BW why u hate us mercs?

[Bbizzle]

Merc/Com could use some love. They are by far the weakest AC.

 

Wrong.

 

The weakest AC in the game is DPS Scoundrel/Operative. If you disagree. Play one. Especially after 1.3 when you arent popping buffs to help burst.

[Superawesomerman]

Wrong.

 

The weakest AC in the game is DPS Scoundrel/Operative. If you disagree. Play one. Especially after 1.3 when you arent popping buffs to help burst.

 

Thats a spec, not an ac.

[cashogy]

Thats a spec, not an ac.

 

the "buff merc dps" crowd is complaining about a spec too. arsenal is built for PvE, not PvP. its as simple as that, and its not going to change

[Henu]

the "buff merc dps" crowd is complaining about a spec too. arsenal is built for PvE, not PvP. its as simple as that, and its not going to change

 

You cant say 1 spec is PVE or PVP they are made to be both.

[cashogy]

You cant say 1 spec is PVE or PVP they are made to be both.

 

Except theyre really not. Arsenal is 100% reliant on you being immobile to maximize your effectiveness. Pyrotech allows you to remain on the move when setting up your burst damage, which is a huge advantage over Arsenal. In PvP against remotely skilled players, being completely reliant on a single casted ability is really gimping yourself. Pyrotech can be effective using any of its abilities, while Arsenal is really only effective after using Tracer Missile multiple times.

 

Do I think the mechanics of Mercenary are flawed? Absolutely, and hopefully Bioware realizes this sooner rather than later and alters the skill tree to be less dependent on a single abiltiy.

 

But for PvP, Pyrotech is the way to go. All these "buff Merc DPS threads" really need to be changed to "Optimize the Arsenal skill tree", since that is the core of the issue in almost every single one of these posts

[Niil]

Pyrotech is NOT a DoT spec. Thermal Detonator, Rail Shot, Unload, and Power Shot are the majority of a Pyro Merc's damage. All those abilities are single target dps only. Pyrotech absolutely excels at single target burst damage. I can kill someone in 4 globals if the RNG gods smile upon me. I can run around just throwing DoTs on everyone I see, but I wont get any kills and my final damage will not be good at all.

 

You say Mercenary lacks the "kill worthy damage"? The pic I linked shows me doing 496k damage with 61 kills. That flat out contradicts what you want me to believe.

 

Arsenal is fine as well. I have switched back to arsenal briefly to test it out, and I was still able to put out effective single target damage. It lacks mobility though, which makes it far more suitable for PvE.

 

Sure, in pve. However in pvp your issues are exactly the same as arsenal, though it's *slightly* better in that you can do some damage while mobile. The meat of your dps is unusable while being attacked by a single melee. Kills in this game are not targets you get the kill shot on, it's any target that dies that you had any damage contribution towards. You're not going to kill anyone in 4 globals as a merc pyro. You need a dot up for rail shot refresh. That requires IM. Adding TD + RS in any order to the mix = 3. Powershot is your only other option to complete a 4 global kill claim which puts you at 4 globals. If you're lucky on an evenly geared opponent you're talking maybe 10k damage. And then you're done unless someone lets you hard cast to get rail shot resets. I've played a pyro merc in pvp. I've hit the 550k mark before. I hurt as long as people aren't looking at me. The moment someone does, my damage drops from scary to insignificant on a single target which is the exact same issue arsenal faces. But I can still run around while being chased throwing td, im, rs, and rapid out and do lots of damage that ultimately doesn't mean much. It's easily healed and/or dispelled and lacks the oomph to finish people.

[cashogy]

Sure, in pve. However in pvp your issues are exactly the same as arsenal, though it's *slightly* better in that you can do some damage while mobile. The meat of your dps is unusable while being attacked by a single melee. Kills in this game are not targets you get the kill shot on, it's any target that dies that you had any damage contribution towards. You're not going to kill anyone in 4 globals as a merc pyro. You need a dot up for rail shot refresh. That requires IM. Adding TD + RS in any order to the mix = 3. Powershot is your only other option to complete a 4 global kill claim which puts you at 4 globals. If you're lucky on an evenly geared opponent you're talking maybe 10k damage. And then you're done unless someone lets you hard cast to get rail shot resets. I've played a pyro merc in pvp. I've hit the 550k mark before. I hurt as long as people aren't looking at me. The moment someone does, my damage drops from scary to insignificant on a single target which is the exact same issue arsenal faces. But I can still run around while being chased throwing td, im, rs, and rapid out and do lots of damage that ultimately doesn't mean much. It's easily healed and/or dispelled and lacks the oomph to finish people.

 

yes, pyro still is reliant on casted abilities (power shot and unload). proc'ing rail shot resets is a large part of the spec's dps.

 

i have no problem doing damage while under fire from multiple opponents. do you people realize this is a team game? get some friends, and play with them. if youre not trying to put yourself in the best position to exceed, youre doing it wrong. find a healer friend, maybe a tank friend, and stop being a solo hero. your effectiveness is multiplied when grouped with competent players that complement your classes abilities.

 

i have no problem with melee opponents. i have a stun, knockback with a slow on it, a slow, and a root remover. plenty of tools to keep me out of range long enough to cast. and if i do get interrupted? i have other abilities i can use. sure, sometimes all ive got left is Rapid Shots, but with a Combustible Proc rapid shots can hit 1k+ damage, which isnt too shabby for an auto-attack ability.

 

the bottom line here is a learn to play issue. mercenary has the tools to be effective. if someone cant figure out how to use them effectively to perform well, that is a personal problem and not Bioware's responsibility to fix

[GrantyJPS]

http://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/redsoxfanatic08/?action=view&current=swtor2012-06-0118-29-55-68.png

 

merc dps is in a very good place right now

 

You won 3-2 in huttball despite all that amazing damage. How did you not romp that? No opposing leapers, just healers. Rateds wont look like that Im afraid.

[fungihoujo]

There's too much mobility, gap closing ability, CC and speed boosting for a class that has to stand still to do damage- even a ranged class- to have any place in the game. Either mobility and CC need to be decreased (which is a poor idea and would open up so many other problems), or, classes that are still need to have something to compensate- defensive CDs, short term interrupt/CC immunity, more abilities to create some space... or, what would make the most sense- the ability to move while casting.

 

Being a turret has worked in previous games... but in games where you can reasonably set up as a turret and dish out some hits. Being a turret relies on one thing in this game and one thing only- do enemies attack you. If a merc is left alone- as we saw early on when people were saying TM was so OP- they can top dps charts easily, because they can keep dealing damage unstopped. This also means, in low skill play, they can easily dominate poor players.

 

Problem is- with good players, they can't stay still- there's really nothing to let them facetank for long- which also means their healing/damage vanishes. This can be seen in the operative- which has some of the poorest actual healing ability compared to a merc or sorc... but due only to their mobility while healing, they vastly outperform the other two healing specs.

 

Take away the turrets; if you expect for these classes to have to stand still in order to deal any damage, but at the same time they can't stand still or they'll be decimated- you're only going to end up with a class that feels freaking awesome when people don't try to stick on you or lock you down.... but like garbage in any match where people know what they're doing.

[Niil]

yes, pyro still is reliant on casted abilities (power shot and unload). proc'ing rail shot resets is a large part of the spec's dps.

 

i have no problem doing damage while under fire from multiple opponents. do you people realize this is a team game? get some friends, and play with them. if youre not trying to put yourself in the best position to exceed, youre doing it wrong. find a healer friend, maybe a tank friend, and stop being a solo hero. your effectiveness is multiplied when grouped with competent players that complement your classes abilities.

 

i have no problem with melee opponents. i have a stun, knockback with a slow on it, a slow, and a root remover. plenty of tools to keep me out of range long enough to cast. and if i do get interrupted? i have other abilities i can use. sure, sometimes all ive got left is Rapid Shots, but with a Combustible Proc rapid shots can hit 1k+ damage, which isnt too shabby for an auto-attack ability.

 

the bottom line here is a learn to play issue. mercenary has the tools to be effective. if someone cant figure out how to use them effectively to perform well, that is a personal problem and not Bioware's responsibility to fix

 

Deflecting with a common sense statement isn't a response. Can you honestly tell me that you feel merc dps (both specs, presume they're spec'd for pvp and not for pve) have comparable kiting or control abilities as sniper or sorcerer dps specs? Obviously you're going to say mercs don't. Stating otherwise would just be irrational and factually incorrect. Any ranged dps spec can do lots of damage if left alone (for any reason, whether that's just being ignored by the opposing team or being protected by team members). Neither arsenal or pyro are top dog at damage dealing. We can pick through a massive amount of screenshots linked here that show large damage numbers by every dps oriented class. It doesn't prove anything except dps classes can dps. Mercs are not tougher to kill (raw defensive skills) than other ranged. They don't perform any special function that accounts for the lack of utilitarian abilities. Are they "broken" as a whole? Absolutely not. But objectively looking at the assortment of ranged dps options, I can't say that mercs are as valuable as either sniper or sorcerer dps (presuming they're played by the same person with comparable gear levels) on a team. They have gaping holes in gameplay that are not present in other AC's with nothing to offset it. If you're willing to accept the handicap and are okay with it, that's your prerogative, but that doesn't change the fact that if you played a sorcerer dps or a sniper you'd perform even better.

[cashogy]

Deflecting with a common sense statement isn't a response. Can you honestly tell me that you feel merc dps (both specs, presume they're spec'd for pvp and not for pve) have comparable kiting or control abilities as sniper or sorcerer dps specs? Obviously you're going to say mercs don't. Stating otherwise would just be irrational and factually incorrect. Any ranged dps spec can do lots of damage if left alone (for any reason, whether that's just being ignored by the opposing team or being protected by team members). Neither arsenal or pyro are top dog at damage dealing. We can pick through a massive amount of screenshots linked here that show large damage numbers by every dps oriented class. It doesn't prove anything except dps classes can dps. Mercs are not tougher to kill (raw defensive skills) than other ranged. They don't perform any special function that accounts for the lack of utilitarian abilities. Are they "broken" as a whole? Absolutely not. But objectively looking at the assortment of ranged dps options, I can't say that mercs are as valuable as either sniper or sorcerer dps (presuming they're played by the same person with comparable gear levels) on a team. They have gaping holes in gameplay that are not present in other AC's with nothing to offset it. If you're willing to accept the handicap and are okay with it, that's your prerogative, but that doesn't change the fact that if you played a sorcerer dps or a sniper you'd perform even better.

 

obviously mercs do not have the same kiting or control abilities as sniper or sorc. theyre different classes, with different strengths and weaknesses.

 

if you want to objectively look at solely ranged dps, that leaves sorceror and sniper as the only true comparisons to mercenary. powertech is not a true ranged, as a powertech has to be <10m to be at full effectiveness. personally, i would rank them sniper > merc > sorc. thats not based on any hard, factual evidence tho, just my experience of playing. id bet most people would probably agree with that assessment, however.

 

i do agree that damage numbers mean very little in the grand scheme of a warzone, and i do think had i rolled a sniper i would be doing that much better. but, im working the cards i dealt to myself, and i think im doing pretty well.

 

i view merc as kind of the scrappy runt of the litter. its easy for us to get pushed around by the bigger and stronger classes, but with a little bit of finesse and some creative tactics you can turn the tables. granted, that usually boils down to surrounding yourself with players who complement your abilities (read: tanks and healers).

 

what i would like to see for changes to merc, would be to increase the duration of the CGC snare to 4s, either change the unload slow talent to last 8s or to make unload uninterruptable, and add an interrupt. bioware's original logic in not giving mercenary the interrupt was the massive damage output. well in reality, mercenary is able to put out damage the same as any other class that does have an interrupt. i do have a feeling that merc will get an interrupt with the new abilities coming with more levels, but i would prefer to see it happen much sooner.

 

mercenary does not need an offensive buff though, as a lot of people on these forums would have you believe. we're lacking a bit of utility, thats all.

[sauerkraut]

Why :

- we still not get any buff to survivability in pvp ?

- u still refuse to give us INTERRUPT ability? ( i never saw class in any mmo i played that is lack of simple ability to interrupt on short cd LOL!!)

- heavy armor is useless?

- we lack of any ability that is unique for class, who want an underpowered merc in rated WZ if many other classes a better

- u try to "buff" our damage when we dont need any damage buff to be honest

- our "mobile" dps tree req a chain/cast ability to get % from talent ? arsenal is a turret, pyro is a half turret, when we kite and we must kite alot thx to you dear BW devs cos of OP melee our damage is laughable

 

Really its not a QQ topic, its last call of frustrated player who love play dps merc, who like pvp, i dont want reroll fotm warrior or assasin, i bouth this game to play merc, i always liked Bobba Fett in movies, its cool to be merc, well was cool, BW open your eyes, use brain and look at this poor overnerfed class, we almost extinct in pvp, how many dps merc u can spot? almost none, this is a clear signal that something go in wrong direction.....i really donmt want unsub......

 

p.s.

sorry for my bad english

 

Roll some male class and you'll see how OP are you already.

[Niil]

obviously mercs do not have the same kiting or control abilities as sniper or sorc. theyre different classes, with different strengths and weaknesses.

 

if you want to objectively look at solely ranged dps, that leaves sorceror and sniper as the only true comparisons to mercenary. powertech is not a true ranged, as a powertech has to be <10m to be at full effectiveness. personally, i would rank them sniper > merc > sorc. thats not based on any hard, factual evidence tho, just my experience of playing. id bet most people would probably agree with that assessment, however.

 

i do agree that damage numbers mean very little in the grand scheme of a warzone, and i do think had i rolled a sniper i would be doing that much better. but, im working the cards i dealt to myself, and i think im doing pretty well.

 

i view merc as kind of the scrappy runt of the litter. its easy for us to get pushed around by the bigger and stronger classes, but with a little bit of finesse and some creative tactics you can turn the tables. granted, that usually boils down to surrounding yourself with players who complement your abilities (read: tanks and healers).

 

what i would like to see for changes to merc, would be to increase the duration of the CGC snare to 4s, either change the unload slow talent to last 8s or to make unload uninterruptable, and add an interrupt. bioware's original logic in not giving mercenary the interrupt was the massive damage output. well in reality, mercenary is able to put out damage the same as any other class that does have an interrupt. i do have a feeling that merc will get an interrupt with the new abilities coming with more levels, but i would prefer to see it happen much sooner.

 

mercenary does not need an offensive buff though, as a lot of people on these forums would have you believe. we're lacking a bit of utility, thats all.

 

I didn't say the same, and I absolutely don't want to be clones of other classes. I want the necessary tools to do my job at least on a comparable level as the other ranged dps. I would prefer they be interesting and unique tools that complement the BH playstyle and theme. I do agree with the rest of the sentiment of your post though. Unfortunately you and I have different tolerance levels. I'm not content to sit and wait for fixes at this point. I'm not interested in playing at a handicap. There's a level of imbalance that I can accept and I'm totally willing to admit that this is a subjective discussion, for the most part. But it's beyond a point where I can look at this topic and say that I feel there is parity here even if I disagree with the way it's implemented. There's just not parity. I applaud the fact that you're willing to play a class that isn't doing so well in the overall and both have fun doing it and do it well. That's very kewl and I respect that.

 

Edit: As far as changes, 4 second CGC would be excellent. I'd still prefer a guaranteed method to proc CGC though, akin to powertechs. As far as damage, I think we're in the ballpark but lower than others. That's not necessarily a bad thing, as long as there's a balance point (i.e. we give up a slight bit of damage for a slight bit of defensive ability). Some would argue heavy armor is that balance point. I'm okay with that. What we need is a way to consistently keep the pressure on when a melee is in our face or we need the tools to actually effectively kite. In my book that's non-negotiable. It's sorta like operatives and mercs were designed first (their kiting, anti-kiting, and control tools), then they built the rest of the classes later and did so at an entirely different balance point.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Niil

[Osskscosco]

Roll some male class and you'll see how OP are you already.

 

Are there female classes?

[DarkSideTOR]

A DPS merc with stacked alacrity can destroy anything pretty fast. Try to have a team who will heal and protect you and stay at 30m.

 

Heatseeker critting 5k and unload critting 2k+ per second is everything but bad. While you can crit heal for 3k+ anytime and cure most of the dots.

 

Stupid post by someone who obviously has not played a dps Commando at 50, just going by hear say. Stack alacrity and you can destroy anything? really? thanks Sherlock, now do you mind telling me what I'm going to do after I run out of ammo from casting all my abilities a lot faster THEN having my target still alive because I gimped my damage by stacking alacrity instead of surge or crit or power?

 

I bet you those players who you say crit for 5k (maybe before 1.2) are not stacking alacrity or they'd never hit anywhere near that. Have you tried healing as dps spec in PVP? yes if you get a crit heal you might land a 3k heal but that's it. You'd run out of ammo so fast if you try to land 2-3. That's IF you're left alone.

 

If you expect to sit there casting heals on yourself while fighting say a Shadow or Mara... lol good luck. You'd have to have some points into the CM tree to reduce pushback on your heals and even if you did, you'd still be vulnerable to interrupts. Now if you're putting points into CM and the rest on Assault? lawl I would love to fight you on the battlefield as I'm sure all your opponents would.

 

I love how players with little to no experience come here to offer advice.

[DarkSideTOR]

Roll some male class and you'll see how OP are you already.

 

Are you seriously calling Mercs/Commandos OP? and this from a melee class? hehe. Maybe if you're going up against a lvl 49 Commando with your level 11 Sentinel. Just maybe.

[warultima]

Our merc healer is one of the best PvP healers on server warranted that hes no where as invincible as good operative healers but definitely way more "useable" compare to sorc healers while under pressure.

 

Arsenal dps merc is very rare on my server nowdays. But I see good pyro mercs still blowing people up FAST.

 

I guess merc/mandos will never be happy unless BW give them their 4k tracer/grav SPAMMMMSKILL back, as well as multi-stacking debuff on their victim.

 

Not saying mercs/commandos dont need some help but then again pyrotech is still very viable.

[Stickeater]

Healing specs okay, and I wouldn't call pyro very viable but most mercs don't want more dmg its okay. Most mercs just want a little more utilty

[Osskscosco]

Stupid post by someone who obviously has not played a dps Commando at 50, just going by hear say. Stack alacrity and you can destroy anything? really? thanks Sherlock, now do you mind telling me what I'm going to do after I run out of ammo from casting all my abilities a lot faster THEN having my target still alive because I gimped my damage by stacking alacrity instead of surge or crit or power?

 

I bet you those players who you say crit for 5k (maybe before 1.2) are not stacking alacrity or they'd never hit anywhere near that. Have you tried healing as dps spec in PVP? yes if you get a crit heal you might land a 3k heal but that's it. You'd run out of ammo so fast if you try to land 2-3. That's IF you're left alone.

 

If you expect to sit there casting heals on yourself while fighting say a Shadow or Mara... lol good luck. You'd have to have some points into the CM tree to reduce pushback on your heals and even if you did, you'd still be vulnerable to interrupts. Now if you're putting points into CM and the rest on Assault? lawl I would love to fight you on the battlefield as I'm sure all your opponents would.

 

I love how players with little to no experience come here to offer advice.

You are so stupid that even i cant believe it.

 

Try not to be forever alone and queue with a pre made, that will solve your problem with marauders. Then stop targeting the tank and maybe you can kill somebody without running out of heat? Woah, thats some rocket science right there. Not to mention that you can vent 66 heat and have thermal sensor override and crits vent heat too.

 

Oh btw, eliminator set gives accuracy + whatever, good luck with accuracy as arsenal merc.

[cashogy]

You are so stupid that even i cant believe it.

 

Try not to be forever alone and queue with a pre made, that will solve your problem with marauders. Then stop targeting the tank and maybe you can kill somebody without running out of heat? Woah, thats some rocket science right there. Not to mention that you can vent 66 heat and have thermal sensor override and crits vent heat too.

 

Oh btw, eliminator set gives accuracy + whatever, good luck with accuracy as arsenal merc.

 

alacrity is like accuracy. both have no place in a Mercs stats. you have to give up too much offensive capability to get any kind of worthwhile return from either.