ProfessorWalsh Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 And you are someone who doesn't even play a healer- that's also a fact, not twisting at all. Newsflash. I do have a healer. My Trooper alt is a healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malifor Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Throw a commando healer in there, and see if he can survive 1vs1, non warhero gear. people never said scoundrel healer was bad(best healer atm), it is sage and commando that got hit with the no longer useful stick. My merc healer is in only in full BM and I can manage at least 2 dps without help and still get get over 600k healing every wz, you just need to know how to play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunda Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 My merc healer is in only in full BM and I can manage at least 2 dps without help and still get get over 600k healing every wz, you just need to know how to play them. You aren't consistently pulling 600k healing in every warzone as any class, unless all you get are Voidstars that run the full duration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malifor Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 You aren't consistently pulling 600k healing in every warzone as any class, unless all you get are Voidstars that run the full duration. Voidstar, Alderaan, and Novare are all very simple to break 600k. Huttball is the only exception where I normally get 350-500k and over 600k on occasion. Also I said MERC healer, not any class... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunda Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Voidstar, Alderaan, and Novare are all very simple to break 600k. Huttball is the only exception where I normally get 350-500k and over 600k on occasion. Also I said MERC healer, not any class... Yeah, still not buying this. Unless you're somehow playing competitive games repeatedly that go the full duration, and you're not doing any running to or from objectives, that just isn't happening. I'm not doubting that you can get over 600k healing in any warzone, but you're not doing it regularly. The warzones simply don't last long enough on a consistent basis for this to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKfourtyseven Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) My merc healer is in only in full BM and I can manage at least 2 dps without help and still get get over 600k healing every wz, you just need to know how to play them. What server are you on? No merc healer is surviving me + another even remotely competent DPS without help (hell, even 1v1 they are going to need luck). The raw maths makes it impossible. Edited June 17, 2012 by AKfourtyseven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veeius Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 The reason I have to laugh when people imply that it's a bad thing that dps can take out healers 1v1 is this: If we can only stalemate healers 1v1, what do you think happens when a healer gets guard? And cross heals? And peels? They're unkillable. They're unkillable NOW. You want to buff them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneakypepper Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Healers are fine. Maybe give mercs a little buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Newsflash. I do have a healer. My Trooper alt is a healer. Uhuh, I'd love to see you in the 50 bracket, topping the charts and never dying. What level is your trooper? 15? I'm surprised you could stomach making a trooper after all the flame wars you starting talking them down years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pizzel Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) The reason I have to laugh when people imply that it's a bad thing that dps can take out healers 1v1 is this: If we can only stalemate healers 1v1, what do you think happens when a healer gets guard? And cross heals? And peels? They're unkillable. They're unkillable NOW. You want to buff them? I am kind of worried he is right. Now I haven't been able to get a 8 man team of my guild in a match yet on new server but Op healers guarded with others cross healing in 1.3 may b a joke. With burst being taken away and fully augged they will have more endurance. I just don't know. This pendulum switching thing worries me. I have a feeling once ranked starts there will be a lot QQing. not just about heals but some other things too... Edited June 17, 2012 by Pizzel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I am kind of worried he is right. Now I haven't been able to get a 8 man team of my guild in a match yet on new server but Op healers guarded with others cross healing in 1.3 may b a joke. With burst being taken away and fully augged they will have more endurance. I just don't know. This pendulum switching thing worries me. I have a feeling once ranked starts there will be a lot QQing. not just about heals but some other things too... Burst healing is taken away too- I know it's hard to believe but healers use adrenals/relics too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoKiei Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 With taunts and guard, operative healers are near impossible to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 Uhuh, I'd love to see you in the 50 bracket, topping the charts and never dying. What level is your trooper? 15? I'm surprised you could stomach making a trooper after all the flame wars you starting talking them down years ago. Yes very much so in the 50 bracket. No, I don't top the charts regularly and "never die" but I get to the 400k range now and again. Usually I am around 375, and yeah I die. As far as "talking down" Troopers, that was something I never did. I simply didn't and don't acknowledge the fanon (and yes, fanon, because even BioWare confirmed that they didn't make it so average troopers could kill average Jedi in this game's storyline regularly and that such a feat is rare) that they were buying into about Troopers being considered "on par" with Jedi. They aren't. The one that the PC represents? Sure. Game mechanics? Sure. Lore? No. My Trooper will tell anyone as much in RP as well. They straight up say that they won't face a Sith one on one because to do so without backup is to more or less commit suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pizzel Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) Burst healing is taken away too- I know it's hard to believe but healers use adrenals/relics too. I have a sage and an operative at 50 as well. Of course they do. Usually though against good equally geared player some classes completely rely on the chess match of when they are popping them vs the healer. It's what separated the goods from the bads. All I'm saying is we will see. Guarded operatives in 1.3 could be immortal. I hope I'm wrong. Edited June 18, 2012 by Pizzel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancelotOC Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) Guarded Ops will be immortal to who? A solo DPS. That's a one on two. A healer and a tank. Why should a solo person be able to kill one of two if its a tank and a healer.. can a solo person kill one of two DPS on them? Where are the cries for DPS class nerfs because you can't kill one when you are fighting two of them at the same time? When it's 2 DPS vs an OP and a tank can the 2 kill the OP? Probobly not , but is it because of the OP or is it because of the tank's detaunt? What happens when it's 2 DPS and a DPS and a tank. Same damn thing, the team with the tank wins. Why? Because of detaunt. So why are all the arguments about guarded healers always about nerfing healers and not nerfing tanks? Because most of these threads are started by tanks that can't kill even an unguarded healer solo. We healers are not the Devs.. we didn't code you tanks the way you are in PVP. Why not get DPS classes nerfed and leave us healers alone. We already took it in the teeth in 1.2 . Edited June 18, 2012 by LancelotOC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 guard + taunt stacking is the dumbest thing ever. 80% damage reduction is absolutely retarded, topple that with the opponents defensive CD's and you are just beating on a wall. You can't attack the healer because you are taunted and he's guarded and you can't attack the tank because he is just going to be spam healed. Taunts should not stack with guard, period. Despite that, healing is still too strong. Chasing around an operative healer who can run and spam heals is absolutely stupid. Beating on a merc healer who can't be interrupted with a shield up is beyond stupid. Healers should be a buffer, not an equalizer. Heals should never be able to out do dps ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterstoo Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I think as much as I dislike "the stomp" I will enjoy it more then hearing healers QQ all the time about how they should be able to FACETANK at least one dps. They also want to not be interupted over and over again by the so called herp a derp dps while FACETANKING them. How they should be immune to stuns, CC, etc. and to "have a chance". It is impossible to be interrupted ot stunned if you are out of range or out of line of sight, STOP FACETANKING. What chance do I get as a dps when I get ganged up on by 2 or 3 people and they CC, stun, root, own me? Why did you not see those 2 or 3 people coming? Why are you not hiding BEHIND your team. Since when are healers frontline fighters that 1v1 people? They are a support/group class, and do not HEAL the enemy. This is not wow, healers are not PvP tanks, we have "tanks" in this game already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I haven't seen any shortage of healers, nor have I seen them have any significant problems keeping their teams alive. Granted these were PUG teams but its hard to say healers "need buffs" when they have no issues keeping PUG groups alive. Of course, this is because all players who pick healers are just ultra skilled keyboard warriors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humankeg Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Just like any player just starting off (in not at least BM gear) healers will have problems. But, healers at low levels are at even more of a disadvantage as they cannot dish out the high damage (relative to HP) that even undergeared dps can do. In other words: *badly geared (fresh 50's, ect) healers are in a horrible place*average geared healers are in a bad place*bm/wh geared healers are more than fine, and ops healers can use a bit of a nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pizzel Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 The guy talking about taunts and guard stacking brings up some issues. The damage reduction on the healer is insane. Especially while constant dots are ticking and getting off heals. It's crazy. My issue isn't with the healers so much ( except operatives are much easier to heal with than my sage) it's the guard mechanic with tanks. I've been saying this when I tanked with my shadow that guard felt op. Maybe I'm crazy idk. I have 3 50s. Shadow, operative which I heal and a sage which I do both. That's my experience from behind the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostTown Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I think as much as I dislike "the stomp" I will enjoy it more then hearing healers QQ all the time about how they should be able to FACETANK at least one dps. They also want to not be interupted over and over again by the so called herp a derp dps while FACETANKING them. How they should be immune to stuns, CC, etc. and to "have a chance". It is impossible to be interrupted ot stunned if you are out of range or out of line of sight, STOP FACETANKING. What chance do I get as a dps when I get ganged up on by 2 or 3 people and they CC, stun, root, own me? Why did you not see those 2 or 3 people coming? Why are you not hiding BEHIND your team. Since when are healers frontline fighters that 1v1 people? They are a support/group class, and do not HEAL the enemy. This is not wow, healers are not PvP tanks, we have "tanks" in this game already. riiiiiiiiiiight... tell this to the dps that rudely ignores the tanks on my team and beelines it straight for me. yes healers can and will position themselves intelligently near pillars and on ledges, but in pvp no one worth their salt will attack an actual tank while there's a healer within range. in essence, healers are the tanks since they get the aggro when present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKfourtyseven Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 riiiiiiiiiiight... tell this to the dps that rudely ignores the tanks on my team and beelines it straight for me. yes healers can and will position themselves intelligently near pillars and on ledges, but in pvp no one worth their salt will attack an actual tank while there's a healer within range. in essence, healers are the tanks since they get the aggro when present. Which is why tanks need to put out sufficient damage to represent a credible threat in a fight, forcing the opposition to focus on them and not the healer. Shame BW decided to nerf tanks so this wont happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) Which is why tanks need to put out sufficient damage to represent a credible threat in a fight, forcing the opposition to focus on them and not the healer. Shame BW decided to nerf tanks so this wont happen... Just because DPS are attacking healers doesn't mean tanks should get a damage buff. That's really a stretch to tie those two things together. Tanks already can produce a significant amount of DPS and they guard healers. What more should they get? Its a great toolset already! And yes, I have a tank I use for PvP. Edited June 18, 2012 by Arkerus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKfourtyseven Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Just because DPS are attacking healers doesn't mean tanks should get a damage buff. That's really a stretch to tie those two things together. Tanks already can produce a significant amount of DPS and they guard healers. What more should they get? Its a great toolset already! And yes, I have a tank I use for PvP. Considering i can leap to a healer and ignore any tank (and i mean tank... tank spec, tank gear) who isnt powertech for the entire duration it takes me to kill the healer, then turn around and deal with the tank? The two are intrinsically connected. Tanks producing "significant" amounts of DPS? You must be talking about assassins in DPS gear or maybe Powertechs. You sure as hell arent talking about the Jugg/guardian in tank gear, i know that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Considering i can leap to a healer and ignore any tank (and i mean tank... tank spec, tank gear) who isnt powertech for the entire duration it takes me to kill the healer, then turn around and deal with the tank? The two are intrinsically connected. Tanks producing "significant" amounts of DPS? You must be talking about assassins in DPS gear or maybe Powertechs. You sure as hell arent talking about the Jugg/guardian in tank gear, i know that much. I wouldn't favor increasing tank DPS to Assassin levels, but there are other ways to make tanks a more legitimate pain in the hindquarters. In addition to stuns, I'd further capitalize on the "nuisance factor" that the tanks are supposed to provide by design. Something like one or several of the following. Low-cooldown roots, more, better interrupts (a la Annihilation Marauder with 6 sec main interrupt and a melee range charge with a reduced cooldown), better debuffs, like making the attacker take %% of the damage he's causing, unique specific buff-removing skills, like slapping Undying Rage off that Marauder, Entrench off that Sniper, etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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