Assault or Tactics for pvp?

[paltrysum]

Subject says it all. Leveling a vanguard primarily for pvp and would like to know which tree offers the best pvp performance. Thanks!

[Rylarr]

Subject says it all. Leveling a vanguard primarily for pvp and would like to know which tree offers the best pvp performance. Thanks!

 

Assault is currently the superior tree

[TheOpf]

Assault is currently the superior tree

 

balderdash.

 

Assault is the currently hyped tree. All three are viable. Assault is easier to top out your damage. Tactics is easier to play and provides more mobility and utility.

 

All three trees are viable and played in rated.

[Morath]

balderdash.

 

Assault is the currently hyped tree. All three are viable. Assault is easier to top out your damage. Tactics is easier to play and provides more mobility and utility.

 

All three trees are viable and played in rated.

 

Opf, here is what I would like to know. I have read a lot of your posts because I like tactics a lot. Here is the thing. I dont really care about top damage but what keeps me going back to either maverick or a form of tib candle spec is that in 1 v 1 against any decent pyro, or any other decent class I lose a lot more than with the former specs.

 

Now I know this is a team game but there are a lot of times when you just wind up out in the open or guarding and you are the last line of defense. Tactics just doesnt seem to put the hurt on unless it uses plasma cell for me.

 

What are you doing, because in some posts I hear you say you never lose to pyro if you see them first, in another post you said you split 4 solos against a pyro. Again I dont want to focus too much on 1 v1 play but it happens a lot. How do you handle those odd circumstances?

 

Here is what I typically do. If its a pyro and I am full tactics without plasma cell. I charge and when I hear beep beep beep.. up goes my shield. I fire off hammer and sticky as I charge. In 10m i hit Fire pulse SS and Ion pulse and slapp a bleed on them.. then I try to make sure combat tactics is up before using HIB, of course if PC is up 5 stacked I will fire that off which is usually stunned I break, hit hold the line and try to stay behind them. I guess I rinse and repeat.. but I always get the beep beep beep again and usually haved been dotted down before I can get them.

 

I got to be missing something.

[TheOpf]

Opf, here is what I would like to know. I have read a lot of your posts because I like tactics a lot. Here is the thing. I dont really care about top damage but what keeps me going back to either maverick or a form of tib candle spec is that in 1 v 1 against any decent pyro, or any other decent class I lose a lot more than with the former specs.

 

Now I know this is a team game but there are a lot of times when you just wind up out in the open or guarding and you are the last line of defense. Tactics just doesnt seem to put the hurt on unless it uses plasma cell for me.

 

What are you doing, because in some posts I hear you say you never lose to pyro if you see them first, in another post you said you split 4 solos against a pyro. Again I dont want to focus too much on 1 v1 play but it happens a lot. How do you handle those odd circumstances?

 

Here is what I typically do. If its a pyro and I am full tactics without plasma cell. I charge and when I hear beep beep beep.. up goes my shield. I fire off hammer and sticky as I charge. In 10m i hit Fire pulse SS and Ion pulse and slapp a bleed on them.. then I try to make sure combat tactics is up before using HIB, of course if PC is up 5 stacked I will fire that off which is usually stunned I break, hit hold the line and try to stay behind them. I guess I rinse and repeat.. but I always get the beep beep beep again and usually haved been dotted down before I can get them.

 

I got to be missing something.

 

It honestly depends on the pyro. If I see him first and can grapple him to me it's Fire pulse, gut , Ion pulse x2 SS, Ion pulse times two and just stick to blowing him up when I can.

 

In a 1v1 fight if we see each other at the same time, he has an advantage. If I see him first, I grapple him to me, than I start the rotation. When the beep beep beep happens, I pop my shield. When he rocket punches I carbonize him. The key is splitting up his damage. No need to stay behind him. Just face him off.

 

Bubble often, when he sets up his second beep beep beep. Electro dart him. don't trinket the carbonize trinket the dot. If he outgears you, than you will die. If he equal gears you 1v1, he more than likely can beat you unless you can break up his burst.

[Vaipyr]

All three trees are viable and played in rated.

 

What shield spec is viable? My guild wants me to tank in PvE, which is great because I've always loved tanking in MMO's and have rolled a tank class for every one (and healers, never DPS unless for lulz because.... meh). But since 1.3 I just can't seem to be able to pressure anyone with either a full SS build or the IF build I used to be able to run (to avoid constant respecc'ing). I'd love tactics, but again it can't tank in PvE so there's the constant respecc'ing (sometimes 3-5x a night). My bud is a healer, he's always my healer in every MMO, and even he has given up on VG's as tanks when a sin/shadow can 1v3 as a tank and even come out with a win vs baddies solo defending nodes. I've spec'd assault and have been told the only spot for a VG in a rated team is if they are assault but again, it's lame imo and there's the constant respecc'ing fee.

 

I'm honestly curious because at this point it just feels like if I want to tank and not be a drag on the team with a gimp tank (for PvP, PvE VG's are fine) I need to level a shadow or a guard.

[Morath]

It honestly depends on the pyro. If I see him first and can grapple him to me it's Fire pulse, gut , Ion pulse x2 SS, Ion pulse times two and just stick to blowing him up when I can.

 

In a 1v1 fight if we see each other at the same time, he has an advantage. If I see him first, I grapple him to me, than I start the rotation. When the beep beep beep happens, I pop my shield. When he rocket punches I carbonize him. The key is splitting up his damage. No need to stay behind him. Just face him off.

 

Bubble often, when he sets up his second beep beep beep. Electro dart him. don't trinket the carbonize trinket the dot. If he outgears you, than you will die. If he equal gears you 1v1, he more than likely can beat you unless you can break up his burst.

 

Thanks for the info. It just seems life is a lot easier.. in pvp with plasma cell. Doing all the same things you just mentioned but with plasma would tip it to your side a lot more often. I currently decided to run a crazy spec that basically is full tactics but I took paralytic stems which gives you an ammo everytime you get stunned.. its crazy how well that keeps my ammo up. I rarely seem to have any ammo probs. In any event thanks for the info I will try it with my tib spec and then back to full tactics and see how it goes.

 

I assume the tedious part for you is running out of energy but if you do all the same things.. play basically the same way except you lose out on the 5% damage mitigation from ss and steely resolve.. you lose 15% speed and 1 ammo every 6 seconds plus 8% on internal and elemental but you gain 1300 damage or so over 6s every time you hit ion pulse which is used to build PG. And if those dots crit.. its a lot higher.

 

Paralytic stems is probably not as good as the 1 ammo every 6 seconds but I prolly get stunned in a fight at least 6 times in a minute or knocked down or back.. (multiple enemies) Thats at least an ammo every 10 seconds and its when you need it.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Morath

[ATango]

If you like tanking then go all out SuperCommando set for as much mitigation as possible even if it is only for 2 of the 4 damage types. The role has changed. You are not to kill anyone. You are to guard the person being focused and annoy the crap out of everyone trying to kill them. That.. is .. it.

 

Tactics and Assault are pretty close although I would say assault will edge out tactics slightly. In a 1v1 situation the damage difference in 20 secs of the fight(tops) is marginal and it really comes down to who sees who first and the CD's available. If you're tactics and caught in this encounter with harpoon on cd you are dead. If you can start with a fire pulse the same time they're tossing out the AP it's game on.

 

I love tactics as it has an advantage vs classes with a knockback and classes capable of spamming slows. As tactics you can easily gain distance with gut slow and HtL but with AS you have to time it with your stuns and ion pulse slows. HtL is the game changer here. Sitting on top of a sniper or merc or sorcerer with cd's popped, HtL active and raining down damage while they do their knockback in vain puts a smile on my face every single time.

[metaldragen]

I love tactics as it has an advantage vs classes with a knockback and classes capable of spamming slows. As tactics you can easily gain distance with gut slow and HtL but with AS you have to time it with your stuns and ion pulse slows. HtL is the game changer here. Sitting on top of a sniper or merc or sorcerer with cd's popped, HtL active and raining down damage while they do their knockback in vain puts a smile on my face every single time.

 

I'll attest to that - Alpha loves to blow up my healer merc and I've recently started PvPing on my Sniper and have experienced this from him as well - it sucks

[TheOpf]

What shield spec is viable? My guild wants me to tank in PvE, which is great because I've always loved tanking in MMO's and have rolled a tank class for every one (and healers, never DPS unless for lulz because.... meh). But since 1.3 I just can't seem to be able to pressure anyone with either a full SS build or the IF build I used to be able to run (to avoid constant respecc'ing). I'd love tactics, but again it can't tank in PvE so there's the constant respecc'ing (sometimes 3-5x a night). My bud is a healer, he's always my healer in every MMO, and even he has given up on VG's as tanks when a sin/shadow can 1v3 as a tank and even come out with a win vs baddies solo defending nodes. I've spec'd assault and have been told the only spot for a VG in a rated team is if they are assault but again, it's lame imo and there's the constant respecc'ing fee.

 

I'm honestly curious because at this point it just feels like if I want to tank and not be a drag on the team with a gimp tank (for PvP, PvE VG's are fine) I need to level a shadow or a guard.

 

31 point tank builds with Supercommando armor are a pain in the arse to kill. Stop thinking in terms of pressure. You have a smart aoe dot, that can't be cleansed (I have tried) and are one of the toughest people out there to kill. Throw your guard around, and keep peeling people off your dps and healers. Stick with your groups. The Two biggest mistakes most tanks make are:

 

1. They are still in damage pvp gear. You don't do enough damage to warrant this anymore.

 

2. They stick their guard on a healer and never move it. Your taunts, guards, adn peels should be used proactively. Your guard should only be tossed to your healer when someone is on him other wise rotate it around to your dps. Use Jet charge to get you into the middle of a group that is attacking a node or your main dps than use your aoe, and aoe taunt.

 

 

Remember you aren't going to do much on your own, but it's a pain to kill a tank.

[Vaipyr]

Remember you aren't going to do much on your own, but it's a pain to kill a tank.

 

Maybe this is what's bugging me then, as a single mara or pyro shuts me down in just about 4-5 GCD's, 2 dps during the duration of a stun. I have full BM currently, both combat tech and supercommando which I have started using since the patch (I actually originally got it as an easy way to get into tanking HM's, heh). With more and more focus fire driven by coordinated teams with voice chat when I throw guard on another player who's just had the 4 dps from the other team leap onto him, taunt/aoe taunt, I'm typically dying either right before or right after he does and it only seems to take a few moments.

 

I hate to ask but perhaps it's a healer issue then (I notice the same outcomes both with my teammates, and with pugs so... /shrug) I'm seriously lost at this point because I don't feel "tanky" at all, and now with being unable to actually "combat" anyone it's leaving a very sour taste in my gameplay experience.

[ATango]

I'll attest to that - Alpha loves to blow up my healer merc and I've recently started PvPing on my Sniper and have experienced this from him as well - it sucks

 

I've been messing around with both AS and Tactics lately. The players I run rateds with don't like me running tactics. They prefer the burst from AS. Also, not my fault you're on the "wrong" team.

 

 

Maybe this is what's bugging me then, as a single mara or pyro shuts me down in just about 4-5 GCD's, 2 dps during the duration of a stun. I have full BM currently, both combat tech and supercommando which I have started using since the patch (I actually originally got it as an easy way to get into tanking HM's, heh). With more and more focus fire driven by coordinated teams with voice chat when I throw guard on another player who's just had the 4 dps from the other team leap onto him, taunt/aoe taunt, I'm typically dying either right before or right after he does and it only seems to take a few moments.

 

I hate to ask but perhaps it's a healer issue then (I notice the same outcomes both with my teammates, and with pugs so... /shrug) I'm seriously lost at this point because I don't feel "tanky" at all, and now with being unable to actually "combat" anyone it's leaving a very sour taste in my gameplay experience.

 

theoretically 50% of the damage from a guarded target is coming your way so you both should be losing health. If you both are dropping it's definitely a healing issue. Either the healer isn't healing you or isn't in a situation where you take priority or out of range. There are some healers while pressured don't heal the tank that is bleeding off some damage as they are so caught up healing themselves. Possibility is also there that they didn't notice that they were guarded. Once the tank dies they follow soon enough though. If you are guarding a healer let them know that you have them guarded just in case.

[Ersan]

It honestly depends on the pyro. If I see him first and can grapple him to me it's Fire pulse, gut , Ion pulse x2 SS, Ion pulse times two and just stick to blowing him up when I can.

 

In a 1v1 fight if we see each other at the same time, he has an advantage. If I see him first, I grapple him to me, than I start the rotation. When the beep beep beep happens, I pop my shield. When he rocket punches I carbonize him. The key is splitting up his damage. No need to stay behind him. Just face him off.

 

Bubble often, when he sets up his second beep beep beep. Electro dart him. don't trinket the carbonize trinket the dot. If he outgears you, than you will die. If he equal gears you 1v1, he more than likely can beat you unless you can break up his burst.

 

Newbie vanguard here, but could you please elaborate on the statement "trinket the dot". Thank you in advance.

[ATango]

Newbie vanguard here, but could you please elaborate on the statement "trinket the dot". Thank you in advance.

Was probably just a typo.... possibly meant dart instead of dot for Electro Dart. There are only 2 abilities that the trinket will be able to help with carbonize/neural surge or cryo grenade/electro dart. Trinket is better used for the 4 sec cc ability rather than the 2.5/3 sec ability. Whatever you do in a 1v1 against another PT/VG there will be one stun you have to sit through. Might as well make it the shorter one.

[Ersan]

Was probably just a typo.... possibly meant dart instead of dot for Electro Dart. There are only 2 abilities that the trinket will be able to help with carbonize/neural surge or cryo grenade/electro dart. Trinket is better used for the 4 sec cc ability rather than the 2.5/3 sec ability. Whatever you do in a 1v1 against another PT/VG there will be one stun you have to sit through. Might as well make it the shorter one.

 

Thank you for clarifying that. I thought that I would be able to trinket out of a Pyrotech's DoT ability. How silly of me .