Cmdluke Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Trust me, I'm a software engineer working in the game industry - I fully understand how resources are spent and understand that there are specific sets of people who work on specific problems - this particular problem does not need a client game programmer involved at all. It barely requires art resources and just some server engineers to facilitate the tech to achieve it and designers to work out logistics. Do you guys not understand what time investment means for MMO characters? Sure, I can simply reroll the character on the faction and server of my choosing - I understand that's what is expected, but I'd pay money to be able to continue playing my investment on another server or faction. At the end of the day, it's a money sink for BW who will start looking for new ways to justify the development of this game since the subscriber count isn't impressing. I understand the commitment to a single character as it took me 2 months to get to 50 on my main. I also understand that the technical requirements aren't too difficult. Do you understand that in this game, you can't just trigger a faction swap? Whether you care about it or not, SWTOR's main focus is story. If you just trigger a faction swap, it would not work for this game without a significant effort from the writers and designers. To make a faction swap fit into this game, you would have to create some sort of story around it. It's just not worth the extra time and effort when there are so many other things needed right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisronline Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 what games oh great game developer have you produced so that bioware may learn from your wisdom and fix every problem they could possibly have.... Just this one im glad you would pay money to actively not have to play the game.. im glad there are people out there like you, who prove time and time again that pay 2 win is a viable way to run an mmo. It's not paying to win - you understand that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasgallant Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 (edited) Just this one It's not paying to win - you understand that right? wait you are saying you worked on swtor,, and now are actively bashing it on the forums... you dont like your job much do ya.. and it is pay to win. and if this is allowed to continue or even start , then indeed it would only get worse and worse, and become p2w Edited June 14, 2012 by thomasgallant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyla Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Trust me, I'm a software engineer working in the game industry - I fully understand how resources are spent and understand that there are specific sets of people who work on specific problems - this particular problem does not need a client game programmer involved at all. It barely requires art resources and just some server engineers to facilitate the tech to achieve it and designers to work out logistics. Do you guys not understand what time investment means for MMO characters? Sure, I can simply reroll the character on the faction and server of my choosing - I understand that's what is expected, but I'd pay money to be able to continue playing my investment on another server or faction. At the end of the day, it's a money sink for BW who will start looking for new ways to justify the development of this game since the subscriber count isn't impressing. I perfectly understand what time investment means as I rerolled from a dead server to ToFN a few months ago. And being a software engineer myself too (while not in this industry) I think you are oversimplifying what needs to be done. I'm pretty sure some of our choices are stored in a database and would cause troubles in your new story that you don't care about but that will probably continue later this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisronline Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I understand the commitment to a single character as it took me 2 months to get to 50 on my main. I also understand that the technical requirements aren't too difficult. Do you understand that in this game, you can't just trigger a faction swap? Whether you care about it or not, SWTOR's main focus is story. If you just trigger a faction swap, it would not work for this game without a significant effort from the writers and designers. To make a faction swap fit into this game, you would have to create some sort of story around it. It's just not worth the extra time and effort when there are so many other things needed right now. I understand your point and agree mostly; the story is great and I love the unique aspect it gives to this game, especially because I love the lore of SW. For this faction swap to work, I don't expect ANY fiction around it concerning the story of your character. If I have a level 50 Sith Warrior that I faction swap to a Jedi Knight, I don't expect BW to facilitate a sideways story to explain why my character is now a Jedi Knight - I just expect the character to appear in my character screen as if I leveled a Jedi Knight - me, as a paying user of this service, am to expect that I just missed the entire story for this character and if I want to experience it, I have to roll the same class and play it through. I'm totally fine with that, but apparently in a super minority. I do want to experience each story as I find them very interesting, but I also want to play with my full WH on a new server with my friends! I want both and I feel this service gives me both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisronline Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I perfectly understand what time investment means as I rerolled from a dead server to ToFN a few months ago. And being a software engineer myself too (while not in this industry) I think you are oversimplifying what needs to be done. I'm pretty sure some of our choices are stored in a database and would cause troubles in your new story that you don't care about but that will probably continue later this year. Totally understand that concern - see my above post where I explain how I feel they should handle that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisronline Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 wait you are saying you worked on swtor,, and now are actively bashing it on the forums... you dont like your job much do ya.. and it is pay to win. and if this is allowed to continue or even start , then indeed it would only get worse and worse, and become p2w http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koyi_Aldira Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Play a Jedi Knight if you want to faction swap. They swap at the end of Act II. TWICE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdluke Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 (edited) I don't expect BW to facilitate a sideways story to explain why my character is now a Jedi Knight - I just expect the character to appear in my character screen as if I leveled a Jedi Knight - me, as a paying user of this service, am to expect that I just missed the entire story for this character and if I want to experience it, I have to roll the same class and play it through. But I think your expectations are misplaced. The story is the main part of this game. It's practically the only thing they talked about prior to release, so much so that became a running gag here on the forums. They aren't going to implement something like that without some sort of story surrounding it. And again, it would require more resources than they can afford to spare at the moment. Edited June 14, 2012 by Cmdluke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasgallant Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man you do know claiming to be an employee of bioware is against tos right:P i get your point and it was kinda dumb.. you design games thats good, and i am sure you are really good at it..probably... but like the other guynm said its likely more complicated than you are making it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdluke Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Play a Jedi Knight if you want to faction swap. They swap at the end of Act II. TWICE DAMN YOU!!!! Damn you for posting that! I knew i shouldn't have clicked, but I couldn't help myself!! Damn you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeres- Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I'll agree somewhat. Maybe make it to where you have to be level 50 and do a rather long quest line involving the Revanites (complete with cut scenes) and you dying and being reborn. Make it a 1 per char thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasgallant Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 DAMN YOU!!!! Damn you for posting that! I knew i shouldn't have clicked, but I couldn't help myself!! Damn you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol there is a sorta faction change for agent too. though i am just at it right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koyi_Aldira Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 DAMN YOU!!!! Damn you for posting that! I knew i shouldn't have clicked, but I couldn't help myself!! Damn you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's what the Spoiler tag is for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdluke Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 lol there is a sorta faction change for agent too. though i am just at it right now nooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!! you guys all suck!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasgallant Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I'll agree somewhat. Maybe make it to where you have to be level 50 and do a rather long quest line involving the Revanites (complete with cut scenes) and you dying and being reborn. Make it a 1 per char thing. id accept a level 50 then having to re roll to a level 1 opposite faction with the same name.. but thats about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasgallant Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 nooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!! you guys all suck!!!!! want another spoiler.... water is wet:P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdluke Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 That's what the Spoiler tag is for. I know. but you should have known that a spoiler tag would make me want to click it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisronline Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 (edited) But I think your expectations are misplaced. The story is the main part of this game. It's practically the only thing they talked about prior to release, so much so that became a running gag here on the forums. They aren't going to implement something like that without some sort of story surrounding it. And again, it would require more resources than they can afford to spare at the moment. If I'm not mistaken, one commonly mentioned "issue" with this game is the blend of character storyline and MMO end game - storyline matters so much while leveling whereas once you reach the max level, there is no progression and the game turns into a normal MMO where you are grinding out PvE/PvP gear - now, in my opinion, in order to the game to succeed, it needs to be concerned about how both ends are affected when making changes (like you pointed out) - and I totally agree with the amount of resources and time required to make the fiction work, which is why it's a paid service that goes outside of the context of the story aspect of the game. I don't think they should attempt to fix a storyline for each faction transfer; they just allow it without touching the storyline. Edited June 14, 2012 by chrisronline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdluke Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 want another spoiler.... water is wet:P luckily I've already discovered that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelationjp Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Switching factions means switching classes. They've said no to that already, but that's irrelevant. Switching classes means swapping story, possibly mid-stream, not to mention planet visitation order, gear that is class specific, companions whose stories are also happening and would have to be swapped out for new companions, changing your ship, having codex entries for a class you aren't anymore, titles that are class specific, etc... In other words, the whole thing is magnitudes more complicated than you'd like to believe. If it could be implemented in such a way that you actually defect through your storyline, that would be one thing. But that would require rewriting a huge chunk of every story line, and frankly, most of us would prefer new story and new content rather than such a huge time effort being put towards something that can be solved by playing a new character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdluke Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 If I'm not mistaken, one commonly mentioned "issue" with this game is the blend of character storyline and MMO end game - storyline matters so much while leveling whereas once you reach the max level, there is no progression and the game turns into a normal MMO where you are grinding out PvE/PvP gear - now, in my opinion, in order to the game to succeed, it needs to be concerned about how both ends are affected when making changes (like you pointed out) - and I totally agree with the amount of resources and time required to make the fiction work, which is why it's a paid service that goes outside of the context of the story aspect of the game. I don't think they should attempt to fix a storyline for each faction transfer; they just allow it without touching the storyline. the point is, each character has their own story. if you allow a faction change and don't validate it in the story somehow, it completely negates that character's story. Bioware would never do such a thing when all they've talked about what sets this game apart is story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koyi_Aldira Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Switching factions means switching classes. They've said no to that already, but that's irrelevant. Switching classes means swapping story, possibly mid-stream, not to mention planet visitation order, gear that is class specific, companions whose stories are also happening and would have to be swapped out for new companions, changing your ship, having codex entries for a class you aren't anymore, titles that are class specific, etc... In other words, the whole thing is magnitudes more complicated than you'd like to believe. If it could be implemented in such a way that you actually defect through your storyline, that would be one thing. But that would require rewriting a huge chunk of every story line, and frankly, most of us would prefer new story and new content rather than such a huge time effort being put towards something that can be solved by playing a new character. Not to mention the fact that while person A may want to make the change on Coruscant, person B wants to on Balmorra. The amount of work associated would be endless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisronline Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 (edited) the point is, each character has their own story. if you allow a faction change and don't validate it in the story somehow, it completely negates that character's story. Bioware would never do such a thing when all they've talked about what sets this game apart is story. I think they should consider it because of the filtering effect of bringing in extra money will have on the game - they lost subscribers and had to make cuts. Revenue will allow more resources to work on more stories and furthering the character narrative of the game. And what is lost? A small amount of dev time and people who choose to use this service lose out on a storyline (that they could go and reply especially since they could go the other advanced class)? Seems like they'd consider it Edited June 14, 2012 by chrisronline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfindreams Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Definitely no on this. It would break stories, create issues where certain things that were not available before (datacron and the like) are giving additional bonuses, and so on. And if you start to say "who cares about story" consider that @SWTOR's chosen bio is: "Play STAR WARS™: The Old Republic™ and forge your own Star Wars™ saga in a story-driven massively-multiplayer online game from BioWare and LucasArts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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