Why do people feel that everything should be easy to obtain?

[thomasmeadows]

A game should be fun, first and foremost. If a game is only fun for a minority of its players, then the game failed.

 

Now, anyone can handicap themselves and make things harder for themselves by using a handicap - no companion, no armor, etc. It's easy. But those who whine about things being too easy don't want a challenge for themselves, they want to make the game harder - too hard - for others so they can feel better/"über".

 

That's not the kind of people a game should cater to.

 

A game should cater to all types of players. Especially one you pay a monthly fee for.

[Razdek]

A game should cater to all types of players. Especially one you pay a monthly fee for.

 

Swtor does cater to all players... Its also good at being accessible to all players... I just think the hardcore people are angry because they are no long 'special'

[thomasmeadows]

I just think the hardcore people are angry because they are no long 'special'

 

Which means that this game is <NOT> catering to all types of players in the community because they are not catering to a part of the population. I just don't understand how in the same sentence you could say they are catering to all types of players but not hard core players. Thats like political double speak.

Edited June 20, 2012 by thomasmeadows

[Razdek]

Which means that this game is <NOT> catering to all types of players in the community because they are not catering to a part of the population. I just don't understand in the same sentence how you could say they are catering to all types of players but not hard core players. Thats like political double speak.

 

Yes they are... There are hard modes and nightmare modes etc. there is end game gear etc... Its just that ops etc no longer take 10 hours to complete (exaggeration). This means casual players now have the same access. Therefor hardcore players who feel like they are more skilled (when in reality they are not) have had this rude awakening. Tough luck, suck it up, your not special anymore.

[thomasmeadows]

Yes they are... There are hard modes and nightmare modes etc. there is end game gear etc... Its just that ops etc no longer take 10 hours to complete (exaggeration). This means casual players now have the same access. Therefor hardcore players who feel like they are more skilled (when in reality they are not) have had this rude awakening. Tough luck, suck it up, your not special anymore.

 

In order to cater to hard core players you have to make them feel special.....

[Razdek]

In order to cater to hard core players you have to make them feel special.....

 

No they just need to get over their over inflated ego... And nothing bioware does could do that... Ever.

[thomasmeadows]

No they just need to get over their over inflated ego... And nothing bioware does could do that... Ever.

 

Sounds like you just have an Anti-Elitism Bias.

[Kophar]

Hey all,

 

The point in here isnt if this is a time sink or a hard challenge to get HK, the main problem here is how we are supposed to obtain it. The challenge part is totally secondary.

I do know BW wants us to dwell in Alts exploration on both factions and i do understand why they would want us to do that but here's the deal.

1 thing is to encourage us to make alts on both factions by delivering us some minor features from the legacy system, (i.e: races and heroic abilities) however, we arent talking about minor features anymore.

A companion is much more than a minor improvement in your character.

For those that do enjoy the story of an MMO, a companion is precisely, a huge chunk of their personal experience on SWTOR. Than u do have specific bonuses for crafting, wich for me is very important as well. Not to mention that is a NPC that travels with u and does help u on questing/dailys etc. So we arent actually talking about minor features here anymore are we? There are even companions that are better equipped than certain other players main chars.

Now, i do realise that are peeps around that do enjoy making alts and thats fine, cheers for them but i aint one of those players and im pretty sure that alot of us arent.

Ofc i do have 2-3 other chars but i aint rushing them to 50 as some other players do it. But thats not even the big issue cause sooner or later we would make a 2nd char and a 3rd and we would rip the benefits from the legacy system, so i guess i could be hassled from BW to make a 4th or a 5th char and work my way to grab this extra companion.

The big issue here is I MUST MAKE an alt on the opposing faction. Now this is totally unacceptable. Im an imp and i want to stay as an imp and i dnt want to make any rep toon.

In terms of Roleplay to a player this is incompreensible, why BW is forcing this, it just dnt make any sense at all.

BW with this, is forcing me to play in a way that i dnt enjoy, wich is playing in the opposing faction.

You could say to me "If u dnt like it than dnt grab the companion" but like i said, we arent talking bout minor features anymore. A companion is a medium-major improvement to your char both in questing and crafting, this isnt something BW can mess with. And they shouldnt be telling me that i need to make a char on an opposing faction to get it cause in a roleplay point of view and personal gameplay this is bull.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Kophar

[Razdek]

Hey all,

 

The point in here isnt if this is a time sink or a hard challenge to get HK, the main problem here is how we are supposed to obtain it. The challenge part is totally secondary.

I do know BW wants us to dwell in Alts exploration on both factions and i do understand why they would want us to do that but here's the deal.

1 thing is to encourage us to make alts on both factions by delivering us some minor features from the legacy system, (i.e: races and heroic abilities) however, we arent talking about minor features anymore.

A companion is much more than a minor improvement in your character.

For those that do enjoy the story of an MMO, a companion is precisely, a huge chunk of their personal experience on SWTOR. Than u do have specific bonuses for crafting, wich for me is very important as well. Not to mention that is a NPC that travels with u and does help u on questing/dailys etc. So we arent actually talking about minor features here anymore are we? There are even companions that are better equipped than certain other players main chars.

Now, i do realise that are peeps around that do enjoy making alts and thats fine, cheers for them but i aint one of those players and im pretty sure that alot of us arent.

Ofc i do have 2-3 other chars but i aint rushing them to 50 as some other players do it. But thats not even the big issue cause sooner or later we would make a 2nd char and a 3rd and we would rip the benefits from the legacy system, so i guess i could be hassled from BW to make a 4th or a 5th char and work my way to grab this extra companion.

The big issue here is I MUST MAKE an alt on the opposing faction. Now this is totally unacceptable. Im an imp and i want to stay as an imp and i dnt want to make any rep toon.

In terms of Roleplay to a player this is incompreensible, why BW is forcing this, it just dnt make any sense at all.

BW with this, is forcing me to play in a way that i dnt enjoy, wich is playing in the opposing faction.

You could say to me "If u dnt like it than dnt grab the companion" but like i said, we arent talking bout minor features anymore. A companion is a medium-major improvement to your char both in questing and crafting, this isnt something BW can mess with. And they shouldnt be telling me that i need to make a char on an opposing faction to get it cause in a roleplay point of view and personal gameplay this is bull.

 

Id make 10 tooms if i had too... Jus not on the republic side.

[Kophar]

Exactly what i said

[thomasmeadows]

The big issue here is I MUST MAKE an alt on the opposing faction. Now this is totally unacceptable. Im an imp and i want to stay as an imp and i dnt want to make any rep toon.

 

You only "have to" if you want the companion. No one is making you do it. A companion is pretty insignificant in terms of how powerful your character is. Its a purely cosmetic change similar to an orokeet or taunlet pet.

 

I mean would you level 2 characters to 50 for a mount or pet? Its the same idea for a companion.

Edited June 20, 2012 by thomasmeadows

[Razdek]

You only have to if you want the companion. No one is making you do it. A companion is pretty insignificant though in terms of how powerful your character is its purely cosmetic. Like an orokeet or taunlet pet.

 

So wrong... People WANT the companion but we shouldnt be forced to switch factions as that ruins our gameplay. 2 50s required? Awesome i can do that... But there is no logical reason as to why they have to be on a faction i despise.

[SaintAvalon]

I don't think you get it... Majority of players are casual these days. Games revolve around the majority because thats where the money is... And again everyone thinks people arnt willing to put in effort... Not true at all... Less time to play doesnt mean less skill or willing to put in effort... We want accessibility. There is a huge difference.

 

So far "accessibility" has meant:

 

"raid gear from instances"... That's not accessibility that's laziness, giving items not required by none raiders to none raiders...

 

"easy money" ... Making sure everyone has money and isn't required to do much more than some quests each day to have money... again too easy, they are just handing you money each day, and it's because people want "accessibility"...

 

"Ez pvp lootz" the almighty welfare epics, making sure everyone has epic loot or high quality loot as long as you are willing to play a few hours here and there through out the week.

 

"content clear" making it basically take an hour to hour and half to clear an entire raid because heaven forbid you have to play the game to earn your gear... you want it NOW not next week... you can only play a couple hours a week, why should you not get ALL the raid gear instantly? Because playing two days a week is just too much work.

 

I'd really just like a company to create an MMO and remove the crap currency from Instances, and make sure that raid gear is in fact earned in a RAID.

 

Remove dailies, because the only purpose they serve is a way to grind... to give "accessiblity" to people that don't want to play with others, or can't play with others for whatever reason they deem acceptable.

 

I want Vanilla WoW....

 

That i'd play.

 

I play this because I enjoy raiding, and I do pretty much only that. I help when I can, and farm mats/money for the guild bank, as do others.

 

But i'd love to know that when we go run an instance rare drops are in fact rare...

 

/shrug.

 

What can I do, I'm apparently the minority.

[Razdek]

So far "accessibility" has meant:

 

"raid gear from instances"... That's not accessibility that's laziness, giving items not required by none raiders to none raiders...

 

"easy money" ... Making sure everyone has money and isn't required to do much more than some quests each day to have money... again too easy, they are just handing you money each day, and it's because people want "accessibility"...

 

"Ez pvp lootz" the almighty welfare epics, making sure everyone has epic loot or high quality loot as long as you are willing to play a few hours here and there through out the week.

 

"content clear" making it basically take an hour to hour and half to clear an entire raid because heaven forbid you have to play the game to earn your gear... you want it NOW not next week... you can only play a couple hours a week, why should you not get ALL the raid gear instantly? Because playing two days a week is just too much work.

 

I'd really just like a company to create an MMO and remove the crap currency from Instances, and make sure that raid gear is in fact earned in a RAID.

 

Remove dailies, because the only purpose they serve is a way to grind... to give "accessiblity" to people that don't want to play with others, or can't play with others for whatever reason they deem acceptable.

 

I want Vanilla WoW....

 

That i'd play.

 

I play this because I enjoy raiding, and I do pretty much only that. I help when I can, and farm mats/money for the guild bank, as do others.

 

But i'd love to know that when we go run an instance rare drops are in fact rare...

 

/shrug.

 

What can I do, I'm apparently the minority.

 

Vanilla wow sucked... I played it from release. The raids were good and required skill... Im not opposed to skill based raids. But sitting on my butt for 4 hours to do a raid and nothing else... No thanks. I dont know about you but i dont want to be an obese social reject.

 

As for dailies? Yea its easy money... I rarely do them as its a boring grind... However i am not left wanting for money on my toons. Pvp epics? You do the time, you get the gear... How is that any different to other pvp mmos? Your arguments are just flawed man. They are baseless.

[sheeldon]

I'm not trolling, I want to have a serious discussion.

 

For example, the HK-51 companion coming out is probably going to require both a lvl 50 imperial and a lvl republic character on the same legacy to get. People all of a sudden start to complain about how they "don't feel like leveling an opposite faction character" and "Bioware messed this one up I'm quitting". I happen to like the requirement because not everyone is going to get it, it's fun to experience leveling a character on both sides, and it's not another one of those freebies to come in the mail. We have to work for it. People in this game feel they are entitled to get everything that comes out in this game, and if they don't feel like doing it, it becomes "unfair" and "bad business Bioware".

 

I think some people fail to realize that this is not a single player game. You aren't going to get everything handed to you. In MMOs a lot of the successful players have things the other don't because they put in more effort. This isn't even a diffcult requirement anyway. I applaud Bioware for making this awesome companion at least a little difficult to get. I'm not trying to disparage anyone, I'd really like to know why people feel that if they don't like to do something then it shouldn't be a requirement to get a cool companion. I know some people have filled all their charact6er slots but have like a lvl 40, a lvl 20 and six lvl 1-10 characters. You can afford to delete one of them to level a republic guy if you want HK-51. It is your choice whether to fulfill the requirements or not.

 

Can we at least have a somewhat civil discussion for once? I have a feeling it's going to be too much to ask.

 

well tbh its more than that its just another companion i dont wanna have to lvl another character just for a campanion lol

[makjulos]

So wrong... People WANT the companion but we shouldnt be forced to switch factions as that ruins our gameplay. 2 50s required? Awesome i can do that... But there is no logical reason as to why they have to be on a faction i despise.

 

Logic? We don't do that here! Hehe- ofc there is no well thought through reason to set it up this way, but seriously why do we complain so much, it's just a companion anyway- already got a few of those.

 

[Razdek]

Logic? We don't do that here! Hehe- ofc there is no well thought through reason to set it up this way, but seriously why do we complain so much, it's just a companion anyway- already got a few of those.

 

 

Logic is exactly my point.... People are argueing say people who dont want to level on opposite faction are lazy... They miss the point... Its not the effort its the faction.

[Denyus]

I expect full Rakata on my alts when i am home from work or i quit the game!

 

On a more serious note, people that are complaining about they are not getting their HK droid without a bit of effort from the player are just trolls or lazy people nuff said.

 

Hell gearing up is easy you get columi from Lost Island and rakata chest from proffesor, that would equal killing SOA on HM i think he is the one that drops the chestpiece can't remember tbh. You can buy the privater gear at 50 which is way better then modded level 50 gear and it's good enogh to do EV/KP on at least Storymode i assume a group of 8 in HM with that gear only would struggle well i hope so at least.

[DarthPasta]

Entitled player is entitled? Do some work or go away.

[CosmicKat]

And you don't think that is going to affect their play experience when the game is suited to Mr 12 hours a day over those who are only playing it some?

 

Oh that is right you don't care you want it your way. Again game companies are there to make money. So they are going to cater the games to the largest group of players. Hardcore players are not the target audience for many games. There are games out there for you. They are niche games, and draw a niche playerbase. This game isn't trying to do that.

 

Right.

 

Cause the average Joe out there will totally see a Star Wars MMO as mainstream entertainment and not a nerd-o-palooza.

 

Star Wars MMO = Niche game in a niche market.

[xandax]

I always wonder why people think grinding makes for effort?

It's for many just an automated process that takes no other ability then being able to dedicate some time without ever needing any improvement in skill along with it.

 

Grinding up another faction character is not effort. It's just a time sink put in to keep people playing. Had they made it raiding dependant, PvP dependant - I wonder how many who now cry "effort" would have claimed it unfair.

[Oddller]

I remember months ago when 1.2 was about to come out.

In the patch 1.2 video with the dev. talking, when showing all legacy unlocks( around the part when video is showing the training bots on ship) , He said he understands that people play one character (for whtever reason ,RP ex.) he assures that people playing one character would still have legacy unlocks available 2 them.

 

well its not a huge deal but why force Single character players who want new unlocks to make another character now? . A new companion will be exciting/must have 2 most. Just saying there should be another way to obtain like very high legacy lvl or something.

 

I have enough characters on both sides,so no worries but i was wondering about the players that like 2 play one character and have high legacy lvl ( like my brother who role-plays), some players just don't like playing the other side....grinding lvls is the easy but not fun, especially when you know you plan not to play that character ever again...

[FearghalC]

I completly agree with the OP.

 

This game is far too easy as it is. I hope BW make it hard to obtain cool stuff, so that people have something to work towards. I really wish they stopped people making Jedi or Sith until they had another level 50 in the same faction.

 

I wish the game was harder, personally.

[Skirata_Kal]

I always wonder why people think grinding makes for effort?

It's for many just an automated process that takes no other ability then being able to dedicate some time without ever needing any improvement in skill along with it.

 

Grinding up another faction character is not effort. It's just a time sink put in to keep people playing. Had they made it raiding dependant, PvP dependant - I wonder how many who now cry "effort" would have claimed it unfair.

 

Again, if someone levels an imp toon to 50 on one server and a Republic toon to 50 on a different server, how does that make them lazier than someone who did the same 'feat' on one server? Is there some extra effort required to level two opposite factions on the same server that isn't there when you split your factions among 2 or more servers? I'm not following this 'logic' that the people raising concerns are 'lazy'...

 

Not everyone raising concerns about the requirement are lazy (In fact, I'm ok with the requirement actually...I just see where some people are coming from). And trying to equate that with people asking for things with no effort...that's a bit over the top.

[funktion]

this is just the mentality of people today, they want everything, and they want it now. People are growing up never being told NO, they just have time outs, and are catered to at home and school. Everyone is a winner, and is honored, and able to have the same things as everyone else and get an achievement for it. The old saying "life isn't fair, just deal with it" doesn't apply to the current generation, sadly.