SWTOR "looking at free-to-play"?

[Jandi]

If it had a sub, the game would not exist today because THE SUB MODEL IS UNSUSTAINAB:LE FOR MOST COMPANIES NOWADAYS. The game launched with a sub only model. It couldn't sustain that cause people are not going to pay a sub for so many gosh darn MMO's on the market. Why is that SO hard for you to understand?

 

No, it couldn't sustain itself because it was ****. Just like STO was ****. Just like AOC was ****. Just like lotro was ****. Way to completely change the subject though and ignore the glaring stupidity in your own post.

[KellyX]

If it had a sub, the game would not exist today because THE SUB MODEL IS UNSUSTAINAB:LE FOR MOST COMPANIES NOWADAYS. The game launched with a sub only model. It couldn't sustain that cause people are not going to pay a sub for so many gosh darn MMO's on the market. Why is that SO hard for you to understand?

 

They couldn't bring in enough subs to make the Subscription Model work for them, cause LOTRO was too niche.

 

I understand why they had to go FTP, same reason why TOR is going to go FTP, they aren't generating the money needed to be profitable and they can nickel and dime more people in micro-transactions if they had millions playing randomly from time to time for "free".

[Valkirus]

If. A. Sub. Was. Man-da-to-ry. You. Would. Get. Everything. Even. The. Unimportant. Stuff.

 

Not really. Even WoW has several pets and mounts you have to pay extra for.

[Rhysling]

And you have to pay for ALL of that, separately or pay for a sub. Which was exactly my point. Shame you missed it. Yeah, real F2P isn't it. It's not. They add stuff for you to buy, not to make the game better.

 

Nope. Ive had an account from 2010. In that time I spent exactly $60. So for 2 1/2 years of game time I only had to spend $60.

 

SWTOR has been out 6 months. How much have you spent in 6 months?

 

Lets see. You bought the game. Anywhere from $50 to $130 depending on edition. Then you spent $14.99 every month to play.

[Claymaniac]

No, it couldn't sustain itself because it was ****. Just like STO was ****. Just like AOC was ****. Just like lotro was ****. Way to completely change the subject though and ignore the glaring stupidity in your own post.

 

It isn't **** though lol. You can say it is. I have played LotrO since launch and I still enjoy it. And I'm glad that I have been able to enjoy it for 5 years. If it stayed a sub only model, the game would have to shut down in 3 years. I hope I can play SWTOR for a long time. If it stays sub only, it won't survive when the newer and shinier MMO's come out.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Claymaniac

[Valkirus]

Ok so, as long as you don't pay for anything it doesn't cost any more than a sub would. If it had a sub, you wouldn't be excluded from those horses in the first place! How hard is that simple concept to comprehend? WHY DON'T YOU PEOPLE GET IT! JEEBUS

 

But he would have the choice to spend the money on the horses or not. And you need to look at what a monthly sub cost's you per year. Get it?

[Durasturan]

And you have to pay for ALL of that, separately or pay for a sub. Which was exactly my point. Shame you missed it. Yeah, real F2P isn't it. It's not. They add stuff for you to buy, not to make the game better.

 

Are you suggesting the stuff they add for you to buy DOESNT make the game? Or that for many games going F2P DOESNT provide a boost to their financial earnings? Or that you HAVE to buy the extra items in a FTP game?

 

HINTS:

You dont HAVE to buy the extra items in FTP games like you said you did

 

In the case of DDO which you were responding too, the extra stuff is the equivalent of at least one full and maybe even two expansions which for a P2P game would cost you $120(60ea).

 

Shame you missed it, F2P IS IN FACT F2P the fact you feel that you NEED all the extra stuff is irrelevant.

[Jandi]

Lets see. You bought the game. Anywhere from $50 to $130 depending on edition. Then you spent $14.99 every month to play.

 

And in that time I haven't been excluded from ANYTHING nor has anyone tried to constantly sell me ****. You are also completely missing the point.

[Rhysling]

that seems kind of impossible since Sony didn't even know they where doing the NGE till 1 week before it happened.

 

Yep, they revamped all that code and changed the entire game in one week. LOL

[Rogoo]

Considering F2P after just six months ? What a screw up this is. o.O

[Durasturan]

Nope. Ive had an account from 2010. In that time I spent exactly $60. So for 2 1/2 years of game time I only had to spend $60.

 

SWTOR has been out 6 months. How much have you spent in 6 months?

 

Lets see. You bought the game. Anywhere from $50 to $130 depending on edition. Then you spent $14.99 every month to play.

 

That's not entirely true for everyone, while youre mostly right, I've received 3 full free months and 1 day of game time. 1 mo came with the game, 1 mo for appreciation day, and one month because they screwed up something on my account and I threatened to unsub, and the one day I think everyone received because of the failpatch from a couple of months ago that screwed everyone out of playing.

[Jandi]

Are you suggesting the stuff they add for you to buy DOESNT make the game? Or that for many games going F2P DOESNT provide a boost to their financial earnings? Or that you HAVE to buy the extra items in a FTP game?

 

HINTS:

You dont HAVE to buy the extra items in FTP games like you said you did

 

In the case of DDO which you were responding too, the extra stuff is the equivalent of at least one full and maybe even two expansions which for a P2P game would cost you $120(60ea).

 

Shame you missed it, F2P IS IN FACT F2P the fact you feel that you NEED all the extra stuff is irrelevant.

 

Yeah, you can grind the first zone like a *********** moron to get enough whatevertokens to unlock the next one. Grind enough of that and you might unlock a race that isn't a human. A month later, you might even have enough whatevertokens to pick a class you actually want to play. That's what your free gameplay is, don't try to make up random stuff.

[Valkirus]

And in that time I haven't been excluded from ANYTHING nor has anyone tried to constantly sell me ****. You are also completely missing the point.

 

Na..I think you have. Sure the amount of money you have spent you have felt it is worth it. But for many, the 6 x 14.99 = 89.94 has not been worth it and may not be near as much as you would spent on the fluff in a FTP game.

[Jandi]

Yep, they revamped all that code and changed the entire game in one week. LOL

 

As someone who personally saw the NGE go live... I wouldn't be so quick to ridicule.

 

(I know it didn't, I'm trying to be funny)

[Claymaniac]

And in that time I haven't been excluded from ANYTHING nor has anyone tried to constantly sell me ****. You are also completely missing the point.

 

You are just looking at it from the customer's point of view. Hey, it would be great if every MMO offered sub only and every game was able to sustain themselves for a long time and keep producing great content. But, that is unrealistic. Specially nowadays and the future when there are more and more MMO's on the market. Look at how quickly people hop off a new MMO's bandwagon nowadays. because there is always something newer around the corner. The choice is gonna be stick to sub only strictly and survive for maybe 2-3 years. Or adopt a hybrid F2P model and survive for 7-10 years. Its just how it is.

[Jandi]

Na..I think you have. Sure the amount of money you have spent you have felt it is worth it. But for many, the 6 x 14.99 = 89.94 has not been worth it and may not be near as much as you would spent on the fluff in a FTP game.

 

Why do you people keep trying to constantly change the subject? This isn't about the relativity of subjective enjoyment and it's monetary worth, stop trying to make it so.

[Claymaniac]

Yeah, you can grind the first zone like a *********** moron to get enough whatevertokens to unlock the next one. Grind enough of that and you might unlock a race that isn't a human. A month later, you might even have enough whatevertokens to pick a class you actually want to play. That's what your free gameplay is, don't try to make up random stuff.

 

You can pay a sub though if you don't wanna do the little transactions and stuff. Play like normal. Why aren't you getting that? Why are you so opposed to options?

[Albertwang]

Great decision to go F2P as long as gear isn't purchasable via microtransactions. They should have done the Guild Wars model in the beginning I think than monthly.

[Macabrae]

This game will not go free to play...sorry to break it to the "Nay Sayers" who always claim doom and gloom. Even if this game dropped from 1.3 mill subscribers all the way down to 500k, this game will still massively profit.

 

At 500k this game makes $7.5 million dollars a month or $90 million a year. The overhead on this game is no where near that. and that is IF this game dropped to 500k down from 1.3 million. As a business owner and investor myself I can tell you if a CEO would decide to give up that cash for a F2P model I would suggest he be removed from his position. Now if this game dropped to 150,000 or less then that would be a different story.

 

Also now that they are merging servers and people see a lot more players on the fleets a lot of people I know are now re-subscribing. They didn't quit because they disliked the game, they quit because they didn't want to re-roll onto another server. I think people will find subscriptions will go up in the next couple months not down.

 

My 2 Cents

[Jandi]

You are just looking at it from the customer's point of view. Hey, it would be great if every MMO offered sub only and every game was able to sustain themselves for a long time and keep producing great content. But, that is unrealistic. Specially nowadays and the future when there are more and more MMO's on the market. Look at how quickly people hop off a new MMO's bandwagon nowadays. because there is always something newer around the corner. The choice is gonna be stick to sub only strictly and survive for maybe 2-3 years. Or adopt a hybrid F2P model and survive for 7-10 years. Its just how it is.

 

So because some games are too crap to sustain interest, all games should be just as crap? If people would stop shelling out cash for complete garbage, there wouldn't be as many MMOs because they would be shut down as they should be, which would result in all these horrible companies thinking twice before pushing out more junk into the market.

 

As i said earlier, it only breed mediocrity.

[EcrirTwyLar]

Let me rephrase--

 

Patch 4.3.0, "Hour of Twilight", went live on November 29, 2011. That's the last major content release by Blizzard in WoW. So, it's been more than 6 months without new content.

 

In that time frame, SWTOR did the following--

 

1. Game released in Dec

2. Sold >2 mil copies

3. Released patch 1.1 (large content patch)

4. Reported sub lost of 700K (down to 1.3m)

5. Released patch 1.2

6. Introduced Server transfer

7. Ready to release 1.3 soon.

 

So, tell me why SWTOR is losing sub, while WoW is not (in spite of being stagnant for the last 6 months)?

 

Because WoW has it's established player base. SWTOR is in survival mode. They are madly trying to do everything they can to keep players that tried the game and are now going back to whatever it is they were doing before they tried SWTOR.

 

I personally think the MMO community is ready for another sand box game. SWTOR is too much like what they've already seen with the addition of 100% voice overs. Sorry, 100% VO isn't all that Bioware thought it was. What happens when you join a group for a Flashpoint? Someone say's "Hey, can we all skip through the conversations?" And I play on an RP server. I can't imagine anyone on a Pve or PvP server is listening to them.

 

I'd love to find a home in a good Star Wars MMO. But I'm beginning to think that isn't going to happen. I think my next big hope for a good MMO is The Elder Scrolls Online.

[Jandi]

You can pay a sub though if you don't wanna do the little transactions and stuff. Play like normal. Why aren't you getting that? Why are you so opposed to options?

 

Because it's not an option for people who want to play the entire game and do stuff on a whim. Stop lying about it being a choice. You are gated constantly. I can just imagine it now! "go explore the galaxy! Find new and EXCITING cash shops!". ****. That.

 

Yeah, you can just keep playing the free to lvl15 trial and be happy, right? No.

[Claymaniac]

So because some games are too crap to sustain interest, all games should be just as crap? If people would stop shelling out cash for complete garbage, there wouldn't be as many MMOs because they would be shut down as they should be, which would result in all these horrible companies thinking twice before pushing out more junk into the market.

 

As i said earlier, it only breed mediocrity.

 

You are just blindly associating F2P with crap. Oh well, no point continuing this. Like I said earlier, it would be nice if we as gamers grew up a bit and were more open to change. Cause change will happen.

 

Its easy to sit behind a computer and say "Don't make crap and you will be fine". Its not really a simple matter to just churn out legendary game after legendary game. And people wonder why there isn't much innovation lately. We want all these developers to take risk after risk, but we as gamers are quick to jump off the bandwagons ASAP. And when they try different models to be able to sustain the risks, at that time we wanna say NO DON'T INNOVATE NOW!!

[EcrirTwyLar]

Yeah, you can just keep playing the free to lvl15 trial and be happy, right? No.

 

That is not their F2P model. That is their free trial model. Their F2P model hasn't been announced yet. But I'm thinking it will include an option to pay your $15/month and have full access to everything.

[Jett-Rinn]

Because WoW has it's established player base. SWTOR is in survival mode. They are madly trying to do everything they can to keep players that tried the game and are now going back to whatever it is they were doing before they tried SWTOR.

 

I personally think the MMO community is ready for another sand box game. SWTOR is too much like what they've already seen with the addition of 100% voice overs. Sorry, 100% VO isn't all that Bioware thought it was. What happens when you join a group for a Flashpoint? Someone say's "Hey, can we all skip through the conversations?" And I play on an RP server. I can't imagine anyone on a Pve or PvP server is listening to them.

 

I'd love to find a home in a good Star Wars MMO. But I'm beginning to think that isn't going to happen. I think my next big hope for a good MMO is The Elder Scrolls Online.

 

But ESO isn't going to be Sandbox either.....so basically you are setting yourself up for another disappointment.

 

SWTOR has it's issues but what folks refuse to acknowledge is that SWTOR was the most heavily smeared MMO ever, Astroturfers, Bioware/EA haters and jilted SWG zealots all lined up to kick on the title and while they were very effective, in the end the community lost, because aside from a Asian or a indie project you will not see any more MMO's being announced for the next five to ten years...in other words enjoy your pandas because it's all you're getting.