And what are roleplayers getting with these updates?

[DarthMors]

wow people today are spoiled. Try roleplaying with pen, paper, and dice then tell me swtor gives you nothing to rp with.

 

absolutely!

btw...chat bubbles are for comic books.

Edited June 12, 2012 by DarthMors

[Polyneux]

A roleplayer should not depend on any system to do their work for them.

 

I do not need to see your character physically sitting down to understand that the character is sitting down? Why? Even if they do add /sitinachair there's a million other things you're doing that wont have scripted actions.

 

When you roleplay in a game you are BORROWING the system and the mechanics. You shouldnt be using it to REPLACE what you are doing, which is creative writing. Some games make it easier than others, some don't.

 

The fun of roleplaying on an MMO or any other game (JKA) is finding creative ways to use the tools they give us to work.

 

This is why I was hesitant to start roleplaying in games rather than on forums etc. Because it takes the imagination out of it. What's sad is you're going to run into players who think that it is only possible to do one of four jobs in the Star Wars Universe, or that it is only possible to be a handful of races. My imagination works great though, so I don't need all the bells and whistles.

 

Keep in mind, despite the popularity with the Star Wars theme we are the vast minority.

[Sylvan]

All MMO based roleplay is almost 100% focussed on the text we use to make our characters speak and act. If you cannot understand how having no chat bubbles combined with the chat reading range being huge (IE, if I'm in a cantina, I have to read everyone's words within a massive radius, which can be intense) really limits our ability to RP, that is your lack of understanding.

 

I and others have said all that needs to be said.

 

I quit SWTOR because I found the RP boring. However I was an avid PvP'er and Ops runner. No big deal for anyone particularly. But servers are dead because Bioware are not meeting player's needs, and this includes roleplayers. So laugh away kids. You are smirking at the gradual decline of a game you still pay for.

 

/tiphat.

[Kraye]

Nothing it seems.

 

I don't see any updates or improvements for roleplayers or people who like to create custom events.

 

We still don't have chat bubbles, the number 1 thing roleplayers have been asking for since waaaay before launch and it can't be done seemingly.

 

I cancelled my sub because this game really fails at critical levels if you like to spend even half your timing roleplaying. I understand the roleplaying community is something of a minority so we should not get priority. That said, there are lots of pure RP servers, so clearly there is a playerbase there of many tens of thousands. We deserve some attention

 

tsk tsk.

 

Chat bubbles aside, you want to RP and have RP tools in a theme-park MMO......THEME-PARK. You should be expecting just about ZERO or slightly above in developer attention to service roleplay. This isn't a sandbox, you are getting all upset over something you should have already known the answer to before even purchasing SWTOR.

[Sunstarr]

All MMO based roleplay is almost 100% focussed on the text we use to make our characters speak and act. If you cannot understand how having no chat bubbles combined with the chat reading range being huge (IE, if I'm in a cantina, I have to read everyone's words within a massive radius, which can be intense) really limits our ability to RP, that is your lack of understanding.

 

I and others have said all that needs to be said.

 

I quit SWTOR because I found the RP boring. However I was an avid PvP'er and Ops runner. No big deal for anyone particularly. But servers are dead because Bioware are not meeting player's needs, and this includes roleplayers. So laugh away kids. You are smirking at the gradual decline of a game you still pay for.

 

/tiphat.

 

Its understood quite clearly. You are missing the point. Chat bubbles are not a priority right now. Other fixes are.

 

The only limits placed on RP are the ones you instigate yourself.

[Dezzi]

Do chat bubbles make or break the game as it pertains to doing missions, flashpoints, PVP? No. Game mechanics are defined as those happy lines of code that allow you to walk, run, fight, things that matter to the game itself, not so much to "social aspects". User interfaces, skills, crafting, things like this are game mechanics. You do not need these game mechanics to RP. You DO need them in order to play without error, to level, to create things, etc. It is these game mechanics that are required to be continually fixed before we start causing an uproar because .1% of the game population wants chat bubbles or other RP based/focused fluff. This is not a new concept.

 

To your first query, no, I am not talking about two different kinds of role play. Interacting with other player characters is role-playing, I am not talking about integrated storyline here (which is provided by game and game mechanics to make the leveling more enjoyable), I am talking about honest to goodness CHARACTER INTERACTION all the way from 1 to 50 as was and still is my experience on Ebon Hawk. No chairs, no bubbles. Didn't impact on my ability to RP with others, Others didn't seem to care that they couldn't sit down visually, rather, they simply took the time and effort to emote it, to which aided to inform everyone involved what was going on.

 

That kind of collaborative effort is what RP is about.

 

Like I and may others here have stated. RP is what YOU as a PLAYER makes it to be. IF a person is that short sighted to say, or think, that because a character cant sit in a chair (visually) or cant "see" what is being said, then said individual is truly a lazy RP'er. Rather than wait around and hope or ***** and complain because of a lack of fluff, start thinking outside the box and work with what is available. I'm sure you might find your RP pleasure experience increased. People learn by example, start setting one. This is what starts to build community.

Short sighted? Lazy roleplayer? No, it's a person who spends $15 /mo to roleplay in a viritual world as opposed to at his table--which he can do for free. There's an expectation of something more.

 

Way to miss the point completely.

Wow people today are spoiled. Try roleplaying with pen, paper, and dice then tell me swtor gives you nothing to rp with.

So what is PvP, but two kids with nerf guns? PvE is just a kid, a magnifying glass, and an ant hill.

 

Look, the point is that table top roleplaying is free. Free. Roleplaying in an MMO costs $15 /mo. Other playstyles get lots of support for their $15, but roleplayers have to scrape the barrel. That's expected, but how long do they have to scrape the barrel before they move onto other games?

 

All of these people arguing against the implementation of chat bubbles are deluded. Other games have them, most of them before launch. The fact of the matter here is that we have a game that was light on content and features at launch, and even more so if you're a roleplayer.

 

My imagination is free. So why am I paying $15 /mo to use all of my imagination in SWTOR when I can pay the same (or nothing at all) to roleplay in a game that makes the experience much much more enjoyable?

 

The answer is this: I'm no longer paying to play SWTOR. That's on BioWare.

[Dezzi]

Chat bubbles aside, you want to RP and have RP tools in a theme-park MMO......THEME-PARK. You should be expecting just about ZERO or slightly above in developer attention to service roleplay. This isn't a sandbox, you are getting all upset over something you should have already known the answer to before even purchasing SWTOR.

 

Roleplay != sandbox.

 

Sorry.

[Kraye]

Its understood quite clearly. You are missing the point. Chat bubbles are not a priority right now. Other fixes are.

 

The only limits placed on RP are the ones you instigate yourself.

 

Well, no. There are limits to RP, without question, you are wrong. SWTOR offers little in the way of tools to RP because its a theme-park and not priority. Sandbox mmo's offer a multitude of of RP options and are generally far better for RP.

[Dezzi]

The only limits placed on RP are the ones you instigate yourself.

 

That's not the point.

 

What are roleplayers paying for here? Access to a virtual world? Good. So what are those same people paying for in other games? Access to a virtual world plus ease of use and tools that enrich the experience like chat bubbles, barber shops, and chairs you can sit in.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Dezzi

[Sunstarr]

That's not the point.

 

What are roleplayers paying for here? Access to a virtual world? Good. So what are those same people paying for in other games? Access to a virtual world plus ease of use and tools that enrich the experience like barber shops and chairs you can sit in.

 

It is EXACTLY the point.

 

What ease of use? In those "other games" the world does not change, it remains static, unless expansions change them, and has no bearing whatsoever on what your character does or did. You as a player have no impact on the world through your actions. Barber shops for changing your look? Social gear does not allow you to customize your character anymore? Las I checked it did. Lots of people (whether they admit it or not) go out of thier way to make thier character look a certain way, myself included, and I have lots of outfits from which to chose from already.

 

I dare say that those same people pay for a subscription to take part in all the aspects of said MMO. Levelling, PVP and RP, crafting, collecting, etc. RPers are not the special snowflakes most would like to think they are.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Sunstarr

[Dezzi]

It is EXACTLY the point.

 

What ease of use? In those "other games" the world does not change, it remains static, unless expansions change them, and has no bearing whatsoever on what your character does or did. You as a player have no impact on the world through your actions. Barber shops for changing your look? Social gear does not allow you to customize your character anymore? Las I checked it did. Lots of people (whether they admit it or not) go out of thier way to make thier character look a certain way, myself included, and I have lots of outfits from which to chose from already.

 

I dare say that those same people pay for a subscription to take part in all the aspects of said MMO. Levelling, PVP and RP, crafting, collecting, etc. RPers are not the special snowflakes most would like to think they are.

 

You're again branching into a different kind of roleplay. World choices have nothing to do with my roleplay with a friend. Absolutely none. Not that this game gives you any options to change the world anyway...

 

Barber shops for changing your character's physical appearance--not their clothing or armor. Yes. Where is that here? It's been asked for since beta and I don't believe we'd heard much other than "We want to do it." I believe it was Damion, the King of SoonTM, who said so. In terms of armor, other games provide dyes and transfiguration kits that do precisely the same without the needless barriers to do so and still remain effective in other aspects of gameplay (orange item mods). SWTOR went for a unique feature, but ended up with another clunky feature.

 

As an added note, adaptive armor is on the test server which means it's still some time off. So you're arguing that the game supports roleplay by pointing to a feature that doesn't exist yet on the live servers. Would you say, then, that they've dropped the ball for the last six months when it comes to appearance?

 

Nice ad hominem. No one here thinks they're a special snowflake--they just want to be treated like everyone else.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Dezzi

[Polyneux]

I hope you are spending 15$ a month for a game that you play. Not to sit around in a cantina and fling chat at each other... Because you can do that in a chat room.

 

Any roleplayer who's worth his salt can roleplay anywhere, with anything. Personally, I have NEVER played anywhere with "chat bubbles". I hate the way they look I hate the way they metacommunicate to players on a subconscious level. I hate the way they assume action as fact. I love the way regular chat allows you to manipulate things.

 

You can turn chats off, you can create channels, you can party, guild, and PM.

 

If you're telling me the only things keeping you from RP -anywhere- not just on TOR is chat bubbles, barber shops, and armor mods then yes, you are missing the point of roleplay. If you're 'unsubbing' because of the lack of them then maybe you shouldn't have subbed in the first place.

 

Everyone who says RP is limited by the limitations you place on it is absolutely correct.

 

Because I will log the hell on right now and RP a Hutt and you won't say **** to me, I don't care if you look at your screen and see a human.

 

You're losing sight of what it is, you're creating a story with your friends, you're acting out a story with your friends. You can do this on a forum, on a chatroom, anywhere. You just happen to be dong it in TOR. NEVER did they say that they are a haven for the hardcore text rpers or the Starsiders. Guess what, neither did SWG. Neither did any other Trade MMO. RP communities spring up on their own, they aren't placed by the manufacturers. And good game being so disenfranchised by RP on TOR, because I have a bookmark folder full of guilds and player organizations that are doing just fine.

 

RP the way we play is a bonus, not a must-have. It is an "if you build it they will come" type of thing. I don't need to see art and character models to envision what is being said. It is a bonus but not necessary. Then again I guess I'm from the "dark ages" where all we had and could expect for RP was text.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Polyneux

[Sunstarr]

And yet, when people read posts like (or similar to) the OP's yes, the "special snowflake" ideology comes to mind. The "I want, I want, I want, and thus everyone else must want too" card gets played out far too often in this "entitled" generation. If role-players want to be treated like everyone else, then we too, can be patient and wait just like everyone else. More important things are needing to be looked at right now and things will come in time, just like in other games, where we waited for years before getting things like transmorgification.

 

What I am saying, and HAVE been saying is that players need to start doing things for themselves when it comes to role-playing, and stop relying on special fluff to "make" the experience better. Theres been many examples in this thread alone on how to do it.

 

I will repeat this in case it was missed first time around. If role-players want to be treated like everyone else, then we too, can be patient and wait. Make do with what we have currently. Think outside the box. Start implementing your ideas. Use the tools that you have currently, starting with your brain. You do not need bubbles, chairs, barber shops, transmorphing stations, ect to be able to make your RP memorable and enjoyable. That is what character interactions and collaberation is for, and no fluff, no game mechanic, no chat bubble, no chair, no barber shop is going to do that for you.

[Dezzi]

And yet, when people read posts like (or similar to) the OP's yes, the "special snowflake" ideology comes to mind. The "I want, I want, I want, and thus everyone else must want too" card gets played out far too often in this "entitled" generation. If role-players want to be treated like everyone else, then we too, can be patient and wait just like everyone else. More important things are needing to be looked at right now and things will come in time, just like in other games, where we waited for years before getting things like transmorgification.

 

What I am saying, and HAVE been saying is that players need to start doing things for themselves when it comes to role-playing, and stop relying on special fluff to "make" the experience better. Theres been many examples in this thread alone on how to do it.

 

I will repeat this in case it was missed first time around. If role-players want to be treated like everyone else, then we too, can be patient and wait. Make do with what we have currently. Think outside the box. Start implementing your ideas. Use the tools that you have currently, starting with your brain. You do not need bubbles, chairs, barber shops, transmorphing stations, ect to be able to make your RP memorable and enjoyable. That is what character interactions and collaberation is for, and no fluff, no game mechanic, no chat bubble, no chair, no barber shop is going to do that for you.

 

Or... I can go to a game that has those things, adding my name to the list of 1.1 million people who are no longer here playing SWTOR. That's not good for you or BioWare, because I wouldn't be (nor am I) the only one leaving for this reason.

 

I'd rather be here. I'm a big Star Wars buff. But the value of the experience, as a monetary issue, is far more valuable in other games that provide the services I expect to be present to facilitate a more enjoyable experience. You're right that none of it is necessary, but that's a pretty lame argument to stand on when the same can be said about anything in the game. None of this is necessary.

 

I guess I just don't understand why people would argue against the inclusion of new features--especially features that anyone can use regardless of how they play the game (as opposed to a LFG tool or ranked warzones which will do nothing for me as a roleplayer). It boggles my mind that there are players out there who go out of their way to very vocally advocate against things other players want to have a better experience. It doesn't make sense.

 

You make it sound as if the inclusion of these features could hurt the game...

Edited June 12, 2012 by Dezzi

[Polyneux]

If you could kindly list all the "other" Star Wars games that conveniently bring hundreds of like-minded fans together. I would gladly check them out.

 

No one is arguing against the inclusion of new features. We are arguing about you complaining about not getting any new features when players are sitting by themselves on servers, Genchat is being spammed with LFGs, and 50s have nothing to do. These are actual GAME problems. RP is not a "game" problem.

 

Personally I don't see much issue with the current set of features that we have to use as roleplayers. Frankly, I've played with much worse and much better. Sure you want more and that's fine, no one argues that. But the attacking way you're going about it gives everyone a bad taste in their mouth. Especially seasoned RPers who have worked with much less.

 

Edit:

As I said before. This is a game and you should be playing it, that is what you're paying for. If all you want to do is RP then you could do it elsewhere with way more features, and way less money. I am a RPer, sure I will make trash toons for my fancy, but I will also level some up to 50, and play in PVP, and take advantage of the other features that I am paying for. Half the RP-friendly features of SWG didn't exist until two, three, or more years into the game.

 

The statement is not "If you want to RP Star Wars then it must be on TOR." it is "IF you would like to RP Star Wars on TOR..." and that's the way it should be for every game.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Polyneux

[Javaans]

I would like to know when will be adding a barber shop for example. Nothing is not priority

[Dezzi]

If you could kindly list all the "other" Star Wars games that conveniently bring hundreds of like-minded fans together. I would gladly check them out.

 

No one is arguing against the inclusion of new features. We are arguing about you complaining about not getting any new features when players are sitting by themselves on servers, Genchat is being spammed with LFGs, and 50s have nothing to do. These are actual GAME problems. RP is not a "game" problem.

 

Personally I don't see much issue with the current set of features that we have to use as roleplayers. Frankly, I've played with much worse and much better. Sure you want more and that's fine, no one argues that. But the attacking way you're going about it gives everyone a bad taste in their mouth. Especially seasoned RPers who have worked with much less.

 

They shut down one of the best for doing just that. A coincidence that it occurred before a new Star Wars MMO was released? I think not. Though it really doesn't matter what setting the game is in, provided it supports our ability to roleplay.

 

Woah woah woah. I've attacked nothing. The fact is, when it comes to features that other games have had earlier (and at launch), SWTOR is behind. It's not attacking anything to point that out.

 

And what's this about seasoned roleplayers who have worked with much less? Is that an appeal to authority? Experience?

 

I've been roleplaying for twelve years. I've done it all--table top, live action, MMO, single-player, storycraft, in-character blogging, instant messengers, and forum communities. Who cares what you or I have done when it doesn't change the fact that this game--when compared to its direct competitors--lacks chat bubbles, barber shops, sitting in chairs, biographies, a good number of animated and voiced emotes, effective cross-faction chat support, and guild support.

 

The point is this: While none of these features are necessary to do what we do, they support roleplay and make the experience more enjoyable. Anything that can be done to keep me in the moment without having to worry about scrolling through chat windows or taking an extra moment to angle my character just right to use a sit emote that has him clipping halfway through a table should be considered a win.

 

Again, when those tools can be used by anyone regardless of their playstyle.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Dezzi

[Polyneux]

Woah woah woah. I've attacked nothing. The fact is, when it comes to features that other games have had earlier (and at launch), SWTOR is behind. It's not attacking anything to point that out.

 

And what's this about seasoned roleplayers who have worked with much less? Is that an appeal to authority? Experience?

 

I've been roleplaying for twelve years. I've done it all--table top, live action, MMO, single-player, storycraft, in-character blogging, instant messengers, and forum communities. Who cares what you or I have done when it doesn't change the fact that this game--when compared to its direct competitors--lacks chat bubbles, barber shops, sitting in chairs, biographies, a good number of animated and voiced emotes, effective cross-faction chat support, and guild support.

 

The point is this: While none of these features are necessary to do what we do, they support roleplay and make the experience more enjoyable. Anything that can be done to keep me in the moment without having to worry about scrolling through chat windows or taking an extra moment to angle my character just right to use a sit emote that has him clipping halfway through a table should be considered a win.

 

Again, when those tools can be used by anyone regardless of their playstyle.

 

What 'direct competitors' and what 'features' are do you mean?

 

And I was appealing to nothing, I have listed no credential nor invoked no names. In the grand scope of all your massive and detailed RP experience, character clipping should be the least of your worries.

 

I'm saying something is going on that we aren't hearing about if it's game over for you because your character clips through a seat. Something else is missing from your RP experience.

 

You will always be scrolling through chat windows. Chat Bubbles or not...unless you have a photographic memory.

 

What I'm saying is all these problems you're demanding fixes for are very minor, for a minor population, and will be used very little. I mean how many times in one scene do you sit down... once? I'd definitely set my sights higher and on things that actually get players together, custom instances etc. Chat and emotes should be on the bottom of the list.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Polyneux

[Dezzi]

What 'direct competitors' and what 'features' are do you mean?

 

And I was appealing to nothing, I have listed no credential nor invoked no names. In the grand scope of all your massive and detailed RP experience, character clipping should be the least of your worries.

 

You will always be scrolling through chat windows. Chat Bubbles or not...unless you have a photographic memory.

 

What I'm saying is all these problems you're demanding fixes for are very minor, for a minor population, and will be used very little. I mean how many times in one scene do you sit down... once? I'd definitely set my sights higher and on things that actually get players together, custom instances etc. Chat and emotes should be on the bottom of the list.

 

Listing competitors would open a can of worms that provides other posters an opportunity to label me as a fanboy or hater and serves no real purpose to the discussion. So with that disclaimer posted in advance, I will say that the most recent example of a direct competitor is Guild Wars 2, a game which provides all of these requested with the exception of sitting in chairs and a barber shop (though they're already entertaining suggestions about this). In fact, they added chat bubbles very recently (between the two beta weekends) in response to suggestions by roleplayers to do so. They also added a local and map-wide chat suggested by roleplayers who were looking to have their roleplay broadcast in a smaller area. The level of commitment and quick response time by ArenaNet to provide support for roleplayers is refreshing when I compare it to my experience in SWTOR with BioWare.

 

You brought up "seasoned roleplayers" as a clear appeal to authority in order to justify your opinion as being the right one. That's fine. Just don't be defensive when I do the same.

 

Yes, of course. But then are you arguing that chat bubbles wouldn't help alleviate the problem? The developers have stated their awareness of how helpful chat bubbles are to large scale roleplaying.

 

We completely disagree on what's important to roleplay then. Your preferences or my preferences, they're still just preferences.

 

You're basically using the "priority" argument that says some features and content are a priority over others--usually based on the population that can get use out of them--because the developers have limited resources in which to develop said features and content. Absolutely correct. However, to that end, you should know that your custom instances would be developed by a completely different team than the one that would be working on my chat bubbles, which would both be different than the team working on our emotes.

 

Six months later (longer if you were here for general testing) and we're still waiting on features--at least one of which we were told was prioritized "highly" and would be worked out following GUI customization (a feature which was completed two months ago).

Edited June 12, 2012 by Dezzi

[Sunstarr]

 

I guess I just don't understand why people would argue against the inclusion of new features--

 

No one is arguing against the inclusion.

 

Again, the broken record. There are more important things to be looked at right now than chat bubbles and chairs. Be patient, wait, and they will be included, just like everything else that is on the plate. 'nuf said.

[Dezzi]

No one is arguing against the inclusion.

 

Again, the broken record. There are more important things to be looked at right now than chat bubbles and chairs. Be patient, wait, and they will be included, just like everything else that is on the plate. 'nuf said.

 

And, again, my point is that I (and others) have waited. How much longer do we have to wait?

[Dibdabs]

We still don't have chat bubbles, the number 1 thing roleplayers have been asking for since waaaay before launch and it can't be done seemingly.

Excellent news.

[revial]

1.2 was pretty much all role play, and it showed with the sudden massive drop in populations across all servers 'cept Fatman and Covenant.

 

But, you'll still complain and complain about lack of chairs and chat bubbles.

 

Now, don't get me wrong. My personal thoughts on Legacy as a role play extension is that it's utterly worthless, but it doesn't change the fact that all those silly emotes and relationship charts had absolutely nothing to do with the spreadsheets and math crowd that normally has content updates catered to them.

 

I think, after watching the game bleed so many people immediately after 1.2, Bioware would have to be far denser than I ever thought possible for them to spend another update on roleplay fluff.

 

I play on a RP-PVP server, so it's not like I'm saying all this because I think RP is stupid, either.

 

Also, chat bubbles diminish frame rate, and it seems that the average player likely has all sorts of low FPS issues on the Fleet, so I don't see them coming anytime soon, unless they magically figure out why their engine sucks so much.

Edited June 12, 2012 by revial

[Dezzi]

1.2 was pretty much all role play, and it showed with the sudden massive drop in populations across all servers 'cept Fatman and Covenant.

 

But, you'll still complain and complain about lack of chairs and chat bubbles.

 

Now, don't get me wrong. My personal thoughts on Legacy as a role play extension is that it's utterly worthless, but it doesn't change the fact that all those silly emotes and relationship charts had absolutely nothing to do with the spreadsheets and math crowd that normally has content updates catered to them.

 

I think, after watching the game bleed so many people immediately after 1.2, Bioware would have to be far denser than I ever thought possible for them to spend another update on roleplay fluff.

 

I play on a RP-PVP server, so it's not like I'm saying all this because I think RP is stupid, either.

 

Also, chat bubbles diminish frame rate, and it seems that the average player likely has all sorts of low FPS issues on the Fleet, so I don't see them coming anytime soon, unless they magically figure out why their engine sucks so much.

 

Wait. What? You're blaming the failure of 1.2 on its roleplay features?

 

How about the lack of ranked warzones--a much more requested feature than anything I've asked for, but was pulled at the proverbial last minute? Or how about the fact that population decline had already started prior to 1.2, and that said decline compounded itself when people realized their servers were emptying? You also can't blame the poor implementation of the features that did make it (unsharable family tree that's incapable of multiple relationships per character) on the roleplayers.

 

None of the features brought to roleplayers with 1.2, with the exception of the emotes (which you still had to unlock anyway), were not features the roleplaying community asked for.

 

Chat bubbles only diminish framerate in this game, as you mentioned. It warrants repeating that such a simple feature was pulled because their choice of game engine--this by their own admission.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Dezzi

[MWidowmaker]

lets see.... spend resources so you can sit in chairs and have chat bubbles vs fixing bugs in the game and adding content that a larger base of people will enjoy than just the RPers (like new quests/fp/ops/wzs).... and you want them to concentrate on the former?

 

you really have misplaced priorities