Rage>Vengeance?

[JayEmmKay]

My lvling story have been like this: 10-29 vengeance, 30-39 Immortal, 40-49 vengeance and lvl 50 rage. I have was pretty good at vengeance pre 50, but now i just think rage do more dmg overall.

This is my current rage build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MMZcMZRRRrdfRbfz.1¨

This is my vengeance build i try from time to time: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MMZsMroruddGRZMM.1

Do the rage build simply output more damage? Or have i gone shabby with vengeance since i went rage?

[Dracosz]

My lvling story have been like this: 10-29 vengeance, 30-39 Immortal, 40-49 vengeance and lvl 50 rage. I have was pretty good at vengeance pre 50, but now i just think rage do more dmg overall.

This is my current rage build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MMZcMZRRRrdfRbfz.1¨

This is my vengeance build i try from time to time: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MMZsMroruddGRZMM.1

Do the rage build simply output more damage? Or have i gone shabby with vengeance since i went rage?

 

Vengeance is gear dependant and scales very fast with it. Rage does too, but it starts off on a better foothold.

[Bare-Giin]

I'm valor rank 82 and I've been playin both specs alot and I'll come to the conclusion that vengeance is way better overall, but its just my opinion and how it works for me.. sure it can be fun run around and smash bomb everything u see but what happens when u miss u'r smash? or get knocked back after a charge? ...

If u just want big numbers fast (by fast i mean u dont have to be fully wh geared to see em) then rage is the way to go, but once u get wh augmented, vengeance overkills rage anyday..

[JayEmmKay]

I have never seen a miss with my smash in pvp ever, but maybe i have just been lucky.

[Bare-Giin]

I have never seen a miss with my smash in pvp ever, but maybe i have just been lucky.

 

aight so everytime u gonna smash pepz is like ooh he is gonna smash I'll stay and se what happens maybe candy will come from his *ss? u never get knocked back so u dont hit? if so then u'r facin some reeeal bad pugs or has mistaken pvp for the training dummy ;

 

just jokin with ya think u misunderstood what I meant m8

[Ghostuka]

Problem with rage built is knockbacks. 30% of the time you get knockbacks when you are about to throw a smash bomb. Also, whenever you charge to a ranged class, they stun/knockback almost reflexively and begin kiting.

 

Vengeance removes the knockbacks/stuns/interrupts for 4 seconds after charging, which lets you go through your rotation. Especially if the opponent is not paying attention and just waste their stun/knockback after you charge them, they become free kill right there.

[Veeius]

I'm valor rank 82 and I've been playin both specs alot and I'll come to the conclusion that vengeance is way better overall, but its just my opinion and how it works for me.. sure it can be fun run around and smash bomb everything u see but what happens when u miss u'r smash? or get knocked back after a charge? ...

If u just want big numbers fast (by fast i mean u dont have to be fully wh geared to see em) then rage is the way to go, but once u get wh augmented, vengeance overkills rage anyday..

 

I don't see where veng has any burst mechanics - I mean AT ALL. Veng damage is great, don't get me wrong. But you're not going to make a good healer panic with smooth sustained damage. I go in with rage, if the healer's at 60% health, and I'm ready to go, he's dead. With veng, I'll get him to 25% then all it's all "lol my free heal can keep up with your damage."

 

This is true until 1.3 at which point I have to find another main. :-(

[Xtrema]

I don't see where veng has any burst mechanics - I mean AT ALL.

 

Did you try veng in rage gear? Give it a real try and come back to us.

 

I go in with rage, if the healer's at 60% health, and I'm ready to go, he's dead.

 

When rage was still hitting regularly for 7-9k, yes. Not anymore dude, not the good healers...

 

With veng, I'll get him to 25% then all it's all "lol my free heal can keep up with your damage."

 

What are you talking about? Veng excels at finishing, vicious throw hits anywhere from 4-6k (geared too), finishing has never been an issue for me since switching to veng unless it's a marauder/sent in god mode. Seriously, give veng a real try. I did, and don't regret it, especially after 1.2 nerf (and the upcoming 1.3 nerf) to rage, it's worth a shot before u leave ur main.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Xtrema

[Bare-Giin]

I don't see where veng has any burst mechanics - I mean AT ALL.

 

so u mean that 4-5k impales followed by 5-6k vicious throws aint bursty? pooled hatred is daa shieeet .. and ravage hit like a truck also.. PLUS individual dots on shatter tick for like 700 for me, very useful against tanks cuz its force dmg =)

[Ahebish]

My lvling story have been like this: 10-29 vengeance, 30-39 Immortal, 40-49 vengeance and lvl 50 rage. I have was pretty good at vengeance pre 50, but now i just think rage do more dmg overall.

This is my current rage build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MMZcMZRRRrdfRbfz.1¨

This is my vengeance build i try from time to time: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MMZsMroruddGRZMM.1

Do the rage build simply output more damage? Or have i gone shabby with vengeance since i went rage?

 

Rage = High spike medium DPS

 

Vengeance = High DPS medium spike

 

The difference between the 2: Veng has more utility and builds rage faster.

 

Going hybrid route doesn't resolve the issue overall either. Rage is poor for rage generation... Vengeance is better, but hybrid lacks DPS vs true spec (though you may retain some utility once again compared to Rage spec)

 

Immortal = Ball carrier/meat shield in PVP.

 

Simplified of course.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Ahebish

[Ahebish]

I don't see where veng has any burst mechanics - I mean AT ALL. Veng damage is great, don't get me wrong. But you're not going to make a good healer panic with smooth sustained damage. I go in with rage, if the healer's at 60% health, and I'm ready to go, he's dead. With veng, I'll get him to 25% then all it's all "lol my free heal can keep up with your damage."

 

This is true until 1.3 at which point I have to find another main. :-(

 

Because you don't understand the mechanics of veng spec.

 

As I said before veng is a sustainable DPS spec... where as rage is a spike damage dealing spec.

 

Vengeance is a single target high dps spec

 

Rage is a AOE spike damage based spec. Timing your smash is just as important as using it consistantly to generate an acceptable DPS parse.

 

But Vengeance is a lot better at maintaining DPS it just doesn't spike as high in the short term.

 

For example: Assuming you use Enrage + Obliterate + Smash + Ravage: Over a 6 second duration Rage will always hit harder. Assuming avg. hits: 7000 on smash + 6000 on Ravage = 13,000 damage in 6 seconds but now smash is on a 9 second CD during this time Vengeance will make up the difference in damage if not surpass it.

 

Assuming you use Smash + SA + Impale + Force Scream + Shatter + Ravage But over a 10.5 second duration Vengeance should surpass rage due to high sustainable DPS. Assuming each skill hits for 1000 damage except for ravage = 11,000 damage over 10.5 seconds. This doesn't include dot tics either. Which adds probably another 400-500 damage per second for 6 seconds. or about an additional 2-3k damage in the same 10.5 second duration.

 

As soon as you throw in another skill as vengeance one that does 1000-2000 damage normally you just surpassed rage in sustainable DPS. But soon smash comes back and the DPS race is lopsided again until Vengeance builds another rotation of damage. It would probably always teeter back and forth but overall they are about equal. They are just different styles of play.

 

But watch out if someone is below 30% HP against a veng jug: They spike even harder then due to vicious throw.

 

These aren't exact values of course and are subject to change depending on player/gear.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Ahebish

[zxckakel]

Really? Venge for me is the best anti-healer esp against Sorcs/Sages, as Impale with pooled hatred can give you a spike from 3k-5k, outside pyrotechs/carnage marau's because of its sustained damage. One good rotation of Vengeance can hit around 17k+ damage

[Ahebish]

Really? Venge for me is the best anti-healer esp against Sorcs/Sages, as Impale with pooled hatred can give you a spike from 3k-5k, outside pyrotechs/carnage marau's because of its sustained damage. One good rotation of Vengeance can hit around 17k+ damage

 

I fought a merc healer 1v1 as veng spec... we fought for 10 minutes strait before I finally got him.... It was just one of those 1v1 fights in a wz where everyone left us alone.... after a few minutes it was a joke between us we wanted to see how high our damage and healing could get. Literally noone bothered us... we fought for 10 minutes strait before I finally got him. scored 400k damage that wz he had 400k healing lol. And yes that was through me interrupting him as often as I could and popping all my CD's as they came up.... same for him lol.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Ahebish

[zxckakel]

I fought a merc healer 1v1 as veng spec... we fought for 10 minutes strait before I finally got him.... It was just one of those 1v1 fights in a wz where everyone left us alone.... after a few minutes it was a joke between us we wanted to see how high our damage and healing could get. Literally noone bothered us... we fought for 10 minutes strait before I finally got him. scored 400k damage that wz he had 400k healing lol. And yes that was through me interrupting him as often as I could and popping all my CD's as they came up.... same for him lol.

 

yeah, about that.. I was focused more with sages/sorcs operatives and scoundrel. commandos/mercs are tougher to kill unless you have all of your boosts available.

[AllanGand]

merc healers are tricky to kill. you need to save your CC for when they pop their shield. If you can keep em stunned for the 6s of intimidating roar while their shield is popped and then force choke for the remainder of the duration you should be able to kill them fairly easy

[zxckakel]

merc healers are tricky to kill. you need to save your CC for when they pop their shield. If you can keep em stunned for the 6s of intimidating roar while their shield is popped and then force choke for the remainder of the duration you should be able to kill them fairly easy

 

True. In my case, I usually wait for another dps to gang up against a merc/commando because chasing a merc/commando for a good 1 min is almost losing the battle anyway.

[coldserpent]

Don't forget that Vengeance has a big talent that Rage doesn't(unless you go hybrid), and that's Unstoppable. Rage still suffers from that whole thing of when the big Popeye windup "thundercrap" move is about to hit, a knockback will mess up that mojo some. A Rage player is MUCH easier to "tilt" than a Vengeance player in that aspect.

[Ahebish]

yeah, about that.. I was focused more with sages/sorcs operatives and scoundrel. commandos/mercs are tougher to kill unless you have all of your boosts available.

 

Well there is a strategic merit for locking down a healer... it's not always about killing them.... but tying them up so they can't heal their teammates. Which is essentially what I was doing... I wasn't really trying to kill him but to keep him healing himself instead of his teammates.