Hardcore TOR: Would you play?

[CosmicKat]

Heh, no. In absolutely no way would your ideas promote diversity. Half of the existing classes would barely get played at all.

 

Forced grouping is over. Dead. Kapput. Gone. Extinct.

 

It has gone, because sometimes people just want to get online and kick around solo for a while, grouping occasionally. So what you'd have is 95% of players playing the few classes that aren't heavily reliant on their companions for soloing. Guardians/Juggs would become virtually extinct along with Sorcs and Sages. Mercs and Commandos would probably flourish.

 

That has never been the case in any MMO that I have played. Exactly the opposite actually, more people play tanks, crowd controllers, and healers because groups NEED them.

 

I agree that forced grouping is almost dead. A also think MMO's have been slowly dying since that aspect of MMO's was "killed". Is there a connection?

[Jherad]

That has never been the case in any MMO that I have played. Exactly the opposite actually, more people play tanks, crowd controllers, and healers because groups NEED them.

 

I agree that forced grouping is almost dead. A also think MMO's have been slowly dying since that aspect of MMO's was "killed". Is there a connection?

 

What can I say. My experience has been the polar opposite of yours, and I've played most MMOs.

 

Forced grouping died with WoW. The most successful MMO ever. Everything prior to that (with all that nice hardcore stuff lilke forced grouping, camping, corpse runs etc) was small potatoes.

 

[swtonewbie]

So a TLDR version of what the OP wants, is to take all the stuff you find in instances and make it apply to the rest of the game. Edited July 9, 2012 by swtonewbie

[Comstrike]

I would pay for a serious, hardcore, no holds barred, rules enforced, RP-PvE server.

 

And I'd pay extra for a separate forum for the hardcores to post in, and only in that forum.

 

I'd pay a sir-charge to join a private server.

[VegaPhone]

Thats why people play pvp servers since it makes the encounters random with the possibility of opposing factions interfering.

 

Generally in the open world things will be easy especially if people group up for quests or even bosses, but its the pvp that makes things more interesting... especially for bosses that have been memorized for their abilities and reduced to specific rotations, but with pvp it makes something easy and rehearsed, fun.

 

Maybe swtor needs a FFA pvp server since the pvp server atm are too isolated and redesign the worlds to encourage pvp by merging quest areas closer together... a slight modification... but that would mean pvp players, or FFA players play on a different version of swtor... a better version of swtor.

 

So for open world, they cant really over do it since people can group up, or it forces people to group up.

 

However, the challenge for solo still exists by going to worlds with more challenging content before the intended level. Its just there is no bragging rights.

 

But, I do like the fact that playing on a hardcore server means that there are like minded individuals so grouping would be with competent players who would be able to do nightmare mode unlike the random skills of players who made it to end game and want to do HM ops with ****** gear and also bad skill rotation...dragging others down with them.

Edited July 9, 2012 by VegaPhone

[Spectus]

1) Make companions non-combat No. This would remove one of the biggest things that differentiate SWTOR from all the other MMOs on the market.

2) Greatly increase the hps of MOB's Maybe, but this is in general a variation of an argument for harder mobs.

3) Increase the agro range of MOB's Plausible. I think it's a bit lame to have mobs so unaware of their surroundings, but I'd think long and hard about making players fight every step of the way across a planetary surface.

4) Decreasing MOB XP Again, a variant on the "make levelling harder" theme. Just another variable that can be manipulated. I'll comment on this set of suggestions in a minute.

5) Decrease MOB spawn times Egad, NO! This would penalize players who like to adopt a methodical combat style and reward players who like to go in bombs-away, AoE'ing everything as rapidly as possible. Crowd-control measures like mezzing a mob would be heavily penalized.

6) Instituting a penalty for death that was not crippling, but enough to make people think before leaping Such as? BioWare laid out their rationale for a mild death penalty in many dev blogs. They wanted to encourage player experimentation, not punish it.

7) Put a timer (10 minutes?) on "resting" recharge Another dead-on-arrival suggestion; see my response to #6 above. People want to PLAY the game; not WAIT to play the game.

 

COMMENTS: BioWare wanted to make this a casual-friendly MMO, to reach as broad a mass audience as they could. We can question that logic, but I doubt any major alteration in the game's overall play style would be considered, even on a small scale with specialized servers. That would require separate code-maintenance tracks, separate versions of the game, and so forth.

 

I can argue right alongside of you the silliness of the perceived value of "getting the ding" quickly and cheaply. After all, the easier the "ding" becomes, the less valuable it becomes. But that delves into the psychology of gamers themselves. No matter how many notches you carve into the yardstick, a yard is still a yard. And gamers will still be of the mentality that you "win" the game when you reach the level cap.

 

A far better solution is to integrate the levelling process with the formation of your character's play style, so that the levelling process itself shapes your character. This is the biggest argument for skillpoint-style levelling systems, such as are found in the Wizardry or Elder Scrolls RPGs. BioWare tries to give something like this with its WoW-style talent-point system, though I think it plays a bit like a trio of prefabricated choices, with differentiation intentionally limited to three basic lines per advanced class.

 

On the subject of MOB difficulty, I think increasing MOB density/decreasing respawn times/increasing aggro ranges are all of a piece. The way I see it, this would do little to increase the "fun factor" of the game. It would just mean more dumb mobs to fight mindlessly.

 

Rather, what I was hoping for with this game was state-of-the-art MOB artificial-intelligence responses, on a par with the AI routines of mobs in classic games like Half-Life. I was hoping for mobs that employed actual tactics, such as crowd-controllng your healer companion, or hitting you with a speed debuff then kiting you, or using objects in their terrain to break line-of-sight. Mobs do give you a few surprises, such as when rocket-pack troopers drop in behind you when you're trying to liberate the heavy-weapon emplacements outside Castle Organa on Alderaan, or drop a fire-spouting seeker droid, and you occasionally have to watch for a tank/healer/DPS trio and focus on the healer first -- but in general, mob AI is pretty bland. I'd urge BioWare's devs to brainstorm with the players sometime at a convention on the subject of NPC combat routines. I think increasing the variety of their combat actions could go a LONG way toward ramping up the difficulty level of the game, and GREATLY increase its interest level.

 

But regardless, no NPC will ever replace good ol' PvP for variety.

[RobNightfall]

The game is a long, dull grind post-50 and you want to make it longer, duller, and add to that occasionally frustrating. No thanks.

[Havokk]

Several online games I have played had a mode called "Hardcore" which was identical to the normal game except that death was permanent. Character dies, gets erased, saved files overwritten, say goodbye.

 

This mode is not for me but I have a lot of respect for players who do play it. Seeing a level 270 hardcore character in a Sacred game was pretty awesome.

 

I read that hardcore players are a lot, lot, LOT more cautious. No rushing in without first considering who they might aggro, what adds there might be, and so on.

[Rogoo]

Just a hypothetical question, but if they made a "Hardcore" server that was much more difficult than standard TOR, would you play it?

 

Nope. Wouldn't play it. If I want "hardcore MMOs" (whatever that means), there are other games out there.

 

SWTOR is perfectly fine as is.

[Brodysmith]

The OP didn't put much thought into this thread.

 

The game itself can already be pretty hard to play in certain situations if you don't have your companion with you.

 

So to buff the enemies, plus make companions non combative is kind of over the top. I don't see them ever making a server that doesn't allow you to have a companion that fights, since the leveling and story lines have a lot to do with your companions.

 

This type of server sounds like it would take a LOT of time and money to create, plus take away from normal content in the game for everyone else that doesn't care for this idea.

 

If you want the game to be harder, just skip all the planet quests except for the class quests, and complete them until they get to the difficulty you like, and then play from there.

 

Whenever I get bored I just start doing quests that are meant for higher levels to make it more interesting. Once you are level 50, and you have beaten all the hardmode OPs....then I suppose you just have to make another character or quit. If you get to this point, I think its safe to say that you are in desperate need of a break from this game, as you probably had played it way more than a normal amount of time.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Brodysmith

[Gokkus]

A timer on resting...thats not hardcore, thats just silly.

 

I dont think I would play it because it would go too slow compared to what Im used to. You can get a challenge out of normal servers by being lower level than the area. That is all the hardmode I need.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Gokkus

[Sindorin]

This isn't South Korea. We don't like the Aion Grind pl0x.

[SajmanPeetee]

Sure are alot of masochists in this thread.

 

If I wanted hard Id just roll a healer and use the LFD tool.

[Sindorin]

Sure are alot of masochists in this thread.

 

If I wanted hard Id just roll a healer and use the LFD tool.

 

What's a Dungeon Finder? I thought this was SWTOR.

[Fossman]

lol people are already complaining about current content being too "difficult"

[swtonewbie]

Forced grouping is over. Dead. Kapput. Gone. Extinct.

 

Yah i wouldnt want an MMO where you HAVE to group with people otherwise you wont progress. LOTRO used to do this back in the day. There were solo quests, but there were also a lot group quests and to make it worst some of the group quests were long chains. For convenience they put some of the group quests in the same area. But it was a major pain to find people who were all on the same part as you. I once spent 4 days in a zone trying to finish up a bunch of group quests. Nowadays LOTRO has taken out the group requirement for a lot of those quests.

[FourTwent]

Just a hypothetical question, but if they made a "Hardcore" server that was much more difficult than standard TOR, would you play it?

 

Disclaimer: The changes I propose are just off the top of my head, I have no idea how simple or difficult they would be to implement. I'm sure others could think of other ways to add challenge without blowing up the game and starting over. I also have no idea of the popularity of this concept, hence the post, but I talk to a lot of former MMO-playing friends who have no interest in any of today's "simple" MMO's. I believe there is a large market out there for this type of game.

 

The basic premise would be to greatly increase the difficulty and playing time required to level up.

 

Some changes I think could be reasonably simple to implement (for PvE), without re-writing the entire game would be to...

 

1) Make companions non-combat. They could only be used for crafting.

2) Greatly increase the hps of MOB's. I would think doubling all of them would be a start.

3) Increase the agro range of MOB's so they weren't so easy to avoid, and were more likely to aid their nearby comrades.

4) Decreasing MOB xps.

5) Decrease MOB spawn times to allow a more tactical approach to hunting. You would have time to work through an area before the MOB's respawned behind you.

6) Instituting a penalty for death that was not crippling, but enough to make people think before leaping.

7) Putting a timer (10 minutes?) on "resting" recharge.

8) IF the format proved successful, future content could be tailored to the "hardcore" style.

 

The goals would be to...

1) Lengthen the amount of time it takes to level.

2) Encourage grouping!

3) Promote class diversity. Healers and tanks would be much more valuable.

4) Vastly increase the danger/excitement/reward from the levelling experience.

5) It would make crafting a much more viable exercise if people didn't outlevel their gear every hour or two.

 

I think it would be a good test of the viability of the concept that players want a more challenging game. The risk to Bioware would be minimal and the reward could potentially be huge as no other game on the market today offers much of a challenging experience. What do they have to lose?

 

I am not advocating a return to the EQ-style game that requires as much time as a full time job, just something that the average player won't tire of in a few months because they will still be challenged by the game.

 

yes please yes please yes please!

[Vindigore]

You want to apply the single player's game logic of "difficulty settings" in an MMO ... as a few people have already pointed out, thats impossible - it would require different coding/different play testing/different Quality Control etc.

 

On the hypothetical and not-going-to-happen question of yours, I say : bring em on! If they are to make an "extremely difficult" server I 'd expect an "extremely easy" server as well. Difficulty setting goes both ways after all. I always play ALL my games on easiest setting. I want to survive even if I am half asleep the 2 hours / day I play (it happens quite a lot with my working hours). I don't give a rat's @ss about bragging rights / e-sports / e-peen / accomplishments via overcoming digital challenges. The fact that I survive my RL difficulties gives me all the accomplishment feeling I need - no video game means anything against that.

 

Sadly for both of us, it wont happen. So, I m stuck trying to find a stupidly easy MMO game (because it's the cheapest entertainment there is and money for Single Player games is money I cannot afford) and you are stuck with an easier-than-you'd-like game. We are both victims of the "middle ground" rule.

[Mirura]

..... Edited February 12, 2018 by Mirura

[asbalana]

No.

 

Game does not run well enoung to support hard core.

[Baphomet_x]

well for one thing...making compaions non combat will not happen...no matter what you or i say,no matter what the entire player base wants,it will not happen...the moeny from the investment allocated for that has already been spent

 

and in capitalism,especially when lots of money is involved in a tight budget,things move foward not backwards....too much of the story is tied into combat companions...

 

also,all of your suggestions would make this game die,so soon after launch.....

 

everything we see around us int he game today is merely an example,like a starter pack for whats to come...of course the first iteration was rushed....it wouldve taken a decade to develope the entire thing...and by then it wouldve been outmoted....and in order to get people in and hope they will stay....they have to actually appeal to people

 

and suddenly making this game from a semi-casual,yet delightfull western mmo,into an eye bleeding korean style grinder....would make it all fall apart

 

the people with the moeny to buy the game,and pay for the subscriptions usually have enough money,so its very unlikely that someone with alot of options,as many of you have expressed,would stay if things got any worse

 

so in the interest of the game,the wildly fluctuating base,and the future...things will move foward......

 

most of the mmo`s i have played have a lvl cap at 100 or somewhere near there,or sometimes a good deal above that....so its very unlikely swtor will be at 50 for very long,it will probably expand every so often in fits and starts,taking a seat somewhere at 100

 

and from 50,things will likely gradually increase in difficulty...because to get a character to 50 shows some knowledge and dedication to the game...so jumping up the difficulty most likely wont phase us from that point on...i speak of course beyond the most likely 1.4 addage of makeb and the new droid companion,

 

its only natural that they will add more planets,raise the level cap,add new features,probably a space feature to the game....id be less eager to raise cane over wanting more difficulty now,tha i would to raise cane over wanting the updates to come faster

 

TL;DR version

 

read my forum signature and click on the link

[Denki_]

You want hardcore?

 

Don't use your companions.

 

If you die, always release at the medical center.

 

Don't pick an advanced class.

 

Already did this with one of my alts pre-1.2 patch. Reached level 38 before I bailed knowing I will be in deep sh*t against Jadus.

[Baphomet_x]

Already did this with one of my alts pre-1.2 patch. Reached level 38 before I bailed knowing I will be in deep sh*t against Jadus.

 

yup....this game has a way of sneaking up on you like that

 

 

i make things hard core by purposely going to planets underlvled...the difficulty is invigorating yet manageable

[CosmicKat]

I think a major reason why there are so many negative responses is because most people have never played an MMO that was 'difficult'.

 

They think difficult means a Korean grind-fest. It doesn't. That isn't difficult, it's just time-consuming. Killing 1000 easy minions isn't any harder than killing 1, it just takes 1000 times as long.

 

Slowing the pace down doesn't mean making it boring. It means making it more MMO/RPG and less shooter. It means making fights last a few minutes instead of a few seconds.

 

Making a game harder doesn't make it less casual friendly. City of Heroes is a prime example of a much more challenging game that anyone can log onto and be in the action almost immediately, if so desired.

 

Making a game group-centered doesn't also make it un-soloable. It's perfectly possible to support both playstyles. Examples are Vanguard, CoH, Champions.

[Glowrod]

I wouldn't play it because I think the game is too hard as it is, at least on the republic side starting at about level 30ish and especially at about 42. The Empire side is just about right but I wouldn't want it any harder...