NoTomorrow Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) Looking at how the game unfolds for fresh 50 i say that no other stats are so crippling for the players than endurance. 1200 of main stat or even less in recruit gear is nothing to look at. But i still can win duels with classes i am supposed to counter or even against lesser skilled but better geared players of my own class. Expertise? Its no big deal. Within a day I can sit already on 1000 expertise no problem (stacked coms pre50) by mixing recruit, 3 pcs of bm, and 2 pcs of wh gear. What really kills me is the low endurance. When a dps augmented warhero has over 18500 hp while i barely sit on 14500 this is where i die. Even with lower main stat, lower expertise, lower secondary stats i could hold my own and win a fair amount of duels with warhero ppl if i had just the same amount of endurance.. I guess the kicker here are also the augments that grant them 72 endurance at least.. Suggestions? I don't know, may be normalize endurance across all gear.. And make the main stat the primary driving force for progression. If My bm/wh sniper can kill a a 13000 hp gunslinger in 3 GCD with just a power relic than there is clearly a huge disadvantage here. It's not that he could win a duel with me if he same hp but at least he would have some chance to react, retreat and live to fight another day.. Edited June 13, 2012 by NoTomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethroin Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Looking at how the game unfolds for fresh 50... How about you take the 2 hours a day for one week, and get your full BM set. Toss the mods into five augmented armor pieces, and be 98.5% as effective as the guys in augmented war hero? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavensTerror Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Fortitude Stim... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosDogg Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) How about you take the 2 hours a day for one week, and get your full BM set. Toss the mods into five augmented armor pieces, and be 98.5% as effective as the guys in augmented war hero? And lose the bonuses from the set. There are a few things which I mentioned in another thread about being able to bridge the gap by optimizing your gear/stats early before you jump into the wh grind. I cba finding the post to quote it but you want to get your companion unlocks and crons to boost your stats. Buy your modded weapon(s) and augment it, throw away one piece of your BM into an augmented slot. Buy stims or level biochem for the rakata non-consumed crap. You'd be surprised how many people don't bother to do the simple things that give you a slight edge. These things cost quite a bit if you don't have any creds but you'll be surprised how fast you gain them if you know how to speed run dailies and vendor garbage. Regarding your thoughts on the low stats, don't forget this is an MMO so people who like to grind and better gear would cry if they didn't have the advantage. I understand that a lot of people in low gear will die a lot as a result and can't do anything about it. Bioware needs to improve the fundamentals of their pvp progression design in this aspect to bring stat gaps closer and incentivise pvp from both the low end and high end players. But alas, there is little to do apart from farming wz mindlessly and get your gear. Edited June 13, 2012 by ChaosDogg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Endurance is effective for all classes/specs, don't get me wrong, but certain classes perform better in "glass cannon" modes (meaning they pick up the gear with less primary stats due to the fact that they have more significant bonuses to certain secondary stats such as crit/power/surge/etc.). Classes that benefit most from gear (and/or hilts/mods/armoring/enhancements) that tend to modify primary attributes (main attribute + endurance) more than secondary attributes are typically classes that have some form of %-based method of survival such as annihilation marauder/madness sorcerers' reactive healing, or you could choose to apppear to be god-like as a juggernaut by popping endure pain + rakata med pacs (both of which temporarily increase health %-based upon their max). But... in full war hero gear, I can honestly say that I've stripped many of the mods/enhancements that had higher main stats in favor of higher sub-stats (after all, my madness sorc. can't get ANY self-healing unless his crit rate is high, no?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bpotux Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 How about ... No Why would or should a fresh 50 be on the same level as a full WH augmented player who spent massive amount of time and money getting there? Expertise is your MS, as you advance your VR gear comes with it. MS = PVE Exp = PVP It's that simple. Use a stim, truck on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 And lose the bonuses from the set. There are a few things which I mentioned in another thread about being able to bridge the gap by optimizing your gear/stats early before you jump into the wh grind. I cba finding the post to quote it but you want to get your companion unlocks and crons to boost your stats. Buy your modded weapon(s) and augment it, throw away one piece of your BM into an augmented slot. Buy stims or level biochem for the rakata non-consumed crap. You'd be surprised how many people don't bother to do the simple things that give you a slight edge. These things cost quite a bit if you don't have any creds but you'll be surprised how fast you gain them if you know how to speed run dailies and vendor garbage. Regarding your thoughts on the low stats, don't forget this is an MMO so people who like to grind and better gear would cry if they didn't have the advantage. I understand that a lot of people in low gear will die a lot as a result and can't do anything about it. Bioware needs to improve the fundamentals of their pvp progression design in this aspect to bring stat gaps closer and incentivise pvp from both the low end and high end players. But alas, there is little to do apart from farming wz mindlessly and get your gear. Actually... if you jump straight into the war hero grind early, you can begin using augmented gear sooner (while maintaining the set bonuses) - furthermore, not every class/spec happens to need set bonuses. Lastly - quit complaining about the gear grind from recruit into battlemaster (the most significant difference-maker): it doesn't take too terribly long to get to full BM gear (and likely pick up some WH pieces while you're grinding BM gear) - I think it took my carnage marauder 7 or 8 days of pvping (only enough to do dailies + weekly) to upgrade into full BM (with some war hero) - and honestly, carnage marauder has to be one of the worst classes/specs to play when undergeared - I went in to every match assuming I would be losing - fortunately, I wasn't the only person starting to gear-grind an alt, so wins can/will occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKfourtyseven Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Fortitude Stim... The end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 How about ... No Why would or should a fresh 50 be on the same level as a full WH augmented player who spent massive amount of time and money getting there? Expertise is your MS, as you advance your VR gear comes with it. MS = PVE Exp = PVP It's that simple. Use a stim, truck on. ^^ Mostly agree here. But you will see some geared players that are STILL bad... (always were, always will be) and then there's always the chance that a geared player will see an ungeared player going off on him dealing very little damage so they might decide to face-tank them (can be a very bad idea if you're a sorc/sage and the enemy happens to be a carnage/combat mara/sent - I did this to a sage on my carny - he began to ignore me, so I popped relic/adrenal/berserk and spammed massacre with a gore proc) then again, it's safe to say he certainly never tried to face-tank that recruit-geared toon of mine [at the time] again - most of the properly geared players know better than to let a mistake happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaltastic Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 What I want to know is why all the daily flavors of this thread are not locked by BioWare with the statement: We already have an existing thread entitled "I am a PvE god, this should entitle me to faceroll in PvP. We ask that you consolidate all of your discussion on why you think life isn't fair here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComeAndSee Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Recruit Gear is adequate to get you started. Getting BM gear is very fast and takes only a week or two doing your daily to get a full set. It really comes down to the skill of the players. I mean I was a recruit geared Sage and I could kite around Marauders. My health pool hasn't changed much (14k vs 17k) and I have 3 pieces of WH armorings and full BM. Sages scale like crap with endurance. =/ My Vanguard gained over 2k HP from BM to WH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talsyrius Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) I don't really understand the discussion here. If you want to pvp, you start by buying all recruit gear, and then farm the coresponding battle master gear, and eventually war hero. First when you have full war hero the swapping of mods should begin for an efficient gear obtaining speed. If the next tier of gear have more endurance, so much the better, but it's not like you have a choice. Edited June 13, 2012 by Talsyrius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bpotux Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I don't really understand the discussion here. If you want to pvp, you start by buying all recruit gear, and then farm the coresponding battle master gear, and eventually war hero. First when you have full war hero the swapping of mods should begin for an efficient gear obtaining speed. If the next tier of gear have more endurance, so much the better, but it's not like you have a choice. OP wants to be able to hit 50 and have same HP and Expertise as those that have ground out full WH set and have the only difference between him and them be his Main Stat, because he can't beat "noob" players by his standards who are in WH gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talsyrius Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 OP wants to be able to hit 50 and have same HP and Expertise as those that have ground out full WH set and have the only difference between him and them be his Main Stat, because he can't beat "noob" players by his standards who are in WH gear. Then when we are at it, we should make the max level 1, and give everyone the exact same stats, and have gear only affecting how we look. What a great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I don't think TTK is the problem. Its the fact that PvP gear sacrifices a ton of endurance for expertise. Its odd that they choose to lower endurance so much and use it to create expertise. Why not lower them all equally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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