Recruit vs. War Hero

[achrystie]

I wish all these non-mmorpg people would adapt instead of whine, and the only person who should "man up" is the op

 

So the choices are, endless hours of required play to earn your way through a frustrating and long gear grind, against players with a VAST difference in stats, that you may never reach the top of, or don't play at all, no middle ground, this just defines what MMO pvp IS and it can't be any other way?

 

Anyone who doesn't like it is a noob and a complainer, no matter how many MMO's they've played, and how much PVP they've done?

 

Clearly you demonstrate that MMO's are not for the thinking man. It makes me feel dumb by association, that I ever enjoy playing them. It's no wonder this genre often fails to meet expectations of game makers and players alike.

Edited July 5, 2012 by achrystie

[achrystie]

Then go play dota? Obviously RPG's are not your thing.

 

RPG = Role playing game, you are playing as a character.

 

So RPG's, by definition, have gross differences in gear in competitive play?

 

Wow, that's a new level of ignorance, thanks for sharing.

[bekkilyn]

Because why would I bother plodding through hundreds of losses to "eventually", be able to compete?

 

...

 

I don't get it, if you are so good, WHY DON"T YOU WANT TO FIGHT PEOPLE WHO HAVE A CHANCE OF BEATING YOU?

 

I truly don't understand how people can equate time invested with skill and actually take pride and interest in that.

Do these people sit around and think "I have HUGE amounts of free time, an active guild, and started playing 3 months before my competition, I'm an awesome player!" or are they just completely oblivious to how they've managed to succeed?

 

There are always going to be people who are better than you both in a game and in life. Does that mean you just give up, roll over, and die when you are given options (many for free) to improve your condition? If you don't enjoy playing with newer players in recruit gear in random queues, then make some friends who do ranked PvP and you will then always know your team. There's not a single thing in this game (barring something that might have been a one-time pre-order gift) that players have that you can't also get by doing the same as them. Your characters are currently better equipped than mine and yet I'm somehow not having all of these same problems competing as you seem to have, and I'm having a great time in the process, win or lose. Again, the main issue I've noticed is lack of teamwork that has very little to do with gear.

[CKNairb]

Take 1 person with Recruit gear

Take 1 person with WH gear with all augmented pieces.

 

And then talk about skill.. i don't know what BW was thinking. with all those augmented things, it's now very difficult for battlemasters as well.

im not talking about recruit..

 

seems like there have to be just certain brackets for: recruit/bm/wh. because the difference, also with all augments now, is just too horrible

 

you can augment any gear, not just WH.

[achrystie]

There are always going to be people who are better than you both in a game and in life. Does that mean you just give up, roll over, and die when you are given options (many for free) to improve your condition? If you don't enjoy playing with newer players in recruit gear in random queues, then make some friends who do ranked PvP and you will then always know your team. There's not a single thing in this game (barring something that might have been a one-time pre-order gift) that players have that you can't also get by doing the same as them. Your characters are currently better equipped than mine and yet I'm somehow not having all of these same problems competing as you seem to have, and I'm having a great time in the process, win or lose. Again, the main issue I've noticed is lack of teamwork that has very little to do with gear.

 

Being better at the game than me, is not the problem, nor is having better stuff, it's the RANGE of difference that one is expected to compete in, that is the problem.

If you think teamwork is the key issue to why you lose, then you are either very lucky to get groups with well geared people, fight against much weaker teams than I do, or are truly deluded in your observation of what is going on. Go challenge someone, of any class, to a duel, in your recruit gear, and they have War Hero,, you won't win, unless they are the worst player I've ever seen. Unless they are literally fat fingering the wrong button repeatedly, purchased all the wrong gear for their spec, or have the stupidest combination of talents I've ever seen, you will NOT win the fight, which is fine, the problem is:

If they have even the "smallest" amount of skill, you won't just lose, you won't even come close, they will hand you your *** in less than 5 seconds. This is absolute truth, no matter how good you are, what class you are, or what spec you are.

The final nail in the coffin is, even after this 35 hour slog to BM gear, you'll be only "marginally" better, particularly when playing against those that have fully augmented their gear, and swapped mods (as in bought even MORE PVP gear, by putting in MORE hours of time).

 

As far as "finding friends to play with", I don't have a regular schedule, and this has, in about 10 MMO's over the past 13 years, been nearly impossible in almost every case. Another instance, where your anecdotal "but it's so easy", does not apply to everyone (or probably the majority), and it wouldn't matter, if they designed the game to minimize the difference in competitiveness between gear sets. Then everyone could play and compete, have fun, and progress, without all the secondary requirements of massive time, complementary schedules, etc.

 

It doesn't have to be this way, and would still be fun, why do work so hard to defend it?

Is it just to argue for the sake of doing so?

[L-RANDLE]

Is the concept of an equal playing ground so hard to grasp ? Why do you think Guild Wars was such a succesful PvP franchise ?

 

Why do you think League Of Legends (it still sucks compared to Dota 2 which I play) is the most broadcasted game EVER ?

 

It's an e-sport (LoL is not, but Dota 2 is). Meaning, NOBODY has any advantage over anybody else. It's PURE SKILL.

 

SWTOR is not pure skill. It's time invested / grind based. Sure, some skill helps, but it's not a true PvP game.

 

 

 

 

Gear has nothing to do with it. I don't care about it.

 

But if it is so hard to understand for you people, I will put it this way.

 

Say I'm in full WH augmented (I'm in full BM now). What is the pleasure level of killing a recruit equipped player ?

 

NONE. NADA. ZIP.

 

But like I said, MMO players are such an uncompetetive bunch in general.

 

I do understand: SWTOR PvP isn't a level playing field.

The concept: Play

Result: Get Gear, Be "Equal"

 

The only problem is the "play" thing. Blame yourself for not having the time neccessary to play, instead of trying to get a dev to change it to make your life "easier". It's selfish and only benefits non geared people. Don't try to deny it.

 

Personally I like killing anyone on the opposite team, I don't give a shiz what gear you are wearing. I like winning warzones and being more effective, so I get the best setup available in the game. You blame others for doing such things saying they don't want competition, when you, in fact, lack any motivation to even get competitive because of some sense of self-importance, or that your sense of PvP is how everyone should feel. Again selfish...

 

Knowing it's about time investment (you are lacking in the MMO world BTW), and then complaining that it takes too long makes me ask one question. "Why are you still playing if this is such torture?". As PLO says sympathy=0

 

Truly competitve people don't care about what disadvantage they have (and actually learn more; when at a disadvantage). They work around it. Whatever it takes. You are not really trying to be competitve if you complain about gear...

[bekkilyn]

Being better at the game than me, is not the problem, nor is having better stuff, it's the RANGE of difference that one is expected to compete in, that is the problem.

If you think teamwork is the key issue to why you lose, then you are either very lucky to get groups with well geared people, fight against much weaker teams than I do, or are truly deluded in your observation of what is going on. Go challenge someone, of any class, to a duel, in your recruit gear, and they have War Hero,, you won't win, unless they are the worst player I've ever seen. Unless they are literally fat fingering the wrong button repeatedly, purchased all the wrong gear for their spec, or have the stupidest combination of talents I've ever seen, you will NOT win the fight, which is fine...

 

We're not out there attempting to win 1 vs. 1 duels, but instead working as a team to complete objectives. So while it is true I may not be able to win 1 vs. 1 against a better equipped player, but I can certainly help my team bring that player down if that player is an obstacle to our objective.

 

And yes, I've been in groups where we have been steamrolled by players who were vastly more equipped than we were and probably pre-made to boot, but the majority of the time, each side is composed of random PuG's with similar varying levels of equipment. While each player may not be evenly matched, each *team* is evenly matched. The difference between the win and the loss is indeed teamwork.

 

the problem is:

If they have even the "smallest" amount of skill, you won't just lose, you won't even come close, they will hand you your *** in less than 5 seconds. This is absolute truth, no matter how good you are, what class you are, or what spec you are.

The final nail in the coffin is, even after this 35 hour slog to BM gear, you'll be only "marginally" better, particularly when playing against those that have fully augmented their gear, and swapped mods (as in bought even MORE PVP gear, by putting in MORE hours of time).

 

As far as "finding friends to play with", I don't have a regular schedule, and this has, in about 10 MMO's over the past 13 years, been nearly impossible in almost every case. Another instance, where your anecdotal "but it's so easy", does not apply to everyone (or probably the majority), and it wouldn't matter, if they designed the game to minimize the difference in competitiveness between gear sets. Then everyone could play and compete, have fun, and progress, without all the secondary requirements of massive time, complementary schedules, etc.

 

It doesn't have to be this way, and would still be fun, why do work so hard to defend it?

Is it just to argue for the sake of doing so?

 

I enjoy having goals to strive for in a game. When I see someone who is vastly better equipped than me, I don't despair and think, "Oh no, I'll never catch up." If I get smooshed by someone who has obviously been playing longer, I don't walk away making excuses that I'd be like that too if I lived in my parent's basement and didn't have to hold down a job. I am instead inspired and motivated to improve. I'm also not competing with them so much as competing with myself. If I do better today than I did yesterday, then I'm happy. When I upgrade an item, I'm adding a more powerful tool to my toolbox, and that also makes me happy. I enjoy the random PuGs in the warzones because it's fun never knowing what you'll get and seeing if you can make the best of whatever combination happens. Easy PvP queues and character progression is all in place. What's not to like?

[grallmate]

I disappear for a few days and it turns into the thread I was hoping to avoid. Those with gear insulting those without gear.

 

I did that in mostly recruit gear, BM light saber, Rakata stim.adrenal and med pack

http://postimage.org/image/5rspxz1o3/

In this game in my team I outdpsed many full war hero players and also outhealed healers on my marauder, 77484 healing done on marauder is great number, 92 kills and only 5 deaths.

 

This game is not very gear dependent like others, skill and teamplay matters. If one team can focus fire by several dps one target popping buffs at the same time it will bring huge burst and melt opposing team regardless of gear. Gear matters in duels and the two team has both great teamplay.

 

Thank you to Roiz for actually trying it out. That screen shot was from a voidstar and your team absolutely steamrolled the other team, your kill/death stats and healing stats are great but your damage is very low (you've only averaged around 3.5k damage per kill). I can pull those stats out with a PvE geared DoT spec Sage on an otherwise good team but I agree that if you're team works well together you will do much better.

 

To clarify some things that seem to have been bought up several times: I have BM gear (full now). I am not whinging about how hard it is to get gear in this game, its easy, its just counter intuitive and boring to die repeatedly. Anyway, then you aren't PvPing. I am saying that the massive gear difference creates a barrier to entry for new lvl 50s. I'm not saying give out free gear, I am saying reduce the gear difference to encourage fresh 50s to PvP rather making them get steamrolled for 2 weeks to be competitive.

 

Yes regular PvPers should have an advantage over casuals and have something to show for their commitment. I totally agree with that, but that advantage should be smaller to encourage new lvl 50s to PvP. More PvPers means more queue pops and more games for everyone to play.

 

In regards to PvE gear, I can run HM FPs to get Columi gear, they're challenging when you hit 50 but their fun and you can see the progress you are making in them. You can also CHOOSE your difficulty while in PvP you don't. It could be walking into a SM 50 FP or it might be like your jumping into HM Denova depending on who you're up against.

[Darbon]

I'm currently enjoying sub-50 PvP a lot (even after 1.3 where Gunslinger was nerfed quite a bit). I'm already planning to roll another alt at 50 since I don't want to be blown to pieces.

 

Like others have mentioned, it's the other way around; what fun would it be to own Recruit people being in full augmented WH? It's like killing a pikeman with a tank.

 

If you look at the game design, it's still possible to have progression and long term reward system with cosmetic bonuses. It currently feels like there are 2 PvP games - 10-49 which is based on fun and skill, and 50 which s based on gear and frustration.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Darbon

[Pekish]

1-49 u convince urself u are skilled because u play with people that has seriously no clue

 

u get 50 and u are sure u have skill and when u get distroyed by people that actually pvp a lot and know what they are doing blame ONLY gears....

 

fine with me go back to 1-49 and keep up ur idea of beeing a pro...if that makes u happy

But trust me you are just lieing to urself

 

it's true u have no chance to win a full WH and Bioware do wrong having only 1 bracket at lvl 50

 

But on the other hand over 20 match in a populated server u dont fight only full group of WH... as you there are many recruit on the other team I count every single time i play solo at least 3 people badly geared in any team at any time

(some with worst the recruit green stuff mods blue lvl 46)

 

You are not the only one wearing recruit in all the servers

 

so please open ur eyes you just need to get better because let's be honest you are not all that.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Pekish

[Rogoo]

The only problem is the "play" thing. Blame yourself for not having the time neccessary to play, instead of trying to get a dev to change it to make your life "easier". It's selfish and only benefits non geared people. Don't try to deny it.

 

Actually it's probably because I have three characters at 50. You know, like Bioware encouraged me to.

 

when you, in fact, lack any motivation to even get competitive because of some sense of self-importance, or that your sense of PvP is how everyone should feel. Again selfish...

 

Look around the forums. Am I really the only person saying that the gear gap is way too big ? Check The Republic show on gamebreaker. They say the same.

 

Truly competitve people don't care about what disadvantage they have (and actually learn more; when at a disadvantage). They work around it. Whatever it takes. You are not really trying to be competitve if you complain about gear...

 

Wait ? What ? So your idea of competetive play is "one team gets guns, the other gets pitchforks. go and show them some spirit!" ?

 

And don't even get me started about Pyros/Marauders.

[L-RANDLE]

Actually it's probably because I have three characters at 50. You know, like Bioware encouraged me to.

 

 

 

Look around the forums. Am I really the only person saying that the gear gap is way too big ? Check The Republic show on gamebreaker. They say the same.

 

 

 

Wait ? What ? So your idea of competetive play is "one team gets guns, the other gets pitchforks. go and show them some spirit!" ?

 

And don't even get me started about Pyros/Marauders.

 

Pitchforks don't run out of ammo.

[Rogoo]

Pitchforks don't run out of ammo.

 

You got me.