you are on the balanced team and do not win.... uninstall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqgarvis Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 First, I've played all three trees extensively since Dec (including hybrid variations) and I can tell you that none of the trees are "hard" to play. So, let's not go down this line of argument to say that only the real skilled players can play deception. A lot of the good pvping sins/shadows have tried the spec over the last 7-8 months and the verdict is in. If the spec was truly viable in rated WZ, teams would take one or even stack them, but that's just not the case. With the way that focus fire works in rated WZ, deceptions sins are dead in 2 global cooldowns (same with sorc DPS). Second, let's just look at the utility of the deception vs the other two specs. It's hands down the worst of the three and utility (ie: aoe stuns, taunts, etc...) can be the difference in a rated wz. Sure, you have your burst damage, but I can bring a powertech that has better burst and MORE utility; so, there's not a lot of reasons to bring a Deception spec assassin. Third, and I'm throwing this out there as a personal challenge to anyone on the Fatman Server. If i'm guarding the node/door, there's not a single Deception/Infiltration spec Sin/Shadow who will burst me down and take the node. Call me arrogant or whatever you want, but I've seen it tried many times and it always ends the same way......with me pressing the assassinate keybind. First off I am talking about difficulty relative to the assassin trees only, not a generic static scale. Second, your yet like everyone else, comparing one of the assassin trees directly with another and that makes no sense. Tank is the utility tree, deception is the single target burst tree. Third, you can't play Deception like Tank then say it doesn't work (I only state this as you go on to say how great you are 1 V 1 vs deception) I guarantee Deception eats thru healers much quicker. I understand why most assassins play the tank spec, it's a "Safe" spec. Challenge yourself and master another spec (this could take weeks it's not EASY) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laforet Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 THIS! Each class is designed to play a role... do not expect to roll tank and do top DPS. THIS is why tanksins got nerfed but marauders and PT's did not. This is NOT about 1v1, do not roll a healer and expect to roll into a node with 2 defenders and take em out. Exaggeration... yes. But I feel like everyone complains because their class does not do it all. Seriously... play your role and help your team. This is not about kills alone... It's like rolling a sniper or gunslinger and being mad because you're not good at scoring on huttball. You should never touch the ball for more than 3 seconds if at all. This game is based on team play with a breakdown of 4v4 or 8v8 within PvE AND PvP. When broken down into 4v4 to make things simple... roll a team of 1 tank, 1 ranged DPS, 1 melee DPS and one healer. Put that up against 4 of any class, stacked. If you are on the balanced team and do not win.... uninstall. Says the marauder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGLYMRJ Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) Says the marauder. Yup... and I like my DPS classes... Hell, my legacy name is Deepy'ess... WHY? Because I enjoy killing stuff... if I liked keeping stuff alive I'd be a healer.... if I liked protecting my team, I'd be a tank. Get it yet? Or would you rather complain?... more... Edited July 20, 2012 by UGLYMRJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FodderofCannon Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Yup... and I like my DPS classes... Hell, my legacy name is Deepy'ess... WHY? Because I enjoy killing stuff... if I liked keeping stuff alive I'd be a healer.... if I liked protecting my team, I'd be a tank. Get it yet? Or would you rather complain?... more... His point, I think, was that Mara's are significantly better as said dps role, than decp sins are. I mean what other class has "I am invincible" cool down to go with insane dps? Certainly not Inf spec shadows, who as squishy as they are could sure use it. Just because you got killed by one once doesn't mean the AC is balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGLYMRJ Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) His point, I think, was that Mara's are significantly better as said dps role, than decp sins are. I mean what other class has "I am invincible" cool down to go with insane dps? Certainly not Inf spec shadows, who as squishy as they are could sure use it. Just because you got killed by one once doesn't mean the AC is balanced. That's cute and all... but my only problem with that is I have gone through this discussion sooooooooo many times. My original post had nothing to do with marauders and the only reason I brought it up is because this other guy did. The original comment was made in respect to people not recognizing the role of their classes. I'm really growing tired of the same song and dance, so I won't bother defending anything I feel to be true about the game or class balance. I've come to the point where I could care less about what people think. No amount of forum debate is going to change anything. If that were true they would have nerfed PT's AND marauders with the 1.3 tanksin nerf. As much as I love a good debate... I refuse to kick that horse any more. He's been dead for ages now. Edited July 20, 2012 by UGLYMRJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiranK Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 That's cute and all... but my only problem with that is I have gone through this discussion sooooooooo many times. My original post had nothing to do with marauders and the only reason I brought it up is because this other guy did. The original comment was made in respect to people not recognizing the role of their classes. I'm really growing tired of the same song and dance, so I won't bother defending anything I feel to be true about the game or class balance. I've come to the point where I could care less about what people think. No amount of forum debate is going to change anything. If that were true they would have nerfed PT's AND marauders with the 1.3 tanksin nerf. As much as I love a good debate... I refuse to kick that horse any more. He's been dead for ages now. Even within their own role, Deception Assassins are a joke. They can't burst down anyone cause their DPS is laughable. They can't 1v1 because other more armored and better CDed classes crush them. They don't excel at anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGLYMRJ Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) Even within their own role, Deception Assassins are a joke. They can't burst down anyone cause their DPS is laughable. They can't 1v1 because other more armored and better CDed classes crush them. They don't excel at anything. http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes/sith-inquisitor/assassin Maybe I read that description wrong but sounds like more of a scout than anything. Personally if I was rolling an assassin, just based on this one sentence description I would expect madness to be a better DPS class. Nothing in that brief description would ever make me think that it was a strong, damage dealing or a class with much survivability. In any games I've played... classes that spend a large amount of their time invisible are normally weaker, but faster on top of the stealth. But maybe we don't play the same games. Edited July 20, 2012 by UGLYMRJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujeo-finel Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 THIS! Each class is designed to play a role... do not expect to roll tank and do top DPS. THIS is why tanksins got nerfed but marauders and PT's did not. This is NOT about 1v1, do not roll a healer and expect to roll into a node with 2 defenders and take em out. Exaggeration... yes. But I feel like everyone complains because their class does not do it all. Seriously... play your role and help your team. This is not about kills alone... It's like rolling a sniper or gunslinger and being mad because you're not good at scoring on huttball. You should never touch the ball for more than 3 seconds if at all. This game is based on team play with a breakdown of 4v4 or 8v8 within PvE AND PvP. When broken down into 4v4 to make things simple... roll a team of 1 tank, 1 ranged DPS, 1 melee DPS and one healer. Put that up against 4 of any class, stacked. If you are on the balanced team and do not win.... uninstall. I'm gonna chip in here and say: this game isn't a 3rd person RTS. Ranged are not mass produced marines and melee specs are not expensive zealots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laforet Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) Yup... and I like my DPS classes... Hell, my legacy name is Deepy'ess... WHY? Because I enjoy killing stuff... if I liked keeping stuff alive I'd be a healer.... if I liked protecting my team, I'd be a tank. Get it yet? Or would you rather complain?... more... Then go deepy'ess with a sage. People already talk like they are entitled to do stuff because of their class. Players should matter, not classes. Its like the second class citizen idea. "If you are brown/black/yellow a good job for you would be doing my garden, if you are white you are entitled to be a lawyer, if you are brown/black/yellow and doesnt like being a gardener you need to L2P." Edited July 21, 2012 by Laforet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FodderofCannon Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes/sith-inquisitor/assassin Maybe I read that description wrong but sounds like more of a scout than anything. Personally if I was rolling an assassin, just based on this one sentence description I would expect madness to be a better DPS class. Nothing in that brief description would ever make me think that it was a strong, damage dealing or a class with much survivability. In any games I've played... classes that spend a large amount of their time invisible are normally weaker, but faster on top of the stealth. But maybe we don't play the same games. So it doesn't do damage, and it has no survivability. Well at least we are in agreement here. So basically it has stealth. Oh wait, Sents/mara/ops have that!!! And they do huge damage and they don't die when you sneeze on them. So.....Basically some AC's just have to be cannon fodder for the other classes. That's really the way I see it. Balance is hard work, why bother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missandei Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 THIS! Each class is designed to play a role... yea yea yea.. We already heard this.. «Some classes are designed to kill other classes Some classes are designed to be killed.. Just stick with your class role and have fun! L2p! If you are the prey - sit and wait to be killed. And don`t flutter!» Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neamhan Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 My bad, I play a tankasin. If I am looking at the last fire pit and my CDs are up... you can put 8 people (or 16 pyrotech PT w/e) in DPS mode *** ultra focusing me I am still gonna get that point, there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. Force Leaps and Leg Shot work just fine on it. So yes, there *is* something you can do about it. Though I really hope you do use Force Cloak when running the ball. Please, do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) You missed the entire point, so I'll spell it out for you: There is NO best class. There is NO worst class. There is NO mathematical advantage. The common denominator in all the QQ on the forums is the bad player. It's really that simple. There's a 12 step program available so that you people can one day learn to accept this. Every class in this game is perfectly viable in PvP. Some may not be for you personally, but I guarantee there are people out there playing them like a boss. First of all i respect your opinion, but this is mine. Yes there is a best class, this is the marauder/sentinel. based on your signature and avatar i assume you are a BH. Now what if bioware were to nerf your AC out of existence? What if te devs decided that tracer missle was still OP, so they take away the reduced armor benefit. Wouldnt that make IT the worst class? I agree that a great part of pvp is skill, but when you play a AC full of crap you are goin to dish out lackluster dps at the very best. Edited July 24, 2012 by ShadowMudkip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 All classes are equal and perfectly balanced, the reason we see people stacking ptechs marauders and operative healers in RWZs is because of the well know fact that the most skilled players rolled the aforementioned classes. Get some perspective. I am going to assume you are joking. (Merc /commando healers, Shadow/assassin DPS, DPS operatives/scoundrels) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColeWorld Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Now I feel the need to chip in. I've been watching this thread for a minute. Keep in mind this is coming from the perspective of someone who -isn't- good. I will openly admit it, at pvp i'm not good. I havn't had a game where i'm the worst on the team but I don't consider myself good, elite, great, or above-average by any means. Most problems on this forum come from the fact that everyone believes themselves to be at least above average. Nobody wants to admit that they aren't that great at a game. Some classes have roles and methods that are much more obvious than others. A pyrotech just gets into range and either bursts them down or dies. Consider SWTOR a sports game for this analogy here. I think that other classes aside from the "star" classes which everyone believe to be OP (Pyrotech PT's, Mara's, Tanksins, Op Healers, Snipers, and their respective mirrors) don't have roles cut and dry. All of the classes listed above easily have their roles and tactics easily spelled out. The other classes are the guys that bring the intangibles to the game. If I were a Merc instead I figure my roll would most likely be to keep a low profile while the high priority targets (because lets get real nobody thinks a Merc is high priority) attract the attention while I rain down AOE and support fire. Its not as glamorous as going through and seeing big burst numbers however if played right it can be essential to the team. I won't get that chance to quickly burst someone down if they don't have that damage on them beforehand from my support. There are slight mathematical errors to add to class balance that need to be tweaked with time however they aren't game breaking. The problem is we're trying to paint a zebra brown and make him a race horse. My Jugg DPS(as this is my new main) role and my Powertech DPS role are two differen't things. We both have our specialization in being dealing damage however our approach is different. If I expect to just leap to a target and try to behave like i'm a powertech I won't be nearly as efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) THIS! Each class is designed to play a role... do not expect to roll tank and do top DPS. THIS is why tanksins got nerfed but marauders and PT's did not. This is NOT about 1v1, do not roll a healer and expect to roll into a node with 2 defenders and take em out. Exaggeration... yes. But I feel like everyone complains because their class does not do it all. Seriously... play your role and help your team. This is not about kills alone... It's like rolling a sniper or gunslinger and being mad because you're not good at scoring on huttball. You should never touch the ball for more than 3 seconds if at all. This game is based on team play with a breakdown of 4v4 or 8v8 within PvE AND PvP. When broken down into 4v4 to make things simple... roll a team of 1 tank, 1 ranged DPS, 1 melee DPS and one healer. Put that up against 4 of any class, stacked. If you are on the balanced team and do not win.... uninstall. Please, do not expect to role a marauder and do 100k healing in a WZ. Thats more than i ever did with my tankasin. And i know this is the pvp forum but just a friendly reminder that this doesnt scratch the surface of the pve problem Edited July 24, 2012 by ShadowMudkip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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