Operative is Useless as DPS, in HMs/OPs. Please Fix

[MobiusZero]

Personally, I think the TA's should be reworked so that regardless of talents, any operative has the same opportunity to generate them. That is very evident from the way Healers generate TA's vs. 'other' operatives. The other thing is that lacking TA's for damage operatives is a more significant issue than it is for healers.

 

So the operative spec that needs and is impacted by TA's the least has the most way to generate them. If there is an operative issue that I would flag as next up for addressing, that would be the one. IMO, BW missed the mark on the first TA fixes. The problems with TA's for healers at that time were not the same problems that DPS ops have with TA's now. That fix didn't do much for DPS operatives.

 

Problem is, to make this argument, you have to compare healers, to Concealment Ops, to Lethality Ops, each of which BW has their own seperate concept for, thus making it pointless to compare them for balancing TA.

 

Oh wait, that was your reasoning!!!

[Obtena]

Problem is, to make this argument, you have to compare healers, to Concealment Ops, to Lethality Ops, each of which BW has their own seperate concept for, thus making it pointless to compare them for balancing TA.

 

Oh wait, that was your reasoning!!!

 

My reasoning still is sound ... comparing access to common resources within a class regardless of talent specialization is not the same as comparing specific metrics like damage or tools between classes. Maybe if TA's were generated and used by classes other than operatives, you would have a point.

 

This argument to make TA's available via only common class actions instead of a talents falls completely under a class consideration, so there isn't a balancing issue between classes because of it. In addition, it would resolve a current in-balance in TA generation that's currently favours healing builds, even though TA's are needed for any operative build to be successful. The concepts for classes are ... class-driven, not talent-driven. Talents simply allow you to specialize. You still have access to the fundamental class abilities that are inline with the class concept, regardless of your talent build.

 

Sorry to disappoint you but there is no contradiction with my thinking. Even if there was ... someone would probably be ready to pounce on you for arguing against an idea for TA generations based only on common class actions if you support the idea that operative DPS talents are not performing well.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Obtena

[MobiusZero]

My reasoning still is sound ...

 

No, it's not. You totally just proved your argument wrong, and no measure of trying to gloss over it is going to help. Whether it's healing, or DPS, or energy regen/management, etc., comparison between classes is necessary, to balance the game properly.

 

Comparing operative archetypes is no different than comparing other classes to each other, since the concept of a healing operative is no less similar to a DPS Mercenary, than it is to a Concealment Operative. BW has completely different concepts for them, so by the reasoning you used, we should not be comparing them for balance.

 

Obviously, that argument was a load of bull crap, since you yourself just pointed out the need of comparison, for the sake of balance. Quit trying to say that, "Oh, but in this case it's ok to compare!" The fact is, you're still contradicting yourself.

Edited June 29, 2012 by MobiusZero

[Ryemfoh]

In my opinion, BW balances classes based on target performance, not based on direct class-on-class comparisons. They have stated numerous times that they have "performance metrics" and that they balance classes to "within 5% of those metrics". The fact that actual numbers vary greatly probably means that one of the following is happening:

1) People aren't spec'ing the way BW anticipated. We've already seen them trying to combat this through numerous changes to make hybrid spec's less effective.

2) People aren't playing the way BW anticipated. TOR mechanics are quite different to other MMO's (in my experience) and often to get the most out of your class you need to do things that don't feel natural to experience MMO players (e.g. using low damage abilities more frequently in order to stay in the highest resource regen zone).

3) Stats aren't performing the way BW intended. This is pretty evident in the way the whole white damage vs yellow damage stat requirements is working - and the fact that almost all our gear needs to have mods ripped out and replaced in order to min-max your damage output.

 

There are so many moving parts, it should be expected that there will be ebbs and flows in class balance - particularly in the first year (and when they're only just introduced truly competitive PVP). It took Blizzard years to achieve some modicum of class balance.

 

On the topic of TA's .. the different specs have different TA requirements. TA's are more core to the healer rotation than to either DPS spec - high cost abilities which require SP's to control energy, coupled with TA required for burst healing. The 3-stack is more to prevent TA wastage due to the randomness of TA procs than to allow for higher TA usage. DPS specs are balanced around being able to do their TA ability roughly once every 6 seconds (Laceration slightly more often due to TO procs, but has lower damage output than Cull).

 

Personally I don't think the mechanics need tweaking at all. I would be happy with a gap closer (but it's not required), and I would be happy with slightly buffed damage (either burst or sustained - it's also not really required, I'd mostly be happy because it would shut the QQ'ers up) - but the mechanics are fine, interesting, and most importantly - fun!