Sorc/Sage heals need to be returned to pre 1.2, other heals need buffs

[bellok]

Disregard. Edited July 6, 2012 by bellok

[bellok]

This is what I suggest needs to happen to increase survivability for sages/sorcs.

 

1. Put back in the old Resplendence system, instead of 100% chance to avoid a hit on health make it 75%. If after a while we determine that is too powerful still go down to 70%. So on and so forth until we find a proper balance.

 

2. Something has to give, not all of the significant heals should be channeled heals. 1 of the significant heals need to be instant. Whether it is Benevolence, or if you redesign restoration so that instead of 300-500 heal it does a 1500-2000 heal adding more force cost to it. You can also redesign Salvation so that it is instant cast but increasing the cooldown to the equivalent of the original cooldown+the cast time. If the salvation turns out to being too effective then you increase the cooldown even more until it is acceptable, but if you add time to the cooldown please do it in small increments until we find the balance.

 

This is all we need to do really. Redesign conveyance back to what it was, and make one of our channeled heals instant. It would greatly increase our survival.

 

Fixed. Orginally I said Conveyance, when I was meaning Resplendence. Sorry for the confusion.

[mangarrage]

I didnt read 38 pages of this but I think it is very safe to say you were god mode, and you got nerfed.

 

That is safe to say as it is a fact

 

Now you got nerfed, merc got nerfed dps ops got nerfed, but they didnt hit pyro or maurader it is because of them that the life expectancy for a healer is alot lower. They need to get adjusted down. Once that is done I think where you are will be fine.

Right now your nerf doesnt allow you to do your job competently enough since wz are filled with the 2 fotm and all the rerolls to the fotm made it worse

they need to get nerf batted badly and then see where you are

[Sylvan]

I think the vast majority of people complaining about healers needing a boost are people who don't have the pleasure of playing with good teams, in ranked or normal. It is rare to get a team that understands how to assist a healer, because lets be honest most people don't know what it is like being a healer so they can't understand.

 

As soon as the enemy team realize you are a good healer, you get 2/3 melee on you constantly. If your team doesn't respond with a gaurd, taunts and some dps support.

 

Yes, every heal wil get interupted.

Yes, you will die in seconds.

 

But that isn't because healing sucks, it's because your team sucks.

 

I just did a warzone 30 minutes ago where I didn't have a gaurd and my team didn't even bother to respond to my requests for help. I was getting focussed big time. I still managed 480k healing, well over 100k more than any dps or other healer. You need to make it work.

[bellok]

I think you are both wrong. I think the baddies from pre 1.2 complained about healers being too tough when really they should have learned to play their game. Which resulted in too heavy handed of a nerf. Edited July 6, 2012 by bellok

[bellok]

There were some op things about sages/sorcs due to the double dipping of deliverance, which was fixed in 1.2. However Bio(break)Ware decided to take things even further which were uncalled for.

[bellok]

I know, let's rotate every class and make them squishy for 1 week, and make it so that if they want to survive in a warzone they need to stay at the hip of some tank, and then we'll see how they like it. Edited July 6, 2012 by bellok

[CJNJ]

I know, let's rotate every class and make them squishy for 1 week, and make it so that if they want to survive in a warzone they need to stay at the hip of some tank, and then we'll see how they like it.

 

I fear that may go unheard, because the other classes can actually kill something

[bellok]

I fear that may go unheard, because the other classes can actually kill something

 

yeah, ur probably right.

[Boyana]

I think you are both wrong. I think the baddies from pre 1.2 complained about healers being too tough when really they should have learned to play their game. Which resulted in too heavy handed of a nerf.

 

Exactly.

I bet, half of those people who were complaining, if not all, are now playing Marauders and PT.

 

In my opinion, Sorc healers were just fine. It is a complete lie they were unkillable unless you had no idea how to read and interrupt the spell. It is not just the nerf that made us weak. It is also other classes being buffed as well as the damage in general.

1.2 Sorcer would do OK in today's rated warzones. Thing that had to be fixed was the healing bug. They said the reason for Sorcer nerf has been seen trough the informations they had but note: numbers taken during the bugged heals. If I am not wrong, that means they had wrong numbers and they nerfed us looking at wrong statistics.

[BurnsTwoThree]

Exactly.

I bet, half of those people who were complaining, if not all, are now playing Marauders and PT.

 

In my opinion, Sorc healers were just fine. It is a complete lie they were unkillable unless you had no idea how to read and interrupt the spell. It is not just the nerf that made us weak. It is also other classes being buffed as well as the damage in general.

1.2 Sorcerer would do OK in today's rated warzones. Thing that had to be fixed was the healing bug. They said the reason for Sorcerer nerf has been seen through the information they had but note: numbers taken during the bugged heals. If I am not wrong, that means they had wrong numbers and they nerfed us looking at wrong statistics.

Yeah which is why whoever said baby-steps w/ nerfs in this thread first originally had a very good point. The numbers we used to pull was through double-dipping a bugged class mechanic. What they should have originally done was simply fix it instead of short-sighted nerfs.

 

If PvP is continued to be maintained poorly I can see highly skilled people who do not have time/no urge to re-roll fotm classes just up and leave this game. There's plenty of MMO's that at least try to maintain a proper balance so that there's viability outside of 1-2 different compositions.

 

They need to stop catering to these FOTM bads and fix PvP asap.

[TheSkate]

I can't agree more with this. Healers should stop thinking they have somekind of an superior role then a DPS. Equally skilled healers shouldn't be able to outheal 2 equally skilled and geared DPS.

 

I don't think I have a superior role, I just want an equal role.

I know for a fact that an equally geared sorc healer can't outlast a single dps concentrating on them without help. As a healer in full WH gear I should be able to survive against ANY dps for at least a minute one-on-one. Why? Because I could never possibly kill them unless they are extremely stupid. EVER.

As it is I am lucky to stay alive 1v1 for 20 seconds while doing nothing but healing myself.

[TheSkate]

Force Speed- now removes all movement impairing effects and makes the caster immune to any movement impairing effects for 5 seconds.

 

IF this is truly how it is supposed to work it is broken as force speed does absolutely nothing against ANY movement impairment ability at this time.

[Majspuffen]

Damage needs to be lowered across the board, period.

 

I play as an operative healer and there is not a shadow of a doubt in my mind that operatives are the strongest of the three healers when it comes to pvp. Still, one good DPS can take me down on his own. I'm rank 90, got no Rated score to talk about since I haven't stepped into RWZ yet, but I do deem myself a good player. Yet, against a good pyrotech or a good deception assassin, I simply can't stay alive. They'll whittle me down... no, scratch that, there is -no- whittling in SWTOR pvp, it's a massive zergfest and even when I play as dps I don't find this enjoyable.

 

A pyrotech or a deception assassin will be able to burn me down on their own. My only chance for survival is to fight back, or have a tank. Guard makes all the difference in the world and this reliance on tanks feels more like a punishment. It's not fun to feel dependent on other classes.

 

On the topic at hand, I'd agree. Sorcerers definitely needs some defensive CD. Perhaps they could get Force Shroud shared with Assassins? As for mercs, I'd say they need mobility. I'd suggest they should be able to move and heal (at least with one heal) during supercharged gas/cell. As for operatives, I'd almost say that they should nerf us. Put a tiny cost on surgical probe, perhaps, like 5 energy or so. But not until they lower the damage. The time to kill in this game is retardedly low. I miss the pvp prior to 1.2 a lot, I actually played for fun back then. Now? Hard to say. I do have fun, at times, but more often than not pvp is just annoying. I don't like the changes 1.3 brought. The removal of burst was stupid. Burst has its place in pvp, but not while the sustained damage is so high that it is.

 

Lower the damage bonus from expertise. Please ...

Edited July 6, 2012 by Majspuffen

[Majspuffen]

Also, in response to some posts about fake casting;

 

I do use fake casting. I use Kolto Infusion in hopes that it will be interrupted. Best case scenario, it's interrupted and I can use Kolto Injection. Worst case scenario, it is not interrupted, I lose a charge of tactical advantage but still get healed. There is no risk of Kolto Injection being locked out.

 

Still, this is not enough. This is a generous form of fake casting and it's not enough. Prior to 1.2 I didn't use kolto infusion for fake casting since I could only have a two charges of tactical advantage. Back then I actually fake casted for real, by charging up kolto injection, interrupting the cast and then start casting again after the opponent has or hasn't used interrupt. Back then, there was time to heal like this. Today there isn't. There is barely enough time to heal anything. When you get focused, you can bid your party members farewell, there won't be enough GCDs to spare a single heal on them. And if you have guard? Then you'll spend your time healing yourself and your tank, not being able to throw any heals around like we could prior to 1.2

 

That is why it's not fun being a healer at the moment. You don't want us to tank. Yet tanks is what we are. More so now than ever. Healing another person is the pvp equivalent of taunt.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Majspuffen

[BurnsTwoThree]

IF this is truly how it is supposed to work it is broken as force speed does absolutely nothing against ANY movement impairment ability at this time.

 

 

No, it was a suggestion to make it actually useful now that anybody with half a brain actually roots us.

[TheSkate]

Force Speed- now removes all movement impairing effects and makes the caster immune to any movement impairing effects for 5 seconds.

 

IF this is truly how it is supposed to work it is broken as force speed does absolutely nothing against ANY movement impairment ability at this time.

 

No, it was a suggestion to make it actually useful now that anybody with half a brain actually roots us.

 

I see. I misunderstood and thought that was something that had "happened" but wasn't working as intended. As a sorc healer I am often on edge about posts even though I know that your posts are pro "fix sorc healing" and I reacted without taking it into context of the rest of the post.

[BurnsTwoThree]

I

I see. I misunderstood and thought that was something that had "happened" but wasn't working as intended. As a sorc healer I am often on edge about posts even though I know that your posts are pro "fix sorc healing" and I reacted without taking it into context of the rest of the post.

 

Yeah, right now we need to minimize incoming damage through LoS due to the fact we have 0 defensive CD abilities.

Force Speed just doesn't cut it because people are smart enough to use their root/stuns etc. They know it is the only thing that is going to keep us alive because of how easy it is to kill us now, no matter the skill level.

[Sylvan]

I think we all know Bioware went too far in how they nerfed Sorc/Sage healers. Their precious metrics might say otherwise but we know better.

 

They were right to nerf our infinite use of noble sacrifice and they were right to nerf/fix the double use of the conveyance buff. That is all they had to change. Instead, they really gimped our only good single cast heal. It was a mistake.

 

Ps, kinetic collapse, or whatever the skill is that lets our force shields explode and stun should be in the healing tree.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Sylvan

[Ntranced]

I think we all know Bioware went too far in how they nerfed Sorc/Sage healers. Their precious metrics might say otherwise but we know better.

 

They were right to nerf our infinite use of noble sacrifice and they were right to nerf/fix the double use of the conveyance buff. That is all they had to change. Instead, they really gimped our only good single cast heal. It was a mistake.

 

Ps, kinetic collapse, or whatever the skill is that lets our force shields explode and stun should be in the healing tree.

 

I'd agree with all of that. In particular all the sorc/sage trees need a revision. It really should be simple - put the majority of the utility in the healing tree, beef up the damage in madness and completely revise lightning.

 

Ultimately though Bioware arrogance means their statistics are more accurate then the people who play multiple classes, have hands on experience and spend hours each day trying to even out the kinks and smooth over the weaknesses.

 

Just for once I'd like to see BW put a rated team up on each server (they don't need to say who is playing the chars, we could spare their blushes) of how they think the game is played. I'd bet this years income they would be demolished.

[Feztonio]

it's just going to make folks not want to heal. i can heal and have a headache and hate playing the toon.. or i can dps and have fun. if i decide to dps and have fun the rest of you have one less healer on your team or in your que for a dungeon.

 

in the end by making tanks and dps easy mode and healing a pain in the Asssss most healers will just take the path of least resistance and roll dps.

 

so good luck with the lack of heals

[BurnsTwoThree]

it's just going to make folks not want to heal. i can heal and have a headache and hate playing the toon.. or i can dps and have fun. if i decide to dps and have fun the rest of you have one less healer on your team or in your que for a dungeon.

in the end by making tanks and dps easy mode and healing a pain in the Asssss most healers will just take the path of least resistance and roll dps.

 

so good luck with the lack of heals

 

The first character I began to level in this game was a Sentinel but I am a career healer. I am a healer in WoW and anything far from average in that game. I am far from average in this game too. I used to go a whole week without getting outhealed and wouldn't ever get outhealed by anybody except for 1-2 other guys that were easily on par with me.

 

Sorcerers went from a fun near balanced class where I could get on and do WZs all day and not get bored (especially with the amount of Huttball pops). Now if I want to have fun I either have to level another character, switch to DPS, or just hope that I get Huttball so grinding WZs or RWZs isn't boring as hell.

[Oobob]

The first character I began to level in this game was a Sentinel but I am a career healer. I am a healer in WoW and anything far from average in that game. I am far from average in this game too. I used to go a whole week without getting outhealed and wouldn't ever get outhealed by anybody except for 1-2 other guys that were easily on par with me.

 

Sorcerers went from a fun near balanced class where I could get on and do WZs all day and not get bored (especially with the amount of Huttball pops). Now if I want to have fun I either have to level another character, switch to DPS, or just hope that I get Huttball so grinding WZs or RWZs isn't boring as hell.

 

the saddest part about this is that most career healers are thinking the same thing (healing since anarchy online, includes WOW and warhammer).

 

i tried leveling an op, i'm like level 25, i'm just going to go play something else. this is gonna kill raid content. i've healed to gear up so many new people in raid content that i'm sure the campaign drops will suffer.

 

part of that is how bad the healers are in this game, which is why a lot of them don't fully understand the class mechanics at endgame and extrapolate from pug wzs to ranked or between healing classes. i can count on one finger the number of healers who cleanse the tank in hm denova on toth and zorn/minesweeper that i've teamed with - despite me telling them to do it and reminding them through the fight - and we've been 4/4 hm denova since immediately after they fixed the kephess bug (where the circle instakilled). we've been 3/4 since week 1 or 2 after release i believe.

 

it's really hilarious how bad the pvp balance is, the damage in pvp is so much higher than in end game raids that with trauma and expertise scaling i can only laugh at how healing works.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Oobob

[Boyana]

 

Lower the damage bonus from expertise. Please ...

 

If the damage was lower, time to kill the target would be longer and PvP would feel like the real, fun battle.

 

Sorcerers went from a fun near balanced class where I could get on and do WZs all day and not get bored (especially with the amount of Huttball pops). Now if I want to have fun I either have to level another character, switch to DPS, or just hope that I get Huttball so grinding WZs or RWZs isn't boring as hell.

 

it's just going to make folks not want to heal. i can heal and have a headache and hate playing the toon.. or i can dps and have fun

 

 

 

Yes. Exactly. I just realized this will be the 4th day without me doing Rated Warzones while pvping on my sniper and assassin alt. Questioning myself, am I quitting my Sorc.

[BurnsTwoThree]

If the damage was lower, time to kill the target would be longer and PvP would feel like the real, fun battle.

 

Yes. Exactly. I just realized this will be the 4th day without me doing Rated Warzones while pvping on my sniper and assassin alt. Questioning myself, am I quitting my Sorc.

 

I'm not questioning myself whether I'm quitting my Sorc or not. I'll play him until I decide it is time to unsubscribe but I will end up leveling my other characters a bit too.

 

To be honest my current WoW subscription runs out in 4 days, so depending on how useless they decide to make this upcoming patch on 7/10/12; it will be the decider on whether I stay or go back to WoW and wait for Pandaria.

 

Tired of mediocre kiddies playing fotm classes getting all the love. Find balance so other classes are viable.