Why do people insist on killing prices?

[Arkerus]

People can charge whatever the heck they want. It's called a free market. Get used it.

 

I love undercutting folks and watching my items sell in minutes instead of days.

[Kaisernick]

have u ever been to a real merket?

 

this is what you do to make a sale one person offers u a apple for 50p then a few steps ahead anouther offers you one for 35p.

 

also you will find that the prices will go down as the people who can afford them allready have them and the ones that cant wont buy them.

[irishtim]

Its how a market stabilizes.

 

There is no set price but what the person wants in return.

 

Your price may be too high, theirs may be too low. They even out in the end.

 

They might ask why do people try to rip others off by pricing so high? (not saying you were, just speaking in general).

 

It is all subjective.

 

Economically serious undercutting is not how a market stabilises, it's how it eventually collapses.

 

People list items very cheaply and in big numbers, supply goes past demand, people lower prices further to compete with the little demand left and then the raw materials for the item become more expensive than the actual item

 

loss leaders like this work in supermarkets as they draw customers in but in an MMO it doesn't work since the market in centralised and has multiple suppliers

 

The only thing you can do is to try to stay competitive and wait until other peoples items have gone off the GTN then list the items at a fair price and hope that people buy before the undercutting starts again. The only way i see prices going up is if the ammount of credit sinks goes down it will allow people have more funds to spend on the GTN

[MarmicMocius]

As someone who makes credits selling augments and augment kits, I have to agree with DarthTHC here. It may be that the market is different on the server MarmicMocius plays on, but Darth's price breakdown mirrors my own server prices..

 

My cost estimates are based upon the average cost it will run someone to complete crew missions in order to gather all the basic materials. The only real expense here is the grade 6 slicing materials. Drop rates as they are currently, the approximate average cost to gather 1 advanced neural augmentor is right around 10,000 credits. If you have a companion with a slicing crit bonus, this may go down a little. The other materials are readily available and do not have a significant impact on the overall investment necessary to make the desired augment.

 

What I have not bothered to factor in to my estimate of material costs for making an augment, is the time it takes to gather the materials/run crew missions, nor the process of learning the advanced schematics. I've chosen not to include these items because ultimately, the additional investment here is fairly minimal. ie, crew missions are most normally run while other actives are being done, or while logged out all together.

 

As a crafter, if you choose to purchase your crafting materials from the GTN then you are also accepting the additional financial burden of increased production costs. Understandably these costs will be forward to the people whom you're selling to. At the same time, you have to concede that you cannot be as competitive in price of your goods vs a crafter who may have chosen to invest the time to gather less expensive materials. Crafters with lower material costs can maintain a high profit margin, while still being able to undercut the price of their competitors.

[Calerxes]

I could write a paper on it (business major), but to keep it short a simulated economy is one where the monetary unit has no real value. A credit does not represent an actual resource in the game. There's no limit to the number of credits that are generated, nor is there any governing factors that determine a credit's worth. Similarly, the cost of items in the game does not reflect the worth of the basic monetary unit; a vendor item costs the same regardless of the economic state of the server.

 

A sign that a game boasts a simulated economy is that it requires one or more money sinks. A true economy doesn't need such systems, as it is self-balancing in some way.

 

 

So are not all MMO's simulated economies as they are simulations in their nature?

[SviBudd]

There is a fairly simple way that I look at market price when making something to sell. I take in the cost for all materials, then add 25% for time and effort. Anything being sold for less than my cost to produce, I buy then re-list the item, as it was cheaper for me to do so then create a new item. Anything sold above cost + 25%, is called gravy. Price undercutting to advance one's own sales, is common and as many have pointed out, a part of market stabilization. Anything sold below cost is simply dumping, and as long as the market maintains a benchmark price of at least cost, then it is operating as intended. If everyone starts selling for less than their cost to produce, and consistently, then its a broken market and the sellers are dumb.

[testszag]

..... If everyone starts selling for less than their cost to produce, and consistently, then its a broken market and the sellers are dumb.

 

or, we sellers realize this is just a game and we enjoy the nerd rage it cause on the boards. it gives us something to do when we can't log in, for whatever reason. making back any creds i may have lost is just so easy, and well worth it, as far as i am concerned

Edited July 13, 2012 by testszag

[DarkSaberMaster]

My cost estimates are based upon the average cost it will run someone to complete crew missions in order to gather all the basic materials. The only real expense here is the grade 6 slicing materials. Drop rates as they are currently, the approximate average cost to gather 1 advanced neural augmentor is right around 10,000 credits. If you have a companion with a slicing crit bonus, this may go down a little. The other materials are readily available and do not have a significant impact on the overall investment necessary to make the desired augment.

 

What I have not bothered to factor in to my estimate of material costs for making an augment, is the time it takes to gather the materials/run crew missions, nor the process of learning the advanced schematics. I've chosen not to include these items because ultimately, the additional investment here is fairly minimal. ie, crew missions are most normally run while other actives are being done, or while logged out all together.

 

As a crafter, if you choose to purchase your crafting materials from the GTN then you are also accepting the additional financial burden of increased production costs. Understandably these costs will be forward to the people whom you're selling to. At the same time, you have to concede that you cannot be as competitive in price of your goods vs a crafter who may have chosen to invest the time to gather less expensive materials. Crafters with lower material costs can maintain a high profit margin, while still being able to undercut the price of their competitors.

 

This pretty much sums it up for why I have the higher profit margin that I do. The only times I buy resources from the GTN is when I am leveling up a crafter quickly because it is faster to just buy the materials than to wait to build it up through gathering. The other time is when I want something specific crafted right now for myself and I don't have that material readily available. Other than that, I gather everything myself cause I have the time and patience to do so. It nets me a higher profit margin and allows me to be able to set the prices that I want.

[HeavensAgent]

So are not all MMO's simulated economies as they are simulations in their nature?

Not all. In some MMORPGs (not many) the monetary unit is representative of in-game goods. For example, someone in a game with a true economy who mines for resources would obtain an equivalent quantity of monetary units in exchange for those resources. They are not generated out of nothing, they have real value within the game itself, and both the value of the currency and its quantity reflects the wealth that exists within the system as a whole, as generated by player activity.

 

A simulated economy can be compared to a sink. Someone turns on the faucet and monetary units are generated and added to the system, be it by killing a mob, opening a chest, or completing a mission. These monetary units are not representative of the wealth found within the system. They have no value. Additionally, their value never changes. These currencies can be added to a simulated economic system without restraint, and overflow without a way to remove them from the system. Money sinks serve as a drain, fulfilling the need to remove monetary units and prevent the sink from destroying your bathroom.

Edited July 14, 2012 by HeavensAgent

[HeavensAgent]

Economically serious undercutting is not how a market stabilises, it's how it eventually collapses.

It is how a simulated economy stabilizes, though. Edited July 14, 2012 by HeavensAgent

[Jakarn]

Yes it is in this case.

 

You are taking the money other people worked on to get (by questing for instance). The difference of cred between the cost of production (mats, etc) and the profit is imaginary in this game. You just think you are entitled to get some money from someone else because you did it.

 

We could all just get money from selling stuff at cost + questing/dailying. Like I do, and I am never lacking money.

 

 

It is also cool to sell stuff cheap or just plain give them away. Makes you feel happy more people are getting otherwise expensive goodies and experiencing more the game.

 

 

 

But enough of my MMO-adapted Marxism.

 

Maybe some peope don't have the time to do the dailies as you do and they can get a little boring, what if I want to experience the legacy part of the game most of the legacy items cost about 1 mil, by doing the dailies (I only really get time to do one planet) I get about 100k, so it will take 10 days to get the I MIl that is if I don't spend money on other things.

 

If I sell stuff on the GTN and make a reasonable profit I can half that time and experience a part of the game I want to experience not what you dictate to me. By doing this you are putting players like myself through needless grind, something that most players hate in MMOs.

 

If the money is imaginery in this game as you say than let us make our imaginery cash, so it will not be a hassel to buy the items you say are making available. You are cutting down one of the avenues to make this money, some people like doing dailies others want to make money another way.

 

People will only pay what they can afford or what they think is right, so the price will adjust itself we don't need people to speed up that process. You arn't helping anyone, if money is so easy to get, you have your grind, let us play the market.

[Hyde_v]

I've been accused of undercutting when selling items. But the honest answer is that I just don't know how the Star Wars economy works.

 

In WoW, three hundred gold for an item is a pretty steep price. Over a thousand gold, amazingly high. Over ten thousand, ridiculous.

 

I once asked what a level 22 prototype medium armor piece would be worth. I was told prices ranging from 50,000 to 100.000 credits. I was blown away! That's quite a leap in the economics I'm used to.

[MarmicMocius]

You arn't helping anyone, if money is so easy to get, you have your grind, let us play the market.

No, he's not helping you; or rather any number of people who are trying to make money on the GTN by selling items for extremely high profit.

 

The fallacy in your asking to "let us play the market." is that you are implying that you're somehow being prevented from doing so, which simply is not the case. At best you're being prevented from playing the market according to the rules you dictate as opposed to the rules someone else dictates, or a free market.

 

The simple matter is that people can sell their merchandise at any price they want to. Normally this price will reflect a desire recover production costs, but not necessarily so. If someone is wealthy enough and has the motivation to flood the market with grossly under priced goods, there is nothing you can do about it. They have not broken any rules, stolen anything, committed any acts which are immoral, etc. This is really no different than in real life markets where wealthy parties flood a market with an abundance of money, or cheap goods. The situation will last so long as the resources of the investor persist and their desire to drive down prices exists.

 

You're upset because now someone else has more control over the market than you do.

 

Either you find a way to swing the market back in a direction that you can exert more control over, you learn to play by current rules, or you get out of the game all together.

[Socialist]

Maybe some peope don't have the time to do the dailies as you do and they can get a little boring, what if I want to experience the legacy part of the game most of the legacy items cost about 1 mil, by doing the dailies (I only really get time to do one planet) I get about 100k, so it will take 10 days to get the I MIl that is if I don't spend money on other things.

 

If I sell stuff on the GTN and make a reasonable profit I can half that time and experience a part of the game I want to experience not what you dictate to me. By doing this you are putting players like myself through needless grind, something that most players hate in MMOs.

 

If the money is imaginery in this game as you say than let us make our imaginery cash, so it will not be a hassel to buy the items you say are making available. You are cutting down one of the avenues to make this money, some people like doing dailies others want to make money another way.

 

People will only pay what they can afford or what they think is right, so the price will adjust itself we don't need people to speed up that process. You arn't helping anyone, if money is so easy to get, you have your grind, let us play the market.

 

I'm not forcing you to do anything.

 

Just trying to make you guys see that since this is a simulated economy and there is no such a thing as value on credits you can all be more altruistic.

 

Stop putting sky-high prices. Sell stuff at popular prices, so everyone can get the goodies.

 

Or just plain give them away like I do, but that is too radical.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Socialist

[Styxx]

I sell for as high as I think I can sell. Period. I don`t care about anyone, except for my own pocket.

 

Want to be idealistic? Buy my stuff and resell it for 1 cr. But don`t come with this "Holier than Thou" story, when you just have been undercut after you`ve done it yourself.

 

And Socialist.. by all means do that. I`ll just buy you out and resell double

 

[EDIT]And OF COURSE I`ll go -1 or -10 or -500 or -50k or whatever I feel like in that moment, as such as my product be cheapest. Or buy all under a certain price and resell high, if I feel like it. But at that time it is no longer the seller`s problem, since it got the asked price.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Styxx

[Socialist]

I sell for as high as I think I can sell. Period. I don`t care about anyone, except for my own pocket.

 

Want to be idealistic? Buy my stuff and resell it for 1 cr. But don`t come with this "Holier than Thou" story, when you just have been undercut after you`ve done it yourself.

 

And Socialist.. by all means do that. I`ll just buy you out and resell double

 

Watch out, we've got a badarse here.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Socialist

[Styxx]

Watch out, we've got a badarse here.

 

Watch out...sell neurals for 1k a pop... I`ll buy and resell for 20k

Edited July 14, 2012 by Styxx

[Socialist]

Watch out...sell neurals for 1k a pop... I`ll buy and resell for 20k

 

Fortunately I don't sell in the GTN though, at least most of the stuff I sell at such low prices usually just a few messages on the fleet do the trick.

 

 

I'll be sure not to trade with some guy who is apparently overly rich and has a nickname resembling Styxx

Edited July 14, 2012 by Socialist

[Styxx]

Fortunately I don't sell in the GTN though, at least most of the stuff I sell at such low prices usually just a few messages on the fleet do the trick.

 

 

I'll be sure not to trade with some guy who is apparently overly rich and has a nickname resembling Styxx

 

Me and my big mouth... I promise I`ll resell at... lower prices... on scout`s honour

Edited July 14, 2012 by Styxx

[vincent-]

I always undercut the guy who has the lowest I mean I do pvp all day and send my companions off to collect gifts and bingo I make 200k.

[testszag]

I'm not forcing you to do anything.

 

Just trying to make you guys see that since this is a simulated economy and there is no such a thing as value on credits you can all be more altruistic.

 

Stop putting sky-high prices. Sell stuff at popular prices, so everyone can get the goodies.

 

Or just plain give them away like I do, but that is too radical.

 

and nobody is forcing those people to spend so much money on the items they bought, either. if they do not wnat to pay so much, all they have to do is make it themselves, plain and simple.

 

while i enjoy tweaking the nose of those that like to sell high, i do it for fun, not because i beieve i'm some mmo robinhood. get over youself.

[Leweegibo]

So, I sold 3 Advanced Skill augment 22's on the GTN for 130k each earlier, after I made a few more, someone was sellling one for 130k so I put mines up for 129k, then I check back later, and unlike me reducing price 1k, people have been putting up sales for 130k 120k 105k 90k, why oh why? They sell fast enough, there's really no need to drop them so much in price it's just not needed..

 

As im being pretty specific about it being Advanced Skill aug 22, I'd imagine this goes on for alot of other items in-game...

 

Anyway, had some time to kill so figured i'd vent a little heat on the forums

 

cant arsed checking thru thread, but YOU started it! you undercut, should of left it at 130k, everybody wins

[HelinCarnate]

I've been accused of undercutting when selling items. But the honest answer is that I just don't know how the Star Wars economy works.

 

In WoW, three hundred gold for an item is a pretty steep price. Over a thousand gold, amazingly high. Over ten thousand, ridiculous.

 

I once asked what a level 22 prototype medium armor piece would be worth. I was told prices ranging from 50,000 to 100.000 credits. I was blown away! That's quite a leap in the economics I'm used to.

 

So how much wow gold can I buy with 50k credits?

[flyersfan]

I just like to make goodies available to everyone, so I lower the prices.

 

I do this as well. If I stumble upon a good piece of loot that I can't use or of which I have no need, then I throw it up on the GTN for about 1/2 the market price. I get more credits than I would from a vendor and some random person gets a deal (or some person I no longer like buys it to resell it at a higher price).

[Darthaes]

So, I sold 3 Advanced Skill augment 22's on the GTN for 130k each earlier, after I made a few more, someone was sellling one for 130k so I put mines up for 129k, then I check back later, and unlike me reducing price 1k, people have been putting up sales for 130k 120k 105k 90k, why oh why? They sell fast enough, there's really no need to drop them so much in price it's just not needed..

 

As im being pretty specific about it being Advanced Skill aug 22, I'd imagine this goes on for alot of other items in-game...

 

Anyway, had some time to kill so figured i'd vent a little heat on the forums

 

because if they undercut you by 1k its very easy for you to undercut them. They are selling it as little as possible while still making a profit and prob hope that youll give up trying to sell yours and when there is no more on gtn they will sell them for 130k im sure.