tijoy Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 i need help getting more dps from my sniper i have read a few sites but to little or no avail. im a pure marksman spec (31/7/3) and im need any advice and/or rotations that could help. i know to open with shatter shot for the defuff but after that either my dps is good and my energy goes below 50 or my dps sucks and my energy is in the 80's but no matter what i try i cant hit the in between of that. also how much DPS should a rakatta level gear sniper be doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covax Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I am in the same pickle as this guy any info would be good! would I be getting better DPS if I went lethality for example? Sharpe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agentsalloum Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) As a former full MM sniper that resisted Lethality and finally caved in, I used this to help: http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/Thread-The-1-2-Lethality-Sniper-Dirty-Fighting-Gunslinger-Compendium IT also gives a standard rotation, but I've noticed with Lethality you have to be a little situational. Be advised, you won't mow down trash as quickly as you would with MM due to Lethality's set up time, but in long fights I noticed with equal gear I was able to pump out about 300-400 more DPS with lethality and have come to begrudingly love it. Edited June 18, 2012 by agentsalloum I messed up the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infalliable Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) i need help getting more dps from my sniper i have read a few sites but to little or no avail. im a pure marksman spec (31/7/3) and im need any advice and/or rotations that could help. i know to open with shatter shot for the defuff but after that either my dps is good and my energy goes below 50 or my dps sucks and my energy is in the 80's but no matter what i try i cant hit the in between of that. It's probably just a practice issue then. You'll likely need to work in some rifle shots to keep your energy high. Because sniper rotations are more of a priority system than a hard and fast rotation, it's more of a feel for it that will come from practice. also how much DPS should a rakatta level gear sniper be doing? Depends heavily on the boss mechanics and the number of armor debuffs. Greater than 1200 is a good target for most boss fights if you're in unaugmented rakata. I am in the same pickle as this guy any info would be good! would I be getting better DPS if I went lethality for example? Lethality generally will do more damage in boss fights and some better mobility, but you do give up a fair amount of mitigation for it. Also, lethality does have poorer ability to deal with trash and target swap. Edited June 18, 2012 by Infalliable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 MM is not hard on energy. You just need to make sure to stay above 60% (66 energy if you have 110 total). Outside of that nobody will give you any advice on MM now that 1.3 changes are coming that will change completely the MM rotation. Just make sure to take sniper volley skill, as it can give you as much as 60 energy per minute extra if you stay in high regen bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owlhowl Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I would say swap to Lethality till 1.3..... It yields much better dps than marksman and much higher mobity which is needed for most of the bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svii Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) I would say swap to Lethality till 1.3..... It yields much better dps than marksman and much higher mobity which is needed for most of the bosses. This is a lie. MM is fine, I top dps in just about every boss fight ahead of both a lethality sniper and a sorc in our raids. We're all extremely well geared and it is very close between us. Lethality is just easier to play, that's all Use followthrough, SoS, Ambush, OS on cooldown. Snipe as filler to proc FT and if you have energy, think ahead and make sure you don't dip under 60% after a Snipe if any of the other higher priority skills are about to come off cooldown. No shame in using rifle shot, which also seems to proc Sniper volley quite often. Don't forget to use your relics/adrenal throughout the fight, but save oneor two of them and (Rapid fire/target aquired for the burn phase.. you can easily use them twice in a fight. During movement phases, OS and corrosive dart are good and use insta snipes/FT/Takedown on the move. Even during heavy movement phases you should have time to put in an ambush and SoS every now and then. It's really not needed to run all that much if you know the fight Generally I do 1300-1400+ dps in EC HM, look in my signature for stats and build.. only missing a couple mods for the optimal MM build and it won't give me much more dps, me thinks. Edited June 19, 2012 by Svii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Lethality is just easier to play, that's all I've seen several people say this, and it really throws me....because I actually find Lethality the hardest spec to play. Also the least fun and most aggravating. Different brains, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbel Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 This is a lie. To be fair, it's most likely not a lie, but simply an unsubstantiated claim. Lethality is just easier to play, that's all. This is an interesting topic -- in my opinion, each of the sniper specs is challenging, and each in its own way. Lethality requires us to keep an eye on our DoTs on top of striving to keep two abilities on cooldown (one with a 9s cooldown, the other with 15s). Engineering has a bunch of medium-length cooldowns to prioritize (15s, 18s, 30s), plus a large chunk of its damage is ground-targeted, which involves a good deal of predictive placement to maximize uptime on the target. Marksmanship is a bit more straightforward in terms of rotation; however, it's the most unforgiving in execution (with a cooldown of just 6s that also requires another "triggering" ability). Additionally, MM relies on remaining in cover as much as possible to maximize energy regeneration, which necessitates good preparatory positioning. It makes a lot of sense to me that one sniper may find Lethality's skillset more intuitive while another sniper prefers Marksmanship and a third likes Engineering best. One thing we all have in common is that we make space dust of any stinkin' gunlingin' outlaw that comes near. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svii Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) My comment was meant to be slightly 'edgy', mostly because people have such absolute opinions ^^ Tibbel, what you say is how I see it as well. I had no issues playing Lethality, to me it was easy. Engineering boggled my mind, I'll take that challenge on later! Edited June 20, 2012 by Svii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbel Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 My comment was meant to be slightly 'edgy', mostly because people have such absolute opinions ^^ That's what I figured, but it's hard to portray and perceive paralanguage purely through text. That's why I'm a fan of emoticons. For example: I hate you. vs I hate you. /thread derail (sorry. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owlhowl Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I've seen several people say this, and it really throws me....because I actually find Lethality the hardest spec to play. Also the least fun and most aggravating. Different brains, I guess. Lethality is harder than Marksman to play I am simply not sure what the sniper above is talking about. And Lethality DOes yeild more DPS simple because of the fact that its so much more moblie. If you can sit there the whole ops fight I have no doubt marksman will be close but not a chance is it better than Lethality. Lethality you have to track dots amongst 20 other dots on the target due to bad UI. and the energy management of lethailty is stricter than marksman... Marksman you can just sit there and use a next come next serve priority system. Easy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbel Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Lethality is harder than Marksman to play I am simply not sure what the sniper above is talking about. And Lethality DOes yeild more DPS simple because of the fact that its so much more moblie. If you can sit there the whole ops fight I have no doubt marksman will be close but not a chance is it better than Lethality. Lethality you have to track dots amongst 20 other dots on the target due to bad UI. and the energy management of lethailty is stricter than marksman... Marksman you can just sit there and use a next come next serve priority system. Easy.. You say you don't know what the above poster is talking about, but then you bring up many of the same points. Whether fighting the UI to track DoTs, fighting movement requirements to try to maximize cover, or fighting tanks to keep targets in the AoE, the argument can be had which of those is "harder" -- but it would be almost entirely subjective. "The specs' DPS capabilities are pretty close to balanced" doesn't mean everyone will do the same DPS with any of the specs. They rely on certain various proficiencies between them, and I would think it rare that someone could find them all equally challenging and equally fun. (This is, of course, why different specs exist.) I have seen parses of snipers and gunslingers doing 1500+ DPS in each of the three specs. Simulations show all three specs within 5% of each other (for now). Discussions have been conducted regarding how to minimize each spec's weaknesses and maximize its strengths. These things are not subjective. If you have some data to contribute, then it's possible these conclusions can be refined. Until then, the conclusions will rest on the existing objective evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svii Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) Do not look too closely at dpsmeter.com ratings, total dps can vary in the hundreds depending on your tactics and the other players on your team. Faster kill, higher dps. It is a flawed way of measuring your efficiency. I'm not saying Lethality is a cake walk to play, but to me personally, it is easier. You do not need to pay attention to dots other than reapplying every 20 secs (do not over think it!), you get two Culls per dot-rotation.. even if it takes longer you should still Cull even if you have the weak ones rolling instead of reapplying your dots before the 2nd Cull. All specs are affected by movement phases. Difference is, Lethality does damage while moving, MM does not do any damage unless you PLAN for it. This is why I personally feel that MM is more satisfying to play than Lethality, I have to be on the ball at all times. Planning ahead, timing the few dots I have (CD/OS) for movement phases, making sure that I maximize the potential of Followthrough, OS and SoS/Rapid Fire. Like Tibbel said earlier, some specs come more natural to certain people. Ultimately I think Bioware has done a decent job at balancing the specs so far, IMO they need to do some adjusting between the different damage types and mitigation (especially in PVP). If I'm not working at all, it's pointless to play.. Lethality comes prety easy to me, it feels like I have a pillow to relax on. On the other hand, MM keeps me awake and on the ball. If MOX tells me that a Sorc or any other DPS is closing in, I've overlooked or forgotten something. Time to push it harder! MM dps is also hugely improved by armor debuffs, very noticably. I can't imagine a Lethality sniper beat me in a 16m ops group with 3-5+ armor debuffs.. since I already pull ahead with only 2 debuffs.. if your MM Sniper is slacking behind by more than 50-100 dps, he needs to practice or optimize gear PS. PvP is an excellent training ground! Movement and positioning will soon be second nature to you or 6 six feet under is your next destination :3 PPS. Use the tools available to optimize your stats, Tibbels spreadsheet and the SimluationCraft for SWTOR are awesome! Lethality has slightly different optimized stats than MM, if you've not modded your gear, you're not playing to your maximum PEW PEW! EDIT! Excellent post from Tibbel above, hope mine explained why I feel MM works better for myself Edited June 23, 2012 by Svii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonespiano Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) The spec that will work better depends on playstyle, and also on how much uptime you can get in a fight. If I'm doing something like the optional boss in HM LI, I have a terrible time in my MM spec because I have to keep moving when it rains icicles, and the two other specs both have superior DoT and instant-cast abilities. If I can't sit in cover and cast with no more than minimal interruptions, my DPS is gone. Against Soa, though, I wouldn't want to play anything else. In a straight-up DPS race, it's a thing of beauty - you have 3 separate abilities that can crit for over 4K, and only one of those has a cast time. But it's the efficiency of it that's the real wonder. I actually took Rifle Shot off my cover bar because I just wasn't ever using it. I do keep it on my regular bar because if I'm moving, I need to be doing SOMETHING, but Overload Shot is usually my choice there too, or I'll save a Followthrough proc for that phase. Edited June 24, 2012 by Jonespiano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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