Healing is fine, they said. Just gear up, they said.

[Khoraji]

That doesn't mean anything with a full heal specced sorc which is left alone to cast his aoe heals and big heals I can get numbers way over a dps, but it didn't really help my team survive with the aoe heals.

 

Really? Doing 600k+ healing didnt help your team survive?

 

What the HELL did it do then?

[alexsamma]

Do not take backlash/kinetic collapse, especially if you bubble others! What this does is turns melee opponents into unstoppable death machines by filling their resolve bar. Save your ranged stun for use on ranged Dps when you are unable to Los. Save your knockback for when you have more than one opponent in melee range. Do not waste gcds when moving. Shield teammates, slow the melee chasing you or the opponents healer, interrupt, throw a rock/shock at low health targets.

 

Remove benevolence from your bar. It's too little, too expensive, and too late.

 

Cast deliverance to keep your team topped off. That way someone will not drop because you got interrupted.

 

Come to the realization that you can not "save" a target with heals alone. CC, shield and hope they pop a medpack so you can land a meaningful heal.

 

Know when to Dps. 2v1 with enemy reinforcements inc is the best example here. Burn that target and CC/kite to keep the odds even.

 

That's about all the help I can provide. This is coming from a bm geared sage heal hybrid that averages 75k dmg, 300k heals, and 200k damage taken in war zones and does not run with a reliable tank.

 

Your dps let you get deliverance off? LOL

 

Deliverance is almost useless in PvP against decent players, you light up like a christmas tree and any competent player can/should/will interrupt you.

 

Sages suck in rated(against good teams), you're never in a 1v1, or a 2v1, it's usually a 3 or 4 vs 1 and you are stunned/cc -> dead.

 

And DPS do constantly hit for over 5k crits, especially the min-maxed teams you run up against in rated - Smash Juggs and Sweep Guardians can hit you for 6-7k + 4.5 back to back if they know what they are doing and are specced/geared correctly

 

This is coming from a full augmented WH hybrid spec Sage that normally pulls 500-600k healing, and 60-100k damage in normal warzones.

 

To the op: your math on deliverance is wrong, or you're stats are screwed up, you should be able to hit 5k+ with deliverance if you can get it off; also, you should have enough alacrity to get deliverance down to 2.22-2.26 seconds without sacrificing too much in the way of secondary stats.

 

Sage is OP against bads, but we are free kills for any team that knows what they are doing.

 

BTW, I am one of the best sage healers on my server, I come out in top place on healing 99.9% of the time, mark targets, kite, los, stun, cc, dot, and even help my guildmates kill focus targets

Edited July 5, 2012 by alexsamma

[jblazen]

Augments increased everyone's health and your healing. What are you trying to say?

 

Go DPS if healing is too hard?

 

You're missing the point. Healing is not too hard, it's too impossible. I'm in a pvp guild with the best sorc healers on our server and they all say that same thing. I used to be dps wanted to give healing a shot since I haven't tried it yet since beta.

 

Healing was fine in 1.1, we got gutted in 1.2 and now in 1.3 dmg has increased a lot and it makes healing much more difficult. Plus if you're full 31 in corruption, you have very little in the wav of survivability. Most sorc healers have to go hybrid to even survive and we miss our 31 point big AOE heal which is a problem if you have to miss your 31 point talent just to survive.

 

If you understood anything about trauma you'd understand that it affects healing twice as much as dmg. Thus when you continue to scale with gear and augments, the gap continues to widen and it gets more difficult.

 

DPS is boring as a sorc. I like a challenge and something with a higher skill ceiling.

 

The fact that most highly rated RWZ teams on my server won't take sorc healers tells you all you need to know.

[Never_Hesitate]

Really? Doing 600k+ healing didnt help your team survive?

 

What the HELL did it do then?

 

Well with my 1k crits from my aoe, the people still die.

I can't keep anyone up with that, you see that, don't you?

But if a lot of people stand into my aoe and get healed, the focused ones don't survive but i get big numbers, don't I?

[SinnedQWERTY]

In pugs when people notice you are a healer there are more of less two outcomes (after getting marked by someone with a clue.)

 

They keep humping a tank/other one and you can heal in relative peace, now and then someone will jump you.

 

They kill you the second they see you... only being guarded by a tank and them getting peeled off will safe you.

 

The later, if the dps don't time their interrupts, you are not going to die (with some gearing up)

 

The sad thing is, healing does need a dedicated team(member) to succeed in protecting you. DPS whined so hard that BioWare just gave up and gave them what they want. Not having to interrupt, just smash buttons to out dps a healer.

 

Pretty sad. But I can't really object to things that make this game more group oriented. For now I'll object to the fact that Bioware caved on dps having to work together to succeed and now just placed that same issue upon tanks and healers.

 

Also, mostly talking about pugs here. In ranked / teams ... sorry, you need to be protected, smack your tanks/dps for not doing so and peeling if you get pulled apart. Gear really is important also, if it wasn't and it was all skill, we wouldnt have any of the threads here about premade's farming pugs for comms. Because they wouldn't have to do so, because its all "skill".

Edited July 5, 2012 by SinnedQWERTY

[Khoraji]

You're missing the point. Healing is not too hard, it's too impossible. I'm in a pvp guild with the best sorc healers on our server and they all say that same thing. I used to be dps wanted to give healing a shot since I haven't tried it yet since beta.

 

Healing was fine in 1.1, we got gutted in 1.2 and now in 1.3 dmg has increased a lot and it makes healing much more difficult. Plus if you're full 31 in corruption, you have very little in the wav of survivability. Most sorc healers have to go hybrid to even survive and we miss our 31 point big AOE heal which is a problem if you have to miss your 31 point talent just to survive.

 

If you understood anything about trauma you'd understand that it affects healing twice as much as dmg. Thus when you continue to scale with gear and augments, the gap continues to widen and it gets more difficult.

 

DPS is boring as a sorc. I like a challenge and something with a higher skill ceiling.

 

The fact that most highly rated RWZ teams on my server won't take sorc healers tells you all you need to know.

 

Sorc healers are the worst for pvp, yes. But you said "Since 1.3". What has changed?

 

Trauma is there because of boss dmg, how hard is that to understand? Raid healers need to be able to heal for more due to the massive boss dmg that you will never see in PvP.

 

What your talking about isnt "trauma", its the fact that Power/Mainstat do not scale as well for healing as it does for DMG. Which I dont quite understand, but the fact that Expertise only really effects healing, it will work itself out.

[Khoraji]

Well with my 1k crits from my aoe, the people still die.

I can't keep anyone up with that, you see that, don't you?

But if a lot of people stand into my aoe and get healed, the focused ones don't survive but i get big numbers, don't I?

 

So stop AoE'ing and cast a real heal when its needed....

[Saltydogg]

Roll DPS, try to kill a Guarded Operative healer then tell me if healing is useless.

 

It's not, you just have to work together with tanks.

 

Once again the theory of guard the healer. You know in any game that I have ever played in the only time you guarded the healer was during PVE so the healer didnt gain aggro. This game however hit the healers so hard that if you dont guard them in PVP they are smoked. FYI a guarded anyone can actually heal in this game. The point is why does the healer have to rely on a entire group to survive when going up against one dps class?

[Khoraji]

Once again the theory of guard the healer. You know in any game that I have ever played in the only time you guarded the healer was during PVE so the healer didnt gain aggro. This game however hit the healers so hard that if you dont guard them in PVP they are smoked. FYI a guarded anyone can actually heal in this game. The point is why does the healer have to rely on a entire group to survive when going up against one dps class?

 

we dont, learn to heal?

[Saltydogg]

You suck or your team sucks.

 

I'm a shadow tank most of the time in PVP but have a BM sage and Gunslinger. I honestly feel bad when I follow around a healer on my tank just doing nothing but guarding them and taunting people who attack them because I know I'm ruining the PVP experience for 8 other people. It's laughable how unkillable we are. Attack the healer? Ha, you hit him for 10,000 and he takes 3325 (10000 *.7 for taunt *.95 for guard, *.5 for transfer). Attack me? I have 23k hps and a healer! Swarm us? If the healer is a sage we just heal circle and laugh at you. If the healer is a smug we just hit stealth then run around dot healing. If the healer is a trooper ... HAHA I'm just kidding, there are no trooper healers

 

Bottom line? A tank / heal combo can easily hold the line long enough for people to get to the objective 6:2 and should win 4:2 every single time. It is broken on a level that is just unthinkable.

 

As for the solo healer? I guess a sentinel can kill a sage now-a-days. No other healer should die one on one to any class ever.

 

You know what would be fun? If you were actually able to use the guard ability as it was designed. Guard melee dps and smash faces. Nope you have to babysit healers because they nerfed most of the healing. Oh I am a Commando Healer and I will tell you it hurts alot to not have a guard bot on that class.

[Saltydogg]

we dont, learn to heal?

 

LOL I love the learn to heal posts. What healer have you rolled?

[Khoraji]

LOL I love the learn to heal posts. What healer have you rolled?

 

Merc healer since launch...

 

EZ to heal myself 1v1

[Saltydogg]

Really? Doing 600k+ healing didnt help your team survive?

 

What the HELL did it do then?

 

LOL try self healing half the time. I can get 400-500k every WZ. Most of that is self healing and kiting. So you tell me how 600k helped the team survive when most of it was to keep yourself alive????????

[Saltydogg]

Merc healer since launch...

 

EZ to heal myself 1v1

 

LOL you should never never lose 1v1 to anyone undergeared or just a bad player. Also I love the fact you base a team game ie Warzones on a 1v1 basis

[Khoraji]

LOL try self healing half the time. I can get 400-500k every WZ. Most of that is self healing and kiting. So you tell me how 600k helped the team survive when most of it was to keep yourself alive????????

 

Were those DPS hitting your other team members? You helped

 

Were those DPS capping nodes/passing the ball/doing any objective? You helped.

 

Healing yourself is just as useful as healing someone else.

[Khoraji]

LOL you should never never lose 1v1 to anyone undergeared or just a bad player. Also I love the fact you base a team game ie Warzones on a 1v1 basis

 

Because half the people in this thread seem to think 1 dps vs 1 healer = auto-win for dps.

[Never_Hesitate]

So stop AoE'ing and cast a real heal when its needed....

 

A heal with 2.5s cast time?

Or the one that is channeled?

Or the one that doesn't heal enough?

Or the shield which gets one-hitted?

 

All are stationary and my scenario was:

Being left alone so you can freecast.

That almost never happens.

With the ton of interrups in this game, I can't even fakecast.

A mara can interrupt 5 heals in a row (6 if specced right)

[Khoraji]

The point is why does the healer have to rely on a entire group to survive when going up against one dps class?

 

Including you...

[Saltydogg]

Because half the people in this thread seem to think 1 dps vs 1 healer = auto-win for dps.

It is 1v1 in this game. Hence all the self healing unless you have your team peel off and kill the dps or if you have a guard bot. Either way you still have to self heal. One Marauder can harass a Commando Medic to the point where the only heals going out are to said commando.

[Annex]

Sage is OP against bads, but we are free kills for any team that knows what they are doing.

 

BTW, I am one of the best sage healers on my server, I come out in top place on healing 99.9% of the time, mark targets, kite, los, stun, cc, dot, and even help my guildmates kill focus targets

 

This guy knows what hes talking about.

 

Ironic thing is that the DPS posting here "you are bad, sorc healers are awesome imo" are the actual bads here. Sorc healers are ONLY good when playing incompetent players (ie allowed to cast).

 

Against any decent players youre a free kill.

 

@OP - Dont listen to most of these guys, Youre not wrong and you opinion wont change much in WH. I run in full augmented WH and I still drop like a sack of **** when a decent DPSer properly wants to kill me. And yes, I get crit for 5k+ ALL THE TIME. I also have a BM/WH jugg and I hit sorcs for 5k ALL THE TIME.

 

Class is just broken. Go hybrid and get what fun you can from it until BW get their heads out of their.....

[CJNJ]

Merc healer since launch...

 

EZ to heal myself 1v1

 

So what would happen if we took away your ability to be uninterruptible and your 25% damage reduction, along with the weakest armor type in the game... Then tell him the same thing

[Never_Hesitate]

Sorc healers are the worst for pvp, yes. But you said "Since 1.3". What has changed?

 

Trauma is there because of boss dmg, how hard is that to understand? Raid healers need to be able to heal for more due to the massive boss dmg that you will never see in PvP.

 

What your talking about isnt "trauma", its the fact that Power/Mainstat do not scale as well for healing as it does for DMG. Which I dont quite understand, but the fact that Expertise only really effects healing, it will work itself out.

 

Why does expertise buff dmg output more than heal output then?

And the problem is that the substained dmg (through relicts and augments) went up a lot and the few burst phases (every 2 min) did go away.

[Saltydogg]

Including you...

 

I guess you still dont understand the point. To build a team around a healer is just downright stupid. The healing classes should be able to stand on their own, dish out heals to the team and themselves while taking damage. Thats the whole point of having a good healer on the team. However with cc, the healing nerf, and the amount of interupts plus some classes have the ability to reduce healing even further, pretty much make you have to play with a guard bot of its a waste of time. Ranked WZ's on my server the first thing that goes down is a Merc/Commando healer. WHY? Because they are weak and are one trick ponies. Get them to pop all their cooldowns and bam dead healer for the next two minutes.

[Tathais]

2 stuns will always fill the resolve bar. The other CC options have different effects. But 2 stuns = full resolve.

 

Like I said before. 2dps vs 1 ANYTHING you will get demolished. If you were a PT Pyro(most OP DPS class) you would die just as fast against 2 DPS. Being a healer makes no difference here

 

1v1 you should be doing alot better. I can only speak for myself as a merc healer so... its kind of hard to compare but you said earlier that this isnt a class specific thread, your saying ALL healers are dealing with these issues, which isnt true. 1v1 I can stand there and heal without a problem. DPS ops give me issues and so do Mara/sent sometimes, anything else is EZ heal mode. And ops are even better at that than mercs so....

 

Good to know, I'll accept that. This line of conversation came about because you asked where my cc-breaker was and I told you that I'll use it, and get immediately stunned again. I'll accept that 2 stuns fill resolve, but I'm still dying before resolve can come into play.

 

Two DPS vs. 1 anything getting demolished is *horrible* game design. Insta-gibbing is no fun, players need time to react and counter. I can go on mumble with a buddy and call target switches all day and there's nothing anybody can do to counter it. Which brings me back, if two DPS focusing something is supposed to annihilate the target, healing simply has no purpose.

 

And perhaps I was off base in that comment? I made the assumption that all healers were running into this problem. I top the healing charts most WZ I go into and still get pulled apart like a wet kleenex, I guess I assumed that other players were too. If this isn't correct, then maybe sages need buffs?

 

Join a guild maybe? if you can find a pvp guild that will accept someone who plays as little as you do.

 

Find some friends? Ask the tank to guard you? I told you this many times. Healers are TEAM oriented, they are a support role. Your team needs you, and you need your team.

 

You keep saying healers are team oriented... DPS aren't? Why should DPS be able to run free and clear while healers have to get the full support of everybody on their team. It's senseless game design. If DPS were subject to the same restriction, we would have balance, but we don't, so we have imbalance. It's not all that hard...

 

I was full BM before 1.2

 

War hero gear is available to everyone, is your game bugged or something? The average, mid-level player is well past BM unless they just got the game or just hit 50.

 

If your game is bugged and you cant get WH gear, then you need to start itemizing your BM gear so you dont have all that useless alacrity/accuracy. Start to min-max your character in BM gear. It will help even more than the gear itself.

 

My guild has plenty of people with alts that are in only BM and we do just fine. You simply do not play enough to know what you are doing.

 

War hero gear isn't available to me because it takes so long to get for a casual player. I shouldn't have to spend my entire life in this game to remain viable. I don't mind being a little behind because I didn't grind out as much gear, but being absolutely useless unless I'm in full WH? That's a pretty big problem.

 

Look, I don't know what's going on in your life and I don't really care. All we need here is for you to understand that not everybody plays every night for 3-4 hours, nor should they have to. I already have a full-time job, I don't need another. I'm here for entertainment and diversion. We're not talking standard MMO gear disparity here, this is a big problem. They told me a month ago that I needed full BM to have a chance. I'm almost there and there's no difference, now, only a month later, you're telling me I need full WH, something I won't be able to get given my current play schedule (800 RWC per week from 2 dailies and a weekly)? There's no way I can keep up. A game shouldn't require that much time commitment.

 

So your saying your thread title was mis-leading (aka a lie?)? "Almost all BM pieces" is like saying "I just hit 50", your thread title should have been "Im a new healer that just hit 50 and I am getting killed to fast, BUFF PLS" and I would have ignored it like all the others.

 

As for your example where you do nothing to protect yourself and your team is nowhere to be found...

 

You should still be alive and your opponent should be out of resources. The difference between us is that you think those "large damaging attacks" do 5k, when in reality they are doing 2500-4k, Maybe once a game goes over 5k.

 

In your next few warzones, screenshot any DPS you see that had a 5k+ hit. I bet its harder than it sounds.

 

My thread title is fine, you're just being obtuse. You're free to leave if all you have to offer is pointless comments that offer nothing. Honestly, the bulk of your responses here have been "nuh-uh, you're making this up!"

 

You keep discounting my posts by saying I should somehow be able to magically wiggle my fingers and be back at full health, no problem. I can't do that, I'm stunned. Stuns are instant cast,they can't be prevented. It takes people time to realize that something is happening and with the current damage, it's too late to do anything about it by the time anybody realizes what's going on. In the example I posted, that first damage comes in and by the time I see it (especially thanks to lag, hooray!) I'm caught in a stun. If I'm lucky I might have gotten my shield or HoT off depending on what's available. Then I get two more damaging attacks on me while being unable to do anything. Now I'm so far behind I can't catch up, if I don't die already.

 

And maybe stuff hits you for 2500-4000 but consider also that you're a Merc. You guys wear heavy armor, don't you? I'm pretty sure a PT railshot is gonna hit you for the full 5k since that's 90% armor ignore, but others might be mitigated. For me, I get the full effect because all my armor is light. Stuff really is hitting me this hard.

 

I have no problem getting some screenshots to prove this because I know it's true, I see it every time I PvP. That said, if I post them, will you stop being an *** and accept that incoming damage is really this high?

[Never_Hesitate]

Because half the people in this thread seem to think 1 dps vs 1 healer = auto-win for dps.

 

No, it isn't like that, but the game hopefully isn't balanced on 1v1 when we only have 8v8 wzs.

And there is a sorc a freekill (or he just kites and doesn't heal).