Don't let 1.3 full you commandos. We are still 25% nerfed from 1.2.

[Dayrun]

I don't want the community to lose focus that Bioware has not addressed the 25% nerf we got in 1.2. We still need answers from 1.2 and they were hoping that 1.3 would distract us.

[CaptainCore]

I am sure you are right.

I don't understand why they nerfed us. But we are a damage class however assault Vanguard are twice more powerful than Assault Commando now.

 

And sorry It's not a skill issue. I have never seen a Commando with more than 500K damage in a warzone since 1.2

Edited June 30, 2012 by CaptainCore

[ArchangelLBC]

From a PVE DPS perspective I disagree. I think the 1.3 changes have gone a long ways towards redressing the nerfs in 1.2, while actually going a long way towards achieving the goals they SAID they had with 1.2.

 

The changes to Gravity Surge mean that grav round is less important since you can very easily get 5 stacks of charged barrel within the 15s time frame, which helps the buff to CoF procs be more fully realized. The changes to ammo regen have vastly helped our ammo management, yes even for people who already had a high crit rate before, and with fully augmented gear it is not hard at all to get Grav Round back to it's pre 1.2 damage, or pretty close. Not to mention that the Armor Penetration buff to FA and HiB have made both of those abilities hit very hard. 4200 crits on HiB and 3k crits on FA are easily achievable even on operations bosses, which is nothing but gravy for our DPS.

 

Now you might say that without those changes in 1.2 we'd be hitting even harder on grav round and that's true, but then we'd probably be over powered.

 

They said in 1.2 that they wanted to shift our damage away from Grav Round without hurting the bottom line. They did this by buffing Demo Round and increasing CoF procs.

 

This was completely undone when they "fixed" Demo Round which I, and every other gunnery commando had to be pretty mad about, and the changes to CoF and FA did create ammo issues for some. They'd basically nerfed one area without really compensating in another area

 

Now they've buffed the damage of FA and HiB and given us a much more consistent regen rate, as well as giving us quicker stacks of Charged Barrel, to fully take advantage of those changes and in my opinion this finally given us the other half of the changes from 1.2.

 

I personally feel like I've gone from being carried by a very nice guild to finally being able to pull my full weight in places like HM EC

[EchoFTD]

I wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you guys, Bioware still has yet to even acknowledge the fact that Deadly cannon isn't applying the crit bonus to Full Auto.

[ArchangelLBC]

That's my only complaint really that I still have =/

 

 

 

That and our utter lack of utility in PVP

[azhrione]

That's my only complaint really that I still have =/

 

 

 

That and our utter lack of utility in PVP

 

Getting Deadly Cannon fixed is going to require a campaign. We need actual logs showing it doesn't work in 1.3.

 

Easiest say to test this is to get an empty Orange Cannon, strip naked, and only have talents up to Grav Round. Do nothing but Full Auto for 10 minutes. Every 15 seconds, Full Auto on a dummy.

 

Then put two points into Deadly Cannon and do it again for 10 minutes.

 

Screenshot and video both tests and results.

 

Then spam every single relevant board here until they acknowledge the problem.

[ArchangelLBC]

For that matter how sure are we that it's not working?

 

I know for a fact that I've hit over 3k crits on FA on Operations bosses, yet normal hits seem to top out in the mid 1600s. Now if deadly cannon wasn't working I would only be getting my normal 75% crit multiplier which would put my regular hits well into the 1700s.

 

That's all subjective though and going off memory that's a few days old so yeah it needs more testing, but still. Could they have ninja fixed it?

[Freeborne]

From a PVE DPS perspective I disagree. I think the 1.3 changes have gone a long ways towards redressing the nerfs in 1.2, while actually going a long way towards achieving the goals they SAID they had with 1.2.

 

 

I think we still feel nerfed in 1.3 because, aside from the tweaks, we also lost stacking armor debuffs. Groups with Scoundrels, Knights, and Commando's aren't hitting as quite as hard as they were before because of this.

 

I'm not saying they shouldn't have changed how stacking debuffs work...but it has certainly effected some groups more than others.

[Gyronamics]

I think we still feel nerfed in 1.3 because, aside from the tweaks, we also lost stacking armor debuffs. Groups with Scoundrels, Knights, and Commando's aren't hitting as quite as hard as they were before because of this.

 

I'm not saying they shouldn't have changed how stacking debuffs work...but it has certainly effected some groups more than others.

 

Wrong, commandos are hitting harder than in 1.2.

 

With augments, relics and talent changes 1.3 is a dps buff.

 

It's a dps buff to everyone but commandos are included.

 

Tell me this was possible in 1.2 for example: http://www.fryingtime.com/?filename=combat_2012-07-02_15_48_37_156250.txt

[ArchangelLBC]

I think we still feel nerfed in 1.3 because, aside from the tweaks, we also lost stacking armor debuffs. Groups with Scoundrels, Knights, and Commando's aren't hitting as quite as hard as they were before because of this.

 

I'm not saying they shouldn't have changed how stacking debuffs work...but it has certainly effected some groups more than others.

 

 

The thing with that is that it affected EVERY DPS class that wasn't reliant on internal or elemental damage, and so I consider that a seperate issue.

 

Plus, as mentioned, with everyone now having access to Augment slots on every piece of gear, the much higher DPS afforded naturally by being able to add 252 Aim/Power/Crit rating mostly balances this out I feel.

 

For myself, I raid 8 man, and in HM EC the other DPS in my half of the raid was a gunslinger. I notice that my Grav Rounds and Demo Rounds are hitting about the same, no noticable increase or decrease, and that my FAs and HiBs are hitting MUCH harder, most likely because they actually now have 10% Armor Penetration than they used to have (they're receiving 30% from talents as opposed to 20% from GS debuff).

 

My personal experience is that of a straight buff, though the massive stat buff everyone got is certainly mitigated by the loss of armor debuffs stacking.

 

It'd be interesting to hear other's experiences who maybe are used to raiding 16 man, or raiding 8 man on tier 1 raids where you can almost always have the DPS you want on the enemy, but if I were a betting man I'd say that if you were raiding with just your armor debuff (for some very strange reason, lots of sentinals and sages as DPS maybe?) then you received a nice buff, if you were used to having only 2 armor debuffs on the enemy then you received a very slight buff overall, and if you were used to having 3 or more debuffs on the enemy then your groups overall DPS has dropped to a certain degree (mostly whether or not your group has managed to fully augment themselves yet, though even then you might still be seeing a slight damage nerf raid wide.)

[ArchangelLBC]

Hey so turns out they are aware that Deadly Cannon and the mirror merc ability aren't working right with Full Auto/Unload and are supposedly working to fix it.

 

Thank you for the reports about Deadly Cannon and Target Tracking, everyone! We're aware of this issue and are working on a fix for it.

[Freeborne]

Wrong, commandos are hitting harder than in 1.2.

 

 

and

 

 

 

The thing with that is that it affected EVERY DPS class that wasn't reliant on internal or elemental damage, and so I consider that a seperate issue.

 

 

 

You people need to learn what the word "feels" means.

[ArchangelLBC]

and

 

 

 

 

 

You people need to learn what the word "feels" means.

 

 

And I had an overlengthy post basically explaining that I don't feel nerfed and explaining why our feelings might legitimately differ (i.e. always having more than 2 debuffs vs rarely having more than 2 debuffs).

 

But I agree I might have been unclear so let me clarify: I feel nothing but buffed after 1.3 even though I know that at best its a net buff with a variety of nerfs and buffs and general balancing crap going around.

[Gyronamics]

You people need to learn what the word "feels" means.

 

Who is going to change anything based on what someone *feels* compared to hard numbers saying you are in fact hitting harder post 1.3

 

Good grief. You want to counter a fact with a feeling?

[HileyQuiggley]

Gunnery Trooper here, I feel things are pretty good at the moment. I nearing 2400 Aim and finally back to feeling powerfull.

 

Grav is hitting as hard as pre 1.2 (3300)

FA hits harder it seems (1900-2800)

HIB hits harder (4200)

Demo hits less in my opinion (5200)

 

^Crits of course^

 

All in all its a boost for me from pre 1.2 so im finally pleased. Now if only we could handle PvP a little better, a new defensive anyone?

 

Buffed/Stimmed: 2400 Aim, 550 pwr, 40% crit, 75% Surge, 100% accuracy

[Freeborne]

Who is going to change anything based on what someone *feels* compared to hard numbers saying you are in fact hitting harder post 1.3

 

Good grief. You want to counter a fact with a feeling?

 

My post, in now way, shape, or form, said they should change anything.

 

My post merely indicated that I can see how people would feel nerfed. The numbers popping up for some groups will be smaller simply because they have less armor penetration.

 

Yes, this "nerf" affected everyone. That doesn't change the fact that individuals are seeing small numbers, and so might FEEL like they're doing less damage. It's an observation, not an argument for buffs.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Freeborne

[Freeborne]

Gunnery Trooper here, I feel things are pretty good at the moment. I nearing 2400 Aim and finally back to feeling powerfull.

 

Grav is hitting as hard as pre 1.2 (3300)

FA hits harder it seems (1900-2800)

HIB hits harder (4200)

Demo hits less in my opinion (5200)

 

^Crits of course^

 

All in all its a boost for me from pre 1.2 so im finally pleased. Now if only we could handle PvP a little better, a new defensive anyone?

 

Buffed/Stimmed: 2400 Aim, 550 pwr, 40% crit, 75% Surge, 100% accuracy

 

I did Nightmare KP a couple nights ago, my numbers are about the same.

 

However, there was a vanguard in the group, and a sentinel--all three of us were pretty much neck and neck for DPS through MOX the whole night.

 

They weren't as geared as I was though. (each still a couple rakata shy of a full set.).

 

So, a part of me wants to say I"m not *quite* happy yet. But I think this is just the Deadly Cannon bug. 30% increased damage to my Full Auto and Demo Rounds would have changed the results greatly.

[HileyQuiggley]

I did Nightmare KP a couple nights ago, my numbers are about the same.

 

However, there was a vanguard in the group, and a sentinel--all three of us were pretty much neck and neck for DPS through MOX the whole night.

 

They weren't as geared as I was though. (each still a couple rakata shy of a full set.).

 

So, a part of me wants to say I"m not *quite* happy yet. But I think this is just the Deadly Cannon bug. 30% increased damage to my Full Auto and Demo Rounds would have changed the results greatly.

 

I use SWMonitor with the rest of the guys and im always way above anyone else after an OP. A Shadow coming in second all the time followed by 2 Sents. I really wish we had another Commando dps. So far Ive never been beaten in DPS for PvE. Used to be the same for PvP pre 1.2, retired since then from that mess.

[SafeJungleFever]

I think I can chalk up almost everything I'm feeling to the ninja nerf on Demo Round back before 1.2 (which I doubt they're changing) and the Deadly Cannon failure. Overall, definitely a buff over 1.3 but still not anywhere near pre-nerf.

 

My guess is they'll silently get rid of deadly cannon and turn it into something else (useless) entirely.

[ArchangelLBC]

I dunno, sounds to me like they're looking to fix it.

 

 

My only worries is that once again they've balanced where we're at, not where we should be if all their skills were working correctly, which is exactly how they did things for 1.2, and once they fix deadly cannon they'll decide we're doing too much damage.

 

Also as far as I know, Deadly Cannon IS working with demo round (I see 2700 non crits and 5400 crits pretty regularly) so it's just the fix to FA they need.

[AngelConception]

 

Yep, Buff is needed -.-

[Gyronamics]

 

That's me ganking some noobs who were busy on their dailies and who didn't have their companions in Black Hole. I also popped my adrenal etc before jumping them. I'm so awesome.

 

That's what I thought you said.

[ArchangelLBC]

Just joined as a pick up DPS last night on Story mode denova. All gunnery commando DPS.

 

Never seen the tanks, the minefield droids, or the baraddium bombers on kephess drop so quickly.

 

Now to be fair that's story mode denova, and it seemed we were all in basically blackhole modded rakata, but I would have felt just as confident taking that group of DPS into Hard Mode Denova.

 

Point is, if we're still 25% nerfed from 1.2 then I'm not even sure it matters (though all reports indicate that we are in fact NOT 25% nerfed. I recently did a training dummy test and I was up 340 DPS over my pre-1.3 test.

[oaceen]

Wrong, commandos are hitting harder than in 1.2.

 

With augments, relics and talent changes 1.3 is a dps buff.

 

It's a dps buff to everyone but commandos are included.

 

Tell me this was possible in 1.2 for example: http://www.fryingtime.com/?filename=combat_2012-07-02_15_48_37_156250.txt

 

way to completely miss the point.

[Gyronamics]

way to completely miss the point.

 

You say there's a point worth muttering about.

 

I say I'm not delusional.

 

Don't take big fixes and "nerfs" personally. Just get over it and work with what it is.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Gyronamics