UPDATE 1.6 Defection & Redemption

[WarWidowX]

Where are the fallen Jedi’s? Where are the Rebel Agents? Where are the Imperial Troopers? Where are the Imperial Smugglers. Where are the Rebel Bounty Hunters?

 

It’s time to improve upon the mirror structure & story of this game and make Light and Dark Side choices mean something more in SWTOR during game play. It’s time to give Legacy more character driven backbone, open up the game with real class diversity, and allow a truly unlimited experience to evolve ones characters faction if they choose.

 

Introducing: 1.6 Defection & Redemption

 

All classes will be allowed the option to defect, fall from grace, or switch factions is they desire. This not only gives a wider diversity to the SWTOR universe, it also adds realism, and improves the rolls on the limitations of all classes.

 

It will be required that a character reaches lvl 50, has full Dark or Light side faction, must be unguilded, Legacy level 35 (unlock Defection & Redemption – 1,000,000 credits), and must complete a new class line quest that spans all the planets back to the roots of their beginnings.

 

Quests:

 

Jedi Knight – If You Only Knew The Power Of The Dark Side

 

Jedi Consular – Fall From Grace

 

Trooper – Emperor’s Fist

 

Smuggler – Underworld

 

Sith Warrior – Return of the Jedi

 

Sith Inquisitor - The Light Side

 

Bounty Hunter – Hunting the Hunters

 

Imperial Agent – The Bothan Agenda

 

Once a character changes factions, the change is permanent, and a title will be rewarded. Companions that are against the opposite faction will lose 2000 affection, but will remain loyal to your choice, but could pose possible issues down the road with future content. A character must keep his Light or Dark side rating maxed once they switch sides or receive a 2% debuff on all abilities per level of reduction.

 

Gear, items, and relics all belonging to the old faction will become unusable upon switching.

 

More can be added to this with improvements & story.

 

From here, the new road you travel will be a story all its own.

 

“The circle is now complete!”

Edited June 21, 2012 by WarWidowX

[Spanglerman]

This... This is genius. I hereby move to make you Senior Producer of New Content. All in favor?

[SpazCats]

I love it! Great idea OP!

[Lostpenguins]

... has full Dark or Light side faction

 

Why? If anything in the Republic stories, there's a lot of Neutral people in the Republic...

[split_light]

That looks like a lot of fun. It's way to much to expect in an upaid update though. They'd have to do a LOT of scripting, voicework, and programming. It would probably necessitate a full paid expansion.

 

That said, I'd totally go for it.

[WarWidowX]

Why? If anything in the Republic stories, there's a lot of Neutral people in the Republic...

 

If a Rebel character wants to remain neutral, that is their choice, and the option to join the Empire will not be theirs. No one is making anyone change factions. My Smuggler is offered a lot of Dark Side choices, this just adds fuel to the fire, making my future choices have bigger ramifications if I desire.

[Mizue]

I can only wish to see this. I would not change sides, but this would be great content Story wise.

[Shotgonius]

Yes!!!!

[WalkerW]

Introducing: 1.6 Defection & Redemption

 

All classes will be allowed the option to defect, fall from grace, or switch factions is they desire. This not only gives a wider diversity to the SWTOR universe, it also adds realism, and improves the rolls on the limitations of all classes.

 

It will be required that a character reaches lvl 50, has full Dark or Light side faction, must be unguilded, Legacy level 35 (unlock Defection & Redemption – 1,000,000 credits), and must complete a new class line quest that spans all the planets back to the roots of their beginnings.

Once a character changes factions, the change is permanent, and a title will be rewarded. Companions that are against the opposite faction will lose 2000 affection, but will remain loyal to your choice, but could pose possible issues down the road with future content. A character must keep his Light or Dark side rating maxed once they switch sides or receive a 2% debuff on all abilities per level of reduction.

 

 

Some of the limitations are arbitrary. One shouldn't confuse political alignment with moral alignment. There are plenty of instances where moral choices exist on both sides of the divide that are in opposition to the policial ones of your faction. Forcing that level of choice, and punishing them based on their alignment is poor design. Additionally, grey characters who maxed both light side and dark side shouldn't be excluded either. If anything neutrally moral characters would be the most likely people to swap sides.

 

I like the general idea, but the specifics are meh.

Edited June 21, 2012 by WalkerW

[peterpangelo]

This... This is genius. I hereby move to make you Senior Producer of New Content. All in favor?

 

All in favor say "aye." Aye.

[ritchied]

Indeed.... thumbs up

[Daethorz]

Please no cross-faction classes pl0x, come up with new interesting classes, but classes arent that important to me in this game, im happy with the ones we already have, the storys make this game so much better than most mmos, continuing already made storylines is what im most excited about.

[DaWaffle]

You know, I'm personally against faction-switching but... I don't know, this actuallly seems thought out. I would ask, however, if the Jedi/Sith abilities would remain the same.

[WarWidowX]

You know, I'm personally against faction-switching but... I don't know, this actuallly seems thought out. I would ask, however, if the Jedi/Sith abilities would remain the same.

 

Yes, all abilities would remain the same for all classes. This would add unique flavor to your character.

[rymah]

If they were to do something like this without tying your LS/DS rating to it I think it would be very interesting to see.

[Darth_Halford]

It kind of throws plot to the wind, don't you think?

 

The Trooper spends the first half of the narrative fighting people who defected towards the Empire, and the second half fighting against the Empire itself.

 

To go through all of that, and than say "**** it, I'm out of here?" is kinda ubsurd, especially when one of your companions already defected FROM the Empire, another is a droid hard-wired to support the Republic and Havoc Squad, and a former LT who made a career out of fighting the Empire?

 

Seriously, the classes are already mirrors of each other as it is. Why do we need EXTRA redunancy?

[WarWidowX]

It kind of throws plot to the wind, don't you think?

 

The Trooper spends the first half of the narrative fighting people who defected towards the Empire, and the second half fighting against the Empire itself.

 

To go through all of that, and than say "**** it, I'm out of here?" is kinda ubsurd, especially when one of your companions already defected FROM the Empire, another is a droid hard-wired to support the Republic and Havoc Squad, and a former LT who made a career out of fighting the Empire?

 

Seriously, the classes are already mirrors of each other as it is. Why do we need EXTRA redunancy?

 

Valid points. But think of it this way, Anakin was a Jedi who fought against those that where deemed evil or wrong, and he turned to the Dark Side. Sometimes heroes become anti-heroes, people fall from grace, and life could change in a blink of an eye. To say that someone good or evil would or could never change would be incorrect.

 

More story and character reaction would have to be put in place to make it work correctly and to add flavor.

 

Redundancy is a minor factor, but the main problem is that both sides are missing character elements they should have.

 

Think of it like comic books, imagine what it would be like if the Avengers turned bad? The turmoil, the reactions, the drama.

Edited June 21, 2012 by WarWidowX

[Darth_Halford]

Valid points. But think of it this way, Anakin was a Jedi who fought against those that where deemed evil or wrong, and he turned to the Dark Side. Sometimes heroes become anti-heroes, people fall from grace, and life could change in a blink of an eye. To say that someone good or evil would or could never change would be incorrect.

But at the same time we all knew that he would, because we knew him as Darth Vader first.

Yes people do change, that's where the the alignment and the DS/LS score comes in. You can completly change your morality without completly changing your politics.

 

Redundancy is a minor factor, but the main problem is that both sides are missing character elements they should have.

Such as what, and is faction-swapping the only way to fill those spots?

 

Think of it like comic books, imagine what it would be like if the Avengers turned bad? The turmoil, the reactions, the drama.

The problem is that any event in that comic, or series, would be treated full well as being non-canon. This game is being treated as strictly canon, which leaves out the potential of "what if"

[MagusHylia]

i always thought that defections should be possible, and it was mentioned in a interview before launch, they said they wanted to do it but it wouldn't be at launch. I am not sure about everything that was sugested but i definantly agree with defections. my biggest issue is it would give my characters more to deal with and it would only make me want to play more characters and i am already feeling limited with 8.

[JamieKirby]

i was interested in this, until i read this:

 

It will be required that a character reaches lvl 50, has full Dark or Light side faction, must be unguilded, Legacy level 35 (unlock Defection & Redemption – 1,000,000 credits), and must complete a new class line quest that spans all the planets back to the roots of their beginnings.

 

Sorry, but 1,000,000 credits is too much, WAY too much.

[WarWidowX]

i was interested in this, until i read this:

 

It will be required that a character reaches lvl 50, has full Dark or Light side faction, must be unguilded, Legacy level 35 (unlock Defection & Redemption – 1,000,000 credits), and must complete a new class line quest that spans all the planets back to the roots of their beginnings.

 

Sorry, but 1,000,000 credits is too much, WAY too much.

 

I only based a price on the costs that are in place now. It does not have to be that high.

[Kumata]

I honestly would rather see it as a legacy option type of thing like the races. IE: You get to max level with a Jedi Knight, once/if he hits max darkside points it should unlock the Jedi knight as an Empire class choice and vice versa. Of course a lot of work would have to go into story, I wouldn't want to see it an exact copy of the Sith Warrior story with Jedi Knight look/skill skins.

[WarWidowX]

But at the same time we all knew that he would, because we knew him as Darth Vader first.

Yes people do change, that's where the the alignment and the DS/LS score comes in. You can completly change your morality without completly changing your politics.

 

Such as what, and is faction-swapping the only way to fill those spots?

 

The problem is that any event in that comic, or series, would be treated full well as being non-canon. This game is being treated as strictly canon, which leaves out the potential of "what if"

 

All true. If Bioware would improve the LS/DS system and add more classes, then defecting would not be needed. Are we to believe that there are no Rebel Agents, Imperial Smugglers, and others? BH is more of a neutral class, the Imperials should had their own Trooper. We all know that SWTOR was planned out to be a story driven game, but if you honestly think about it, all classes should of been 100% neutral and playable (if no story was in place) and your faction and LS/DS choice determined your side.

 

If they could add this option of realism, it has the ability to make things unique. In life there are double agents, traitors, defectors, and the like. What if some of your companions do hate you after you made this choice but they still work for you, it could be interesting stuff, if they had the time to work on it.

 

As of right now, being full LS/DS to a point really means nothing but a visual look and some gear options. It needs to be more then that.

[Journeyer]

I don't like this, but I could be persuaded. I'd like to see this thought out a good bit more before I'd say this is a worthwhile change.

 

You see, in its current suggested implementation, it's a non-factor. I can RP that my character is working for the other side if I want to. With a little imagination, I can dodge a few thousand hours of coding time. And I can make moral light/dark decisions right there in the game. What you are proposing at the present is essentially flipping a bit for my faction. My story arc is essentially the same with a minor addition, my abilities are essentially the same.

 

And for the sake of a status change, look at the problems--Do I now go to a different fleet? So there'd be all 8 character types on both fleets running around, and half of the gear drops and other content wouldn't make sense for them? Sith go to Coruscant and look for special abilities from....new Sith Master trainer NPCs at the capitol? What about datacrons? Companions? My Class's headquarters on its starting world? My friends list? My guild? Flashpoints?

 

There's an entire game's worth of logistics that very strongly don't mesh, which is not by itself a reason not to do this. But also...the bang-for-the-buck significance is missing as well. If it's layered in as a disruptive status change on top of the existing game, then what impacts other than RP satisfaction does it provide? I can't get behind an idea that'd make no real story-impact on the game, yet would require a complete overhaul of all the content, just to say "there, now I can repent."

 

In short, the idea isn't fleshed out enough for me to find it a worthwhile feature simply because the only thing it accomplishes is a data point in an RP sheet, and breaks pretty much the whole game to do so. Breaking the whole game is fine--SW:TOR will eventually need a 2.0 release, so why not? But...there's got to be more.

 

Maybe if I switch factions, I bring most abilities over with me, but learn some of the mirror faction's? Sort of like having 4 new hybrid classes. Maybe there's a story arc in the future where I choose which faction's arc to follow and gain new companions, new abilities, etc, so that the switch happens cleanly instead of layering onto the existing game? Maybe my ship is blown up and a multi-zillion credit secret organization has me rebuilt and restored to a majorly upgraded version of my former ship and...oh.. ;D

 

You get my drift though, I hope. I like the idea, but I don't like a simple "run a big quest to be assigned opposite faction." It's BW--it has to be part of a new story.

[Bielduwyn]

And we're not even going into production costs, all 16 player character voice actors would have to voice twice the content as now there'll be the original faction quests dialogue to voice, AND the defected faction dialogue. So that's doubling the time and cost of their voice work (not even taking into account that most of the player character voice actors also voice NPCs). Not to mention reactions FROM NPCs. "Not every day you see a Jedi on Dromund Kaas", and all that.

 

Writing costs will also increase as now you'll need to write two class stories for each class, the one with their original faction, and the one they could've defected to.

 

So all in all, I am fiercely against it as it'd severely slow down the rate at which Bioware can push out new content as a whole lot of stuff will need to be done twice.

 

Not to mention from a gameplay perspective it is pointless as technically a Trooper plays the same as a Bounty Hunter anyway so what can a defected Trooper bring to the table that a BH can't? It'd also needlessly complicate PvP as now Troopers can suddenly be seen shooting at other Republic characters.

 

So yeah... no.