Guardian DPS - What's The Real Deal?

[Cavell]

I've heard conflicting reports. On the one hand, people say DPS Guardians are maybe half a step behind Sentinels. On the other, people say DPS Guardians are maybe a step above not hitting the target at all.

 

I think the consensus is that Guardians can put out some burst, but it's really only worthwhile burst once you're a 50 and in top-end gear; prior to that, it sounds like quite a struggle. That about right?

 

Bonus question: Guardian versus Marauder, one on one, equal skill, equal gear. Who wins?

[wispersixty]

I can answer the PvP question. I have no problem 1v1ing a Mara / Sent as a focus spec Guardian. Even if they get the opener, They are squish. Pop ur Def CD's early to negate the burst thats pretty epic from them and ur golden.

[Jageera]

I've heard conflicting reports. On the one hand, people say DPS Guardians are maybe half a step behind Sentinels. On the other, people say DPS Guardians are maybe a step above not hitting the target at all.

 

I think the consensus is that Guardians can put out some burst, but it's really only worthwhile burst once you're a 50 and in top-end gear; prior to that, it sounds like quite a struggle. That about right?

All melee classes in every game will be gear dependent, unfortunately. Vigilance spec is one of only two trees in the entire game that doesn't have a surge talent, it's 90% melee damage (meaning mitigated not only by armor, but by defense and shield chance as well), and it just doesn't stack up to any Sentinel tree. Focus is terribly predictable and the Sentinel version does it better. Defense is and always has been a garbage tree.

 

Sentinels, on the other hand, have the rare gift of having three amazing specs that all kick *** and have their own niche.

Bonus question: Guardian versus Marauder, one on one, equal skill, equal gear. Who wins?

Straight up, Sentinels have the highest skill curve in the game. Equal gear, low skill: Guardian wins. Equal gear, high skill: Sentinel. High gear, low skill guardian vs. Low gear, high skill Sentinel: Sentinel wins.

 

One of the greatest things about the Seninel is it's skill curve. If you learn your way around the class and play it well, you're immensely powerful. 85% of the population's Sentinels can't handle the class, however.

[durhame]

Gearing up, i'd use the vigi spec and harass or focus on people with someone else. you will live longer and dispatch is a bad *** tool to finish the job.

 

Once you get up there and start getting some WH gear, i'd swap to focus. burst is better for the over all group.

[Helig]

Straight up, Sentinels have the highest skill curve in the game. Equal gear, low skill: Guardian wins. Equal gear, high skill: Sentinel. High gear, low skill guardian vs. Low gear, high skill Sentinel: Sentinel wins.

 

One of the greatest things about the Seninel is it's skill curve. If you learn your way around the class and play it well, you're immensely powerful. 85% of the population's Sentinels can't handle the class, however.

A pretty accurate assessment. I agree.

[MimicUnleashed]

I'm Vig and I can stay within 100DPS of our Sentinels with equal gear. Plus for as much as Sentinels bring, when you've got a boss to 3% and the tank goes down, a Guardian can pop Soresu, taunt, hit blade barrier and pull out the win. However I agree that Vig needs small changes to bring it up to a Sentinel's DPS. Adjustment of dot damages, and an AOE damage reduction being about it. Other than that? It's all about if you want 1 saber, 2, and if you want to cause or control the chaos.

[Cavell]

Sentinels, on the other hand, have the rare gift of having three amazing specs that all kick *** and have their own niche.Straight up, Sentinels have the highest skill curve in the game. Equal gear, low skill: Guardian wins. Equal gear, high skill: Sentinel. High gear, low skill guardian vs. Low gear, high skill Sentinel: Sentinel wins.

 

Well, that's thoroughly depressing.

[GarfieldJL]

Guardians can sometimes out DPS Sentinels due to accuracy. Assuming both players have 100% accuracy for all their attacks (meaning they hit all the time), the Sentinel comes out on top, however Sentinels actually can and will miss their target with their attacks more frequently than a Guardian which can put a Guardian in the position of better damage output.

 

Thus it turns into whether or not the Sentinel player is having a lucky day so to speak.

[wispersixty]

Straight up, Sentinels have the highest skill curve in the game. Equal gear, low skill: Guardian wins. Equal gear, high skill: Sentinel. High gear, low skill guardian vs. Low gear, high skill Sentinel: Sentinel wins.

 

I agree with the skill curve, however; High Skill, High gear Guardian vs High Skill, High gear Sent / mara. it isnt so cut and dry. They are fairly equal when it comes to this combo. It really boils down to who gets lucky at this point. Can the guardian pop his CD's at the exact right time? If he can mitigate that crazy burst damage he's got the advantage in the fight. It also comes down to opener too. In this example Opener will usually determine winner.

 

People have the misconception that the Focus Guardians have the "LoL" spec of the game, simply untrue if you are actually skilled at your class. Yes it all revolves around 1 ability in particular, but using it properly will increase your pvp ability in a HUGE way. None-the-less you can still be bad and be good at being focus lol

[Cavell]

Wait, we missed high gear, low skill Sentinel versus low gear, high skill Guardian.

 

If that goes to the Sentinel, Guardian's right out of consideration.

[wispersixty]

Guardian wins that one.

[Draqsko]

Guardians can sometimes out DPS Sentinels due to accuracy. Assuming both players have 100% accuracy for all their attacks (meaning they hit all the time), the Sentinel comes out on top, however Sentinels actually can and will miss their target with their attacks more frequently than a Guardian which can put a Guardian in the position of better damage output.

 

Thus it turns into whether or not the Sentinel player is having a lucky day so to speak.

 

You realize what you are saying is nonsense? Sentinels don't miss any more than a Guardian with their main hand, if accuracy is equal. All those misses you see from sentinels come from their offhand saber because accuracy is capped for offhand.

[GarfieldJL]

You realize what you are saying is nonsense? Sentinels don't miss any more than a Guardian with their main hand, if accuracy is equal. All those misses you see from sentinels come from their offhand saber because accuracy is capped for offhand.

 

I'm aware of that...

 

It seems we do more damage with our mainhand weapon, or have the potential to do more damage with our mainhand, than the sentinel does, which makes sense if you think about it.

 

Someone earlier posted up information about the practice bot that if you're playing as a Sentinel you do more damage than Guardian hands down. However when you look at logs that people have posted links to, you can see instances where the Guardian is outperforming a Sentinel.

 

If both the sentinels sabers are hitting 100% of the time, then the sentinel can and will generate more damage overall than a Guardian (I'm not talking about numbers one can get from burst damage talking about over the course of a long fight). Sentinel's main saber may deal less damage, but the offhand is where the sentinel picks up the added damage output to outperform a DPS Guardian (assuming 100% accuracy for both weapons). However, a Sentinel can miss with their offhand and those misses especially on some of the Sentinel's heavy hitting attacks, makes it so a Guardian can outperform a Sentinel in combat.

[Siorac]

I agree with the skill curve, however; High Skill, High gear Guardian vs High Skill, High gear Sent / mara. it isnt so cut and dry. They are fairly equal when it comes to this combo. It really boils down to who gets lucky at this point. Can the guardian pop his CD's at the exact right time? If he can mitigate that crazy burst damage he's got the advantage in the fight. It also comes down to opener too. In this example Opener will usually determine winner.

 

People have the misconception that the Focus Guardians have the "LoL" spec of the game, simply untrue if you are actually skilled at your class. Yes it all revolves around 1 ability in particular, but using it properly will increase your pvp ability in a HUGE way. None-the-less you can still be bad and be good at being focus lol

 

If you mean PvE DPS then maybe though I don't think so. If you're talking about 1v1 duel between equally skilled and equally geared Sentinel and DPS Guardian - assuming they all have all their cooldowns available - then it's not even a contest, the Sentinel/Marauder should destroy the Guardian every time. They have a higher damage output and significantly better PvP survivability; their cooldowns are simply too powerful. Soresu and Taunt and whatnot are nice utilities but they won't save you.

[Sgt_Hammer]

in a 1v1 situation as a vig guarding if i'm in soersu form i'm gimping my self and deserve to die for it in most cases equal skill and gear a 1v1 will come down to luck and correct placement of defensive cooldowns

[Draqsko]

I'm aware of that...

 

It seems we do more damage with our mainhand weapon, or have the potential to do more damage with our mainhand, than the sentinel does, which makes sense if you think about it.

 

Someone earlier posted up information about the practice bot that if you're playing as a Sentinel you do more damage than Guardian hands down. However when you look at logs that people have posted links to, you can see instances where the Guardian is outperforming a Sentinel.

 

If both the sentinels sabers are hitting 100% of the time, then the sentinel can and will generate more damage overall than a Guardian (I'm not talking about numbers one can get from burst damage talking about over the course of a long fight). Sentinel's main saber may deal less damage, but the offhand is where the sentinel picks up the added damage output to outperform a DPS Guardian (assuming 100% accuracy for both weapons). However, a Sentinel can miss with their offhand and those misses especially on some of the Sentinel's heavy hitting attacks, makes it so a Guardian can outperform a Sentinel in combat.

 

Most sentinels i know have exactly the same main hand stats as mine.. and their offhand is slightly better than mine.. No idea what sentinels you are looking at but they get the same total stats on their WH as guardians do. Only now they have two of them.

[Andrew_Past]

I've played both high-end PVP and PVE as Vigilance and Focus (except EC HM as Focus.) Both specs are viable against every class in PVP and can compete with other classes on DPS meters in raids. I'm usually top damage, or near top damage in both PVP (regulars and raided) and PVE. I am completely confident in my ability to 1v1 any class and contribute to a group in large fights.

[DrumDeity]

I'm Vig and I can stay within 100DPS of our Sentinels with equal gear. Plus for as much as Sentinels bring, when you've got a boss to 3% and the tank goes down, a Guardian can pop Soresu, taunt, hit blade barrier and pull out the win. However I agree that Vig needs small changes to bring it up to a Sentinel's DPS. Adjustment of dot damages, and an AOE damage reduction being about it. Other than that? It's all about if you want 1 saber, 2, and if you want to cause or control the chaos.

 

Blade Barrier is a Defense talent.

[Draqsko]

Blade Barrier is a Defense talent.

 

And you would have to give up T7 and T6 in Vigilance to get it. Meaning you are a hybrid tank, not a DPS.

[Sharee]

Blade Barrier is a Defense talent.

 

He probably meant saber ward, seeing as you can't "hit blade barrier" since blade barrier is a proc off bladestorm

[wispersixty]

If you mean PvE DPS then maybe though I don't think so. If you're talking about 1v1 duel between equally skilled and equally geared Sentinel and DPS Guardian - assuming they all have all their cooldowns available - then it's not even a contest, the Sentinel/Marauder should destroy the Guardian every time. They have a higher damage output and significantly better PvP survivability; their cooldowns are simply too powerful. Soresu and Taunt and whatnot are nice utilities but they won't save you.

 

I disagree, I have come across many sents on my server that lose to me one v one. I'm not saying its easy, mostly I win at 1% HP due to Enure, but I still win. And Higher damage output? When I remain constantly active in a WZ I NEVER lose on meters.

[alcek]

I can answer the PvP question. I have no problem 1v1ing a Mara / Sent as a focus spec Guardian. Even if they get the opener, They are squish. Pop ur Def CD's early to negate the burst thats pretty epic from them and ur golden.

I doubt that you can do that with consistent results to any half-descent sentinel out there.

[Jageera]

There will be times a good Guardian will beat a good, geared Sentinel, but they will be few and far between. The trick, really, is finding a good, geared Sentinel. Most Sentinels just don't get as much out of the class as the select few do. And when you run into those select few, you remember them and you wonder why you picked Guardian at level 10.

 

For example, if the Sentinel doesn't have Defense Roll, he's doing it wrong. A Focus Guardian saying Sentinels are squishy is a Focus Guardian who hasn't fought a halfway decent Sentinel, much less a good Sentinel. The skill curve is a lot larger than a Guardian's, so you'll find more good Guardians than you'll find good Sentinels.

[wispersixty]

There will be times a good Guardian will beat a good, geared Sentinel, but they will be few and far between. The trick, really, is finding a good, geared Sentinel. Most Sentinels just don't get as much out of the class as the select few do. And when you run into those select few, you remember them and you wonder why you picked Guardian at level 10.

 

For example, if the Sentinel doesn't have Defense Roll, he's doing it wrong. A Focus Guardian saying Sentinels are squishy is a Focus Guardian who hasn't fought a halfway decent Sentinel, much less a good Sentinel. The skill curve is a lot larger than a Guardian's, so you'll find more good Guardians than you'll find good Sentinels.

 

As i stated in a previous post. You can be bad at guardian and still be pretty good. Skill curve isnt big. However, finding a guardian who knows his class inside and out, much harder. Same for sent / mara's. Finding the great players is hella difficult. But again, to the original argument, its EVEN imo when a great sent / mara goes up against a great Guardian.

[Jageera]

But again, to the original argument, its EVEN imo when a great sent / mara goes up against a great Guardian.

Then we agree to disagree. Give the Guardian one more defensive cooldown and make Commanding Awe's buff to Focused Defense universal, then we'll talk again.