4 combat class's / 4 social class's

[Goretzu]

This isn't SWG 2. Just let it go.

 

True, at the moment it's going closer to the way SWG 1 went.

 

Now if they merged the strengths of SWTOR with the strengths of SWG.......... that would be quite a game.

[Eldreden]

a lot of the responses i read in this thread remind me of days past.

"what u talking about some automobile thingy? we got horses. why are u trying to change our horses?"

[Saurakk]

I have no problem with them adding classes but no classes should be taken away.

 

Since crew do our crafting for us, they would have to overhaul the entire crafting mechanic to allow for a crafting class that did nothing else.

 

Not saying it cannot be done, but not sure how they would do it.

 

Also, the non combat classes worked in a skill based game, but this exp level based game...how would you level as a dancer? or a singer?

 

Not trying to be a smart ***...but just curious how people who want this would implement it into this game in any fashion.

[Saurakk]

There were alot more pople who played original swg then you think, if you cast your mind back if your old enough before wow mmos hung around the 600k mark max, swg was right up there as one of the best. What made it great smedly killed. Dont blame the original concept of the game being bad because it wasnt, I would even go so far as to say that pre cu swg was the best mmo ever created, it was better then wow's geargrind and is very similar to what people are screaming is great about gw2 and secret worlds. Its just a fact that smedly tried to copy wow and failed hard.

 

I found it very empty with no real direction or purpose pushing your characters other than trying to switch every skill set in order to randomly unlock Jedi.

 

Empty planets, no quests per say, nothing.

 

I had fun for a bit being a creature handler hunting down rare babies and pulling nests; finding resource locations and laying harvesters down, getting a house, etc...but it all seemed like background fluff with no goal.

 

To me anyway.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Saurakk

[Goretzu]

I found it very empty with no real direction or purpose pushing your characters other than trying to switch every skill set in order to randomly unlock Jedi.

 

Empty planets, no quests per say, nothing.

 

I had fun for a bit being a creature handler hunting down rare babies and pulling nests; finding resource locations and laying harvesters down, getting a house, etc...but it all seemed like background fluff with no goal.

 

To me anyway.

 

 

Ironically SWTOR has strengths where SWG had weakeness...... annoyingly SWTOR has weaknesses where SWG had strengths.

 

You do have to remember that SWG was from a different time (when quest based levelling still wasn't the norm in MMORPGs), but having said that something in the middle of SWG and SWTOR (or as I mentioned something that combine both their strengths - and I think this is in no way impossible to do) would be an amazing game.

 

But SWTOR is almost the polar opposite of SWG, which is strange because SWG had a lot of good stuff (as well as flaws - and nightmareish Devs bases game changes).

[Vitellius]

SWG tried to be something it wasn't intended to be and that helped kill it. In some ways, you are requesting the same thing of swtor. It isn't designed to have social classes, and to add them would be a huge change to how the game currently functions. It's not something you can simply throw in. It would take tons of work that would be taken away from what's already on the drawing board. There are already social aspects in swtor, and we'll just have to live with those for now. Also, "...my friends would play if you put in X....." is a point you could use for anything, so that's not really a good argument.

 

And for the record, I was in the SWG beta (still have the disks), and played for the first 6 months, and the game was IMO, crap.

[Caelrie]

You WoW kiddos never played SWG so you have no idea.

 

I played both WoW and SWG. What's that do to your stereotype?

 

True, at the moment it's going closer to the way SWG 1 went.

 

Now if they merged the strengths of SWTOR with the strengths of SWG.......... that would be quite a game.

 

Yah, it would be a completely DIFFERENT game requiring another several years of development time.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Caelrie

[HolyMamamia]

Please don't turn this into an argument, this is a thread for discussion and creative idea's implementing a social class.

 

I must state again how much I love this game and how much I want this game to succeed.

 

Full voice overs are unbeatable and that was a spectacular idea. Something has to come next that's just as creative.

 

I understand adding social classes would require allot of work, but having 200k+ subscribers paying 15$ a month with an initial 50$ game fee would be quite the incentive for a company don't you agree? =)

 

I am only using SWG as an example because it has been the only mmo to successfully adapt anytype of a social class.

 

Adding a new class to the game would be extremely hard and time consuming but it is not impossible, WoW for example made the transition perfectly and that was with adding an extra damage/tanking class!!

 

Don't provide excuses, provide ideas and creativity.

 

If you don't like the idea of a social class, then how about social crew skills?

 

Im not suggesting this be SWG1 2 5 or 11 all im saying is that this game has the golden format of a star wars universe, what better for a game to offer a social class?

Edited July 13, 2012 by HolyMamamia

[Saurakk]

Please don't turn this into an argument, this is a thread for discussion and creative idea's implementing a social class.

 

I must state again how much I love this game and how much I want this game to succeed.

 

Full voice overs are unbeatable and that was a spectacular idea. Something has to come next that's just as creative.

 

If you feel STRONGLY AGAINST having any type of Social Class in this game can you please tell me why?

 

Thank you everyone for participating in this discussion.

 

As I said in my response, I am not against, just do not see how it would work in this specific game's leveling dynamic.

 

Without changing the core of this game, how do YOU see a social class leveling and advancing in the current game's system?

[HolyMamamia]

As I said in my response, I am not against, just do not see how it would work in this specific game's leveling dynamic.

 

Without changing the core of this game, how do YOU see a social class leveling and advancing in the current game's system?

 

 

Architect - gains all his XP from crafting, class mission quests and crafting quests. Simple as that.

 

Entertainer - gains xp from general entertaining, gains x4 x8 x16 xp for dancing for a group/ops.

 

Engineer - gains all xp from crafting, class missions and crafting missions.

 

4th - ???? i dont know about one yet, check the first post for my specs and ideas and please try and think of your own

[Darth_Halford]

There were alot more pople who played original swg then you think, if you cast your mind back if your old enough before wow mmos hung around the 600k mark max, swg was right up there as one of the best. What made it great smedly killed. Dont blame the original concept of the game being bad because it wasnt, I would even go so far as to say that pre cu swg was the best mmo ever created, it was better then wow's geargrind and is very similar to what people are screaming is great about gw2 and secret worlds. Its just a fact that smedly tried to copy wow and failed hard.

 

It's also a fact that if the game was half as good as you imagine it, they wouldn't needed to rehaul the entire game to stay afloat, and while you may think that it's the greatest game in the genre, ever, there's alot of disagreement about that, even before the New Game Experience. Alot of people thought that the game sucked, even when it first came out (before it could be compared to WoW) No AAA company makes "sandbox" mmo's anymore, and it's not just because of WoW.

 

Putting all of that aside, there's much more urgent issues. How do you come up with a Republic/Empire counterpart? How do you write good stories for them that extend through 50 levels of content? probably the most important (and why so many people give SWG crap I think) You can't make 50 levels of crafting interesting.

[pocketthesaurus]

I don't know why people find it so hard to understand that some of us out there actually ENJOY playing healing classes. I have all three, and you will pry them from my cold dead subscription.

This.

[Tfranco]

I have to agree with a previous statement: This isnt swg2...

[Alphasgimaone]

Citing SWG as the only reason for having something like this is short sighted.

 

It overlooks the fact social-based gaming is quickly overtaking combat-based gaming in the massive multiplayer market. In the coming years, those numbers are only going to increase. Video games (and online games by extension) are becoming more mainstream everyday. Social gaming is way more accessible and enjoyable for the vast majority of people. This new group of players is a huge market waiting to be tapped and a significant portion of that market is Star Wars fans.

 

Unfortunately for SWG, it came out before its time--and it had its own bag of design flaws that prevented it from ever achieving anything.

 

But to be perfectly fair, if you switched the two games' launch dates, TOR would have bombed hard and SWG would have been way more successful than it was simply on the merits of its social aspects.

 

If Bioware introduced special classes and other social aspects into the game, the subscription numbers would likely triple within six months. I can almost guarantee that.

 

People no longer want an online environment to play in. The want an online world--one where they have direct interaction with and can effect in any way they choose. That is why theme parks are on the way out. Sandboxes are the future and if Bioware wants their game to be successful for the long term, the must realize it.

 

Social classes would be an easy way to start. They wouldn't require any modification to the current game assuming they keep each classes "level" mechanic outside the rest of the game.

[Darth_Halford]

It overlooks the fact social-based gaming is quickly overtaking combat-based gaming in the massive multiplayer market. In the coming years, those numbers are only going to increase. Video games (and online games by extension) are becoming more mainstream everyday. Social gaming is way more accessible and enjoyable for the vast majority of people. This new group of players is a huge market waiting to be tapped and a significant portion of that market is Star Wars fans.

Yes "Social Gaming", like facebook games and little doo-dads on your Iphone whatevers, are growing in popularity....when they're free or very low cost. Nobody of yet has made a AAA "Social Game". I don't think those types of players are willing to hunker down into a persistant MMO environment for $15 a month.

 

Unfortunately for SWG, it came out before its time--and it had its own bag of design flaws that prevented it from ever achieving anything.

Considering that there were more games that were like SWG when it first came out than there were when it quit, I think both your "before its time" and "social gaming" premises to be very lacking.

 

But to be perfectly fair, if you switched the two games' launch dates, TOR would have bombed hard and SWG would have been way more successful than it was simply on the merits of its social aspects.

How can you say that so assuredly. I think if TOR came out and did what its doing now, before World of Warcraft came out, it would destroyed all of its competition.

The only reason people are having such trouble with TOR is because they feel it is too much like WoW without all of the neat doo-dads that WoW has added over the years. Well, if you release it before WoW has that kind of opportunity, you've struck gold.

If Bioware introduced special classes and other social aspects into the game, the subscription numbers would likely triple within six months. I can almost guarantee that.

A guarantee is only as good as the person who is making it, and you are just a random person on the internet who is waxing huge ammounts of nostalgia.

how can you prove this?

 

People no longer want an online environment to play in. The want an online world--one where they have direct interaction with and can effect in any way they choose. That is why theme parks are on the way out. Sandboxes are the future and if Bioware wants their game to be successful for the long term, the must realize it.

Except for the fact that there aren't any AAA Sandbox MMO's being made, and the ones that have in recent years have all seriously flopped.

The two biggest games in the genre cannot be themepark and at the same time say that they are on the way out.

 

Social classes would be an easy way to start. They wouldn't require any modification to the current game assuming they keep each classes "level" mechanic outside the rest of the game.

Except for completly reworking how crafting works so that you can give it to just one or two classes instead of being based off of the companions of all of the classes, than find a way to make crafting grant experience on par with the other classes we already have, than find enough dynamic experiences to fill 50 levels worth of content, and than mirror that for the other faction, and than create a narrative for both of them.

"Easy" my ***.

[darhsteel]

This isn't SWG 2. Just let it go.

 

This game isn't SWG,but SWG was a wonderful game and the best parts of SWG should be added into SWTOR. That would give this game the depth it needs so badly...

[Darth_Halford]

,but SWG was a wonderful game and the best parts of SWG should be added into SWTOR. That would give this game the depth it needs so badly...

 

that's the same thinking that lead to the New Game Experience...

[Shingara]

It's also a fact that if the game was half as good as you imagine it, they wouldn't needed to rehaul the entire game to stay afloat, and while you may think that it's the greatest game in the genre, ever, there's alot of disagreement about that, even before the New Game Experience. Alot of people thought that the game sucked, even when it first came out (before it could be compared to WoW) No AAA company makes "sandbox" mmo's anymore, and it's not just because of WoW.

 

Putting all of that aside, there's much more urgent issues. How do you come up with a Republic/Empire counterpart? How do you write good stories for them that extend through 50 levels of content? probably the most important (and why so many people give SWG crap I think) You can't make 50 levels of crafting interesting.

 

You see this is the thing, they didnt need to overhaul anything, smedly took it upon himself to change a sandbox game into a themepark game. And if you look in my previous and i think original reply in the topic i stated and exact way todo that. And in basic terms it is to make them faction neutral as they have zero role in the war.

 

Also the people miss quoting me or generally not even reading what i wrote at no time did i say that swg ever had 600k subs, i stated the general cap at that time was 600k for mmo's so please learn to read what i am stating.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Shingara

[testszag]

no thank you. keep that crap in swg, where it belongs

[Darth_Halford]

You see this is the thing, they didnt need to overhaul anything, smedly took it upon himself to change a sandbox game into a themepark game. And if you look in my previous and i think original reply in the topic i stated and exact way todo that. And in basic terms it is to make them faction neutral as they have zero role in the war

Except for the fact that they were bleeding thousands of customers every week, and that if they didn't make a change it would have been impossible for the game to ever be profitable. Oh ya, and that it was actually his higher-ups that said "update the entire game for this new marketing push we've been planning"

 

So in a "total war" scenario, which is absolutly what The Old Republic is, you want to make characters that have nothing to do with it?

Well, say goodbye to any of the flashpoints or the warzones. Say goodbye to any of the quests that are out there. Say goodbye to the Fleets.

Everything that any character does in this game is attached at the hip to the fact that the Republic and the Sith are at war. That you would presume with a straight face that you can make not only a new faction of classes that flies in complete and utter disregard of that and still keep the game's look and feel is beyond me. And even if it's not tied to faction, there's still the question of how do you make 50 levels worth of content for it, and how do you create a narrative for it? If it was another combatant class all you would need to do is come up with new class quests, but this is a whole other ballgame.

Plus how do you take all of the companion crafting skills that the players have been working on the for the past 8 months to learn and than give it to a new dedicated class and not hurt the players feelings? No matter what, it's going to feel like theft and wasted time. The only way (that I can see) getting around this is to leave the crafting companion skills as they are, but doing that defeats the whole entire point. Why make a class (or even 2) that does nothing but craft when I can play any other character that I already have and do the same thing? or for new players, why would I pick a crafting only-class when I can pick any of the other classes that does crafting plus either using the force or shooting big guns?

 

What your proposing is exactly the same as the NGE, and to say otherwhise is an absolute delusion.

 

What I think is the most funny is that you're taking what is arguably the most boring content out the most boring game and trying to sell it off as a winning strategy.

Nobody has EVER said that playing a dancer was FUN. It may have given good buffs, but that's entirely different. More specifically, I think your previous assertion that the 300,000 players that used to play SWG will come to this game, plus more, just for the ability to /dance and give people buffs is laughably illogical.

Nowhere are the actually potentially interesting parts of SWG being mentioned (player housing, a more in-depth space sim, etc). To think that every single SWG player is going to magically come and subscribe to a themepark game with 4 boring noncombatant classes and nothing else, is completly foolish.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Darth_Halford

[Goretzu]

Yah, it would be a completely DIFFERENT game requiring another several years of development time.

 

 

I disagree, many of SWG strong concepts could be bolted on to SWTOR as it is, they may not work quite as well, but they would still work.

[HolyMamamia]

I am going to repeat myself for the 4th time now.

 

Please do not say " leave that crap in SWG" or " Get over SWG" -- PLEASE tell me WHY Social Classes would ruin or not fit in with this game?

 

I love SW, I love the idea of a Social Class, and I am trying to see if they're are people out there who agree and disagree.

 

I am still looking for a 4th Social class and 3 specs, if you have any idea please post them.

 

Still hoping this catches wind, I know earlier someone asked how we would make opposites for Imp/Reb.

 

If my previous 3 suggestions are all Rebel (which to me was my thinkin) then just thesaurus words --

 

Dancer (Reb) - (Imp) Contortionist ----- Just needs to sound darker

[testszag]

I am going to repeat myself for the 4th time now.

 

Please do not say " leave that crap in SWG" or " Get over SWG" -- PLEASE tell me WHY Social Classes would ruin or not fit in with this game?

 

I love SW, I love the idea of a Social Class, and I am trying to see if they're are people out there who agree and disagree.

 

I am still looking for a 4th Social class and 3 specs, if you have any idea please post them.

 

Still hoping this catches wind, I know earlier someone asked how we would make opposites for Imp/Reb.

 

If my previous 3 suggestions are all Rebel (which to me was my thinkin) then just thesaurus words --

 

Dancer (Reb) - (Imp) Contortionist ----- Just needs to sound darker

 

what other reason than "i don't want it" do i need? i played swg, and didn't ike it. plain and simple.

 

again, leave that crap with swg, where it belongs

[Darth_Halford]

I am going to repeat myself for the 4th time now.

 

Please do not say " leave that crap in SWG" or " Get over SWG" -- PLEASE tell me WHY Social Classes would ruin or not fit in with this game?

 

I love SW, I love the idea of a Social Class, and I am trying to see if they're are people out there who agree and disagree.

 

I am still looking for a 4th Social class and 3 specs, if you have any idea please post them.

 

Still hoping this catches wind, I know earlier someone asked how we would make opposites for Imp/Reb.

 

If my previous 3 suggestions are all Rebel (which to me was my thinkin) then just thesaurus words --

 

Dancer (Reb) - (Imp) Contortionist ----- Just needs to sound darker

 

Rebels? Are you even playing the same game as the rest of us? There are no Rebels here.

 

 

Here's my immediate issues

How do you make 50 levels of "social" interesting?

 

How do you make a dedicated crafting class while at the same time not stealling all of the crafting that current characters already have, and thus alienating them?

 

How do you create a class story that spans 50 levels for any of these classes? I can't remember the last time I saw a "decent" movie or story about dancing or dancers. I can't reasonably expect that the first story to peak my interest in the dancing arts to come from an MMO.

 

What are the REAL differences between the Republic and the Sith versions of these classes? they may be mirriors of each other but they do have certain distinctions in both their abilities and appearances. Even though Troopers and Bounty Hunters are mirrors, you don't see Troopers with flame throwers, as an example.

 

As I pointed out before, The Old Republic is a war-game. All the characters are major pieces in the Total War approach between the two galactic forces, and all of the content in this game is driven by that. In that kind of environment, when the other characters are chasing down traitors, or killing the Emporer, and so on, making a character that does nothing but DANCE just doesn't fit.

[Listerman]

You WoW kiddos never played SWG so you have no idea.

 

...I'm playing it now on the Emu that's being run. It feels like I come home from one job, and log in to another one.

Does some things good, does others things...not so good. For instance, most times, I feel like I spend the bigger part of my time gathering crafting materials and standing in line for a shuttle.