DPS MERCS and SORC GO AWAY

[okwathne]

Is this post a joke? or is all mercs and so on playing on your server useless......

I have had loads of fun, and doing lots of damage with my pyro merc.

Just started playing on an other server to play a little with a co worker, and started with a PT, to get more the feeling of the diffrence between merc and PT....

[Asturias]

I don't find cylinder switching all that useful for a Commando. Granted, mine's not yet fully developed, and I am still yet to learn this class fully.

 

Maybe you're aware of a crucial detail that eludes me?

Your Cylinders boost your overall stats of what ever role your stepping into at the moment and takes but a few seconds to switch. I always come into a match with my CGC Cylinder because I am Pyro spec. Now whatever the situation deems at the moment I will switch Cylinders to support my fellow team mates which helps boost my performance better in that role, plus it can be a deciding win factor in a match (Like holding the line with 2 vs 5 and waiting on your reinforcements to show up so I'll switch depending what I feel is the right thing to do I.E. Heal or lay down the smack down).

 

I guess what I am saying is Mercenary DPS Spec players has there advantages in PvP and can be effective because when needed they can support or turn it up.

It really is L2P, FOTM classes are just that (Easy).

Edited July 11, 2012 by Asturias

[Dmasterr]

Is this post a joke? or is all mercs and so on playing on your server useless......

I have had loads of fun, and doing lots of damage with my pyro merc.

Just started playing on an other server to play a little with a co worker, and started with a PT, to get more the feeling of the diffrence between merc and PT....

 

Powertech does somewhat more damage.... but you can't heal, can't dispell... and have no 8 second cc. Knockback vs grapple is an ok trade.

 

Pyro merc should NOT be able to do the same damage as powertech pyro, just because he can do the above.

[Asturias]

Powertech does somewhat more damage.... but you can't heal, can't dispell... and have no 8 second cc. Knockback vs grapple is an ok trade.

 

Pyro merc should NOT be able to do the same damage as powertech pyro, just because he can do the above.

 

Says who, If I am DPS spec I should do just as much Damage as any other DPS spec player. Mercenary maybe able to heal but PT can Protect and its a lot easier for a PT to rack up badges in protection than it is for a DPS Merc in heals.

 

Ion Gas Cylinder - Powertech

 

Loads your blaster with ion-charged gas, giving ranged attacks a 15% chance to deal 618 additional energy damage. While this cylinder is active, threat generated is increased by 50%. Increases armor by 60%, decreases all damage taken by 5%, and increases shield chance by 15%. Only one cylinder can be active at a time. Ion Jolts can only occur once every 1.5 seconds.

 

If a DPS PowerTech BH is not utilizing his cylinders in certain situations to increase his survivability than he is not playing like a champ. Mercs don't get this Cylinder.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Asturias

[Helig]

Powertech does somewhat more damage.... but you can't heal, can't dispell... and have no 8 second cc. Knockback vs grapple is an ok trade.

 

Pyro merc should NOT be able to do the same damage as powertech pyro, just because he can do the above.

Interrupt, instant AoE stun :3

[Dmasterr]

Says who,

 

Says game balance.

 

If classes that have the capability to off-heal have the same burst and dps of other classes. Why should you play a class without heal capability?

 

Being able to do same burst and dps as a pure dps class, BUT ALSO have the ability to switch to heals is overpowered.

 

Think of it as class design budget. You have say 1000 points to spend. Spreading those points around for more roles, utility etc, .... you are going to be less efficient than a class that focuses those points on 1 role, for that specific role.

 

Jack of "all" trades, master of none.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Dmasterr

[Asturias]

Interrupt, instant AoE stun :3

 

 

Not to mention they are not as restricted to the stop and go effect with there abilities like Mercs/Commandos.

[Helig]

Says game balance.

 

If classes that have the capability to off-heal have the same burst and dps of other classes. Why should you play a class without heal capability?

 

Being able to do same burst and dps as a pure dps class, BUT ALSO have the ability to switch to heals is overpowered.

 

Think of it as class design budget. You have say 1000 points to spend. Spreading those points around for more roles, utility etc, .... you are going to be less efficient than a class that focuses those points on 1 role, for that specific role.

That's not how MMO balancing works.

[Dmasterr]

That's not how MMO balancing works.

 

That's exactly how game balancing works in regards to pvp.

[Sookster]

I continue to play my dps assassin and occasionally healer operative regardless of what's going on in warzones, I'm not going to jump on my marauder or PT (and respec it to pyro). But in some cases the situation is; if you can't beat'em join'em.

 

Hopefully things will turn around a little now that Zoeller is gone. Facing a team of 5-6 warrior/knights or powertech/vanguards every match has gotten very old.

[Sookster]

That's exactly how game balancing works in regards to pvp.

 

Not in many games.

[Asturias]

Says game balance.

 

If classes that have the capability to off-heal have the same burst and dps of other classes. Why should you play a class without heal capability?

 

Being able to do same burst and dps as a pure dps class, BUT ALSO have the ability to switch to heals is overpowered.

 

Think of it as class design budget. You have say 1000 points to spend. Spreading those points around for more roles, utility etc, .... you are going to be less efficient than a class that focuses those points on 1 role, for that specific role.

Have you looked at game balance lately and to see what classes are being played the most for PvP? There is a reason why people choose Mara and PT classes.

 

Mercs balance in the game comes from there abilities to ground them to the floor leaving them open.

[Helig]

That's exactly how game balancing works in regards to pvp.

 

Enope.

 

Your "points theory" completely ignores the synergetics of utilities, talents, exact application mechanics, and the abilities of other classes. Non-specced healer's heals are of questionable worth at 50 - I almost literally outDPS a non-specced character's healing with free attacks. Yes, they can be useful in the right time in the right place, but you overestimate their usage - especially in light of how the resource system works for Mercs\Mandos.

 

You can't DPS and heal at the same time. You can't even heal consistently and intensively as a non-specced character. You'll go dry very quickly.

 

 

This is basically the Vanilla WoW Paladin case. Because they had an invulnerability shield and healing, they rolled over dumb players, but those who knew how to fight them obliterated them like they were clumsy non-elite mobs, and there's little they could do unless they had a significant gear advantage. And the fact they they had "heavy armour, bubble and heals" held back the development of this class for nearly two expansions. Just because dumb players didn't know how to counter them. Know thine enemy, etc.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Helig

[Mossesman]

Your right OP...we should roll all the classes you want us to...i mean you are paying for our subscriptions arent you?

 

...oh wait

 

On my server, we are normally against guilds who roll atleast 3 or 4 PTs/Marauders/Focus spec juggernauts. A few days ago we ran with:

 

1 DPS Commando (Me)

2 DPS Shadows

1 Tank Shadow

1 DPS Sage

1 DPS Vanguard

1 Tank Guardian

1 Healer Scoundrel

 

We only did three games or so, but again this was against PT's and marauders and such. We won every single game, with myself and the sage normally topping damage charts in the match

Edited July 11, 2012 by Mossesman

[Dmasterr]

Have you looked at game balance lately and to see what classes are being played the most for PvP? There is a reason why people choose Mara and PT classes.

 

Mercs balance in the game comes from there abilities to ground them to the floor leaving them open.

 

Classes /specs have problems, sure.

 

But the #1 problem is that most players never bothered to learn their class.

 

So they flock to classes that offer higher performance returns for lower skill levels.

 

Class popularity shifts from classes with steep skill curve to play them effectively, to classes with a more mild curve... etc.

 

Game balance is around class capability, and not the players ability to play said classes as they were meant to.

 

WHY, do people start from the premise that all players have same skill level, and the performance difference between them is decided by game balance? That is wrong.

 

Now, i am sorry games are not balanced around average skilled players, but thats because it is impossible... who decides where to stop the bar and say,.. HERE! we should balance around this skill level?

 

Classes should be balanced around each other, and around game mechanics... entirely leaving player input out of the balancing process. You can not have variables that are impossible to determine in the balancing equation.

[Dsstronghold]

Enope.

 

Your "points theory" completely ignores the synergetics of utilities, talents, exact application mechanics, and the abilities of other classes. Non-specced healer's heals are of questionable worth at 50 - I almost literally outDPS a non-specced character's healing with free attacks. Yes, they can be useful in the right time in the right place, but you overestimate their usage - especially in light of how the resource system works for Mercs\Mandos.

 

You can't DPS and heal at the same time. You can't even heal consistently and intensively as a non-specced character. You'll go dry very quickly.

 

 

This is basically the Vanilla WoW Paladin case. Because they had an invulnerability shield and healing, they rolled over dumb players, but those who knew how to fight them obliterated them like they were clumsy non-elite mobs, and there's little they could do unless they had a significant gear advantage. And the fact they they had "heavy armour, bubble and heals" held back the development of this class for nearly two expansions. Just because dumb players didn't know how to counter them. Know thine enemy, etc.

 

I agree, with my sorc as a dps spec i tend to go dry after 4 healing casts and then find myself gimped becuase i have no force to dps.

I love everything about my sorc apart from pvp, people say we had it good for a while....well we did but the nerfs where to much to the class...

 

My sorc is still shelved and it will stay there till they get back some kind of bite..or untill GW2 comes out.

[Asturias]

Classes /specs have problems, sure.

 

But the #1 problem is that most players never bothered to learn their class.

 

So they flock to classes that offer higher performance returns for lower skill levels.

 

Class popularity shifts from classes with steep skill curve to play them effectively, to classes with a more mild curve... etc.

 

Game balance is around class capability, and not the players ability to play said classes as they were meant to.

 

WHY, do people start from the premise that all players have same skill level, and the performance difference between them is decided by game balance? That is wrong.

 

Now, i am sorry games are not balanced around average skilled players, but thats because it is impossible... who decides where to stop the bar and say,.. HERE! we should balance around this skill level?

 

Classes should be balanced around each other, and around game mechanics... entirely leaving player input out of the balancing process. You can not have variables that are impossible to determine in the balancing equation.

 

Nice write up but take into account a mild skill curve is an advantage to players of the same skill level.

 

By your own definition/logic a mild skill curve vs a complex curve will always win because its an over all instant win button. To me that is not balance but a advantage for the skilled player.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Asturias

[Helig]

I agree, with my sorc as a dps spec i tend to go dry after 4 healing casts and then find myself gimped becuase i have no force to dps.

I love everything about my sorc apart from pvp, people say we had it good for a while....well we did but the nerfs where to much to the class...

 

My sorc is still shelved and it will stay there till they get back some kind of bite..or untill GW2 comes out.

It's the same logic that some players use to justify Marauders\Sents doing more damage than Guardians\Juggs "But u haev hvy armr lol!!11", ignoring the fact that by itself, heavy armour provides merely 5-6% more Kinetic\Energy mitigation.

 

My Guardian has +31-ish% bonus from armour value, my Marauder has 25% bonus from armour value. And what's funny - under fire, with no ways to escape, my Marauder can last longer than my better-geared Guardian in a DPS spec, even when I switch to Soresu (merely a +17% advantage - including the flat bonus), losing my Focus and completely neutering my damage thanks to generation reduction.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Helig

[Dmasterr]

To me that is not balance but a advantage for the skilled players.

 

So, you are upset because good pvp players win versus players who are not so good at pvp ?

 

How is that unfair exactly?

 

 

By your own definition/logic a mild skill curve vs a complex curve will always win because its an over all instant win button.

 

Not always, and it is only relevant for players who are not good enough to play their class properly.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Dmasterr

[iphobia]

Powertech does somewhat more damage.... but you can't heal, can't dispell... and have no 8 second cc. Knockback vs grapple is an ok trade.

 

Pyro merc should NOT be able to do the same damage as powertech pyro, just because he can do the above.

 

One thing you completely forget there are taunts.

Short CD defensive cooldowns to support your group that are also available in dps stance.

 

For me this seems like kinda enough to make up the advantage off heal classes get.

 

The only real dps-only classes are Marauder and Sniper.

Edited July 11, 2012 by iphobia

[iRoof]

Seriously, when I have too many mercs and sorcs dps on my team its almost an instant loss. If you play these classes do your teamates a favor and switch to heals or reroll if you want to pvp. I cannot keep a merc alive long enough to make any difference. Now if you are the 1/100 who can outperform the real pvp classes then fine, but to the majority of you, your gimped toon is costing your team. Noone wants you in ranked and noone wants you in unranked either. Sad but true.

 

When you start paying for my sub you an start telling me what to do w my characters

[Dmasterr]

One thing you completely forget there are taunts.

Short CD defensive cooldowns to support your group that are also available in dps stance.

 

For me this seems like kinda enough to make up the advantage off heal classes get.

 

The only real dps-only classes are Marauder and Sniper.

 

That is your definition and your opinion . Not the game's.

 

Marauder and sniper also have abilities that affect the whole group, so i guess they are not pure dps either.

 

Not to mention that taunts don't reduce damage on yourself. (aside their big cd)

[Maxkardinal]

Classes /specs have problems, sure.

 

But the #1 problem is that most players never bothered to learn their class.

 

So they flock to classes that offer higher performance returns for lower skill levels.

 

Class popularity shifts from classes with steep skill curve to play them effectively, to classes with a more mild curve... etc.

 

Game balance is around class capability, and not the players ability to play said classes as they were meant to.

 

WHY, do people start from the premise that all players have same skill level, and the performance difference between them is decided by game balance? That is wrong.

 

Now, i am sorry games are not balanced around average skilled players, but thats because it is impossible... who decides where to stop the bar and say,.. HERE! we should balance around this skill level?

 

Classes should be balanced around each other, and around game mechanics... entirely leaving player input out of the balancing process. You can not have variables that are impossible to determine in the balancing equation.

 

#1 problem is broken classes.

 

Look at class capability as budget. 1000 points. Healing capability in this game don't compensate lack of everything else. It should but it don't.

 

Thats the main problem.

 

Second is player's skill.

[Dmasterr]

#1 problem is broken classes.

 

Look at class capability as budget. 1000 points. Healing capability in this game don't compensate lack of everything else. It should but it don't.

 

Thats the main problem.

 

Second is player's skill.

 

Care to point out something specific ? or you just making noise with your opinion.

[Maxkardinal]

Care to point out something specific ? or you just making noise with your opinion.

Lets see....

 

so i am not going to start blabbing about what i do just to appease some forum ppl.

Your reaction on a request to say something specific.

 

So, mr. Grand Champion of all games, back up at least 1 of your statements with something but your opinion, and we will move on.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Maxkardinal