Sorc/Sage heals need to be returned to pre 1.2, other heals need buffs

[BurnsTwoThree]

I actively and strongly believe that healers have nowhere near as much utility as they should have.

A Sad Reality

Here's the issue. We have Ranked PvP now, and the game play has switched from forced casual to competitive. What we were given was PvP that was balanced around casual players queuing up for Random Warzones getting grouped up with Random players some of which are geared, and others who are not. The same thing could be said for the skill level of players. Most of the time you would not go against two pre-made groups at the same time while being put on a team with two pre-mades. With the amount of damage that most spec/class combinations have healers are severely gimped (from nerfs and lack of buffs to the non-sorc healing classes). What we're (healers with a decent amount of competence) seeing is that healers cannot put out numbers or be utilized in a way that makes them useful in Ranked Warzones. Healers were completely taken out of the equation (but not completely useless) with 2 geared/skilled DPS on them pre-1.2 but post 1.2 one DPS with the same gear/skill level can take a single healer out of the equation without leaving them much room to be useful to your seven other team mates.

 

Current Situation

What healers are as of right now are meat shields so that DPS can stay alive and watch objectives. This game has way too many CC's and way too many classes that can hit for 20-30%~ of a healers health pool for the weak, resource intensive and slow casting heals that are given to us. Sentinels alone can interrupt 3-4 casts in a row without intervention of a friendly DPS. Getting away from a DPS is not possible like it used to be as casting Force Slow on someone is a valuable waste of a GCD that usually is negated by one of the many CC abilities that DPS classes have.

 

Playing objectives should be a huge indication of whether a healer is good or not, similar to if a DPS can

CC correctly, play the objectives and kill healers. But healers cannot waste the GCD's to help DPS keep people off of nodes and rarely can free cast on a ball carrier if need be. Not to say that a player can NEVER do the things that should define them as someone above exceptional but we're so severely weak and squishy that it has been made near impossible to do it well. Healers SHOULD NOT REQUIRE GUARD TO LIVE THROUGH 2 PEOPLE.

 

 

So let's discuss the situation of healers.

 

Sorcerers/Sage need more survivability, better heals and more utility. Something along the lines of a binding heal would be nice.

 

Smugglers/Ops need a lot more utility in the way of being able to get away from DPS, I'd also like to see a better AoE heal.

 

Commando/Merc Healing needs a resource reduction and defensive CDs for the rest of the group. They should be the Holy Paladins of SWTOR. Give them a sacrifice, give them something that reduces/immune movement impairing effects.

 

All in all I do not see healers being able to compete against War Hero geared groups with coordinated DPS. Peels and CC isn't enough to keep healers from slaughtered.

 

 

Healers should not need pocket healers or permanent guards.

 

How it seems to go in ranked pvp.

Me: "Hello enemy guys I am a healer!"

You have been interrupted 12 times in a row and piled by all 8 members of the other team. You have been crit instantaneously for 35k damage and have died 2.5 times over. Would you like to respawn?

 

Solution? Keep healing intuitive but not too strong. However, healers should have some pretty decent ability to stay alive to compensate for their selfless job.

 

In ranked yesterday there were 5 times in which ALL of my heals were unusable because they had been interrupted. The new job of a healer, it seems, is to distract and lure away

Edited June 28, 2012 by BurnsTwoThree

[Stavroz]

I actively and strongly believe that healers have nowhere near as much utility as they should have.

A Sad Reality

Here's the issue. We have Ranked PvP now, and the game play has switched from forced casual to competitive. What we were given was PvP that was balanced around casual players queuing up for Random Warzones getting grouped up with Random players some of which are geared, and others who are not. The same thing could be said for the skill level of players. Most of the time you would not go against two pre-made groups at the same time while being put on a team with two pre-mades. With the amount of damage that most spec/class combinations have healers are severely gimped (from nerfs and lack of buffs to the non-sorc healing classes). What we're (healers with a decent amount of competence) seeing is that healers cannot put out numbers or be utilized in a way that makes them useful in Ranked Warzones. Healers were completely taken out of the equation (but not completely useless) with 2 geared/skilled DPS on them pre-1.2 but post 1.2 one DPS with the same gear/skill level can take a single healer out of the equation without leaving them much room to be useful to your seven other team mates.

 

Current Situation

What healers are as of right now are meat shields so that DPS can stay alive and watch objectives. This game has way too many CC's and way too many classes that can hit for 20-30%~ of a healers health pool for the weak, resource intensive and slow casting heals that are given to us. Sentinels alone can interrupt 3-4 casts in a row without intervention of a friendly DPS. Getting away from a DPS is not possible like it used to be as casting Force Slow on someone is a valuable waste of a GCD that usually is negated by one of the many CC abilities that DPS classes have.

 

Playing objectives should be a huge indication of whether a healer is good or not, similar to if a DPS can

CC correctly, play the objectives and kill healers. But healers cannot waste the GCD's to help DPS keep people off of nodes and rarely can free cast on a ball carrier if need be. Not to say that a player can NEVER do the things that should define them as someone above exceptional but we're so severely weak and squishy that it has been made near impossible to do it well. Healers SHOULD NOT REQUIRE GUARD TO LIVE THROUGH 2 PEOPLE.

 

 

So let's discuss the situation of healers.

 

Sorcerers/Sage need more survivability, better heals and more utility. Something along the lines of a binding heal would be nice.

 

Smugglers/Ops need a lot more utility in the way of being able to get away from DPS, I'd also like to see a better AoE heal.

 

Commando/Merc Healing needs a resource reduction and defensive CDs for the rest of the group. They should be the Holy Paladins of SWTOR. Give them a sacrifice, give them something that reduces/immune movement impairing effects.

 

All in all I do not see healers being able to compete against War Hero geared groups with coordinated DPS. Peels and CC isn't enough to keep healers from slaughtered.

 

The incoming damage was stupid in 1.2

 

It is now unplayable in 1.3 as a sage/sorc

 

In 1.2 sure jugs could relic up and adrenal and hit me for 6k+ once every 3min now with the increase to dmg across the board b/c of more augment slots and passive power on relics they can do 5k+ without fail every 12 seconds.

 

Do the math 5k+ every 12 seconds or 6k every 3min. The consistent dmg is far more devastating.

 

Full WH augmented sage 1332 experise.

[ProfessorWalsh]

I actively and strongly believe that healers have nowhere near as much utility as they should have.

A Sad Reality

Here's the issue. We have Ranked PvP now, and the game play has switched from forced casual to competitive. What we were given was PvP that was balanced around casual players queuing up for Random Warzones getting grouped up with Random players some of which are geared, and others who are not. The same thing could be said for the skill level of players. Most of the time you would not go against two pre-made groups at the same time while being put on a team with two pre-mades. With the amount of damage that most spec/class combinations have healers are severely gimped (from nerfs and lack of buffs to the non-sorc healing classes). What we're (healers with a decent amount of competence) seeing is that healers cannot put out numbers or be utilized in a way that makes them useful in Ranked Warzones. Healers were completely taken out of the equation (but not completely useless) with 2 geared/skilled DPS on them pre-1.2 but post 1.2 one DPS with the same gear/skill level can take a single healer out of the equation without leaving them much room to be useful to your seven other team mates.

 

Current Situation

What healers are as of right now are meat shields so that DPS can stay alive and watch objectives. This game has way too many CC's and way too many classes that can hit for 20-30%~ of a healers health pool for the weak, resource intensive and slow casting heals that are given to us. Sentinels alone can interrupt 3-4 casts in a row without intervention of a friendly DPS. Getting away from a DPS is not possible like it used to be as casting Force Slow on someone is a valuable waste of a GCD that usually is negated by one of the many CC abilities that DPS classes have.

 

Playing objectives should be a huge indication of whether a healer is good or not, similar to if a DPS can

CC correctly, play the objectives and kill healers. But healers cannot waste the GCD's to help DPS keep people off of nodes and rarely can free cast on a ball carrier if need be. Not to say that a player can NEVER do the things that should define them as someone above exceptional but we're so severely weak and squishy that it has been made near impossible to do it well. Healers SHOULD NOT REQUIRE GUARD TO LIVE THROUGH 2 PEOPLE.

 

 

So let's discuss the situation of healers.

 

Sorcerers/Sage need more survivability, better heals and more utility. Something along the lines of a binding heal would be nice.

 

Smugglers/Ops need a lot more utility in the way of being able to get away from DPS, I'd also like to see a better AoE heal.

 

Commando/Merc Healing needs a resource reduction and defensive CDs for the rest of the group. They should be the Holy Paladins of SWTOR. Give them a sacrifice, give them something that reduces/immune movement impairing effects.

 

All in all I do not see healers being able to compete against War Hero geared groups with coordinated DPS. Peels and CC isn't enough to keep healers from slaughtered.

 

The problem here is a philosophical one not a real one.

 

Healers were completely taken out of the equation (but not completely useless) with 2 geared/skilled DPS on them pre-1.2 but post 1.2 one DPS with the same gear/skill level can take a single healer out of the equation without leaving them much room to be useful to your seven other team mates.

 

First of all... Why should a Healer be better than a DPS? Why should we need 2 DPS to take one healer out of the picture? They are one class. We are one class. Why should DPS be relegated to an ancillary role? If 1 Healer = 2 DPS then 2 Healers = 4 DPS, 3 Healers = 6 DPS, 4 Healers = 8 DPS or a full ops group.

 

Then Add tanks to the mix. Suddenly every Warzone group is running:

2 DPS, 2 Tank, 4 Healers and all matches end up being mostly stalemates until one team scores.

 

Enter a game with less than 4 Healers and you instantly gimp yourself by giving the enemy a chance to realistically kill someone on your team.

 

1 Healer = 1 DPS - It is simple, and fine because you still have cross healing and tanks.

 

It makes sense too a every single advanced class in the game can be a DPSer.

 

8 can be DPS

3 can be Healer

3 can be Tanks

 

There logically would be more DPS than healers in Warzones.

 

When 1 Healer = 2 DPS the game becomes all about the healers. There is no strategy other than "Stun as many enemy healers as you can and focus fire the remaining one down."

 

Right now a Healer can turn the tide of any fight. They have a tremendous impact on the battle. They, however, shouldn't be the most important cog in the machine. They are just a cog, no better, or worse, than any other cog.

 

Also hold on...

 

Sentinels alone can interrupt 3-4 casts in a row without intervention of a friendly DPS. Getting away from a DPS is not possible like it used to be as casting Force Slow on someone is a valuable waste of a GCD that usually is negated by one of the many CC abilities that DPS classes have.

 

No Sentinel is doing that and still doing any DPS.

 

Sentinels have 2 true interrupts.

1. Force Leap (Which only Watchmen can use at close range.)

2. Force Kick (Which is our default.)

 

We have Force Stasis, which is a 3 second stun that stuns us too and we have Awe.

 

Awe and Stasis are on long cool downs and in melee combat only one spec of Sentinel can Force Leap. So most Sentinels have usually 1 "interrupt" and it is a rare moment when they will have all of their abilities off cooldown.

 

By the same token how many knock backs, stuns, and/or mezzes do you have?

Edited June 27, 2012 by ProfessorWalsh

[RickyChavez]

How it seems to go in ranked pvp.

Me: "Hello enemy guys I am a healer!"

You have been interrupted 12 times in a row and piled by all 8 members of the other team. You have been crit instantaneously for 35k damage and have died 2.5 times over. Would you like to respawn?

[ProfessorWalsh]

How it seems to go in ranked pvp.

Me: "Hello enemy guys I am a healer!"

You have been interrupted 12 times in a row and piled by all 8 members of the other team. You have been crit instantaneously for 35k damage and have died 2.5 times over. Would you like to respawn?

 

Do you really think it is any different for anyone else?

 

I'm a Sentinel. Usually the enemy team realizes this and makes me a priority target when I go after their healer. You don't know how many times I have done a Force Leap only to be stunned and dead before I could react. Everyone has that happen to them.

[Helig]

I do believe that target marking needs to go in Warzones. Getting a mark as a healer is pretty much a death sentence. The only way I can exploit it is drawing enemy players away from objectives. One of the reasons I run a Balance Sage instead of Seer, as I originally planned.

 

As far as actual in-game balance goes, I don't think a healer is supposed to tank half of the enemy team for extended periods of time. He should be able to hold 1 damage-dealing player of equal gear and ability for a long time (resulting in a stalemate, basically), but he should not freely tank two or more- he should be running low on resources, and he should be eventually overcome.

 

Do you really think it is any different for anyone else?

 

I'm a Sentinel. Usually the enemy team realizes this and makes me a priority target when I go after their healer. You don't know how many times I have done a Force Leap only to be stunned and dead before I could react. Everyone has that happen to them.

 

Err, don't open with Leap? I rarely do on my Guardian and Marauder, both (Vigilance Guardian is a slightly different story, thanks to Unremitting - it's more of a tactical decision, but the general rule applies). After you leap, you'll probably get knocked back and\or rooted, and you'd likely have to use Camo to close in without being vulnerable.

 

Second, don't charge into thick melee. If you have to, charge flanks, eliminate healers and ranged damage-dealers who partly hide behind pillars to avoid being targetted outright.

 

Also, as a Marauder, I use plain-looking (but fully PvP-socketed) vibroblades. You'd be surprised how much less attention they draw, compared to lightsabers. Plain black robes go without question (using the ones I got in my very first Black Talon run - now augmented).

Edited June 27, 2012 by Helig

[BurnsTwoThree]

First of all... Why should a Healer be better than a DPS?

 

What do you mean by "better"?

 

The only way a healer can be "better" than a DPS is if the healer is putting out more damage.

 

What I am saying is that realistically we cannot heal through the amount of damage that is being put out, especially not against teams with gear and good coordination. There needs to be a buff to bring balance back so that healers can actually do that one thing... that thing that you know... restores health... I haven't been able to do it in a while.. I think it's called healing but I dunno. Healing pre-1.2 was actually fun to do and made the game exciting because you could tell Ranked Warzones were going to be decided by how well your team worked together to keep the healers alive because they were valuable. Now healers die in full PvP gear as fast as they should if they were to step into a WZ with none.

Edited June 27, 2012 by BurnsTwoThree

[silvershadez]

The problem here is a philosophical one not a real one.

 

 

 

First of all... Why should a Healer be better than a DPS? Why should we need 2 DPS to take one healer out of the picture? They are one class. We are one class. Why should DPS be relegated to an ancillary role? If 1 Healer = 2 DPS then 2 Healers = 4 DPS, 3 Healers = 6 DPS, 4 Healers = 8 DPS or a full ops group.

 

Then Add tanks to the mix. Suddenly every Warzone group is running:

2 DPS, 2 Tank, 4 Healers and all matches end up being mostly stalemates until one team scores.

 

Enter a game with less than 4 Healers and you instantly gimp yourself by giving the enemy a chance to realistically kill someone on your team.

 

1 Healer = 1 DPS - It is simple, and fine because you still have cross healing and tanks.

 

It makes sense too a every single advanced class in the game can be a DPSer.

 

8 can be DPS

3 can be Healer

3 can be Tanks

 

There logically would be more DPS than healers in Warzones.

 

When 1 Healer = 2 DPS the game becomes all about the healers. There is no strategy other than "Stun as many enemy healers as you can and focus fire the remaining one down."

 

Right now a Healer can turn the tide of any fight. They have a tremendous impact on the battle. They, however, shouldn't be the most important cog in the machine. They are just a cog, no better, or worse, than any other cog.

 

Also hold on...

 

 

 

No Sentinel is doing that and still doing any DPS.

 

Sentinels have 2 true interrupts.

1. Force Leap (Which only Watchmen can use at close range.)

2. Force Kick (Which is our default.)

 

We have Force Stasis, which is a 3 second stun that stuns us too and we have Awe.

 

Awe and Stasis are on long cool downs and in melee combat only one spec of Sentinel can Force Leap. So most Sentinels have usually 1 "interrupt" and it is a rare moment when they will have all of their abilities off cooldown.

 

By the same token how many knock backs, stuns, and/or mezzes do you have?

 

I can't agree more with this. Healers should stop thinking they have somekind of an superior role then a DPS. Equally skilled healers shouldn't be able to outheal 2 equally skilled and geared DPS.

[Darth_Philar]

A 1 Heal vs. 1 DPS fight of equally geared and skilled players should last infinity time.

 

DPS role = Do Damage

Heal role = Undo Damage

 

These two roles should cancel each other out leading to a stalemate.

 

As this is not the case for Sorcerers, they are UP despite BW's metrics (which test in a vacuum, where no one is beating on you). You see, a Sorc on the move cannot heal himself, and a healer who cannot heal himself will die in 1v1 every single time.

[silvershadez]

A 1 Heal vs. 1 DPS fight of equally geared and skilled players should last infinity time.

 

DPS role = Do Damage

Heal role = Undo Damage

 

These two roles should cancel each other out leading to a stalemate.

 

As this is not the case for Sorcerers, they are UP despite BW's metrics (which test in a vacuum, where no one is beating on you). You see, a Sorc on the move cannot heal himself, and a healer who cannot heal himself will die in 1v1 every single time.

 

Good sorc/sage healers will get their casts off. They have so much utility including sprint, range stun, slow, knockback + root.

 

Force armor (the shield) is kind of an heal too. It absorbs 3k+ damage. It just can't crit but can be used on the move too. All the other spells are on such a fast cast time that you have more then enough time to get them off in a 1 vs 1 situation vs an equally skilled / geared DPS if you combin them with your utilites and CC.

 

It's another story in group fights, but as allready said healers shouldn't be balanced on group fights just because DPS isn't balanced on group fights neither. Alot of factors determine whether you are succesfull or not in those fights.

[BurnsTwoThree]

Good sorc/sage healers will get their casts off. They have so much utility including sprint, range stun, slow, knockback + root.

 

Force armor (the shield) is kind of an heal too. It absorbs 3k+ damage. It just can't crit but can be used on the move too. All the other spells are on such a fast cast time that you have more then enough time to get them off in a 1 vs 1 situation vs an equally skilled / geared DPS if you combin them with your utilites and CC.

 

It's another story in group fights, but as allready said healers shouldn't be balanced on group fights just because DPS isn't balanced on group fights neither. Alot of factors determine whether you are succesfull or not in those fights.

I don't think any of this could be any further from the truth.

 

This game is riddled with CC. A Sorcerer healer does not simply just knockback and Force Speed away anymore. That's how it was pre-1.2 but the time spent using Force Speed and the knockback now is enough to kill you before you get away.

 

The bubble is so minimal now compared to the incoming damage that I've seen people take 1,000 damage through the bubble in War Hero gear.

 

Innervate/Healing Trance: The amount healed per tick in PvP combat is now at about less than 1k per tick if it doesn't crit which means it's very necessary to stack this with Resurgance/Rejuv.

 

Dark Heal/Benevolence: Heals for about 1200 non-crit and about 2.2k with a crit. This gets interrupted because it's one of the few ways we can actually attempt to keep you up. Sad thing is that we have to attempt to keep you up because we have no ways to actually do it even when free casting because our heals are garbage.

 

Dark Infusion/Benevolence: Easily one of the few things that killed this class was the fact that now it's always a 2+ second cast unless you pop a CD. We do not have1.3 sec cast time Dark Infusion/Benevolence. This was one of our most necessary heals and they completely took it out and gave us a near useless proc off Resurgance/Rejuv.

 

Reason being it was one of the heals we needed because you could fake cast or sacrifice a small Dark Heal so that you can free cast a fast Dark Infusion nice and fast. The problem with it was that we could cast it twice instead of just once like we were supposed to. So instead of fixing it, they decided to get rid of it completely and give us a near useless 30% Force Reduction.

 

Thanks, exactly what I needed.

[Uchoo]

When heals are too strong, dps classes without burst and tanks feel useless. Burst dps classes become the FOTM.

 

When heals don't feel like they are contributing, healers get bored and don't heal anymore.

 

Solution? Keep healing intuitive but not too strong. However, healers should have some pretty decent ability to stay alive to compensate for their selfless job.

[silvershadez]

I don't think any of this could be any further from the truth.

 

This game is riddled with CC. A Sorcerer healer does not simply just knockback and Force Speed away anymore. That's how it was pre-1.2 but the time spent using Force Speed and the knockback now is enough to kill you before you get away.

 

The bubble is so minimal now compared to the incoming damage that I've seen people take 1,000 damage through the bubble in War Hero gear.

 

Innervate/Healing Trance: The amount healed per tick in PvP combat is now at about less than 1k per tick if it doesn't crit which means it's very necessary to stack this with Resurgance/Rejuv.

 

Dark Heal/Benevolence: Heals for about 1200 non-crit and about 2.2k with a crit. This gets interrupted because it's one of the few ways we can actually attempt to keep you up. Sad thing is that we have to attempt to keep you up because we have no ways to actually do it even when free casting because our heals are garbage.

 

Dark Infusion/Benevolence: Easily one of the few things that killed this class was the fact that now it's always a 2+ second cast unless you pop a CD. We do not have1.3 sec cast time Dark Infusion/Benevolence. This was one of our most necessary heals and they completely took it out and gave us a near useless proc off Resurgance/Rejuv.

 

Reason being it was one of the heals we needed because you could fake cast or sacrifice a small Dark Heal so that you can free cast a fast Dark Infusion nice and fast. The problem with it was that we could cast it twice instead of just once like we were supposed to. So instead of fixing it, they decided to get rid of it completely and give us a near useless 30% Force Reduction.

 

Thanks, exactly what I needed.

 

It sounds like they changed the sage/sorc from the scratch in 1.3 when i read your post. Infact there wasn't made a single change within 1.3 specificly for sages/sorc.

Bubble just absorbs 1k damage? You serious?

 

All i add to your response is: good sorcs/sages don't have any problem with this class. Best PvP healers on my server are sages atm and we have plenty of good scoundrels and mercs.

 

It comes down to your movement and from reading your comment you obviously don't have it.

Edited June 27, 2012 by silvershadez

[BurnsTwoThree]

When heals are too strong, dps classes without burst and tanks feel useless. Burst dps classes become the FOTM.

 

When heals don't feel like they are contributing, healers get bored and don't heal anymore.

 

Solution? Keep healing intuitive but not too strong. However, healers should have some pretty decent ability to stay alive to compensate for their selfless job.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Healing in this state is not fun. Our contribution to the WZs and RWZs are less healing than it is CCing, Interrupting and using Pulls for (Sorc and Sage).

[Aetou]

They need to either tone down damage across the board (giving everyone an extra 400 power was not a good way to increase TTK and an extra 2k health does not offset that sufficiently) or increase healing. The first option would actually be better for the game, but temporarily reducing Trauma to 20% would be an easier interim solution.

[BurnsTwoThree]

It sounds like they changed the sage/sorc from the scratch in 1.3 when i read your post. Infact there wasn't made a single change within 1.3 specificly for sages/sorc.

Bubble just absorbs 1k damage? You serious?

 

All i add to your response is: good sorcs/sages don't have any problem with this class. Best PvP healers on my server are sages atm and we have plenty of good scoundrels and mercs.

 

It comes down to your movement and from reading your comment you obviously don't have it.

 

No, not absorbs 1k damage. Being reading impaired is a serious issue that you should get checked out. I said that I've seen people do 1,000 damage THROUGH the shield, meaning the damage was enough to eat the full absorb and still do 1,000 damage. We don't need to get into the whole "who's good" discussion, because I won't say I was the top healer but I was top 3 on my server. I can also guarantee if I kept playing past 1.2 and farmed out full War Hero by now I would be better than most of your Sorc/Sages. The other two were good friends of mine who also stopped playing because of the lack of rated's and the 1.2 nerfs.

 

Everything you throw at me makes me feel like you're one of those guys who couldn't kill healers before but now they are nerfed into the ground you actually stand a chance.

 

Come back at me when you know and have played the class.

Edited June 27, 2012 by BurnsTwoThree

[Wheelerific]

Rated Warzones last night we went 9 win 1 loss, 2 Sorc healers, 1 Op healer, 2 DPS jugs, 1 tank jug, 1 tankasin, 1 Arsenal Merc.

 

Sure we died a few times when all of their team was super focused, but we had enough heals most of the time to power thru whatever most anyone threw at us.

 

Some of our team are mostly augmented WH, some are mostly BM.

 

Just have to get better coordination, there isn't anything 3 dps can do if the two other healers have free reign to keep w/e ur on, up.

 

Practice Practice Practice, the world isn't over, some of us are still doing very well.

[LancelotOC]

Reroll a DPS class. Escpecially a class with a pull so you can pull any fool that still plays a healer away from the tank and guard where your team can wtfpwn him. Play WZ's with 8 DPS classes or at best toss some Op/Scoundrel healers. Win.

 

You don't need tanks or healers with enough classes with pull. As the other teams healers become a liability for them so you are really fighting your 8 against their 8 less healers.

 

Six PTs and 2 Ops on voice...goodnight Irene.

[Tavarus]

Rated Warzones last night we went 9 win 1 loss, 2 Sorc healers, 1 Op healer, 2 DPS jugs, 1 tank jug, 1 tankasin, 1 Arsenal Merc.

 

Sure we died a few times when all of their team was super focused, but we had enough heals most of the time to power thru whatever most anyone threw at us.

 

Some of our team are mostly augmented WH, some are mostly BM.

 

Just have to get better coordination, there isn't anything 3 dps can do if the two other healers have free reign to keep w/e ur on, up.

 

Practice Practice Practice, the world isn't over, some of us are still doing very well.

 

From what I've been seeing in the Rated Warzones myself, any team with a setup like this, 3 healers and the rest tanky classes have been dominating. Seems like if you want to win in rateds you need to throw out everyone that isn't a tank or healer.

[Wheelerific]

From what I've been seeing in the Rated Warzones myself, any team with a setup like this, 3 healers and the rest tanky classes have been dominating. Seems like if you want to win in rateds you need to throw out everyone that isn't a tank or healer.

 

Well no, I still think you need to have balance between heals/dps, but you need the healers, and you need a way of protecting them.

 

With zero dps you dont move forward in Voidstar, and with one mistake, other team can cap a door, and bc u brought all tank n heals, u lose.

 

But, 7 of us go right, our (probably best player out of all of us, tankasin) goes left, solos w/e poor soul their team left there, and we cap away.

 

And also, with our competent sorc healers, huttball is a free win every single time.

[Kuvox]

Good sorc/sage healers will get their casts off. They have so much utility including sprint, range stun, slow, knockback + root.

 

Force armor (the shield) is kind of an heal too. It absorbs 3k+ damage. It just can't crit but can be used on the move too. All the other spells are on such a fast cast time that you have more then enough time to get them off in a 1 vs 1 situation vs an equally skilled / geared DPS if you combin them with your utilites and CC.

 

It's another story in group fights, but as allready said healers shouldn't be balanced on group fights just because DPS isn't balanced on group fights neither. Alot of factors determine whether you are succesfull or not in those fights.

 

Lol. This is just so unrealistic against the best teams.

 

In ranked yesterday there were 5 times in which ALL of my heals were unusable because they had been interrupted. The new job of a healer, it seems, is to distract and lure away. Yes, it worked and we won all of our ranked matches but it WASN'T fun for me to die as much as I did. My team sure had a blast given free reign while I was a pin cushion.

 

This game is rapidly becoming "Where's the healer?"

Edited June 27, 2012 by Kuvox

[Thanatus]

Seriously, the servers have been up for 24 hrs since 1.3 and ppl already complain about everything...

 

Here, the two main themes are:

 

1. More healing
   
2. Less dying
   

 

Don't you think those two go hand-in-hand, i.e. the more effective healer you are the most focused you will be? You can't have it both ways!

[Nicki_Minaj]

A Sad Reality

Here's the issue. We have Ranked PvP now, and the game play has switched from forced casual to competitive. What we were given was PvP that was balanced around casual players queuing up for Random Warzones getting grouped up with Random players some of which are geared, and others who are not. The same thing could be said for the skill level of players. Most of the time you would not go against two pre-made groups at the same time while being put on a team with two pre-mades. With the amount of damage that most spec/class combinations have healers are severely gimped (from nerfs and lack of buffs to the non-sorc healing classes). What we're (healers with a decent amount of competence) seeing is that healers cannot put out numbers or be utilized in a way that makes them useful in Ranked Warzones. Healers were completely taken out of the equation (but not completely useless) with 2 geared/skilled DPS on them pre-1.2 but post 1.2 one DPS with the same gear/skill level can take a single healer out of the equation without leaving them much room to be useful to your seven other team mates.

 

I would love to see how Bioware balances classes. I don't know why they don't just post the numbers for healing, dps, QoL and how much utility each tree has (assuming a 0/0/31, 0/31/0, ect). As well as a video of them doing it, so the community can critique the video to get the best numbers.

 

I imagine that Sage healers would be harder to balance (in Flashpoints Salvation can only heal four people, but in an operation it can heal all eight. So the healing numbers would be vastly different). That aside, pre 1.2 Sorcs were too energy efficient (as were my main, Commandos). But if they really wanted to balance it, they would have removed the double heal in 1 GCD for burst healing and slowly moved their way from there. Nerfing/buffing all but two ACs in the game is not a good way to balance.

 

I don't believe the problem is utility (and imo the sorcs have the best utility for healers), but you could argue that all day. My Commando can increase healing done by 6% and reduce damage by 5% and increase armor by 10% with a Kolto Bomb and AMP. I can also become uninterruptable once every two minutes for fifteen seconds, which is why I love playing Commando. I don't believe the Operative has any utility outside of the slow, and they can't cc anyone outside of 10m. And Sages can bubble friendlies (which is similar to just healing them) and pull friendlies. For pvp, I still would take a hybrid DPS sage over a healing sage because the DPS sage can do the same utility as the healing, just better. (The hybrid healing sage is not aimiable to me, the sage's niche is aoe healing, and not taking that, imo, removes the point of having one.)

 

Current Situation

What healers are as of right now are meat shields so that DPS can stay alive and watch objectives. This game has way too many CC's and way too many classes that can hit for 20-30%~ of a healers health pool for the weak, resource intensive and slow casting heals that are given to us. Sentinels alone can interrupt 3-4 casts in a row without intervention of a friendly DPS. Getting away from a DPS is not possible like it used to be as casting Force Slow on someone is a valuable waste of a GCD that usually is negated by one of the many CC abilities that DPS classes have.

 

The game does come with a lot of CC. But with the nerf to relics I don't see how you're constantly getting hit for 20-30%.

 

Yes, Sentinels can interrupt five in a row (leap, interrupt, force stasis, the aoe mez, and then the next inerrupt). That is particularly rare and while they did shut you down for a long time, you shouldn't have taken much damage. Their four-second lockout interrupt with a six second CD (Pts also have this too) is pretty rediculous.

 

PTs used to have a heat cost for this, and I beleive sents had a focus cost, but they have been removed. Considering the CD on the interrupt, the sage can never use their long cast heal, which imo needs to be fixed. Perhaps a heal can only be locked out for x amount of seconds, and then can't be interrupted/locked out for x amount of seconds.

 

You can also cc the sent, like the 4 sec stun + whirlwind and then slow. That's twelve seconds he can't dps + a slow.

 

Playing objectives should be a huge indication of whether a healer is good or not, similar to if a DPS can

CC correctly, play the objectives and kill healers. But healers cannot waste the GCD's to help DPS keep people off of nodes and rarely can free cast on a ball carrier if need be. Not to say that a player can NEVER do the things that should define them as someone above exceptional but we're so severely weak and squishy that it has been made near impossible to do it well. Healers SHOULD NOT REQUIRE GUARD TO LIVE THROUGH 2 PEOPLE.

 

A good indication of whether a healer is good or not is how well they keep teammates alive.

 

If you, the healer, have to plant the bomb/cap the node, then switch guilds for some competent DPS that can do it for you.

 

Also, "to live through 2 people" is vague. If two mellee is right on top of you, especially one with a traumu debuff, you're going down and there isn't much you personally can do. This is where calling out that you need help comes in. An aoe KB from a Commando or a sniper, or a flash bang, can do wonders. But if they both lept to you, you can still use force sprint and last a much longer time (also one person is keeping two people at bay).

 

A healer should be able to last a substantially long time healing themself + other members with one DPS on them. If you do get focused, you have to retaliate coordination with coordination. A guard + taunts with a healer is a long time to live.

 

Imo I think that marked targets is a decent mechanic. My only complain is that it will last the entire match. I believe it should either be removed after a certain amount of time or have to be reapplied every time the healer dies.

 

So let's discuss the situation of healers.

 

Sorcerers/Sage need more survivability, better heals and more utility. Something along the lines of a binding heal would be nice.

 

I agree with everything but the utility. They need something that wouldn't improve PvE healing, but would still help with PvP healing.

 

Smugglers/Ops need a lot more utility in the way of being able to get away from DPS, I'd also like to see a better AoE heal.

 

Smuggler/Ops are allready the best kite while healing class around. They also have a better AoE heal than commandos.

 

Commando/Merc Healing needs a resource reduction and defensive CDs for the rest of the group. They should be the Holy Paladins of SWTOR. Give them a sacrifice, give them something that reduces/immune movement impairing effects.

 

I agree with the energy efficientness. To me the problem is our resource mechanic. They can either increase/decrease abilities by 1/12s which is not a pretty energy resource. They couldn't increase the cost of MP from two to two and one half, it was either two or three. It's an ugly mechanic.

 

But we also arguable have the best defensive CD as far as healers go. If we get white bard and still survive, our 15 second long sheild reduces pushback by 30%, increases healing recieved by 20%, and we become uninterruptable (and we can't be CCd). If I pop SGC I basically go into God mode and it's the best feeling ever. Outside of that and SGC, I can barely keep anyone alive and barely feel like a healer.

 

I also do not encourage the "when in doubt go with WoW" theme. I would rather they came up with their own unique improvements than just do what's allready been seen before.

 

I believe Sorc PvP healing needs adjusted, just not to pre 1.2 status. They said before 1.2 that Operative healing was fine, and that you could do all game content with two operative healers. I think eventually Sorcs will get the PvP buff they deserve, it's just a matter of time. I overall agree with your main point, but I would rather they took baby steps than radical nerfs/buffs to healers and dps and almost seven months in be so far behind.

[Ewgal]

Problem with deep spec Sage healer is that although they have AoE heal they have very little cc. If they go more hybrid to get the cc then they loose the AOE, though they can dps a bit too. What does that tell us compared to commando or operative Sage is probably the weakest healer to have in a team for RWZs. Edited June 27, 2012 by Ewgal

[Cylestat]

I think what the big problem right now is runaway DPS and not so much the healing in the game. Sure some specs need some work in regards to healing but it's not nearly that bad.

 

The problem is the huge numbers the DPS can put out compared to how a healer can deal with it.

 

Great post OP, I hope Bioware reads it and takes your thoughts to heart.