SWTOR "looking at free-to-play"?

[Jandi]

@claymaniac

 

From what I'm understanding of this specific line, in short, he means pay to win. All the dungeons you add wont matter if you can just buy the uber items you can which is true for DDO specifically (not sure on LOTRO since i havent played that one).

 

Tho I pretty much agree with claymaniac in the availability of options, Jandi is truthful about F2P changing the dynamics of current MMOs that went F2P. The only true free to play model that didnt really change the gameplay at all would be the current Team Fortress model (even tho its an FPS).

 

See, that wasn't so hard.

[LordHazanko]

The funny thing is there's so many people out there who say the same about the sub model. So many of my friends refuse to even give any MMO a chance because paying a sub for a game is just a ridiculous concept to them.

 

But paying anywhere between 20-150$ a month for ingame crap items or exp bonus scrolls from the microtransaction shop is better, then paying a small amount as to 15$? Well sir, you have some pretty "special" friends, who would rather waste a lot more money, for what reason?

[LovarBoy]

I keep seeing this.. a shame that Rift is way worse off then this game is atm though.

 

Yes, it is.

 

But maybe Storm Legion will get Rift new attention. It looks amazing.

 

 

It's unimaginable how BioWare crashed SW:TOR in under 6 months - I can't get that.

 

$ 200 million - WHERE the hell are you?

[Claymaniac]

@claymaniac

 

From what I'm understanding of this specific line, in short, he means pay to win. All the dungeons you add wont matter if you can just buy the uber items you can which is true for DDO specifically (not sure on LOTRO since i havent played that one).

 

Tho I pretty much agree with claymaniac in the availability of options, Jandi is truthful about F2P changing the dynamics of current MMOs that went F2P. The only true free to play model that didnt really change the gameplay at all would be the current Team Fortress model (even tho its an FPS).

 

Sure, if you can buy essential items with cash, then I would have a problem too. But just cause 1 F2P game does it, doesn't mean every F2P game will do it. Although I mean right now in every MMO, you can basically pay to win anyway. Buy gold, buy leveling services etc. most of us don't engage in that, but there's people who do. And we don't stop playing legitimately just cause such people exist, do we?

 

I can see the pay to win thing being a big issue in competitive play though, for sure.

[justandulas]

But paying anywhere between 20-150$ a month for ingame crap items or exp bonus scrolls from the microtransaction shop is better, then paying a small amount as to 15$? Well sir, you have some pretty "special" friends, who would rather waste a lot more money, for what reason?

 

I have friends that think the same. They won't pay a sub fee for an MMO but ironically will dump 50-100 bucks a month into LoL or another "F2P" game. The irony is pretty overwhelming. I don't support SWTOR's move to F2P and it would be the equivalent of them selling out and giving up. It would be the end of my experience with SWTOR and they would have had my sub for years. If F2P is announced, I'm done with it which is a shame because i really adore this game.

[Claymaniac]

But paying anywhere between 20-150$ a month for ingame crap items or exp bonus scrolls from the microtransaction shop is better, then paying a small amount as to 15$? Well sir, you have some pretty "special" friends, who would rather waste a lot more money, for what reason?

 

Wait, where did you get the idea they would spend $20-$150 a month for crap in game items? Why do people twist words so much. They won't try a MMO because they won't pay a sub. F2P might entice them to try. Once they do, maybe they will be willing to pay a sub, or MT whatever floats their boat. Where did you come up with, "Oh they won't pay a sub, that must surely mean they pay $150/month for in game items"? ***?

 

Side note, do people really pay $150/month in games? o.o

[Undraxis]

Sure, if you can buy essential items with cash, then I would have a problem too. But just cause 1 F2P game does it, doesn't mean every F2P game will do it. Although I mean right now in every MMO, you can basically pay to win anyway. Buy gold, buy leveling services etc. most of us don't engage in that, but there's people who do. And we don't stop playing legitimately just cause such people exist, do we?

 

I can see the pay to win thing being a big issue in competitive play though, for sure.

 

Agreed. In my case i dont mind other players being able to pay to win. I played MUDS in the old days where players would donate to the people that run the MUD and get items. So I'm used to that environment. Which is probably why i hate PVP since that game type would suffer the most in a pay to win situation.

[discosoc]

Yes, it is.

 

But maybe Storm Legion will get Rift new attention. It looks amazing.

 

 

It's unimaginable how BioWare crashed SW:TOR in under 6 months - I can't get that.

 

$ 200 million - WHERE the hell are you?

 

Rift has always "looked" amazing. The problem is that it's very generic in everything from gameplay to story and lore.

[Mallorik]

I keep seeing this.. a shame that Rift is way worse off then this game is atm though.

 

Im here because i want to like this game, i left rift for swtor because i had been waiting for it for 4 or 5 years. I will leave swtor for rift if it goes f2p or if they empty out servers because some clueless dev hinted at swtro going f2p and caused another mass exodus.

 

Imo Rift is a well made game run by a good company and good people that bust their butts to make that game great they also listen to and communicate with their player base.

 

So far Bw Counters every good thing they do with 5 stupid things, they keep their player base in the dark and seem to have devs more intent on making an mmo that they themselves want rather than what the mmo player base wants. Which would not be a bad thing if any of the devs previously played or knew anything about mmos.

[Jandi]

Sure, if you can buy essential items with cash, then I would have a problem too. But just cause 1 F2P game does it, doesn't mean every F2P game will do it. Although I mean right now in every MMO, you can basically pay to win anyway. Buy gold, buy leveling services etc. most of us don't engage in that, but there's people who do. And we don't stop playing legitimately just cause such people exist, do we?

 

I can see the pay to win thing being a big issue in competitive play though, for sure.

 

It's not just one game lol, get real. Second, buying gold and leveling services is a breach of EULA and most people frown upon it. Just because cheating happens doesn't mean you should be allowed to cheat, that's completely idiotic. Third, leveling services mean nothing in end-game. While I report anyone, even guildies that buy gold, them paying someone to level them to max doesn't cheapen my end-game. They will still be horrible at the game and will always have the crappy blue set.

 

It's like this. You play a game monopoly, for example, with your friends right? Now, would it still be enjoyable if you could just take money from the bank when you please? NO, that would completely DEFEAT THE PURPOSE of playing in the first place.THAT'S my problem.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Jandi

[Darianth]

For all of you QQ'ing about F2P, and promising to unsub, seriously, without knowing how they are going to implement it, what is your problem with it?

 

There is a false stigma about the F2P model that F2P = Bad. It's not true. It's the way of the future. The $15 monthly subscription model is a dinosaur. It won't work any more. There are too many multiplayer online games and services to compete with to ask your players to dedicate themselves to a monthly subscriptions.

 

As it is, $15 a month isn't all that much when compared to say.. the cost of going to a movie. But when you start adding up multiple subscriptions.. still paying for WoW? Xbox Live? Add a couple more and they can really add up.

 

Having a F2P model allows players to remain active, and pay based on how active and interested they are. Need more character slots? $10... Need more bank space? $5.

 

Many games have proven this can be successful. As others have mentioned.. DDO, and LotRO have done it with some success. SoE just transitioned some of their games as well. More will follow.

 

Get used to it. If you are going to refuse to play a game, regardless of how good (or bad) it is based on it being F2P, you are probably going to miss a lot of cool stuff...

 

 

NinjaEdit:

Just because there are bad games that are F2P, it doesn't mean that all F2P games are bad.

 

Well it's vey easy to do that I've played on Xbox live for 6 months and haven't even payed $6 on it.

F2p games are bad, they aren't as well maintained and in the long run can add up to costing more for less and for a lower quality game. That's definitely not a win situation.

[Liokae]

Here is the biggest joke about f2p.....

 

Wait for it....

 

It sucks.

 

It's nothing like the gaming experience you're used to in any game you've ever played (probably) before. Trust me, you'll end up spending more and you won't be happy because someone spent even more and got *just* that much better than you.

 

Actually, my CoX experience has dramatically improved since their swap to hybrid. Content updates, even discounting the ones that have to be bought, are more frequent, and often more enjoyable than the older ones were. Granted, it's not a straight up F2P, and I'm on the subscription side of the hybrid, but the addition of the F2P side has given me a drastically improved play experience.

[Cmder-Shepard]

If this game went free to play I would seriously have to consider if staying here in the game would be a good thing. Free to play games are just awful pay to win games that I really don't want a part of :/ don't turn swtor into one of these games you will loose people if you do.

[Mallorik]

Wait, where did you get the idea they would spend $20-$150 a month for crap in game items? Why do people twist words so much. They won't try a MMO because they won't pay a sub. F2P might entice them to try. Once they do, maybe they will be willing to pay a sub, or MT whatever floats their boat. Where did you come up with, "Oh they won't pay a sub, that must surely mean they pay $150/month for in game items"? ***?

 

Side note, do people really pay $150/month in games? o.o

 

Its how f2p works, if swtor needs 500k subs to keep the game going, how many "free players" would it need to keep those same numbers if everyone is only paying a couple of dollars a month? 3m? 4m?

 

F2P is just socialism, you need a small amount of players to pay way more than $15 a month to pay for the subs of the majority. Or you can go pay to win where everyone is forced to pay alot of money and kill your game in a matter of days.

[Valkirus]

14.99 + tax of course.

 

No. You are wrong. I just checked thier website. It is 9.99 per month. I think in today's economy why some MMO's stick with 14.99 per month is not a good decision. They may get more subs and come out overall ahead if they dropped it to 9.99.

[discosoc]

Wait, where did you get the idea they would spend $20-$150 a month for crap in game items? Why do people twist words so much. They won't try a MMO because they won't pay a sub. F2P might entice them to try. Once they do, maybe they will be willing to pay a sub, or MT whatever floats their boat. Where did you come up with, "Oh they won't pay a sub, that must surely mean they pay $150/month for in game items"? ***?

 

Side note, do people really pay $150/month in games? o.o

 

Not many, but a few.

 

Zynga, which does Farmville is a good example. They made something like 600 million last year, with 252 million active users. On paper that might sound like the average user is spending a little over 2 dollars a year on the game, but in reality most people pay next to nothing. That 600 million in revenue is largely driven from a small percentage of people, something like 6%. Which means there are some wealthy people out there willing to shell out thousands of dollars a month for virtual carrots.

 

F2P mmo's are much the same, in that most people pay very little, if anything, and are subsidized by those that are willing to shell out a lot.

 

The biggest problem with F2P is that I can't think of a single example of it where the game has a lively end-game community. The model seems to target people who are "in between" MMO's, and just looking for something cheap to do until they find what they really want.

[Lundli]

Imo Rift is a well made game run by a good company and good people that bust their butts to make that game great they also listen to and communicate with their player base.

 

I have to agree to that one but for some reason that doesn't seem to be enough, I've been playing since the betas and I've had to move server a few times. Now my latest choice, Blightweald, is dying too. As it stands now I have a choise between two servers, one pvp the other pve.. just two.. after that I have no idea

[Mallorik]

No. You are wrong. I just checked thier website. It is 9.99 per month. I think in today's economy why some MMO's stick with 14.99 per month is not a good decision. They may get more subs and come out overall ahead if they dropped it to 9.99.

 

I didnt know they went to 9.99, lol just another reason to go back to rift.

[mjmcooke]

If this game went free to play I would seriously have to consider if staying here in the game would be a good thing. Free to play games are just awful pay to win games that I really don't want a part of :/ don't turn swtor into one of these games you will loose people if you do.

 

Agree. I was playing a F2P game for six months before coming to TOR, and I'm pretty sure I ended up spending probably more like 25-30 bucks a month on the game. And I was a fairly low spender compared to alot of the serious folks in the game. All of the best gear was ONLY available for cash, as well as experience boosters, speed boosters, and other quality of life items. Then of course cosmetic items too. It was impossible to be more than mediocre in PVP if you weren't spending cash, and even PVE was more difficult if you weren't . Top that off with the fact that the VERY best stuff was available in a lottery type system where you paid for a chance to win something, chances were very small it would be the top tier stuff, usually youd get a crappy consolation prize.

[Valkirus]

I didnt know they went to 9.99, lol just another reason to go back to rift.

 

Lol. hate to disappoint you, but that was in reference to LOTRO.

[Undraxis]

Not many, but a few.

 

Zynga, which does Farmville is a good example. They made something like 600 million last year, with 252 million active users. On paper that might sound like the average user is spending a little over 2 dollars a year on the game, but in reality most people pay next to nothing. That 600 million in revenue is largely driven from a small percentage of people, something like 6%. Which means there are some wealthy people out there willing to shell out thousands of dollars a month for virtual carrots.

 

F2P mmo's are much the same, in that most people pay very little, if anything, and are subsidized by those that are willing to shell out a lot.

 

The biggest problem with F2P is that I can't think of a single example of it where the game has a lively end-game community. The model seems to target people who are "in between" MMO's, and just looking for something cheap to do until they find what they really want.

 

 

Ill have to agree with the last particular statement, I am a frequent F2Player and I love to jump games when I hit game play "walls", especially the endgame. In general i think F2P helps with population numbers at the beginning and lower levels which tend to peter out when most of the hardcore players hit the max level.

 

What companies hope is that a player is so emotionally invested on a toon by the time they hit the middle to end levels that they are convinced to either fully sub, or spend money to catch up to more established players. Unfortunately its simple psychology and it works enough times that they make a greater profit than surviving on subs on a mediocre MMO.

[metalgearyoda]

free to play might be the only way bioware breaks 2m players again.

[Jandi]

 

The biggest problem with F2P is that I can't think of a single example of it where the game has a lively end-game community. The model seems to target people who are "in between" MMO's, and just looking for something cheap to do until they find what they really want.

 

That's because end-game is pointless. Why spend 2h in a raid when you can buy your item set with the amount of cash you make in an hour at work. Not only that, but *usually* you need to shell out cash to even access the content, then some more to get the items to actually do it.

[Valkirus]

That's because end-game is pointless. Why spend 2h in a raid when you can buy your item set with the amount of cash you make in an hour at work. Not only that, but *usually* you need to shell out cash to even access the content, then some more to get the items to actually do it.

 

Well. I have spent 149.93 for TOR for 6 months of play and I never did get to experence any end game content such as OP''s. Only one level 50 FP after hours and hours on Fleet trying to get grps for those during 5 months of game time. I would say BioWare owes me a refund..lol.

[Mallorik]

Lol. hate to disappoint you, but that was in reference to LOTRO.

 

Oh damn, yeah i knew lotro was 9.99.

 

I tried lotro f2p and it really wasnt bad, by far the best f2p ive ever played. But i still got that feeling of being nickle and dimed to death, being charged for things like quests, bag and bank space jsut gets old after awhile.

 

Thats why i wont play f2p games and im not excited about Gw2, even at their best with no pay to win features they still feel like theyre always trying to charge you for something. take my gd $15 bucks a month, give me everything and leave me alone.

 

If they want to charge for fluff like race and faction changes, server transfers and a mount or 2 every year like wow does, fine i can live with that. But if i have to actualy worry about how much money im spending on a game then i dont need to be playing that game.