Slowpokeking Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 That would be very hard to believe, I think. I'd say let him go to war against Sidious and die, showing how powerful Sidious/his Forces are. It's the perfect step to let her fall to the Dark Side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 It's the perfect step to let her fall to the Dark Side. Which? Killing Celeborn or see how Celeborn dies against her enemy? Galadriel falling to the dark side is nearly unbelievable. Galadriel killing Celeborn is plain impossible. She would never do that. On the other hand, loosing him against the enemy could add to her motivation to become more powerful. She might blame herself for his death and see the need to become more powerful to protect her people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 Which? Killing Celeborn or see how Celeborn dies against her enemy? Galadriel falling to the dark side is nearly unbelievable. Galadriel killing Celeborn is plain impossible. She would never do that. On the other hand, loosing him against the enemy could add to her motivation to become more powerful. She might blame herself for his death and see the need to become more powerful to protect her people. It can be mixed together, he went against the Sith but was turned by Sidious' trick, so she was forced to kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 It can be mixed together, he went against the Sith but was turned by Sidious' trick, so she was forced to kill him. Do you plan on giving Sidious mind-control like the Sith Emperor has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 Do you plan on giving Sidious mind-control like the Sith Emperor has? No, mostly corrupt him like he did to Anakin and Dooku, also could use a few mind tricks but not direct control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) No, mostly corrupt him like he did to Anakin and Dooku, also could use a few mind tricks but not direct control. You make Elves far to easy to corrupt, I think. Anakin and Dooku were humans and humans are far easier to corrupt than elves. Edited June 17, 2012 by Maaruin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 You make Elves far to easy to corrupt, I think. Anakin and Dooku were humans and humans are far easier to corrupt than elves. He's Darth Sidious, I don't want to waste too much time on that, mind control is also ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) He's Darth Sidious, I don't want to waste too much time on that, mind control is also ok. Yeah, Darth Sidious needed a few years to corrupt an instable human like Anakin. I don't know the time span of your FanFic, but what you wrote sounded as if he was supposed to corrupt Celeborn on the way. Corrupting him would probably take decades, so mind control fits better. Edited June 17, 2012 by Maaruin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 Yeah, Darth Sidious needed a few years to corrupt an instable human like Anakin. I don't know the time span of your FanFic, but what you wrote sounded as if he was supposed to corrupt Celeborn on the way. Corrupting him would probably take decades, so mind control fits better. Yeah, maybe not through direct description, the main focus is still on Dooku and Galadriel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Yeah, maybe not through direct description, the main focus is still on Dooku and Galadriel. I still think in this case it would work better if Celeborn just dies. In the Silmarillion you find some stories about how much this damages elves or maiar. (Melian after Thingol died for example.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 I still think in this case it would work better if Celeborn just dies. In the Silmarillion you find some stories about how much this damages elves or maiar. (Melian after Thingol died for example.) Death is ok, but corruption then force Galadriel to kill him will be even darker. I honestly don't like mind control because it's too easy, skipped the step of lure out people's darkness and make them fall. But if it will take too long, then maybe just indirectly mention it, such as Sidious already started to contact him for a very long time and used a few mind tricks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Death is ok, but corruption then force Galadriel to kill him will be even darker. I honestly don't like mind control because it's too easy, skipped the step of lure out people's darkness and make them fall. But if it will take too long, then maybe just indirectly mention it, such as Sidious already started to contact him for a very long time and used a few mind tricks. On the one hand it would be even darker, but on the other hand Galadirel's fall to the Dark Side would make far more sense if he died. (Like the death of Anakin's mother and the visions of Padme's death.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 On the one hand it would be even darker, but on the other hand Galadirel's fall to the Dark Side would make far more sense if he died. (Like the death of Anakin's mother and the visions of Padme's death.) Maybe, but she would have to kill someone close to her to fall to the Darkness, who will be a better choice except her husband? Gandalf(physical body)? Elrond? Arwen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Maybe, but she would have to kill someone close to her to fall to the Darkness, who will be a better choice except her husband? Gandalf(physical body)? Elrond? Arwen? Do you mean at the beginning of her fall or as the last step. If it is the last step of her fall, I'd say Elrond or Thranduil. It would be a move to take control over all elves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 Do you mean at the beginning of her fall or as the last step. If it is the last step of her fall, I'd say Elrond or Thranduil. It would be a move to take control over all elves. Close to her last step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) Exactly the same as the Elves would be, they have no connection to the force whatsoever, they are created by divine power, far superior to humans, etc.. in every single aspect. Everything is connected with the Force unless it was cut off from it like the Vong. Even being like Abeloth. Edited June 18, 2012 by Slowpokeking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amien Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Nihilus didn't start with conuming planets. Ungoliat had the potential to become as powerful as Nihilus. Yes, LotR magic is far more subtle than some Force powers. But it isn't that rare. Powerful magic of course, but Elves can create magical artifacts all the time. And they have reflexes, can see very far and can rest his mind (same effects as sleeping) while walking. That is very similar to what most Force users can do. Also given the size of the Jedi Order compared to the size of the galactic population, Force sensitivity is also rare. . I'm so glad someone gets it!! Honestly I didn't even think about the fact that force sensitivity is rare. The way they present, everyone and their mom is force sensitive. Also, you could argue that Ungoliant was more powerful than Nihilius, seeing as it's speculated that she ended up devouring herself in the shadows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 I'm so glad someone gets it!! Honestly I didn't even think about the fact that force sensitivity is rare. The way they present, everyone and their mom is force sensitive. Also, you could argue that Ungoliant was more powerful than Nihilius, seeing as it's speculated that she ended up devouring herself in the shadows. Yes, they are rare, but since it's across the galaxy, they are still a pretty big number compare to LotR's magic users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Yes, they are rare, but since it's across the galaxy, they are still a pretty big number compare to LotR's magic users. Statistically, there are more magic users thean there are Force users. Depending on the time line. If we're talking GE then there are way more magic users. Any other time and there are more Force users. Generally, there are plenty of magic wielders in Middle-Earth. Take the armies of Angmar for example. The backbone of the Witch-Kings army was sorceror's. Many of the Elven race has some ability with magic. Even Sauron taught some of his forces magical abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 Statistically, there are more magic users thean there are Force users. Depending on the time line. If we're talking GE then there are way more magic users. Any other time and there are more Force users. Generally, there are plenty of magic wielders in Middle-Earth. Take the armies of Angmar for example. The backbone of the Witch-Kings army was sorceror's. Many of the Elven race has some ability with magic. Even Sauron taught some of his forces magical abilities. Non force user can crush LotR force with much more advance technology. Please don't talk about the Witch King again, he got his *** kicked by a girl and a hobbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manttana Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) Well, medieval swords and future tech doesn't compare much. What is more, in LotR there's only one continent while SW has countless planets, meaning coutless resources. But, to me personally, in LotR there's much more mystical forces working. Tolkien, for example, is not really describing Souron's appearance much, only giving hints on how deadfull he looks. So, I believe that in LotR most of the magic wielding characters, has much more hidden power, because Tolkien usually gives only hints about what they're actualy capable of. What I wanted to say is, that in SW is almost all about how big your lighting or force push is, while in LotR you'll never fully know what tricks they have to turn the tide of battle. Edited June 18, 2012 by Manttana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Yes, they are rare, but since it's across the galaxy, they are still a pretty big number compare to LotR's magic users. Yes, that's true. But on the other hand I wouldn't expect the SW galaxy to send all their force users to Middle Earth, especially if it is during a war and there are other planets to conquer. The question is if the military leaders of SW think Middle Earth is worth the effort. More specifically: Are the few spots that might be able to repell an invasion (Elven territory, Mordor if Sauron is strong enough and maybe a few mines and Isengard) worth the effort. Gondor, Rohan, Eriador, Rhun, Harad etc. would be conquered without much effort. Non force user can crush LotR force with much more advance technology. Please don't talk about the Witch King again, he got his *** kicked by a girl and a hobbit. You mentioned the Ewoks yourself. In the right terrain an advanced force might still be beaten. Dwarves in their mines and elves in their woods might be able to win against SW forces, maybe even the Orks in the mountains. The other peoples, of course, get their ***es handed to them. And please read again what happened to Eowyn and Merry afterwards. Gandalf said that he wished he would have been able to prevent them from facing the Witch King. Yes, you might find a girl and an alien that can kill the him, but they will surely die afterwards. (Except you have the Consular from this game present, his shielding ritual might save them.) Well, medieval swords and future tech doesn't compare much. What is more, in LotR there's only one continent while SW has countless planets, meaning coutless resources. That's true. Most of middle earth won't be a challange for SW troops. But, as I said, there are exceptions. But, to me personally, in LotR there's much more mystical forces working. Tolkien, for example, is not really describing Souron's appearance much, only giving hints on how deadfull he looks. So, I believe that in LotR most of the magic wielding characters, has much more hidden power, because Tolkien usually gives only hints about what they're actualy capable of. What I wanted to say is, that in SW is almost all about how big your lighting or force push is, while in LotR you'll never fully know what tricks they have to turn the tide of battle. Agreed. Interesting is that in the Original Trilogy it was the same with the Force. Only at two moments we get hints about what the force can actually do: When Yoda lifts the X-Wing single-handedly (Wow-moment) and when the Emperor punishes Luke with lightning (Oh Crap-moment). You get the impression that if you are very experienced and strong in the force, there are basically no limits. You could think of millions of ways to help others or to let them suffer. But with all the EU and the prequels, we have a certain set of Force powers you can use. (Which is only natural with that much material.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erudain Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Non force user can crush LotR force with much more advance technology. Please don't talk about the Witch King again, he got his *** kicked by a girl and a hobbit. well actually what made the Witch King "killable" was the enchanted westernesse sword/dagger Merry used to stab him, that's what got him open for Eowin's blow (and even with that it almost killed them both...) So unless you can enchant a ligthsaber or create some form of force attack that has the same effect of a numenorean spell, I think a ligthsaber/force attack will "dispell" him at best, but he will be back. Another question....what can stormtroopers do against the army of the dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 well actually what made the Witch King "killable" was the enchanted westernesse sword/dagger Merry used to stab him, that's what got him open for Eowin's blow (and even with that it almost killed them both...) So unless you can enchant a ligthsaber or create some form of force attack that has the same effect of a numenorean spell, I think a ligthsaber/force attack will "dispell" him at best, but he will be back. Another question....what can stormtroopers do against the army of the dead? Do you know what kind of spell Merry's blade was enchanted with? There might be Sith artifacts with similar spells (maybe Marka Ragnos' sword). Oh, I forget to mention the army of the death as some of the few forces that have a chance against SW armies. Stormtroopers have no chance. The Sith Inquisitor on the other hand... omnomnom. (But eating that much ghosts is definitly not healty. Those who played SI will know.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) But with all the EU and the prequels, we have a certain set of Force powers you can use. (Which is only natural with that much material.) Not really, you can still do pretty much anything with the Force. No one has put a limit on force powers or what have you, its just writers don't seem to wanna bother creating new powers. Given that there are over 100+ force powers in Star Wars. Edited June 18, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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