Slowpokeking Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Is it only possible to get it from superior Sith during the time of TOR? I think the SI should be a Darth after defeated Zash since he/she succeed Zash's stuff. Also SW didn't become Darth until the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaczuszka Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 what would be the point of getting highest sith title when you defeat your master its better if you become a lord plus zash was weak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarathis Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 The title of Darth is something that has to be agreed upon and conferred by the Dark Council. Even though Zash inherited Darth Skotia's office and responsibilities, she didn't actually succeed his title as well. She had to cajole the Council into conferring that as a separate honor. Frankly, I'm surprised they did so and probably only did it because they were wary of her and wanted to keep an eye on her. There's also the fact that she's a human with Sith blood inside of her and the proper background to recommend advancement. Regardless of race, your Sith Inquisitor is working to overcome a lot of social obstacles to rise in the ranks coming from slavery as he / she does. You may succeed her responsibilities but not her title. At least not yet. As for the SW storyline, Baras does his best to downplay your accomplishments to the Council and later on denounces you to them. Although you have an impressive career as a young Sith Lord it's not until you expose Baras's treachery and topple his power base with the sponsorship of another member of the Dark Council that you qualify for the Darth title. Long story short, it takes a lot of time, effort, and accomplishments to be seen as being worthy of the Darth title. Even though receiving it in the game is something of a plot device, BW does a good job of making your character earn it through lots of hard work. It takes a ton of recognition from the Dark Council to have it bestowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slift Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Being before the rule of two, 'Darth' is a VERY prestigious title. It takes years of dedication to the Empire and hard work. One can earn it 'instantly', but it requires a momentous task. (Such as Baras earning his Darth title during the sacking of Curoscant) Darth in the ToR days is basically saying you are... Above the rest in power, strength and service to the empire. If you take note, Darths don't have to wuss about behind people's backs as much as other Sith need to... A Darth says, people DO out of respect for the position and the power it gives. Really, if anything... It's absolutely AMAZING that the SI and SW get the title at all... Usually one is in their late thirties to early sixties when they earn the title, if ever. A far cry from the twenty somethings the characters usually are portrayed being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share Posted June 12, 2012 The title of Darth is something that has to be agreed upon and conferred by the Dark Council. Even though Zash inherited Darth Skotia's office and responsibilities, she didn't actually succeed his title as well. She had to cajole the Council into conferring that as a separate honor. Frankly, I'm surprised they did so and probably only did it because they were wary of her and wanted to keep an eye on her. There's also the fact that she's a human with Sith blood inside of her and the proper background to recommend advancement. Regardless of race, your Sith Inquisitor is working to overcome a lot of social obstacles to rise in the ranks coming from slavery as he / she does. You may succeed her responsibilities but not her title. At least not yet. As for the SW storyline, Baras does his best to downplay your accomplishments to the Council and later on denounces you to them. Although you have an impressive career as a young Sith Lord it's not until you expose Baras's treachery and topple his power base with the sponsorship of another member of the Dark Council that you qualify for the Darth title. No, Thanaton wasn't a council member at that time but he still gave Zash the Darth title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slift Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 No, Thanaton wasn't a council member at that time but he still gave Zash the Darth title. Sorry. But he was. After killing Exal Kressh on Koriban in 3678 BBY... He got his Darth title and became a member of the Dark Council. Why? There's a GOOD reason... He did something HUGE. Part of who Exal Kressh was. (Something I'll not spoil here) Since the Treaty of Coruscant was signed in 3653... He had sat on the council for 25 years by that point. 37 by 3641 when the SI kills him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranadiel_Marius Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Sorry. But he was. After killing Exal Kressh on Koriban in 3678 BBY... He got his Darth title and became a member of the Dark Council. Why? There's a GOOD reason... He did something HUGE. Part of who Exal Kressh was. (Something I'll not spoil here) Since the Treaty of Coruscant was signed in 3653... He had sat on the council for 25 years by that point. 37 by 3641 when the SI kills him No it is clearly stated in the game that Thanaton only gets his Dark Council seat after sometime Chapter 2. I don't remember for sure which planet the conversation occurs after, but it is one of the ones with Moff Pyron during Chapter 3. I'm thinking it is the conversation after Belsavis, but I might be wrong on that. The specific line is: I trust you've heard the bad news. Darth Thanaton's superior on the Dark Council died--mysteriously. Darth Thanaton has succeeded him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share Posted June 12, 2012 He got it when the SI character was on Belsavis and get the mother machine to heal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slift Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) No it is clearly stated in the game that Thanaton only gets his Dark Council seat after sometime Chapter 2. I don't remember for sure which planet the conversation occurs after, but it is one of the ones with Moff Pyron during Chapter 3. I'm thinking it is the conversation after Belsavis, but I might be wrong on that. The specific line is: Then the game is in conflict with the comic 'The Old Republic: Empire of Blood' In Empire of blood, Thanaton kills Exal Kressh and trades what she is and the Emperor's plans for her in return for his title and seat on the council. Since the comic was written by Alexander Freed... And on this very website until being released in print form by Dark Horse comics... I'm siding with that. However, that's... Personal opinion I'd wager with the odd removal of 37 years of the Darth's service. Which is canon? I'd wager the comic, but I'm not betting money. Edited June 12, 2012 by Slift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temeluchus Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Is it only possible to get it from superior Sith during the time of TOR? I think the SI should be a Darth after defeated Zash since he/she succeed Zash's stuff. Also SW didn't become Darth until the end. The SW not becoming a Darth until the end is a side effect of BioWare changing the SW's end title from <Character's Name>,The Emperor's Wrath to plain ole Darth in beta. They just never got around to changing the story and cutscenes to reflect this or just decided it wasn't wroth the effort. Killing a Darth doesn't automatically qualify one to become a Darth themselves. It's given after demonstrating mastery of the Sith ways and philosophy and a multitude of extraordinary accomplishments. Even with this not being a Rule of Two era and the Empire seemingly handing out the Darth title like candy, it's still a prestigious title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashu-ri Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Then the game is in conflict with the comic 'The Old Republic: Empire of Blood' In Empire of blood, Thanaton kills Exal Kressh and trades what she is and the Emperor's plans for her in return for his title and seat on the council. Since the comic was written by Alexander Freed... And on this very website until being released in print form by Dark Horse comics... I'm siding with that. However, that's... Personal opinion I'd wager with the odd removal of 37 years of the Darth's service. Which is canon? I'd wager the comic, but I'm not betting money. Actually, in the law of Canon, comic books rank lower than video games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slift Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 (edited) Actually, in the law of Canon, comic books rank lower than video games. In Star Wars canoninity, they're both 'C-Canon'. Books, Video Games, Comics, Fact Files, etc. They're below 'G-Canon' or Lucas' films and 'T-Canon' or TV shows. In any case... 'His superior on the council died... Took his place, blah blah' That... Doesn't say he wasn't on the council, just that whoever was above him died and he moved up the ranks. Obviously, even within the dark council the Sith there have their power plays and 'worth', we've seen as much in the SW storyline. I can see where one can read it that he moved onto the council... But... Wow, if Zash gets her ear chewed off for Skotia's murder (Skotia being VASTLY superior to Zash's station, Thanaton's apprentice or not), how much trouble would Thanaton be in if he murdered a council member just to get on it? The only logical reasoning of him not being publicly executed for threatening the Emperor's will (Er. Sorta.) is he's on the council and part of that little clique of Sith. We've seen power plays of threatening and murdering Council members is fine... If you're on the council (or 'better') in the SW story. Edited June 14, 2012 by Slift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erevan_Kindelar Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 During the last situation before the end of Act 1, Zash tells you that she has arranged for you to be given the rank of "Lord" where previously you had just been her apprentice, although her reasons for that promotion were obviously not as generous as they appeared at that particular moment. Given the events that occur between that announcement and the start of Act 2, there is nothing to justify being promoted from Apprentice > Lord > Darth so quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranadiel_Marius Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 In any case... 'His superior on the council died... Took his place, blah blah' That... Doesn't say he wasn't on the council, just that whoever was above him died and he moved up the ranks. Obviously, even within the dark council the Sith there have their power plays and 'worth', we've seen as much in the SW storyline. I can see where one can read it that he moved onto the council... But... Wow, if Zash gets her ear chewed off for Skotia's murder (Skotia being VASTLY superior to Zash's station, Thanaton's apprentice or not), how much trouble would Thanaton be in if he murdered a council member just to get on it? The only logical reasoning of him not being publicly executed for threatening the Emperor's will (Er. Sorta.) is he's on the council and part of that little clique of Sith. We've seen power plays of threatening and murdering Council members is fine... If you're on the council (or 'better') in the SW story. .....If he is on the Council he doesn't have a superior on the Council. The 12 Council members represent the 12 pyramids(which we do not have a full accounting of atm) and therefore the Dark Council members are not subservient to the other members of the Council(well okay everyone is second to Darth Marr and Darth Vowarawn but that is a case of awesomeness not actual position). And he would be in no trouble for murdering a Council member(note that we don't know for sure that he did or not). Darth Baras got his position by murdering his master on the Dark Council. The SI got his position by beating up a member of the Dark Council. Killing a Dark Council member is the fastest and probably most common way of getting on the Dark Council. The only people who get uppity about murdering other Sith are Darth Thanaton, Overseer Harkun, and the authorities in one of the side quests on Dromuund Kaas. And arguably Harkun wasn't upset one bit over the murder but only over how unskillful it was. The Dromuund Kaas authorities were upset for mostly the same reasons. No one else is surprised or outraged about Sith murdering other Sith. Oh here is the relevant datacron entry(87) snippet on the subject: Teneb Kel reported to the Dark Council and struck a bargain: make him a Darth, and he would share what he knew of the Emperor's intentions. Teneb chose the name of the guide from his vision on Lenico, Darth Thanaton. Nothing about him joining the Dark Council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slift Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 .....If he is on the Council he doesn't have a superior on the Council. The 12 Council members represent the 12 pyramids(which we do not have a full accounting of atm) and therefore the Dark Council members are not subservient to the other members of the Council(well okay everyone is second to Darth Marr and Darth Vowarawn but that is a case of awesomeness not actual position). And he would be in no trouble for murdering a Council member(note that we don't know for sure that he did or not). Darth Baras got his position by murdering his master on the Dark Council. The SI got his position by beating up a member of the Dark Council. Killing a Dark Council member is the fastest and probably most common way of getting on the Dark Council. The only people who get uppity about murdering other Sith are Darth Thanaton, Overseer Harkun, and the authorities in one of the side quests on Dromuund Kaas. And arguably Harkun wasn't upset one bit over the murder but only over how unskillful it was. The Dromuund Kaas authorities were upset for mostly the same reasons. No one else is surprised or outraged about Sith murdering other Sith. Oh here is the relevant datacron entry(87) snippet on the subject: Nothing about him joining the Dark Council. To the twitter, someone ask Leland Chee to clear this up? We're not really getting anywhere but back and forth on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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